Episode 130: Mike Ward – The Power of Urgency

Urgency drives sales. People who prioritize urgency are therefore able to keep up with the fast-paced nature of sales by working proactively and making decisions decisively; key distinguishers between those who survive and those who thrive.  

In this episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers, Mike Ward, now a Director of Business Analytics at LiveIntent, discusses how the principle of urgency has shaped his work ethic, while also sharing the value of taking pride in your work and reflecting on his transition from sales into his present role in analytics. 

Guest-At-A-Glance

💡 Name: Mike Ward 

💡What they do: Director of Business Analytics

💡Company: LiveIntent

💡Noteworthy: Transitioned from sales to analytics, emphasizing the importance of urgency in business.

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

The Power of Urgency in Business

Mike Ward emphasizes the importance of urgency in business, a concept he credits to his mentor, Jason Schneider. He discusses how this principle has shaped his approach to work, particularly in the fast-paced world of tech sales. Urgency, according to Ward, is a quality that is often lacking but is crucial for success. This insight underscores the need for a proactive mindset and the ability to act quickly and decisively in business.

The Intersection of Sales and Analytics

Ward shares his unique journey from sales to analytics. He talks about how his sales background provided him with a business-oriented perspective when setting up reports and analytics. This allowed him to go above and beyond what was expected, improving areas that were previously lackluster. His story highlights the value of cross-disciplinary skills and the potential for sales professionals to transition into different roles within the tech industry.

The Importance of Pride in Work

While discussing his first hire, Ward emphasizes the importance of taking pride in one’s work. He notes that the standout candidate, Haris Ali, demonstrated care and pride in his work, which set him apart from other candidates. This insight serves as a reminder of the value of professionalism, attention to detail, and the importance of presenting oneself effectively in the professional world.

Episode Highlights

The Energy of New York City 

In the opening discussion, Mike Ward and the hosts compare the energy of New York City to San Francisco. Ward praises the resilience of New York City, stating that it’s been bustling for years, despite people’s tendency to criticize coastal cities. He contrasts this with his experience in San Francisco, which he found a bit depressing. 

“New York’s been popping for years. San Francisco, I was there for a couple days last year, and it was a little depressing.”

The Importance of Working with Brands 

Ward discusses his experience working with brands at Resonate, a software company. He found the experience rewarding and interesting, particularly because he was working with well-known companies rather than government contractors. This part of the conversation highlights the appeal of working with recognizable brands in the tech industry.

“What I really loved about — and this is part of Jason’s pitch to get me to join — was that you’re working with brands, not like some government contractors or something like that.”

The Value of Cross-Disciplinary Skills 

Ward talks about the value of having a diverse skill set in the business world. He discusses how his background in sales and exposure to different functions like customer success have been beneficial in his current role. This conversation underscores the importance of cross-disciplinary skills in the tech industry.

“But yeah, I just got exposure to things like customer success and that kind of function that’s, like, distinct from sales.”

Transition from College to Work 

Ward shares his journey from college to work, discussing how he considered various paths, including grad school and think tank jobs. He also shares his first exposure to sales through a door-to-door sales job in high school. This part of the conversation provides insight into Ward’s career trajectory and the decisions that led him to his current role.

“Ryan and I worked a sales job together in high school, like door-to-door, like roofing and siding stuff. Okay. And that was my first exposure to sales. That’s hardcore sales right there.”

Transcript:

Marc Gonyea: [00:00:00] Mike Ward, how you doing? 

Mike Ward: I’m doing good, mark. It’s good to be with you guys. It’s been a long time. The 

Chris Corcoran: pride of the little city. 

Mike Ward: The little city. There we go. I’m actually not a big fan of that. Uh, that nickname, uh, that kind of, uh, came about I think when I was like, I was an adult when that, when the city decided to start putting those signs up everywhere.

Yeah. And, uh, I think a lot of people in Falls Church were like, nah, that’s kind of lame. But, um, but no, it’s, it’s cool. I love, uh, nothing below for Falls. Church. Falls. City, city proper. Thank you for the clarification. For those who don’t know, 

Marc Gonyea: they’re doing a lot of lame things in the City Falls Church, but we’ll leave that for another.

Um, but that, that little city thing I didn’t even know about. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not surprised. Same 

Mike Ward: people. You’ll probably, same people, you’ll probably notice it if you drive around there. Really, now that we’ve talked about it, they got signs up, 

Marc Gonyea: all sorts of things. Okay. 

Chris Corcoran: So just Mike, [00:01:00] he’s, he’s from Vienna. And guys from Vienna.

Don’t go to Falls Church. 

Mike Ward: This is true. Yeah. Yeah. 

Marc Gonyea: Why would I ever need to? I don’t need to go, I’m not going inside the beltway for anything unless 

Mike Ward: I’m going to DC. Vienna’s great. Um, yeah, no need, no need to leave Vienna. There you go. 

Marc Gonyea: If you don’t have to. All right. No need to leave false church. There you go.

I like it. Oh, there’s lots of reasons. Okay. But, but let’s get going. Um, Mike, so we’re in New York City, which we’re gonna talk about that. This place is amazing and it took a little lap during lunch break and I was in San Francisco two weeks ago. New York City’s like as this, as if it never 

Mike Ward: left. Yeah, I mean, it’s been like this for a while now.

Um, I remember when people that the whole New York City’s dead kind of thing, uh, people, that was kind of like a trendy thing for people to say for a while. Yeah. And like people just love to like dunk on New York and SF and, like, people just like to kind of shit on the, these, uh, coastal cities and whatnot.

Yeah. But no New York’s been popping [00:02:00] for years. That’s 

Marc Gonyea: great. San Francisco, I dunno, that’s another story for another day too. It’s not nearly as busy, so, but we’ll get to that 

Mike Ward: too. Yeah. Yeah. San Francisco, I was there for a couple days last year and it was, it was like a little depressing. Yeah. Um, but I love San Francisco too, but yeah, definitely nothing like the energy you get.

No way. No 

Marc Gonyea: way. Not even close. All right. So let’s take some of the energy we’ll put into the session. Right. Love it. So tell, tell Chris you already let a little bit, count on the back. Tell Chris and myself and the listeners, where are you from, where were you were raised, what you like as a kid, that sort of thing.

Mike Ward: Yeah. So I’m, uh, like we were joking about, I’m from the city of Falls Church, Virginia. Um, was born there. Uh, I moved away in, uh, in middle school or like fourth grade out west to Haymarket, Virginia. Okay. Uh, people probably don’t know, not as many people probably know Haymarket, but what’s the nickname for Haymarket?

Corcoran? Not, they don’t have one yet. Suburbia, yeah, suburbia. Far, far away City. Yeah. Yeah. Lives in like a, like gated community out there for a couple years. Um, and then my parents [00:03:00] got divorced and moved back to Falls Church. Okay. Um, which I was so thankful for. Like, I kept, I kept in touch with a lot of my good friends there, many of whom I’m still really tight with today.

That’s great. Um, so it was like a really easy transition back. Um, and, uh, yeah. Uh, you know, in high school, uh, played baseball year round. Uh, played some, played in the golf team, uh, towards the end there. Um, and, uh, and yeah. Question 

Marc Gonyea: when you were at Mike Warden High School, What’d you think you wanted to be when you grew 

Mike Ward: up?

Uh, honestly, I kind of what I do now. Um, okay. Really? Uh, okay. I wasn’t quite sure. Um, but I knew I wanted to do something like math based. Okay. Um, but I wasn’t exactly sure what I knew I wanted to do something. Like I there was a, our school had an IB program. Mm-hmm. International Baccalaureate.

Um, it was a big like, reason people would move to Falls Church, so their kids [00:04:00] could, uh, be enrolled in that program. There’s gotta be some 

Marc Gonyea: reason to live there. 

Mike Ward: That’s joking. No, I mean, it’s, uh, it’s an expensive but Yeah. Um, but there was an IB business management class.

And I remember really wanting to take that and, uh, you didn’t have to be in the IB program and take an IB class. I did not like get the IB diploma or any of that. Um, but taking that, I kind of knew I wanted to do something on it in the business world that was kind of math driven. Uh, I didn’t really know.

I wanted to go into like, kind of like the engineering side of things. Yeah. Uh, but, um, but now I can’t imagine doing anything else. Excellent. 

Chris Corcoran: He, he’s, he’s what they refer to in the industry as a quant, 

Mike Ward: that’s more of like a, a finance term. 

Marc Gonyea: Mike, you please 

Mike Ward: correct Chris. No, I mean it’s, cause we know you are, Chris thinks you’re a quant.

No, I mean it’s, it’s funny you say that ’cause that probably is kind of what I wanted to, like what I thought of at the time was a quant. [00:05:00] Um, but yeah, there’s a lot of them. There’s a lot of them running around here. Yeah. Um, but that’s. It’s, uh, that term’s kind of reserve in my, in my, uh, from my vantage point for like kind of Wall Street firms and, um, just banks in general.

Anything in finance really. Finance bros. Lots of bros or quants, electronic trading. Yeah, I’m sure. I’m sure. Uh, there’s some lady, lady quants out there too. Oh yes. I haven’t met any, but, um, I’m, I’m sure they are lady quants. 

Marc Gonyea: Okay, so you, what’d you major when you went to college? And so where’d you go? What’d you major in?

Mike Ward: Yeah, so I went to Drexel University initially and um, uh, Frank, it, it’s not a cheap place to go. And uh, frankly, I was partying a little too much in college and wasn’t getting the grades that justified the cost. So I decided to leave. Yeah. Best decision I ever made in my life. Bar none. Uh, you and Malik Rose?

I don’t think I know Malik. Nah, he’s 

Marc Gonyea: a basketball player’s. Alright. Just me throwing out crazy 

Mike Ward: [00:06:00] basketball shit. Drexel, uh, Drexel had a decent team, uh, here and there. Yeah. Um, when I was there they weren’t very good, but, um, but yeah, so went to Drexel. Initially I was majoring in civil engineering there.

Okay. Um, so kind of a departure from like businessy, uh, stuff. Um, but then I transferred to V C U and then, I don’t know when exactly this happened, but I knew I wanted to major in economics. That’s cool. Um, like I just knew without, like a shred of a doubt was the easiest decision I ever made. Um, and, uh, yeah.

Graduated from V C U in 2014. Um, and then, uh, a couple months later I was with you guys. 

Marc Gonyea: So what did you think you were gonna do getting out of VCU with that econ 

Mike Ward: degree? So initially I was, yeah, initially I was, uh, applying to, I was considering grad school, like going straight into like a master’s program for like either statistics or, um, or, or may even an econ kind of masters or some sort [00:07:00] of Quant master.

Did, did, uh, did get that. Um, got, got, got my act together a little bit more towards the later end of college freshman year. Kind of got, uh, the best of me. I’m still working on my kumala status. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I wasn’t, I wasn’t quite sure then I was kind of like, oh, maybe, uh, I’ll apply to some like, think tank type jobs, like, just like analyst stuff basically.

And, um, none of that was, uh, was panning out at the moment and I, uh, was at a bar with Ryan Cooper. Cooper Coop. Shout out. Shout out to Ryan Cooper. Falls Church City 

Chris Corcoran: Represent. 

Marc Gonyea: Yes. He’s like original. I feel like 

Mike Ward: he’s just like the heart of Falls Church. Yeah. He’s, he’s OG Falls Church and OG memory blue.

Okay. Yes, no doubt. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I was at a bar with him and he, and we were kind of like talking, catching up and he was saying, uh, I think he, he was already hired out by Smart Logic mm-hmm. At this point. But he was basically like, Hey, like you could get in. He was like, I think you, we, okay, so I should back up.

[00:08:00] Ryan and I worked a sales job together in high school, like door to door, like roofing and siding stuff. Okay. And that was my first exposure. Sales. That’s hardcore sales right there. Yeah, it is. You’re kind of playing with house money a bit in this, ’cause Uh, we would go to places which our damaged by hail.

Yep. And so it’s all homeowner’s insurance money. And the, the pitch was basically to get them to agree to an inspection. To evaluate whether or not the damage was sufficient enough to have their insurance cover it. And at which point it’s kind of like, okay, like your insurance is gonna replace your siding and whatnot, so why wouldn’t you?

Yeah, exactly. We’ll do it. So like, sometimes it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Um, and other times the well got pretty dry, um, in terms of like neighborhoods and like, I mean, you, it’s like your guys’ neighborhoods, like Vienna or Ashburn, stuff like that. Um, so definitely like a tough crowd a lot of time.

Yeah. And I was definitely not the best at, it wasn’t the worst, but I wasn’t, I certainly wasn’t the best. What’d you learn in that 

Marc Gonyea: job? You learn a lot on door to 

Mike Ward: door. Oh yeah. I mean, I mean, getting [00:09:00] a door slammed your face is a lot worse than getting hung up on, uh, um, into the barking dogs. Like wild man.

Yeah. Now people are getting shot for ringing doorbells. Yeah, like it’s, I mean, it, it’ll teach you a lot, but, um, But Ryan and I worked there together at one point, uh, at the, for the same company. Um, and we had known each other, like vaguely through, uh, through high school, weren’t like super close, but, uh, got closer working together.

So we kind of knew, I like had a, uh, like, I guess potential in terms of like selling and, and whatnot. And he knew I was interested in technology and he was like, why don’t you like get like, uh, let me put you on with, uh, or like, try and put you on with, uh, the company that got me started. And like, you can get, uh, you know, put your sales skills to work and you, you basically like, you know, there’s a lot of upside in in the tech sales world.

Like you should give it a shot. Like you got the personality for it. And I was like, all right. Yeah. Like, uh, that’s not like, let’s do this. And then I interviewed with, uh, Nick DeLeon. I’m gonna try and drop his Nick. Nick [00:10:00] D Nick. 

Marc Gonyea: D Nick. 

Mike Ward: Nick D’Aleandro. Yep. And I’m gonna try and drop as many names as I can. 

Marc Gonyea: Do it.

Drop ’em all. Nick D. Drop ’em like they’re hot. 

Mike Ward: Um, yeah, I interviewed with him. I remember I, and I think he was, he got hired out like very quickly after I, uh, interviewed with him. He’s a talented guy, that guy. Um uh, you know, I was like, uh, kind of had like the fire in my belly, like, yeah, let’s do this.

Yeah. Yeah, rest is history. I guess. 

Marc Gonyea: What do you remember, because, so your pops was a cpa? Yep. Right. And I dunno if your mom worked or was she in sales, but you were the first. She 

Mike Ward: was, she was a lawyer. Okay. Before I was born. Okay. And then once I was born, basically, I think she did, she like stayed in legal work for like a year or two and then just like Okay.

Uh, completely was like full-time mom for about like 10 years. And then once, uh, you know, my youngest brothers were a little older. She went back [00:11:00] into work, but as a special ed 

Marc Gonyea: teacher. Got it. Okay. Yeah. So wasn’t any sales going through the house? No. 

Mike Ward: The houses, no. No. Right. Um, No, I had a good family friend.

Um, honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if you guys know, uh, know this guy John Trout, but, um, he was the first, he was like a, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t go so far to say like an uncle, but like a close family friend. Yep. And he, and he, you know, killed it in like the, the DC kind of, uh, tech sales world. Yep. Selling into the public sector and whatnot.

Okay. So in terms of like adult figures in my life who were, uh, involved in, in sales, he, he was like the only one 

Marc Gonyea: basically. So you got into memoryBlue lo and behold Cooper, right. Coop. And what was it like, what do you remember doing that? Because how is it different than going door to door? 

Mike Ward: Oh, I mean, um, You know, there’s a lot, there’s, uh, a lot.

I mean, you’re talking, I mean, it’s a completely different pitch, right? You’re going to businesses and as opposed to [00:12:00] homeowners, so like the incentive structure’s completely different. Um, but listen to 

Chris Corcoran: the Economist, the incentive structure. Analyzing the incentive structure. Yeah. You putting the degree to work.

Yeah, good point. VCU should 

Mike Ward: proud. I’ll try and make ’em, I guess. Um, but yeah, I mean it’s uh, like obviously a lot of the, you know, uh, tactics and things like that are translate to both, but, um, yeah, you’re just, it’s a completely different sell, like you’re pitching business value as opposed to like, let’s like improve your, you know, gas bill and, uh, make your, your property value go up.

Like very different piece some people are really engaged with their work and their results and so other people just don’t really give a shit as much. Um, so, uh, who was your DM. Uh, Lee Horton was my dm. Lee Ryan. Lee Ryan. Was he Ryan? What did she, 

Marc Gonyea: maybe she got married, but Lee Ryan was your DM. Yeah. Lee Ryan. [00:13:00] Who 

Mike Ward: else was under your squad with you?

Uh, great Question. Matt Miller. And, uh, okay. Uh, yeah. So I guess we could, we could, uh, should we go through like my client’s phase? 

Marc Gonyea: Well, I, I can, you know, we’d like to go back in time and see who you, um, Who you worked with. Yeah. It’s also Yeah, 

Mike Ward: we’ll, we’ll get, we’ll get ’em all, well, I, I spanned a couple different clients, but my by far, uh, aside from, I mean obviously Resonate, um Yep.

Was my, uh, you know, definitionally most like successful one, but Smart Logic was the one I was on by far the longest. I think I was on them for like a solid 10 months or Wow. 11 months or something. And that was largely because of Coop actually, cuz he got hired out by Smart Logic. Yep. And um, my first client, I forget it was RingDNA.

I dunno if you guys remember, oh, I remember 

Marc Gonyea: Ring 

Mike Ward: DNA with Howard. Howard, yeah. Yes. Howard Brown. Yes. Um, I forget who was my, I don’t think Lee was my Okay. Delivery manager. [00:14:00] No. Yes, she was. Yes she was. Um, but that was the first client and then, uh, smart Logic was like the majority of my time there. Um, and that was definitely Lee.

I remember Lee was very involved in, uh, in Smart Logic’s success, and I like really appreciated that. And Ryan Cooper, um, being like on the client side, um, was pretty instrumental in like helping me get ramped up and understand the, understand the product and, and whatnot. What, what 

Marc Gonyea: do you remember learning in that role when you, when you know, you had done the door to door, now you’re doing the stuff on the phone, different incentive structure.

What did you, what do you remember kind of figuring out? 

Mike Ward: Oh man, I mean, God so much. Like, I think, I think what I, what I learned the most and what I think is insanely valuable in like any aspect of life is how to kind of, um, learn how to read people quickly and react really quickly mm-hmm. As well. And kind of like meet.

Meet them where they’re at. Mm-hmm. You have to do it, uh, door to door, but door to door. [00:15:00] Like when you’re in person, like facing somebody, you can use body language and kind of like be, become endearing like in other ways through just literally what you’re saying. Yep. But, uh, on the phones it’s literally just all your voice and like tone matching, you know, uh, asking the right questions like quickly and like in the really opportune time.

Yep. Um, obviously like getting the permission, uh, upfront, like all that stuff. Um, I’d say like, I’d say those are probably the main things I learned in that role that, um, that they still sick with me to this day. In like what, did you get different ways? What did you 

Marc Gonyea: get good at? 

Mike Ward: Uh, as an SDR? Yep. To be honest, I don’t think, I mean, I’ll let you guys be the decider.

I didn’t think I was particularly good. Um, I didn’t think I was bad either, but I thought it was, um, I thought I was really good at the rapport building side of things. Um, but I was bad at like the initial, like once I had [00:16:00] established the rapport, I was really good and I like had a high close rate. But getting that initial, um, uh, permission to like actually like deliver a pitch and whatnot, I thought I was not particularly good at.

But the part I definitely got good at was kind of learning how to like, okay, like now we’re, this is a conversation. Like I know how to kind of like work it from here. Um, that was, I think like what I was best at. That’s 

Marc Gonyea: great. So in your primary clients were smart logic and resonate. Yep. Right. You know, resonate.

You were with, you said Matt Crush. 

Mike Ward: Matt Crush, and then who, who else? Uh, it was just me, Matt at first. Right. Uh, I wanna say there was a third person. Steve? No, Steve. Steve Garner. Shout out Steve Garner. I was never on the uh, okay. Uh, I was never on the same client as Steve. Um, man, who was, I remember Matt Miller was our delivery manager.

Okay. So Matt 

Marc Gonyea: became our delivery manager 

Mike Ward: at some point. Um, [00:17:00] yeah, I think, I know there was a third person on the resume account. I can’t remember if they like cut it down to two really quickly or what. Um, no 

Marc Gonyea: big deal. But you, I mean, you’re working with Crush is good. Yeah. Right. So when you’re in the same campaign you’re working with Cooper, I mean, he was the client, but you learned from him.

Mm-hmm. You learnt as much from the people who you worked with? That’s like doing it on your own, right. Crush is good with the job. Oh yeah. He’s want to incorporate his favorite all time hires. 

Mike Ward: Yeah. I mean he’s, uh, yeah. Crush is a good friend of mine. I was talking to him like two days ago. Oh, that’s great.

Um, about this. I know. He is the first, he was the first episode, right? Yeah. Yeah. Episode one, 

Chris Corcoran: episode. It’s the new beginning. 

Mike Ward: Yeah. So, um, yeah. Crush is a, uh, great, great friend of mine. We worked, uh, You know, we met at Memory Blue. Yep. Um, and then, uh, we got hired out together. That’s great. He, he was pick number one.

I was pick number two. It was a package deal though. Yeah. It, it was funny. I mean, we, we’ll get into this more, but at Resonate it literally was like Matt and Mike like package deal. Like [00:18:00] there was never like, like we were working together all the time, always like eating lunch together, you know, all. And so it was just kind of like a, like a running joke of like the package deal aspect.

Chris Corcoran: How does he feel about being Robin in that, in that, uh, pair 

Mike Ward: from Jason’s perspective? He was probably Batman, but, yeah. Hey, he, he’s definitely Batman now. He is still at Resonate, killing it. Yeah. Um, he’s uh, he’s doing good stuff over there. Yeah, for sure. For sure. 

Marc Gonyea: Oh, alright. So you worked with Memory Blue did, did your thing.

He worked at the company before he had tops. Right. What, what’s tops. We have an incentive trip. So you guys would’ve gone on it ’cause you guys were strong. We had like a club trip and we you missed that. That would’ve been awesome to get you and, and your boy Crush on there, but you know. Yeah. It would’ve been fun.

Mike Ward: Where, where are people going? We go to Mexico. 

Marc Gonyea: Oh hell yeah. Typically. Yeah. It’s a fun, it’s a fun time and you get to kind of huddle [00:19:00] with all the other strong SDRs. 

Mike Ward: Hey, if you wanna send me a crush there anyways, uh, after the fact. Yeah. 

Marc Gonyea: You guys gonna come back and dial for us first? Fair enough, fair enough.

So what’d you, what did you like about that time? So you were with us for a year and three months, uh, Jason Snyder resonate. Mm-hmm. Decided to convert you guys. Yep. When you look back on that memoryBlue time, what do you remember the most? 

Mike Ward: Uh, the camaraderie of like, being in the office to everybody.

I mean, um, you know, a lot of people I like that I’ve spoken about today are like, I consider good friends, like, to this day, um, and just kind of like, you know, hearing it how everyone else works, uh, kind of like bouncing ideas off each other. Um, just like the, uh, yeah, the, the camaraderie I think is my, what I remember the most about, like, uh, the experience like every day, like, you know, everyone’s kind of like relatively the same age for the most part.

Mm-hmm. A lot of like post-college. Um, so it’s just like a, there’s just like a good vibe [00:20:00] around, like people are kind like energy levels are good. That was the — like I felt, I haven’t felt that sense of camaraderie, I don’t think in the professional world ever since. 

Chris Corcoran: Um, so it’s important for the listeners to understand.

Mike worked at our office, Boone Boulevard Boone. Yep. Which for your, for the listeners picture, the worst office you’ve ever imagined. Yeah. And that’s better than where they worked. However, the people who worked outta that office loved it. Mm-hmm. They loved it because of that esprit de corps, camaraderie, you guys just really had something magical going tonight 

Mike Ward: in that.

Yeah. You know, we had music going like, you know, it was hot. It was cold. Yeah, it was, uh, it was, it was crowded. Yeah. Like, I mean, I changed desk probably like 10 times, but, uh, I had like, my favorite was the window desk when I started. I 

Marc Gonyea: remember you sitting in, Chris doesn’t know this cause [00:21:00] he never went over to that office, but like, too good for that office.

I remember. I remember walking in. You are on the right side. Yeah. Right. Like you walk in. Well, there 

Mike Ward: was the middle, there was the middle desks. Yep. And then the, the walls. And you were on the wall. And I was on, yeah. Up against the glass. The window. Yeah. Always on the phone. Uh, maybe not as much as, uh, I should have been, but, um, enough, uh, more than enough.

Got, 

 Got, I got, yeah, that’s it. 

Marc Gonyea: Jose. We were trying to break in the corporate market 

Chris Corcoran: the best, the best part about that office. Yes, sir. Mark and Chris never came over here. 

Mike Ward: I, I remember Mark would come through every, every so often. Yeah. I come 

Marc Gonyea: through. Don’t try to mock me into that. Never went over there.

Didn’t even know where it was. 

Mike Ward: Get lost. Trying to find it. That’s 

Marc Gonyea: right. California more than in that office. All right, so you got the camaraderie. What do you remember? All right, let’s, cause we wanna get to what you’re doing now cause I know people want hear about that and so do Chris and I. What, what’d you think you wanted to do [00:22:00] when you’re, so you at memoryBlue, doing your SDR thing, and that’s kinda all you know, right?

Because we don’t. We were smaller than now. We have other jobs internally and we have a more formal outplacement program. But, but even then, we’re not talking to you about going into analytics. Mm-hmm. We’re talking to you about going into sales and totally Resonate converted you. They weren’t bringing you over to do what you’re doing now.

Mm-hmm. They wanted you to come over there and work the phones, work, LinkedIn work, email. So, where’d you think you were gonna go? Uh, you still, like, were you still all in on a sales thing or you kind of like, Hey, 

Mike Ward: no, I kind of always knew I wanted to do something kind of like what I do now. Um, but I definitely, but I enjoyed, uh, work as in, I enjoyed the work in sales, uh, as well.

It wasn’t like I was like against it or anything. Yeah. Um, but I kind of always knew like that I was gonna do, uh, like basically like what I do now. Um, and I thought Resonate was a really cool company. Uh, really, I really, uh, liked Jason. Um, And, uh, and still do. Jason, you gotta hit the bell [00:23:00] for that guy.

Yeah, Jason. He’s 

Marc Gonyea: not a lawn, you know, New York style up here, 

Mike Ward: like Dre and the check. Um, yeah, like, I like Jason’s energy and his, uh, you know, like his kind of attitude and whatnot. I was like, this is a good guy to work for. Um, and, uh, thought I could keep learning and, and, uh, just see where it went, where it took me and like, uh, it’s a tech company, so I knew there, uh, in the back of my mind it was like, okay, there’ll be like tech roles that I could potentially break into, uh, as well.

Um, and uh, yeah, at the time, uh, Jason made, I remember I was, uh, when I got the call from Jason that he wanted to hire me out, I was, I would do like, uh, Well, basically for fun, but basically, well for cash I would do like here and there, like little like construction jobs with the family friends. Yeah.

Make like 150 bucks cash at the end of the day. And I was just like sweating so hard, like in a wife beater, like dirty, as dirty as hell Get a call from Jason. He was basically like, Hey, we want you to join the company. Um, here’s the offer. [00:24:00] Uh, and I was like, all right, let me think about it. And then like, called him the next day and I was like, yeah, let’s do this.

That’s great. And what was that like? Uh, which part? The working there. 

Marc Gonyea: So Oh, just talk to us about how your job 

Mike Ward: evolved. Yeah. So at Resonate the, uh, so the first SDRs they ever had, uh, were crush and I. So we kind of got hired out to basically like build out the program from scratch. Mm-hmm. Um, which I honestly credit to kind of giving me some of the experience that I took into other lines of work.

But, you know, everything from writing scripts to building reports and Salesforce to like figuring out like how we’re gonna evaluate success, like goals and things like that. Like, we were all kind of, Matt and I were literally like figuring it out on the fly, um, with some direction, but it was like the inaugural SDR team.

Yep. Um, pioneers. Yeah. Trailblazers. Yeah. Um, but, uh, [00:25:00] so it was cool. I mean we, uh, the, I believe the products, uh, the software products specifically resonate. Um, I thought it was like very interesting. Um, I really, what I really loved about, and this is part of Jason’s pitch to get me to join, um, was that it’s, uh, you’re working with brands, Not like, you know, some government contractors or something like that.

Like if you’re working with more interesting companies that people actually know and not like. Yep. Yeah. I mean, you, you guys know the 

Marc Gonyea: customer experience, right? Or customer 

Mike Ward: analytics, or what was it? It’s more like market research. Market market. Okay. Alright. Um, the media business there is, what was the, what kept the lights on?

Yeah. Um, what we were selling was more novel. Okay. Um, but it was a great experience. Uh, you guys, I almost thought you guys would know this guy, but, uh, one dude I was at a conference with here in New York last week, uh, that I met at Resonate, this dude Joe [00:26:00] Grimaldi. Um, so I met a bunch of great people there basically is what I’m getting at.

Mm-hmm. Um, learned a lot about just business in general, sales in general, like, kind of like corporate, like politicking and all that stuff. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, Good stuff 

Marc Gonyea: that 

Chris Corcoran: that’s, that’s Gonyea’s superpower. 

Marc Gonyea: I’ll work with you, man. Definitely not. That doesn’t work. It’s been negated, 

Mike Ward: but yeah, like it just got exposure to like, uh, you know, things like customer success and like, uh, like that kind of function, like that’s like distinct from sales.

Um, got to be around a lot of like, you know, data sciencey presentations and stuff like that. Okay. 

Chris Corcoran: That was probably really interesting to you. Yeah. 

Mike Ward: Like I loved that stuff. Um, and uh, I still do obviously, but Yep. Um, but yeah, it was an awesome experience. Um, through and through. I was there for I think two years.

I know you got the Yeah, we went two 

Marc Gonyea: years in three months. Yep. Plus the time you worked on them [00:27:00] with us, so, probably nearly three years. 

Mike Ward: Yeah. So when I was there, I kind of knew, uh, that I wanted to, I was like, okay, now’s the time. Like I, like I was again, like I was okay. Yeah. At, at being s c R, but I wasn’t great.

And Crush was definitely, definitely had the crush, had the it factor in like the, the fire in his belly way more than I did. Um, so he just like outshined me, uh, it like completely in, uh, and, um, maybe I’m underselling myself a little bit. You are, you 

Chris Corcoran: are a little bit, you say it was like, it was like Patrick Ewing in the Jordan era.

Just, you know, Jordan couldn’t 

Marc Gonyea: win rings. Yeah. Right. I mean, you’re talking, first of all, they remember that to pass, to hire you. So like you were guys were a package deal, but they had to pay memory blue to convert both you and Crush. So if they think you were worth converting, they would’ve paid the fee and they paid the same 

Mike Ward: amount for both of you.

Yeah. I mean, uh, I’m, I’m, I’m definitely got my, my humble cap on a little bit. 

Marc Gonyea: Yes, yes. And, and don’t let, we don’t want Crush getting too big of a head. Right. Like that guy and, and, and crush like you [00:28:00] could make the argument or easily, he, my guess is he’s not gonna be able to do your job the way you do yours and neither you can, probably can’t do his the way you do his.

He does his right. So everybody’s got a deck of cards. Right. And certain card sort of things, but, so you’re doing your thing. Of course. He’s like, I was born to do this. You’re like, yeah, I, I like this. I’m pretty good at it, but not something 

Mike Ward: I’m, I knew I would be better at something else. Mm-hmm. Um, so kind of like what I was getting at with, with, uh, and this is why like being a part of the, the, the first team was good is because I got exposure to like building out reporting and like thinking about how to analyze our results and thinking about how to predict success.

And stuff like that. So I just kind of took it upon myself to start doing some of that stuff. Like off the clock or just like without, like with people knowing? Without people knowing, yep. Just kinda like doing, just, uh, doing things that were outside the scope of the role. Salesforce stuff. Um, yeah. At the time it was mostly Salesforce stuff.

Mm-hmm. Um, you know, like tons of Excel. Mm-hmm. Random stuff [00:29:00] like that. Um, and then towards like, I guess like, probably like a year and a half in was when I was like, okay, like now I’m like, I think I’m ready to like start like pitching myself for other roles. I see. Um, and I went to the, there was a, uh, there was a data analyst position open on the, uh, the, I don’t remember what the team was even called.

I don’t think it was, I can’t remember if it was product or data science, but there was a data analyst position open and I went to apply for it. And they were like, we are, they actually already had hired somebody for that, but they’re like, we have this other position, this research analyst position. That you should apply for.

And, um, it, the research analyst position was not really what I was interested in. 

 basically like survey interested in. It was basically like is not really what I wanted to do. Yeah. But I was like, you know, whatever, like I’ll like dip my toes in this and like get in the right circle. Yeah. You know, and I’m closer there in this job and Yeah.

Uh, and it, I didn’t get the job, so Okay. I was like, and right when that happened I was like, all right, well, uh, time to [00:30:00] bounce, time to get something else popping. 

Marc Gonyea: Yep. And then so what, what was that like? So you got this SDR experience, but you’re more technically proficient with the reporting and probably analyzing things, and then you went to the market.

Mike Ward: Yeah. So, um, I actually got reached out to by, uh, a company called Risk Span at, while I was like, the timing probably couldn’t have been any better. I remember it was like, basically like as that happened, I got like a, a LinkedIn like message from the recruiter. Um, Shalini 

Chris Corcoran: was, but was the recruiter looking approaching you because of your SDR experience?

Yes. 

Mike Ward: Okay. Yep. Okay. So, so they need, they wanted an SDR and it was a FinTech company. So kind of speaking my language a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I was like, okay, like you have, you have my attention. Like in their, uh, I was living in DC and the resume office is way out in Reston and there wasn’t any remote work at that point.

Jason was like, no, get your ass in here. Um, old school, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, I remember I [00:31:00] asked to be able to work remote like once or twice a week, and he was like, no, I was great. It’s funny, uh, how much things have changed there, right. Um, yeah, so they reach out to me for, uh, an SDR role, like I said, FinTech companies.

So I was kinda like, okay, like I could, I could be down with this, like, let me like see what other like opportunities there are, like in the group, grander scheme of things there. And uh, the dude who interviewed me, Um, Sean Begley. Shout out to Sean. Yeah, Sean. Love that guy. Um, he was the, he was my manager and he was, he’s like a long time like finance seller, like really new stuff.

Extremely smart guy, really charismatic from Boston. And, uh, we were talking, uh, in the phone interviews and I was just, I told him straight up, I was like, Hey, like, I’m down to come, uh, to, to come do this, but like, are there other, like, what are some like the more like techy, analytical roles, uh, available with this company?

And I was like, and he was like, oh. He [00:32:00] was like, dude, we got all sorts of like, it’s a FinTech company. Like we got stuff, like if you got the stuff, like, and you can demonstrate it, like we can make something happen. Yeah. And I was like, I was like, all right, like, let’s do this. Um, and then, uh, I joined, I was actually, I was more successful as an SDR at Risk Span than I was at Resonate by like a mile.

Um, really? Why? Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, I didn’t change all that much. Um, Crush wasn’t holding me back. Maybe, maybe Crush was like sniping all the leads. Yeah. Steal, like stealing my contacts in Salesforce or something. Maybe that’s what it was. Highly possible. Um, but yeah, like it did really well there as an sdr.

And, um, uh, it was a small company, like about the same size as Resonate, maybe even smaller. And, uh, then couple, just like two or three months in there was, uh, our sales ops analyst [00:33:00] left and Sean was like, you, you ready to do this? 

Chris Corcoran: Like, wow, this is two or three months in as an sdr. 

Mike Ward: Yeah, man. Or um, or three.

Well, and I had been like doing stuff like to demonstrate like, yeah, I got, I got the stuff. Um, ’cause like, I mean, we talked about it up upfront, obviously before I was even hired, but I just made sure to continually be like, like build out reporting for the team. Yeah. Like kind of just go outta my way to like, um, do stuff like that, uh, without being asked.

Yep. And, um, uh, so like Sean, like, and, and you know, I talked to like Sean and I had a great relationship too, and he’s, uh, really, like, he’s a very analytical guy too. Yeah. Um, I mean, being like in finance sales, you kind of like have to be Right. Um, at least to be uh, successful in that, uh, that realm.

But, but yeah, once uh, our sales ops left, uh, he was like, yo, you ready to do this? And I was like, hell yeah, let’s do it. Um, this is, this is great. 

Chris Corcoran: This is a great [00:34:00] illustration of. You gotta put yourself close to the position that you wanna be in. I was doing it before I got paid to do it. And but you left the company, right?

Like a lot of people would say, Hey, wait, I’m an sdr. Why would I wanna go be an SDR for your company? I wanna, I wanna be kind of more analytical. But you’re like, no, no, no, I’m gonna be an SDR. And it gives me an opportunity to kind of showcase my abilities to, within an environment that has those opportunities more likely to occur.

And then once it happened, you were the obvious choice. 

Mike Ward: Yeah. And I, like, I was, I was forthright, like from the jump. Yeah. I was like, Hey, like this is, this is where my intentions are. Yeah. I’m not like convincing words. Right. Um, and, uh, and yeah, it, it worked out really well. Let that be a lesson like we gonna give it to you.

No, no. I was, I was like straight up annoying, like, well you have to be. Yeah. I was like, not annoying, but like, you know, I went out of my way to like Yeah, exactly. Thank you for saying persistence. That is probably the most valuable thing. You [00:35:00] can learn is an sdr is persistence. Like it doesn’t matter what you do.

A lot of, like, some people just don’t ever, I guess like get forced into learning persistence. And I think that’s like, one of the things I cherish the most about being an SDR is to teach, like, you don’t have a choice. Either you’re persistent or you’re gonna like, uh, fizzle out. 

It 

Chris Corcoran: also didn’t hurt that in those two or in those two or three months as an sdr, you, you performed well, right?

Yeah, it definitely didn’t. So that really helped it. Like, so you’re performing well as an SDR and kind of as a side hustle, you’re showcasing all these things and oh, by the way, we need someone in this role. 

Mike Ward: Yep. That’s great. 

Marc Gonyea: Here’s, here’s like another thing your story tells so well, if you wanna do something else at a tech company who’s got roles and opportunities to be dynamic and how old are you?

Mike Ward: I’m 32, just turned 32 last 

Marc Gonyea: month. You living in M living in Manhattan, doing your thing, you know Brooklyn, but yeah, Brooklyn. [00:36:00] Close enough. Well, I know, I know. This is, treat me, I dunno what I’m talking about, but like for the purposes of this, these listeners to live in Manhattan, I know everybody here. You don’t really live in Manhattan, but whatever.

You took the SD r gig and put yourself in a position to get the gig you wanted. And that’s another good thing about that role. Mm-hmm. We’ve done podcasts with people in marketing, we’ve done podcasts with people in sales, pre-sales, engineering. We’ve done a marketing, we’ve done podcast now, now with you.

Like if you wanna move into one of these other roles that you don’t, you’re not prepared for. Coming outta school, take a talent, let a company desires, and then figure out a way to finagle that job. 

It’s 

Mike Ward: the best way. Yeah. I mean, uh, I, fortunately I had the, the, the, the degree to back it up. Like I did statistics and stuff like that in college.

So it was a little bit easier. I mean, I could speak the language to Sean on the phone and like talk about things like regressions and stuff like that. And he was like, okay, like this guy actually knows what he’s talking about. Yeah. Um, but, but regardless, even [00:37:00] if I didn’t have that, um, I forget who, there’s a famous quote, like, if, if you wanna be a writer, right?

Mm-hmm. Like literally like just write every day. Yep. And that’s kind of like my attitude of like, if you want to do something, just start doing it. And whether the SDR role puts you in a position to be able to do that and have the right eyeballs on it or some other role. Like, just because you’re doing one thing at a certain time or first, uh, whatever, like you can always just pick up your, just get off your ass and start doing something.

Yep, yep, yep. Um, and, um, I’m not trying to be sound like too preachy, but like preach. But that’s like, uh, I think the name of the game is just start doing the stuff and once you do that long enough, You’ll be able people like recognize it, appreciate it or whatever, and then, um, and then stuff can happen.

You’re 

Marc Gonyea: not preaching, man. You’re talking about what you’ve accomplished over the past number of [00:38:00] years since you left memory blue, right? Mm-hmm. And that’s good advice. It’s advice. I’m not preaching 

Mike Ward: What? It’s funny. Oh, I’ll let you, no, finish. I was just gonna say the, the way that, the way the Risk Span story takes a turn is pretty funny.

Let’s 

Chris Corcoran: go. So walk, walk us through it. So you’re there two, three months as an sdr. Opportunity knocks you answer the door, they move you into a 

Mike Ward: Salesforce. So yeah, it was, it was a small company, so I was like, basically the only person. I was the Salesforce admin. Uh, so doing things like uploading lists and stuff like that, and then also building out all the reporting mm-hmm.

For sales. And, um, we, uh, there, and then I would get tapped here and there to build some client facing analytics and tableau, um, which, uh, I was always like eager to do. I like had, uh, um, one guy there, Dave, I can’t believe I’m forgetting, uh, your last name, Dave. But he was, uh, he was awesome. He’s like my gym buddy.

We had a gym in the basement of the, of the office building. Um, but [00:39:00] he was like a client, he was like a sales engineer type. Okay. Um, and he would sometimes, like I would told him, I was like, yo, if you ever need someone to build some visualization or, uh, some rapport or do some analysis, like let, like let me do it.

Yeah. I was like, I’m your man. Like, come to me and let me do it. You 

Marc Gonyea: politicking while you’re working out, or I’m not gonna pick up the set bar. 

Mike Ward: Yeah. He, he was always on the treadmill, um, just getting after it there, but, But yeah, just stuff like that, like, just like any opportunity I could get to, to dip my toes a little bit more into what I was trying to do.

Like, I was like just aggressive in asking for it. Mm-hmm. Um, and that’s the other, like, that’s a, a big thing like that you, uh, and that you learn as, as an SDR too, is like, you have like, just ask for what you want. Like, like be like, obviously you gotta be, you know, um, like, you know, uh, charismatic and, uh, you know, do it in the right way.

[00:40:00] But, um, but there’s so really a lot to be said for just like being forthright and like upfront with what you want. A closed mouth doesn’t get fed. Exactly. 

Marc Gonyea: So what happened? You started doing stuff. 

Mike Ward: Yeah. So I was, uh, in that, uh, doing stuff at Risk Span. Yeah. Um, yeah. So did did a good job there.

Uh, all things considered. Uh, I had a, uh, good boss Rachel Fratrow um, she was, and you were good at giving shout outs. Um, I’m good with, I’m pretty decent with remembering names. Um, but, you know, I worked with most of these people pretty closely. Yeah. So not too hard. Um, but she was great and she was always like looking to put me in the right positions and stuff.

Um, but we got, uh, about a year in, um, got called into the office, uh, by the ceo Bernadette, who, uh, you know, I have nothing but, uh, affection for. And she was basically like, we decide we’re gonna outsource, [00:41:00] uh, basically like outsource the Salesforce function. And she was like, uh, she was like, but we had like, we wanna keep you here.

Like, we have other roles. There was like client facing analyst stuff, um, like 90% of who were like working for Fannie Mae. Um, and then she was also like, you know, you’re good at SDR like you, you could do some analyst stuff, some selling. And I like, thought about it for like a couple, like a week or two, and then was just like, you know what, like, I don’t think I want like the, the client facing analyst role and I don’t want to do like some hybrid thing.

Like mm-hmm. I think I’m just gonna like, uh, you know, move on. And she gave me like a two month, like, uh, basically like grace period where yeah, I just got paid to basically do nothing. She offered up her contacts to like Capital One and places like that. That’s great. Um, so yeah, she held it down for me and there was like no hard feelings or anything.

And, uh, throughout that process I, uh, I can’t remember if I applied to, I think LiveIntent reached out [00:42:00] to me. Um, yeah, I remember now. That tells a better story. Let’s go with that. Um, yeah, it, it, it has, so this is, uh, like some time, uh, context would be helpful here. So this is, this goes down, uh, I, I got, I got the conversation where the role is being outsourced, like the whole function of Salesforce being outsourced.

The day after we got back from New Year’s of 2020. So I had the two month grace period, January to the end of February, 2020. And I’m, so I’m interviewing at this time, and then we all know what happened in March. Yes. Um, when shit started to hit the fan and I had been in, uh, conversations with, uh, with LiveIntent at this point, and they were like, okay, like had a call or two and, uh, Then they were like, okay, we want you to come to New York for like the big panel interview.

Uh, and this is yeah, in March, I think like early March. And this is, and that’s when right when [00:43:00] Covid really started to like spiral outta control. And they were like, oh, okay. Actually, like we’re not gonna do any in-person. Like stuff like, we’ll still interview you over the phone. And at that point I was like, shit, like this is not gonna work out.

Like yeah, like the credit economy is like in free fall. Like they’re not gonna hire anybody in this environment. Um, but they ended up hiring me and my first day was, uh, was uh, April 4th, 2020. So like Wow. Peak covid madness. Yeah. Like where no one knew what was going on before vaccines were even close to being out, like all that.

Um, and I was still living in DC at the time, so. Wow. Um, So, yeah, it was a crazy. What’d they hire you for what? 

Chris Corcoran: Uh, reporting analyst. A reporting analyst. Okay. Using, 

Mike Ward: uh, we use a tool called Looker, but at the time, I mean, uh, at the time, I mean, still is, but tons of Microsoft Excel work. Yeah. Pivot, like pivot tables for days kind of stuff.

Oh, still down Chris. Mm-hmm. [00:44:00] Um, but yeah, like, uh, I got hired as a reporting analyst to basically take over, and this is why, um, I feel like this, I should, uh, expand on this a little bit more, but, um, my initial role as reporting analyst was focused on revenue forecasting and like sales reporting. Okay. Um, not, and I didn’t wanna be a Salesforce admin, and that was just kind of like, okay.

I was like, you know, this is the role you’re giving me. Like, I’m just, I’m just gonna do the job. Um, I did get certified as a Salesforce admin. I saw that a little bit. Yeah. Um, just wanted the, uh, the accolade, I guess. Um, but yeah, so I got hired as a reporting analyst, um, working for my boss, Catherine Drebin, shout Catherine.

Um, she was the, uh, director of FP&A at the time. Okay. Um, and, uh, yeah, so she basically managed this, uh, basically like reporting juggernaut called the BHT the business Health Tracker. And my job was basically initially to come in [00:45:00] and automate that, um, from like the legacy version that she was compiling weekly in Excel, where I would automate it into Looker RPI tool.

Um, and that was like kind of my like specialization I guess in the initial days. And my, my knowledge of like the sales process and like understanding opportunities and like, just like prospecting and stuff like that enabled me to really like go above and beyond really quickly. Yeah. And build stuff without being asked.

Just kinda like knowing like, okay, like. Our opportunity reporting is pretty lackluster. Like, let’s, let’s improve this a little bit. Yeah. Or like, um, you know, like activity reporting like outbound, like outbound activity and meetings and stuff like that. Like stuff that just wasn’t being done Yep.

At the time and I just came in with all this like, sales kind of background. Um, and it enabled me to really like yeah. Just start doing stuff that no one really expected. Yeah. You’re the business mind too. That is been incredibly [00:46:00] valuable. 

Marc Gonyea: Yeah. You’re just not setting up reports for some business user. You’re taking kind of what they wanted, making it even better than they 

Mike Ward: thought it could be.

Yeah. It’s It was definitely a lot of that still is. Um, yeah, that, and so, um, that was, that was the start of, uh, LiveIntent. Cause a lot of stuff’s happened since then, but that was, 

Marc Gonyea: yeah. I mean, so you’ve been there for a while and just doing that. Looks like you’re reaching into and touching other areas of the business.

Yeah. You know? Right. And then more, more responsibility. 

Mike Ward: A whole lot more to that. Um, but, uh, yeah, I, I guess, again, I’m humble, humble hat on, but, uh, yeah, I got the award for like, basically like best new hire, um, which of, of the year or whatever. Um, which, uh, that’s a big deal, man. Which, uh, I was like very happy about.

And then I got promoted, I think the next cycle. Um, get a manager role. Let’s just 

Chris Corcoran: pause for a minute. [00:47:00] Like best new hire. Those things, those positions I think are just so skewed for salespeople, right. Because those salespeople can make big numbers. Mm-hmm. But if you come in and close a big deal, like it’s just obvious, but to come in working under FP&A in reporting.

Man, you gotta do some razzle dazzle to get some best new hire, 

Mike Ward: right? I mean, uh, I guess so. I mean, uh, I remember thinking like, I’ve got some stiff competition out here. There was like, I think they nominate three people. They do it every year. It’s like a whole like awards thing. Yeah. Like that was just like one of the awards.

Um, 

Marc Gonyea: what was that the sales and revenue analytics work? Or was that the. I 

Mike Ward: was still reporting analyst. I think I was still a reporting analyst at the time. Nice. Um, but then I think I got promoted like the cycle after, uh, after that award ceremony or whatever. How big 

Chris Corcoran: of an outfit are we talking about?

Five and 10 in terms of like, employees 

Mike Ward: Got about [00:48:00] 250 people, I think. Okay. Yeah. Um, not including contractors. Okay. And, uh, partners and whatnot. Um, it’s a really great, I mean, I, I’ve only been in like, kind of like the startup world. Yeah. Um, and I, I think LiveIntent was, uh, exactly what I was looking for.

It’s like not as small as resonate and, uh, risk span, a little bit more mature and more developed and like, uh, much stronger data ecosystem. Um, and, uh, but not so big where like I would, my impact wouldn’t be recognized. Right. Um, so I was kind of like in that sweet spot of like mature enough and with enough resources really, like set people up for success.

Yeah. But also not so big that you get, uh, just kind of drowned out. 

Chris Corcoran: Right, right, right. So, so, so when you won, um, best New Hire, were you were still working from Virginia or how did you get to New York? 

Mike Ward: When did I move? So I moved to New York that summer. I knew I won and we didn’t have to.

Before you won or after you won? Uh, [00:49:00] I think before. Okay. Yeah, definitely. Before. Um, it’s funny because like to this day, we’re still a remote first company. I, go into the office, uh, here and there like at least once a week these days. Um, but I didn’t have to move to New York. And like at the time I was kinda like, man, like why, like, did I pull the trigger too fast?

My girlfriend and I, uh, went up there, moved up, moved up together. Um, and uh, yeah, it was just like covid in New York. It was just kind of like, for a while in, in a weird way, I feel like it kind of helped me ’cause there wasn’t that much to do. So I was like, I’m just gonna grind and like, and just like make good use of this, make reports, um, get all sorts of, I mean all sorts of stuff.

But yeah, just like learning constantly writing code, constantly taking like reading constantly, like just all that and um, uh, just try to like make good, make, make the best out of the shitty situation. That was Covid. 

Marc Gonyea: Sounds like you did that For sure. We don’t have it very. [00:50:00] If any excess who are writing code No.

And grinding on reporting. Yeah. Next, your background, you know, that perspective of being in the sales side. You were at a hardcore sales side, SDR is a hardcore sales shop. Mm-hmm. Actually, well, I’m not really in sales. I said you’re in sales, just do different function of it. Yeah. I mean, there’s closing, but you get exposed to all of it.

Mike Ward: Yeah. I mean, you, it, it’s almost like, I won’t say more, more important skills than learning, than closing, but like it’s just as valuable the skills you learn as an SDR that like closing stuff. I mean, closing roles certainly get a lot more, uh, it’s more of like a glamorous kind of like prestige uhhuh, especially if you’re like selling enterprise stuff.

Mm-hmm. And like can take home a real, uh, big purse at the end of the day. Um, but I forgot where I was going with that, but yeah. Um, Can’t stress enough that like the kind of like work work ethic that gets driven into you as an sdr, [00:51:00] the kind of, uh, appetite for like, get back up and try again.

Like, just kind of like getting after it. Um, you know, there’s, we could use a lot more of that. Like, in all aspects of 

Chris Corcoran: resiliency. Persistence, yeah. 

Marc Gonyea: In all 

Mike Ward: aspects of, uh, I was gonna say there just business in general. Urgency. Urgency. Urgency is a big one. Yeah. Um, there’s a major deficit of urgency in a lot of, uh, in a lot of things, but yeah.

Yeah. Uh, shout out to Jason again. He instilled this concept in me that I still think of all the time, and I actually say he called it so fu sense of fucking urgency. I like it. Um, and, uh, yeah, I, I still to this day am like, I don’t like tell my analysts that, but um, like I don’t like say that to them.

Try to keep a little more, uh, respectful. I like that a lot though. I 

Chris Corcoran: always say the urgency of now, but that just doesn’t [00:52:00] ring as urgent. What? 

Marc Gonyea: That like Yeah. Political inspiration. Yeah. Model. You and Tony Robbins. This. That’s not as good as SOFU? 

Chris Corcoran: SOFU 

Marc Gonyea: dots you right in the eye.

Let’s bring it to MB. Yeah. Dude, we’re taking, we’re bringing our, SOFU back from New York. Yeah. The, Mike Ward gave us some SOFU. Gentleman 

Mike Ward: Lee Virginia, I can’t take credit for it. It’s a Jason, Jason, Jason Schneider, uh, ism. 

Marc Gonyea: Take a picture and send it to him. Cause that guy’s been a big supporter of the company.

Cause we worked with him at Clarabridge before you even Yep, that’s right. Maybe. 

Mike Ward: Yeah. You know, he was a customer. I knew he was your boy before. Um, I’m 

Marc Gonyea: his boy. He writes the checks. Yeah. So I’m gonna make him happy. So, 

Chris Corcoran: so Mike, for the listeners, just walk us through kind of your, your, your progression since joining Live Intent first year you win Best New Hire, and then kind of just take us from what you’ve done there.

Yeah, I 

Mike Ward: mean, um, 

Chris Corcoran: as the world kind of opens up, because a lot of our listeners are, they have no idea what, and Mark and I really don’t know either about kind of this whole world that you live in. 

Mike Ward: Yeah. I [00:53:00] mean, um, so, so my initial role is basically, uh, using our BI tool Looker to, with pre-engineered data sets to build things.

And that was like, I wasn’t doing any of the like data engineering or analytics engineering side. That’s really what I call, what I do is analytics engineering. That’s what like the market, the industry calls it. Um, But, uh, so initially it was more just like none of that stuff, no code writing or any of that.

Um, just, uh, taking things that data engineering already provided and then building things with that. Um, but what I started to do, this gets back to like, just do the stuff you wanna do, is I would just take it upon myself to start writing SQL code to do things, um, that either like I knew the business needed or sometimes I just like wanted to build.

Um, and, uh, just kind of started running, like, just doing [00:54:00] stuff that wasn’t in my job description. Um, but I knew I wanted to do. Mm-hmm. And it, uh, comes really, it came really naturally, comes really naturally to me. Um, so it made it easier. Um, but yeah, just started doing, just doing things, uh, that, uh, I guess, um, made people’s lives easier and they.

They liked that and they were like, okay, well let’s put you in a, just start to elevate you. Um, when I got promoted to manager of sales and revenue analytics, like, as the name suggests, I was focused very much on like sales and revenue forecasting. Um, which, uh, you know, was my specialty for probably like two years.

Uh, maybe like a year and a half and before. And then, um, then I guess when I got put up to director shortly after that, um, which was awesome. It happened faster than I thought. Um, but I was, and I was [00:55:00] doing, and so basically at this point I’m doing like what, what I call analytics engineering, where we have a data warehouse.

I collaborate with our data engineering team, and, uh, we basically like build, uh, Build tables and models and stuff like that. Using, I use pretty much SQL exclusively s ql, um, for those who don’t know the, the vernacular as well, um, for the uninitiated. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so we use like, uh, we use, uh, aws, so are, we use like Amazon Redshift database, uh, Amazon Athena database.

Um, and I’m basically just programming and automating stuff in that environment, uh, flowing it through into Looker. And then either myself or now I have, uh, two great analysts that work for me. Um, we build stuff from there, but I’m doing now my job is almost entirely the backend, like in engineering of, uh, of the process.

And my day, [00:56:00] the day engineering team, uh, is like my partner team, shout out to Jad, um, who, who leads that team. But, uh, we work really closely. They, they do a lot of, I mean, Uh, I guess I’ll take a step back. Ad tech for the uninitiated, as Chris said, is just a crazy amount of data. Like unreal. Like the, the logs we work with are log tables that generate like billions of rows each month.

Billions. So like, the amount to sift through and, and, uh, you know, make use out of is just, it’s just endless. So there’s just all like, endless opportunity to do things better, optimize things, make them prettier, make them more accessible to people, get things, get more, like, more insights into more people’s hands.

Um, you know, I always went outta my way to, uh, interface with like execs and stuff as much as possible. Mm-hmm. Uh, got, uh, all the, all the, all the execs over at Live 10, I got, uh, [00:57:00] a ton of respect for. And, um, I think, uh, they’ve feel the same way about me. Um, And, uh, and now then I, I had my first hire. And if I’m just running off.

No. 

Marc Gonyea: Fascinating. Like, like we told you, they don’t, listeners don’t wanna hear Chris. 

Chris Corcoran: And I still, I still wanna learn how you learned how to program a sequel. 

Mike Ward: Um, uh, so I guess so I, when I was at risk span, I was just staying late at the office, just doing like programming, basical, just grind basically.

Yeah. Just like, you know, self-taught. Um, yeah. Uh, I mean I did some programming in college. Okay. Using state, it’s like more similar to r for those two people who know what that is. Um, so I had some exposure, like I had done some programming in college. Um, so I’d. Some, some background. Um, but I knew like, you know, where the industry, like where industry in general and like, what I wanted to do was very sequel heavy.

So I knew like that’s what I [00:58:00] wanna prioritize. I do, I do some python, uh, scripting now that it’s just not needed for my role as much. Mm-hmm. Like, it’s mostly in this data warehouse environment. Um, but yeah, when I was at risk span, I was just staying late. Like, it, it didn’t hurt that our office was sick.

It had a, it was in Roslinn overlooking the National Mall. Okay. Like 18 floors up. So we just like post up in like the, one of the like side offices, like private offices with the window there, looking at the monuments. And it would just stay late and just like write code and stuff and, um, take some courses, read some books, and just did it like a lot.

Chris Corcoran: That’s great. And that’s, didn’t talk to us about, you said you’ve moved up in your, you’ve made some key 

Mike Ward: hires. Yeah. So, um, So once I got, uh, put in, I can’t remember if it was if I was manager or director at this point, but, uh, got offered to hire an intern for the summer. Mm-hmm. And, uh, was pretty excited about that.

Had never managed anybody before, like at any [00:59:00] job ever. Yeah. Um, and, uh, was going through some, uh, we use like the LinkedIn hiring, uh, tool, I forget what it’s called, but yeah, sifting through resumes, you know, first time doing that. Um, and then I’ve picked a short list of five people and sent them basically like a skills assessment where I sent ’em like a data set, uh, nothing crazy.

Um, and was basically like answer these five questions and, uh, Got, and some people didn’t even do it. Uh, a couple, a couple came back and they were just like, like horrible, like wrong answers or like, yeah, like formatting things wrong or just like, just like I was, I was pretty like impressed with how bad some of them were.

Especially ’cause they had these kinda depressing, they had these very embellished resumes too that made ’em sound like they were awesome. I was like, hell yeah, this person’s gonna be like, you know, the shit. Um, but then like the, the assessment would come back and I was like, geez, like, I don’t know, [01:00:00] like, what is this?

And then I got one that was in a pdf, uh, PowerPoint with like logos and like, just very professional. And he was this kid, Harris Ali. Shout out to you Harris. Um, who, uh, is uh, uh, from Pakistan originally. He, uh, went to, uh, Ohio Wesleyan University here, uh, in the States obviously. And he was just by far, like the standout of the, of the crop.

Um, and I knew, like from the assessment alone, I, I told Catherine, I was like, I’m gonna hire him just off of this. Mm-hmm. Like, ’cause he had like the care, like he just like had pride in his work. Mm-hmm. Whereas these other, like none of the other candidates did.

And like Yeah. He got the answers right too. Um , what was he studying in college? Quantitative economics. So similar background to me. I see. Yeah. Quant. There you go. [01:01:00] Um, but yeah, he was just by far and away the, uh, the standout in terms of the assessment. Um, and then in the interview, you know, he, he is a, he is a, a shy guy in the, in the beginning.

Um, but, you know, I like felt really good about him and, um, And hired him as an intern. And then, uh, he’s, uh, he graduated and then I hired him back and now he’s on my team now. 

Marc Gonyea: Awesome. That’s where those SDR skills come handy and kind of size people up a little bit. Yeah, no doubt about that. Ask you some questions, kind of pull 

Mike Ward: Oh yeah, talk.

Yeah. Get yeah. Right. Open up. Exactly. Yeah. That stuff’s so important. Um, but yeah, he’s been, uh, he’s been phenomenal. People at LiveIntent adore the kid. I call him a kid. He’s, uh, 23 or 24, but, um, but yeah, he’s great. And he was the first first hire ever made. Um, worked out really well and, uh, it’s still working out really well.

He’s, uh, a stud. Was Crush 

Marc Gonyea: upset that you didn’t like one of his, uh, how he interpreted the data. [01:02:00] 

Mike Ward: Probably Crush. Crush probably got mad at me for a lot of things. Yeah. Over the years. Um, 

Marc Gonyea: where are you gonna go with this? Cause as we wrap up here, 

Mike Ward: uh, you know what, 

Marc Gonyea: talk about career 

Mike Ward: progression.

I mean, I, I, I really like where I’m at. I just want to get more and more, uh, involved in like the engineering side of things. Like, I, like, I like being a, a people manager, and I don’t want to, uh, end the show without shouting out to priya my other analyst, um, she joined my team. She was already hired, uh, working for someone else at the time.

Um, but when I took over the BI team, uh, she came in under me and she’s, uh, she’s been doing, doing a great job as well. Um, so I managed two people and at first I was kind of like, I don’t know if I really wanna like, manage people. I kind of just like writing code and stuff and just zoning out and doing that, like, zoning out.

Like, but like, just being able to, you know, like flow, yeah. Being in the moment, just not, and not have to like, um, not like [01:03:00] have to worry about like other people. Sounds bad, but like, um, but I, but I, but I quickly came to realize like, I really like that. I don’t like being like isolated and like, uh, And not interacting with people.

Like, I get a lot of energy and like, um, inspiration from like, interacting with people. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I really like where, where I’m at now, um, kind of getting the best of both worlds, like where I’m doing all this backend work and, uh, you know, doing like, which is what I genuinely love doing. It comes really naturally to me.

Um, and I think that’s why it’s worked out so well. But I also get the, um, the ability to really, like, it sounds corny, but like, change people’s lives a little bit. Mm-hmm. Like teach them stuff, put them in positions, uh, that will benefit them. Like really. Um, like I, I love working with Harris and Priya.

They’re fantastic. And, um, I think in terms of like where to go from here, yeah. It’s just, uh, Become a, just [01:04:00] become a better engineer every day and a better manager, uh, every day as well. And um, you know, there’s a, there’s a chief analytics officer role out there now, and I would say in terms of like the crown jewel, that would be it.

Marc Gonyea: Very good. Sky’s the limit. We’ll do another podcast before you get there. Yeah. Very good. 

Chris Corcoran: We weren’t gonna have to hurry. 

Marc Gonyea: I know, man. This guy’s moving up the ladder. 

Mike Ward: Yeah, very good. I got a little ways to go, but, that’s definitely like the goal, not gold star, north star. The North Star, north Star man.

Um, 

Marc Gonyea: yep. Very 

Chris Corcoran: good. Well, Mike, we appreciate, uh, you coming by and catching up with us. I 

love 

Mike Ward: the wisdom. I couldn’t have been happier to do it. Great. Thank you. It was great. Great seeing you both and having this conversation. Absolutely. 

Chris Corcoran: Thanks.