Campus Series: Aaron Johnson – Sales Skills Are Ubiquitous
Sales jobs can often get a bad reputation from the public due to many common misconceptions. However, this usually stems from a lack of understanding of the nuances of a sales career. Sales educators like Aaron Johnson work every day to change that opinion and know that getting into sales is an excellent career option that builds skills that can be used for a lifetime and holds the potential for freedom in the workplace.
In this episode of the Campus Series podcast, Aaron Johnson, Assistant Professor of Marketing at Salisbury University, talks about the universal application of sales skills, the importance of relationships in sales, and the parallels between being in sales and running your own business.
Guest-At-A-Glance
💡 Name: Aaron Johnson
💡 What he does: He’s the assistant professor of marketing at Salisbury University.
💡 Company: Salisbury University
💡 Noteworthy: Aaron is teaching Principles of Marketing, Professional Selling, and Marketing Strategy (MBA) at the Perdue School of Business at Salisbury University. As an instructor with the Mid-Atlantic Sales and Marketing Institute (MASMI) at Salisbury University, he connects sales students with local and regional businesses and travels to national sales competitions with student competitors.
💡 Where to find Aaron: LinkedIn
Key Insights
⚡ Being a salesperson is a lot like owning a business. Sales is very similar to entrepreneurship. Being a salesperson is like building your own business. Aaron explains, “Earning potential is great. The commission is always a draw for people to get into the industry. I think, as an added bonus, depending on your position — maybe not entry-level, but let’s say, as you advance and become a field rep where you cover a territory — you don’t have to be in the office every day. You’re given a lot of autonomy. And as long as you are closing deals, you have the freedom to work when and where and how you want, which is much like owning your own business, and that’s really appealing.”
⚡ Relationships drive your success in sales. Relationships play a vital role in sales. Aaron says, “The bankers didn’t have a relationship with me. There wasn’t trust, and although they are incentivized to send these referrals to me because they’re getting paid for it if I can close the deal, it was an unproductive two days of work. And I think it was the lack of presence that I had with them, and it affected how eager they were to refer business to me. I felt that even the businesses that I met with — I was able to meet with a few — they could sense that I was an outsider and not really invested in the bankers or the area. And I learned that relationships are really important, and we need to get to know our people, our employees, our partners, or our customers because it’s those relationships that drive our success in sales and in life.”
⚡ Sales skills are ubiquitous. Despite what many students think, sales is an excellent career choice. Aaron explains, “Those questions that I ask at the beginning of class, ‘Have you had sales experience?’ ‘Do you want to have sales experience?’ And I’ll purposely focus on those students that answer ‘no’ to both, and I tell them, ‘Guess what, this class is for you.’ Not that I’m going to try to convince you to go into sales, but sales skills are ubiquitous. Any job that you want to get, these sales skills can not only help you craft your resume, but they can help you ace your interview.”
Episode Highlights
There are many misconceptions about the sales profession
“Going back to door-to-door, not necessarily my connection, but many of us have that experience as a kid — you get a knock on the door, and it’s someone selling something. And my perception of sales, which I would say is a misconception, was that you had to be a smooth talker because they often are, or at least, we see that in the media.”
The process of elimination can be of great help when choosing your career path
“When I give multiple choice exams to my students, they might not know the right answer, but you can start with what you know is the wrong answer; but, to do that you still have to go through the experience. So you take that first step towards a position that you think is right at the time, and then you learn it isn’t, and you’re able to cross that off and say, ‘You know? This position, or this industry, or this product, or this location is not right for me.’ It still takes doing some research on the front end. Then we’re able to cross stuff off and not feel that it was time wasted because we’re sharpening our skills along the way and learning what we really want to do in life.”
Do your research
“Students want to sell something that’s sexy. If they’re going into sales and have a recognized company because it’s good to put on the resume, I get that. But, I think in the interview process, and even before then, they should do research on the companies that they’re interested in and try to talk with current or previous employees, if possible, to really get a feel for the culture of the company and also what sort of support or resources are available that can really drive success in that position.”
Industry experience lends credibility
“I try to curate lists of stories as much as I can whenever they come to mind. And I keep a running list on my phone, and then I can apply them in class, or I’ll put them into a lesson plan or even add them to the slides. I think it does a few things. One, it lends credibility. The students want to know that you know what you’re talking about besides just being a few chapters ahead of them in the text. Having a degree is one thing, but I think having industry experience not only lends credibility but also helps the students to learn these principles a little more deeply because they can connect it to real events.”
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Kristen Wisdorf: Welcome back hustlers to another episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers, our special Campus Series. I’m your host, Kristen Wisdorf. I have joining me today Libby Galatis. Hey, Libby.
[00:01:20] Libby Galatis: Hey, Kristen. How’s it going? How are you doing?
[00:01:23] Kristen Wisdorf: We’re great. Super excited for today’s podcast episode because we have a local professor. I would call it local, a DMV local, Aaron Johnson, the Professor of Marketing, running the sales program at Salisbury University.
[00:01:38] Hi, Aaron.
[00:01:39] Aaron Johnson: Hello everyone. Thanks for having me, small correction on that. I’m an Assistant Professor of Marketing.
[00:01:43] Kristen Wisdorf: Assistant professor.
[00:01:44] Aaron Johnson: Helping to run the sales program here. Not the director.
[00:01:47] Kristen Wisdorf: All right. Well, we appreciate all sales professors here on this podcast and we appreciate Salisbury University. We have alumni from Salisbury.
[00:01:56] It’s a really short drive from our headquarters office, here in Tysons, Virginia. So, we’re happy to have you on the podcast today, Aaron.
[00:02:03] Aaron Johnson: Great to be here. Thank you.
[00:02:04] Kristen Wisdorf: So, Aaron, I don’t know if you know this, but we like to start all of our episodes actually the same way we start our interviews when we interview your students, which is, “If you could just take 60 seconds and give us your highlight reel, tell us more about you.”
[00:02:21] Aaron Johnson: Oh, wow. So, I, teach elevator pitches to my sales students, you know, for real life pitch and also for, for competitions. I’m not sure I, I’ll deliver the best one, but I like to think myself as a self prescribed minimalist. So, I really feel that less is more, so I’ll keep this short. I’m an educator now, technically, Assistant Professor of Marketing, uh, in the Perdue School of Business at Salisbury University, where I’ve been for the past five years. Originally from Sacramento, California.
[00:02:51] And started moving east, finishing degrees, undergraduate degree, MBA. So, now coast to coast. I lived off of the interstate 50, uh, in Sacramento and now really close to interstate 50 here. So, still kind of the same road. I teach sales classes. I help run our sales Institute here which entails planning signature events where we’re able to get corporate sponsors in front of students for recruiting purposes.
[00:03:17] And, as part of that, I also train students for national sales competitions and get to travel with them. And that’s, that’s really fun. I enjoy the energy of being on campus, uh, interacting with students. Personally, I enjoy hiking, trail running, going to the beach, all with my family.
[00:03:34] On my own, though, I like to read books, play the guitar, I just started about 18 months ago. And I also like naps. Really, really important. I’m driven by work-life balance. a lot of us talk about it, but sometimes we neglect that life part. So, I really ensure that that’s represented, not big stuff, you know, small stuff like naps and reading things with my family.
[00:03:56] But those small things are really important for me right now.
[00:04:00] Kristen Wisdorf: You know, I think that that is going to resonate with a lot of our younger listeners. Um, because nothing is better than having that college schedule and being able to have midday naps. And you really appreciate them when you’re no longer in that block, college schedule anymore.
[00:04:15] Aaron Johnson: Yep.
[00:04:16] Kristen Wisdorf: Okay, Aaron, let’s talk a little bit about how you found your way into sales and then sales education. So, let’s take it way back, what did you go to school for originally? You know, when you were a senior in high school, getting ready to graduate and go to college, like, what did you think you would do when you were a grownup?
[00:04:33] Aaron Johnson: No clue. When I, when I graduated, I knew that I wanted to go to college. So, I started at, uh, University of California at Davis. it was a great school and like a lot of students I, I did my general education classes and when I needed to pick a major, I thought, “Okay, business.”
[00:04:49] I don’t know why, but at the time that’s what I wanted, wanted to go into and I don’t know if it was the, the prerequisites or the application at the time. It didn’t work out with my work schedule ’cause I was working full time. So, I ended up going into economics, just somewhat business related.
[00:05:08] So, I finished my undergraduate degree in economics and then got a job, like a lot of normal people. I don’t know if you’re wanting to go into sales right now of how I got into sales. Is that, was that?
[00:05:19] Kristen Wisdorf: What was that first, what was that first job you had out of school?
[00:05:23] Aaron Johnson: The first job. Well, it was, it was in school.
[00:05:25] I began kind of working full-time and I was doing school, uh, part-time. Um, so my undergraduate degree took a little bit longer than normal and, and that’s okay. I always tell my students, ” There’s no rush.” Right? Not to compare yourself to others. But I had, I was working full-time installing sign posts in front of people’s homes, you know, like the for sale signs.
[00:05:47] Kristen Wisdorf: Wow. Okay.
[00:05:48] Aaron Johnson: Yeah. So, that was my full-time job, uh, doing school on the side, not sales related. But I was moving to a different state for personal reasons. So, I, I needed to switch schools and then also find a new job. And I knew a guy who was doing door-to-door security sales. We met, I wasn’t interested in so much the summer door-to-door sales.
[00:06:07] It seemed too brutal for me, at the time. But he had some connections with the company and was able to get me in contact with the, uh, corporate sales recruiter. So, I interviewed well with them and, and really connected with that corporate sales manager. So then, when I moved, I was able to get a position with them and he was a great person.
[00:06:25] I learned a lot from him and that was my introduction into sales.
[00:06:30] Kristen Wisdorf: You know, that’s how, I think, a lot of people end up in sales is it isn’t necessarily or at least it used to not be something people would necessarily graduate high school and think, “I’m gonna go to college for sales and I’m gonna be a professional salesperson.”
[00:06:44] They happen to find their way into it the way you did. So, once you took that first door-to-door sales job. Like, what were some of the most surprising things about it and your first kind of, you know, professional or full-time sales role?
[00:07:02] Aaron Johnson: Well, it wasn’t a door-to-door position. I was introduced by someone who did door-to-door, but I did their corporate sales.
[00:07:08] So, I was in an air, air condition office.
[00:07:11] Kristen Wisdorf: Nice. Was it a lot of phone calling?
[00:07:13] Aaron Johnson: It was. So, I worked for about three different companies, doing phone sales. That initial one was phone sales and then two other companies doing phone sales. And this is all why I was earning my undergraduate degree.
[00:07:26] Mostly full-time, some part-time work. There were small companies I sold things like home security systems, SEO packages, for real estate companies. And then even did at-home loans for a year. But when I completed my undergraduate, uh, I started working for Wells Fargo Bank. Initially B2C sales.
[00:07:44] So, I was a personal banker for about a year and a half and then I transitioned to B2B and did some business banking. So, I was working with local businesses, setting up accounts and doing business lines of credit. And with the bank I was promoted to an Industry Partner is what they call it, where, this is, so my third position with the bank, I was a field sales rep selling merchant services, like credit card processing, both online and in person, for these small businesses.
[00:08:09] And the bank offered graduate tuition assistance, which was great. So, I was able to go get an MBA, still not knowing exactly what I wanted to do. But I liked doing sales at the time, so I continued that, had the opportunity to get a free education. And so, I went back and got an MBA.
[00:08:27] Kristen Wisdorf: Wow. So, you have experience early on in your career selling in a variety of different industries. What, I guess, if you look back, like back then, what were your misconceptions about sales before that first sales role?
[00:08:42] Aaron Johnson: So, going back to door-to-door, not necessarily my connection, but, you know, many of us have that experience as a kid, you get to knock on the door and it’s someone selling something. And my perception of sales, which I would say is a misconception, is that you had to be a smooth talker ’cause often they are, or we at least see that in the media.
[00:09:02] Or you have to be that person that doesn’t take no for an answer, right? You’re stopping at nothing to convince someone to buy. And these are misconceptions that I really try to address when I’m talking to students. ‘Cause they even have them, them now. Right? I had that as a kid, these students in, you know, 18 to, to 22-years-old, they still have those.
[00:09:22] Kristen Wisdorf: Well, I’m sure some of those misconceptions, the smooth talker, the really, like, persistent, maybe cooled off after you had some experience in it. What were your biggest surprises or I guess pleasant surprises once you got into sales and how did it lead you to a career of now being a sales educator? What did you like about it?
[00:09:42] Aaron Johnson: Earning potential is great. Right? The commission is, is always a draw for people to get into the industry. I think an added bonus, depending on your, your position, maybe not entry level, but let’s say, you know, as you advance and become a field rep where you cover a, a territory, you don’t have to be in the office every day.
[00:10:01] You’re given a lot of autonomy. And as long as you are closing deals you have freedom to work when and where and how you want, which is much like owning an own business and that’s really appealing.
[00:10:16] Libby Galatis: So, one thing, Aaron, that stuck out to me, when you kind of initially talked about going to UC Davis is that you had no clue what you wanted to do, what you wanted to major in.
[00:10:26] It was just kind of you learn as you go, you sort of figured it out as it was happening. And I can relate a lot to that experience. I went to college, I majored in communication, minored in business, had no idea what I was doing with it. I just figured it would transfer into something, transition, translate into something professionally.
[00:10:42] And you had also mentioned throughout your career, initially, you transitioned to a handful of different, of different sales roles. And we talked about that a few times. Do you think it’s more important to know what you wanna do and be certain of that or to define what you’re not looking for in the early parts of your career?
[00:11:00] Aaron Johnson: Sometimes process of, of elimination is best. So, when I give multiple choice exams to my students, they might not know the right answer, but you can start with what you know is the wrong answer, but to do that you still have to maybe go through the experience. So, you take that first step towards a position that you think is right at the time and then you learn it isn’t and you’re able to cross that off and say, “You know what, this position or this industry or this product is not right for me, or this location.”
[00:11:31] It kind of still takes some doing, some research on the, on the front end And then we’re able to, to cross stuff off and not feel that it was time wasted because we’re sharpening our skills along the way and, and learning what we really wanna do in life. And for me that happened a lot later.
[00:11:46] You know, I became a professor in my mid-thirties. And so, you know, kind of going back to comparing ourselves to others, you know, where it’s not necessarily a race, it’s a marathon and we just have to be okay with kind of failing or, or finding out what we don’t like along the way.
[00:12:04] Libby Galatis: Definitely. I agree. And I think in sales, especially when you’re first learning, just like when you’re learning how to play a sport, failing, failing hard, failing fast and kind of learning through your mistakes. It’s a common theme. So, I like this mentality of just kind of diving head first and just trying and learning how you feel about it once you give it a shot.
[00:12:23] So, when you’re talking to your students about where they should take their career after they graduate, obviously there are certain aspects of opportunities that are more important than others. Maybe certain aspects, as far as it doesn’t, you know, what secondary would be, what exactly you’re selling and a priority might be what type of manager you’re looking to have and focusing on those types of things. What do you think is most important for students to keep in mind and kind of focus on if they are pursuing sales roles based off of your experience?
[00:12:53] Aaron Johnson: So, kind of just in, in choosing their first job offer?
[00:12:56] Libby Galatis: Yes.
[00:12:56] Aaron Johnson: Yeah. So, I don’t think it should be about the allure of, uh, of a product or maybe brand recognition. Students want to sell something that’s sexy if they’re going into sales and, and have a recognized company, ’cause it’s good to put on the resume and I get that. But I think in the interview process and even before then they should do research on the companies that, that they’re interested in, try to talk with current or previous employees if possible to really get a feel for the, the culture, um, of the company and also what sort of support or resources are available that can really drive their success in that position.
[00:13:35] Libby Galatis: I love that. And one final question that I have for you regarding kind of the earlier stages of your sales career, what experience can you point to that you feel you grew the most from? From those different sales opportunities, is there a specific instance that you can share with us? Um, a lot of times we learn about these just kind of mega failures where, you know, uh, early in your career, you fall on your face, you gotta learn from that mistake.
[00:14:00] Just in this theme of learning as you go and kind of going into the experiences open-minded and taking what you can and kind of moving on from them, is there a specific job or specific instance in these kind of earlier stages of your career that you can reference and kinda share with us?
[00:14:15] Aaron Johnson: Yeah. When I was selling merchant services for Wells Fargo I, I covered a territory of about 25 branches. So, it was, it was up to me to travel to these locations. I would meet with local businesses who banked there, as I mentioned before, I was called a, a partner and that would be, that meant that I partnered with the retail bankers there.
[00:15:29] And I would market my services to them so that when they came across businesses, they could send them highway and refer them to me. So, there was one or two branches, they were about four hours away and, understandably, I couldn’t make it there very often. And I didn’t do a whole lot of outreach in between those times that I would visit.
[00:15:48] So, there was this one time I, I planned a two-day trip to visit the branch and, and meet with some businesses. And it was painful. The bankers, they didn’t have a relationship with me, there wasn’t trust. And although they are incentivized to send these referrals to me ’cause they’re getting paid for it, if I can close the deal, it was an unproductive two days of work. And I, I think it was the lack of presence that I had with them, and it affected how eager they were to refer business to me. And I, I felt that even the businesses that I met with, I, I was able to meet with a, with a few, they could sense that I was an outsider and not really invested in the bankers or the area.
[00:16:30] And I learned that, relationships are really important and we need to get to know our people, right? Our employees or our partners or our customers because it’s those relationships that drive our success in sales and in life.
[00:16:45] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s such a good lesson. Maybe, probably felt hard to learn it, like, at the time when you were going through it.
[00:16:51] But I think it’s like a good, it’s a good lesson of relationships. And also of, you know, working the sales process what might be, you know, top-of-mind for you ’cause it’s your every day, I think, you know, people early in their sales career, they don’t realize that your prospect, this is not their every single, you know, the thing they’re thinking about every single day.
[00:17:12] It’s not necessarily top-of-mind and it’s on us as the sales professional to follow up and make it top of mind and provide value and build those relationships versus, you know, assuming our prospects or thinking about the same things we are. So, how do you, you know, learning those lessons, you know, I guess, live and in person, back when you were in that, those sales roles, how do you take your experience and your experiences in sales and apply them to your students today? Do you use those kind of, like, stories and personal instances to walk them through, um, and prepare them so that maybe they don’t fall victim to those things?
[00:17:52] Like, how do you connect the, that early start of your sales career with your sales educator day-to-day now?
[00:17:59] Aaron Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. I, I try to curate lists of stories as much as I can whenever they come to mind. And I keep a running list on my phone and then I can apply them in class, or I’ll, I’ll put ’em into a lesson plan that I have, even add them to the slides.
[00:18:14] I think it does a few things. One, it lends credibility, the students wanna know that, you know what you’re talking about besides just being a few chapters ahead of them in the text. Having a degree is one thing, but I think having the experience, the industry experience lends the credibility, but also helps the students to learn these principles a little bit more deeply ’cause they can connect it to real events.
[00:18:40] So, in answer to your question, yes, I, as much as I can, I try to talk about those things and it helps them to visualize it better and to understand these principles or sales techniques better.
[00:18:50] Kristen Wisdorf: So, let’s talk a little bit about that. You mentioned, early on, you love, like, the energy on campus and preparing and teaching your students to, you know, go to sales competitions and compete.
[00:19:02] What is the most rewarding part about what you do now and teaching sales?
[00:19:08] Aaron Johnson: So, at the beginning of each class I’ll ask students, for a sales class, “How many of you have had sales experience? How many of you are interested in going into sales?” And then, we’ll get into the stats about, you know, 50% of college graduates typically going to sales, this is according to Sales Education Foundation.
[00:19:26] If you’re a marketing major that goes up to 88% or something like that. Even then, there’s still a lot of students that say that they don’t want to go into sales and we’ll get into the why behind that. One of the things I enjoy most about the class is being able to change those misconceptions. ‘Cause a lot of it is driven by bad experiences that they had as a sales rep or things that they hear about in media or that their parents say about sales positions.
[00:19:50] And we talk about the importance of communication and developing relationships and professional sales. It’s a rewarding career and it’s a respectable career. So, that’s one thing I really find rewarding. Second is to see these students put what they have learned, these principles and, and specifically sales techniques into practice.
[00:20:11] At the end of the semester, we have a sales competition. It lasts all day, we have anywhere from 70 to 90 students competing. All of our corporate sponsors come out, they act as judges and buyers. Much like you see at the national competitions. A lot of these students who don’t feel that they are a born salesperson, you know, they’re, they don’t think that they’re a smooth talker.
[00:20:33] They don’t feel that they’re confident, maybe they’re not even a marketing major perform exceptionally well and leave feeling satisfied with the event and more confident in their abilities, and that leads to then maybe feeling better about themselves, better about the sales profession and, and even willing to go into a sales career.
[00:20:54] I find that really rewarding as a, as a professor, you know, looking back at the end of the semester at how students grew.
[00:21:01] Libby Galatis: Absolutely. I think there’s a, there’s a lot that you can learn about yourself. Not only just, like, professionally what you’re looking for, but as an individual by pushing yourself outta your comfort zone, I think growth tends to happen in your most uncomfortable state.
[00:21:16] And I’m, I’m curious from your experience, was sales something you were sure of that you wanted to pursue long-term after your first sales experience? I’m just curious, like, how did you decide that sales was right for you?
[00:21:29] Aaron Johnson: Besides appreciating, you know, the, the commission and the autonomy I didn’t know. You know what? Sometimes we get into something and just that snowball effect happens and, you know, you realize, “Oh, wow.” You know, I, I’ve been in this industry, I’ve been in this position for 7 to 10 years. Some people, it’s purposeful, others it’s, that’s just how it happened.
[00:21:52] And, I think, for me it was a combination of both. Now I really appreciate sales, maybe more than I did when I first started. Just because I’m better trained. I mean, I’m a little older and wiser. At the time, I got into that network and meeting people in that industry would lead to other positions.
[00:22:12] And I would find value in those, in those different positions. So, at the, at the time I didn’t know that it was, that it was right for me. I just kind of continued in it because my network opened doors to other opportunities within sales, but while I was doing it I really appreciated, you know, the, the autonomy and the flexibility and the challenge of overcoming obstacles that customers would throw my way and being able to present to them.
[00:22:37] I really enjoyed those things along the way. And that’s what I’m doing now as a professor. And I’m seeing that it wasn’t so much the industry that I was married to, but those particulars about, you know, overcoming challenges and working with people and presenting and, you know, communicating in those settings.
[00:22:55] Kristen Wisdorf: So, we’ve talked about the national and the different, you know, collegiate sales competitions on previous episodes. But I think a lot of our listeners don’t know that there are national collegiate sales competitions and there are some, you know, really, really big, older ones, but you are at Salisbury and you host one of the biggest sales competitions every year in the spring, which is really exciting.
[00:23:19] Can you talk to us a little bit about and tell our listeners about that sales competition? Maybe describe for us, like what happens during that week, I guess it’s kind of a weekend, from your perspective and the student’s perspective as well.
[00:23:33] Aaron Johnson: Yeah, much like the other big competitions, it’s role-play based.
[00:23:37] There’s a fictitious sales scenario that students get to read and prepare for, where it tells you, you know, what company you work for and who you’re gonna be meeting with and what some potential challenges and objections might be. And then, you’re given anywhere from 12 to 18 minutes, depending on the rules of that competition, to go in and, and go through the sales process where you’re building rapport, doing a needs analysis and the judges are looking at a rubric, typically remotely and, and judging you on how you present solutions and overcome objections and then gain commitment and close at the end.
[00:24:14] So, that’s pretty standard a, across, uh, it happens over three days. But none of it can happen without corporate sponsors. And, you know, although, although we all come together to really support these students, it’s these corporate sponsors that make it possible by providing money to have food and to, the cool thing about these big national competitions is mostly free for these, uh, universities coming from across the US to participate.
[00:24:43] We’re paying for food, we’re paying for flights, and we’re paying for hotel. And then, the value to the sponsors is they get to recruit top national sales talent.
[00:24:53] There’s a, a career fair that happens over those two days. And when students aren’t competing outside of their 12 minutes or their 18 minutes, however long, they’re back at that career. Great opportunities to get, uh, full-time jobs when they graduate.
[00:25:09] Kristen Wisdorf: It’s so, it’s honestly like infectious, the energy when we go to these competitions because, you know, you’re with students who’ve prepared and it, in a lot of instances they’ve, you know, they’ve had an internal school competition to be able to even join the national competition and be on that competition team.
[00:25:29] So, they’ve, like, really worked hard and worked their way to be able to, to be one of the, one of the competitors. And then, like you said, Aaron, there’s a career fair and there’s different events. And, you know, as the corporate sponsors, you know, we get to judge, we actually get to walk in and watch either a video feed or a live, you know, feed of the, the role play.
[00:25:53] It’s really, really cool to be surrounded with such energy and, you know, obviously friendly competition, but also just, you know, the next, the future generation of sales professionals, it’s really, really cool. And, obviously, memoryBlue and us as corporate sponsors, we love that you spend so much time, not only preparing your students to go to these competitions, but you, you know, running your own competition as well for us to attend.
[00:26:18] It, it, it’s almost something that you can’t really, understand it till you experience it on campus.
[00:26:24] Aaron Johnson: Yeah, I agree. And, and these students, right, they’re the best of the best. And they’re really trying to put their best foot forward in all of these events, these competitions. And that’s why you’re feeling that energy, ’cause they’re there to win and it’s not just the competition, but at the job fair and in everything else.
[00:26:40] So, a lot of, a lot of confidence and a lot of energy from these students.
[00:26:47] Libby Galatis: So, I know that the sales competitions, I mean, like you said, best of the best go to that. And it’s so impressive to see how serious the students take these different competitive scenarios and they are fictitious, but, I mean, you wouldn’t know the difference between a real sales call and what these students are doing if you didn’t know that they were actually competing.
[00:27:05] For the students that maybe are not a hundred percent sure about sales and maybe they aren’t the best of the best or wouldn’t consider themselves to be the best of the best, do you think they have something to gain from exploring sales as a path, or maybe taking your course?
[00:27:18] If, again, they just aren’t a hundred percent certain and maybe aren’t fully committed or bought into sales quite yet.
[00:27:24] Aaron Johnson: Absolutely. So, those questions that I ask at the beginning of class, “Have you had sales experience, do you wanna have sales experience?” And I’ll, I’ll purposely focus on those students that answer no to both.
[00:27:37] And I tell them, ” Guess what? This class is for you. Not that I’m going to try to convince you to go into sales, but sales skills are ubiquitous. Any job that you want to get, the sales skills can not only help you craft your resume, but they can help you ace your interview. And after you get into that position, whatever it is and you go to ask for a raise, those, those skills that you learn in, in a sales class, overcoming objections, gaining commitment, needs analysis, building rapport will help you in that. They help you in your personal life when you’re communicating with people, if you have arguments or you’re just trying to pitch an idea to someone.”
[00:28:19] So, it’s, although we want to, you know, we’re training the next generation of sales professionals, we’re also training people to be better communicators and they can use that, uh, in any job or area of their life.
[00:28:35] Kristen Wisdorf: You talked earlier about, you know, when a student is considering or, we should really say when anyone’s considering taking a job in sales to not necessarily look at the product or the brand, but to look at things like researching the company, their culture and you said support system and resources. Talk a little bit more about the type of support system you either a, wish you had or had that you appreciate and you recommend to your students or that you think is, like, the best type of support system or leadership for your students who are graduating this coming year.
[00:29:09] Aaron Johnson: Yeah. And maybe it has a lot to do with leadership. I don’t know if students will be able to find all that information on a website, hopefully, but maybe, even talking in an interview, they can ask those questions. Some of it could be work-life balance, there are a lot of companies that, that push for that or that are that support parents or that support training within the position.
[00:29:32] And they really provide you resources such as handbooks or, or training, sales training so that you can be successful or opportunities to work at home. And they’re, they’re providing you with those resources so that you can do that successfully. So, leadership-related, but maybe some extra things beyond in terms of training and other support.
[00:29:52] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s great. Could you finish this sentence for us? You should not consider a career in sales if…
[00:30:00] Aaron Johnson: … if you can’t keep customers needs at the center of your mind. And maybe that has to do with, with being dishonest. So, sales, salespeople are really incentivized by that commission and that can be a driving factor in all your efforts that you do in that, in that position.
[00:30:19] But at the heart of the sales pitch, at least that, that I teach in the class, that I teach for these competitions is needs analysis. It’s really uncovering what the, what the customer needs. And if they don’t need your product then we don’t wanna, we don’t wanna force it on it. We wanna do what’s best for them.
[00:30:35] We don’t wanna hide things in a contract because we might be fearful that they’re gonna say no. We don’t wanna do what’s best for us so that we can get the commission. Uh, we wanna do what’s best for the customer. Ironically, it will lead to commission because that positive word of mouth is gonna spread.
[00:30:52] Even if someone says no to your product, you’ve dealt with them in an ethical way, and that can happen where someone doesn’t buy, but they can refer you to other people because they trust you.
[00:31:04] Kristen Wisdorf: Totally. Let’s have a little fun as we wrap up. We like to ask some just quick questions. Don’t overthink it, whatever comes to your mind first. Do you have any, like, favorite books or podcasts or articles, that if someone came up to you, you know, on campus tomorrow and said, “Professor Johnson, I wanna, you know, I wanna consider a career in sales, what, you know, books or podcasts or articles should I read?”
[00:31:28] What would you recommend?
[00:31:29] Aaron Johnson: So, you changed the question midway, you said first favorite books, and then it became favorite sales books. In my intro, I said that I do like to read, unfortunately, it’s, I lean towards fiction, Harry Potter, of course. Right? So, that would be, my favorite book is, is reading Harry Potter.
[00:31:47] Kristen Wisdorf: There are a lot of lessons in Harry Potter.
[00:31:49] Aaron Johnson: Yeah. I, I do wanna read more nonfiction, right, for professional development. My go-to book would be Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Steven Covey. Great book that, that you can use to help you in sales or just in life as a person.
[00:32:08] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s a great suggestion.
[00:32:11] Libby Galatis: If, alright, I have one, if you could have a billboard anywhere in the world, anywhere, where would it be and what would it say?
[00:32:19] Aaron Johnson: Potential. I think there already is a billboard that says that there’s some of those inspiring messages, so I’m probably stealing that. But the reason I say that is because we all have it.
[00:32:29] It’s about being okay with yourself and your inadequacies and your imperfections. But knowing that we can all change, we can all improve, it’s, it’s not a, you know, a grass is greener on the other side, but it’s more like a greener pastures thing, right, where we can improve. We can learn from our mistakes and I’ve made, I’ve made mistakes in sales, like I talked about and you learn a lot from them and you have to be okay with, with that.
[00:32:55] And then, just move forward. Growth mindset, right?
[00:33:00] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah. Which feeling is stronger for you? Loving to win or hating to lose?
[00:33:05] Aaron Johnson: Well, I try to have abundance mentality, which means there’s, uh, enough to go around. So, I don’t mind losing. And I was that kid. I played baseball growing up and we would enter some tournaments and sometimes a championship game and we would lose.
[00:33:19] And I remember teammates who were, who were crying and yelling and throwing stuff. And I remember just like I was packing up my bag, like putting my plates to and I’m just looking for my parents and it’s like, “I wonder where we’re gonna go eat?” I don’t know if I didn’t dedicate as much. I, I think I did. I practiced hard and I, I played hard.
[00:33:38] But I, I don’t mind losing, ’cause I think we can learn a lot from it. It’s part of life. So, I guess I would say I’d love to win.
[00:33:44] Kristen Wisdorf: I like it. And I like that you said abundance. That’s actually one of our, um, core values, here at memoryBlue. ‘Cause we believe there’s, yeah, there’s enough opportunity and ability for everyone to be successful to go around, here at memoryBlue.
[00:33:57] Okay. What is more important to you or, rather, if you could give this device, advice to someone, is it working for a great boss at one of those companies where maybe it doesn’t have a brand name or product people know or working for a not so great boss at, um, one of those great companies with the, you know, the, the brand recognition?
[00:34:23] Aaron Johnson: You’ve heard the same people don’t leave companies, they leave managers. So, I think that sums it up best.
[00:34:31] Libby Galatis: And then, I have one final question,
[00:34:34] what would you say to students that might be a little nervous right now about exploring sales or taking a sales class with you?
[00:34:42] Aaron Johnson: See my billboard, the billboard that says potential. We all have it. Sales is, is not as it’s portrayed in media for those smooth talkers or those people who are extra confident or extroverts.
[00:34:57] Now, maybe some things come naturally, more naturally to those people. Maybe they’re less shy. But it’s okay. Uh, I have a lot of anecdotal evidence of those shy students who put in the effort. Right? They, they weren’t born as a salesperson. They were, they were made. And in that class, they understood the importance of studying, of preparing, of practicing.
[00:35:21] And then, they do well in those competitions. So, I would tell those students that, “Come, you could do well in this class, you could do well in the competition. You could do well in a sales career if you’re able to put in the effort.”
[00:35:33] Kristen Wisdorf: Wise words for anybody, whether they’re in school or not and they’re considering a career in sales, that’s really what it comes down to.
[00:35:40] So, we very much appreciate your time with us, Aaron, and walking us through your, your professional history and what you’re doing at Salisbury University. We obviously love the competition at Salisbury and are very excited to continue our partnership with you and, of course, your students, thanks for joining us today.
[00:36:00] Aaron Johnson: Thank you, Libby, thank you, Kristen. It’s great to be here.