Tech Sales is for Hustlers Podcast

Campus Series: Bill Steiger – Humor is a Powerful Sales Tool

Guest-At-A-Glance

Name: William Steiger

What he does: William is the Associate Lecturer at the University of Central Florida.

Company: University of Central Florida

Noteworthy: Professor Steiger was a Vice President of the newspaper in Orlando for about 16 years. He is probably one of the few people who retired twice. William got an MBA, went into education, and ended up getting his Ph.D. He has done multiple things, but it turned out that a classroom is his happy place.

Where to find William: LinkedIn

Key Insights

⚡  In many ways, sales was a job of last resort. As Bill explains, people had the misconception about sales, seeing it is an accidental profession; it is a job of last resort. Luckily, times have changed, and today, with all the sales programs, those interested in entering the field have the chance to uncover all the layers of the profession and see how complex it is. For instance, in the past, nobody thought about customer satisfaction. Today, it is one of the prerequisites of successful sales. ”We all today emphasize customer orientation. So we focus on customer satisfaction. How can we help the customer benefit? How will the customer benefit from doing business with us? That’s a relatively new theory that I didn’t know till I was in my doctoral program. In my first ten years in business, my boss would say, ‘What did you sell today? Why didn’t you? Go back out and sell it again.’ Today that’s not the case. So today, we focus on customer orientation, and I believe it’s made a real difference.”

 

⚡ Being a successful teacher means looking at your students as your equals. The secret of Bill’s success lies in his approach. He treats his students with respect; he’s open to listen and understand their perspectives and expectations. ” So to me, once you establish the ground rules, the expectations; there’s a theory called expectation theory with when you join a sales class, I ask, ‘What’s your expectation?’ The truth is the basic sales class is the building block for more advanced sales. That’s logical, but the reality of it is the fundamentals are not a lot different than a lot of other professional disciplines.”

 

⚡ Sales requires pushing the boundaries and leaving your comfort zone. Successful salespeople will agree that sales are an exciting yet draining profession. It comes with many possibilities and challenges. That’s why attending sales programs are designed to prepare you for every situation. ”I say, ‘You’re going to be uncomfortable in this program. There’s going to be days you’re not going to like me very much, and I’m not going to like you very much, but that’s okay.’ So, we’re careful about convincing people that if you come into the program, you’re going to get stretched and pushed and pulled into the places you would not go if you weren’t in the program. And every student at the end of the program says that same thing. ‘I didn’t think I could do this. I didn’t think I could get through that.”

Episode Highlights

Sales Is an Accidental Profession

”At the sales program, with parents there, I say, ‘How many of you, in all honesty, put your hand up when your student came home and said, ‘Mom, Dad, I’m going into a sales program to become a salesperson.’ How many of you said, ‘Yay, thank God. You made a great decision.’ But, no, you probably said, ‘I didn’t send you there for that.’ So that’s the sentiment that most people have about salespeople. And we’re working hard to change some of that. 

When I graduated from undergraduate school, I was going into an ad agency business. I had friends working in the agency business. It was during six recessions ago, and they were firing people at the agency. So I ended up going to work for the Chicago Tribune. So, it was self-selling advertising. It’s the only job I could get.”

I Like to Listen — It’s One of the Strengths of Introverts in Sales

”I have people come to me and say, ‘I’m introverted, and I shouldn’t be in sales.’ But you’re perfect. Introverts like to listen first, think about an answer, and then respond. Great salespeople do that. I say, ‘You’re perfect.’ So I tended not to talk a lot. I tended to let the client talk and coincidentally, as we know now, that’s, that’s a good strategy.”

The Sales Process Is not Complicated, but You Need to Learn It

”I just completed a six-week summer class with a variety of undergraduate students who had to take the class, I think it’s required in their major. And by the fourth week, we start to do role plays. We do the sales process in role plays. 

And by the third week, I had one of our corporate partners come in and help me with coaching and grading some of the role plays. And he said, ‘You know, 25% of these people are better than people I have working for me.’ So, after three weeks, we taught them the sales process. And the process is logical, it’s predictable, and it works.”

What Are the Core Qualities of Successful Sales Students?

”With our program, it’s a little different. Students don’t sign up for our classes; they have to apply. So, it’s a closed program. You have to apply, go through three interviews, and submit a YouTube video that tells why you should be in the program. So we get to pick our students. 

So it’s important that in those interviews, we let them ask us questions, and that’s one of the questions every student asks, ‘What do you look for in a PSP student or an applicant?’

And we have, we have the same answer. Dr. Massiah and I interview them, and the first on the list, number one – coachability. If you want to come into the program and you had a part-time job and think you know everything about sales, you’re not a good fit for us. So you 100% have to be coachable. 

Number two, you have to have great character, which is both ethics and principles. And we tell them that right upfront. We have a 15 point professional agreement they have to sign when they enter the program. It is one of the non-negotiables.

We also look for competitive people, and that’s not at the top of the list. But at the end of the day, you have to like to compete. We look for people who are referred by people who are in the program as well. There’s a danger of that inbreeding thought, but the truth of the matter is, people who like people we’ve taken into the program have similar values.”

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:00:00] Welcome back, hustlers, to another episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers, Campus Mini-Series. Today, Libby and I are super excited to have Dr. William Steiger from the University of Central Florida. Welcome to the podcast. Yeah, we’re very excited to chat with you, a Floridian, all about your program.

[00:00:23] In fact, we even have some alum or a recent alum from your program as well. So, we’re very excited. You know, we’d like to kick off these com, these conversations the same way, just to get things opened up. We want to talk a little bit about you. So, this is the first question I ask all the students I interview.

[00:00:41] So I’m going to ask it of you as well. Bill, take 60 seconds, give or take, and just tell us about you. Give us your highlight reel, I guess you could say. 

[00:00:53] Bill Steiger: [00:00:53] Highlight reel?

[00:00:56] Well, that won’t take 60 seconds, that’s for sure. I am [00:01:00] a Chicagoan by birth and lived there most of my adult life. Then I received a promotion within my company to become a Vice President of the newspaper in Orlando and I did that for about 16 years. And then I retired and I had a number of other things going on, but I ended up retiring twice and I get fired both times.

[00:01:23] So I ended up having to go back to work. So I got an MBA, went into education, ended up getting my PhD while I was there. So here I am. I’ve I’ve done multiple things and been very blessed to have been able to land in the job that’s the most satisfying job I’ve ever had. 

[00:01:44] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:01:44] So that’s interesting. You retired twice, but you keep getting pulled back in.

[00:01:50] So walk us through both of those experiences and what caused you to, I guess, reenter education after retirement twice. 

[00:01:59] Bill Steiger: [00:01:59] Well, [00:02:00] I re I retired the first time in 2005 and I went to work in a kind of a mission assignment at, at parochial middle and high school. Helped them with strategic planning, wasn’t working full time.

[00:02:12] My significant other told me that if I didn’t find a job, I was not going to get fired from retirement, but I was going to be out of the relationship. So I ended up going back to school and then getting a master’s degree. And then ended up working kind of in a COO role for a short period of time, but really didn’t want to go back into business.

[00:02:33] So I left that and went into teaching. 

[00:02:38] Libby Galatis: [00:02:38] Wow. I mean, you don’t hear too many people that retire multiple times during their lifetime, so that’s, that’s that’s pretty interesting. I want to talk a bit about your experience in sales in general. Just kind of where your interest in the industry or in sales stemmed from and what that first experience may have been like for you.

[00:03:00] [00:03:00] Bill Steiger: [00:03:00] Yeah, you’ve probably heard this before, but sales is an accidental profession. It’s not an intentional profession. At the sales program graduation, I, I, with, with parents there, I say, “How many of you in all honesty, put your hand up,” when your student came home and said, “Mom, dad, I’m going into a sales program to become a sales person.”

[00:03:21] How many of you said, “Yay, thank God. They made a great decision.” No, you probably said, “I didn’t send you there for that.” So that’s, that’s kind of the and that’s kind of the sentiment that most people have about salespeople. And, and ideally we’re, we’re working hard to change some of that. So it’s, it’s an accidental profession.

[00:03:44] I got into it because I thought, when I graduated from undergraduate when I was going into an ad agency business, I had friends working in the agency business. It was during six recessions ago and they were firing people at the agency. So ended up going to [00:04:00] work for the Chicago Tribune, so I was self selling advertising.

[00:04:02] It’s the only job I could get. 

[00:04:03] Libby Galatis: [00:04:03] Because we do ha I mean, advertisement sales is still a very common. Internship type opportunity, we have a lot of people that come from that sort of experience and transition into technology. Will you walk us through some of the challenges that you faced when you first took that initial position?

[00:04:19] What, what did you have to kind of overcome, especially when you first started that role? 

[00:04:25] Bill Steiger: [00:04:25] Yeah, well, I was unconsciously incompetent. By that I mean, I didn’t know what I was doing and I didn’t know why I suck. So I had no clue. So you can be consciously incompetent, which means that you understand why you’re doing what you’re doing, but you don’t really know what you’re doing.

[00:04:44] So, I stumbled, I stumbled into a field where I was actually unconsciously pretty good at it. So after about a year, company provided no training. I went to my boss and said, “There’s a program over here down the street in Chicago that [00:05:00] IBM runs. It’s called IBM Sales Training.” I said, “I’d like to go to that.

[00:05:04] Would you pay for it?” He said,” Let me think about it. I thought about it. No.” So I went and paid for it. And quite coincidentally, that’s exactly the same model that we’re using today. You know, 110 years later. So it’s been, it’s been a great experience, but it was it was totally by accident and, and just coincidentally I stumbled into a program that, that everybody uses today.

[00:05:32] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:05:32] Yeah, it’s very interesting this accidental profession, because I think a lot of people who are listening would agree, right? Either the other professors that we talked to or students’ parents. But like you said, this is something that you’re trying to change and now we have people graduating from college knowing that this is what they want to get into and it’s not so accidental anymore.

[00:05:53] So you’re definitely doing a lot of the work to, to change that, which is great for people like us at [00:06:00] memoryBlue ’cause we want to hire, you know, more and more you know, sales students. I myself was also happened into this accidental profession and I also got my start in advertising sales myself.

[00:06:10] So going from business to business, selling pre advertising. Which it looks like that was your long career for you, working for different newspapers. Right? So you started this thing, you asked and kind of invested in yourself and your own sales training. Walk us through like the rest of your career and how you kind of grew that piece of your profession and went from newspaper to newspaper.

[00:06:35] Bill Steiger: [00:06:35] Well, you know, I started at the Chicago Tribune when I got back from the civil war. So it you know, it was it was a lengthy career, 34 years. By the way, forgive me, but I, I did some standup comedy when I was in college, so… I’ve never gotten out of that guys of the dry humor. Anyway, I spent 34 years with Tribune [00:07:00] company, both in Chicago and Orlando, built lengthy career and then, you know, the rest of my stories.

[00:07:05] So, I think I was the second oldest person to go through the MBA program at UCF. I wasn’t the oldest person in my doctoral goals and I think the oldest person yet who has gone through itself. Your age is just the number. And, and to me, when people ask me when I’m going to retire and I said. “Nope, no, no time soon if my health stays good.”

[00:07:26] So… 

[00:07:26] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:07:26] Yeah, you already tried twice and they wouldn’t have you, so… 

[00:07:30] Bill Steiger: [00:07:30] Couldn’t get it right. 

[00:07:31] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:07:31] So thinking back to, you know, this successful career and now you’re teaching the next generation of sales students, what are some of the most common misconceptions back then in sales and how do they differ from misconceptions now,

[00:07:45] whether it’s your students’ or their parents’ misconceptions maybe? 

[00:07:49] Bill Steiger: [00:07:49] Well, I think in many ways, sales was not only an accidental profession, but it was a job of last resort. So it’s a job you took when you couldn’t get any [00:08:00] other job. So, so you didn’t always get the most potentially good fit people into jobs.

[00:08:05] So that’s, that’s probably one big thing. The other thing is we all, we all today emphasize customer orientation. So we focus on customer satisfaction, how can we help the customer benefit, how is the customer benefit from doing business with us. That’s a relatively new theory which I didn’t know till I was in my doctoral program. 1982, the theory of customer orientation was launched, which means before that it was caveat emptor “let the buyer beware”.

[00:08:36] If they’ll buy it, sell it to them. Don’t worry about it. So to me, my first 10 years in business, that was, my boss just said, “What did you sell today? And if you didn’t, why didn’t you? Go back out and sell it again?” Today that’s not the case. Today we really focus in customer orientation and I believe it’s made a real difference in the kind of people who want to get into these companies.

[00:08:59] Because companies like [00:09:00] memoryBlue and others, we’re focused on how do you build value for the customer. So the big, big difference, big difference. 

[00:09:07] Libby Galatis: [00:09:07] I think it’s interesting because like, I mean you just said it, often it’s seen as a last resort type career. And with you having such a long career selling in an advertisement,

[00:09:18] I’m sure, especially with you going back to get that certification through IBM and getting actually educated on sales approaches. There was a combination of natural ability and then strategic kind of taught ability as well. What do you think contributed most to your success when you were selling advertisement?

[00:09:34] Both from a natural standpoint, any tactics that were just kind of tailored to you but also, you know, intentional kind of more educated type strategies that you may have learned in your time in the, in the classes with IBM.

[00:09:46] Bill Steiger: [00:09:46] Okay. Well, it’s a lot to unpack in that question. Let me see if I can take a little time to do a couple things. It turned out that quite accidentally, I was good at it. I’ve always been a I’m an introvert believe it [00:10:00] or not and pretty, pretty strongly introverted. And I like to listen. It’s one of the strengths of introverts in sale.

[00:10:06] I have people come to me and say, “I’m introverted and I shouldn’t be in sales.” “But you’re perfect. Introverts like the listen first, think about an answer and then respond. Great salespeople do that.” I said, “You’re perfect.” So I tended not to talk a lot. I tended to let the client talk and coincidentally, as we know now, that’s, that’s a really good. That’s a really good strategy.

[00:10:27] And I’m always worried about people. I, I, I care about people and I care about, I care about my clients, I care about my students. And I think that that empathetic kind of mindset with the ability to listen is, is a real foundation for anybody who wants to get in sale. That makes sense? 

[00:10:49] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:10:49] Yeah, I think going back to your comment about how, you know, sometimes introverts feel like they can’t be in sales and you’re like, “No, I’m an introvert.” Right?

[00:10:58] “It’s about [00:11:00] listening and you can be in sales.” That’s a common misconception. And then that plus everything you’re teaching your students, like you just said, are fundamentals for any professional job. So I think if you take both of those things, kind of dismissing the, the misconceptions and letting students know that this is good for you whether you have this long 34-year career in sales or not, these are fundamentals and things you can apply in your professional career.

[00:11:29] I think that’s really important and very enlightening for a lot of students to hear and know that they can take classes like yours and be prepared for how to work with people, how to listen, et cetera. 

[00:11:43] Yeah.

[00:11:48]Bill Steiger: [00:11:48] Let me say first that one of the reasons I believe I’ve been successful in, in teaching sales is that I essentially, I [00:12:00] essentially interact and engage the students the same way I did my own managing self. Exactly the same. No different. And so I treat them professionally. I treat them with respect. I have

[00:12:11] clear expectations. I want to understand their goals and expectations. So we start every class with that to exercise, everybody does that in the program. So that they understand where I’m at, and I understand where they’re at. So to me, to me, once you establish kind of the rules of the road, the ground rules, the expectations, you know there’s a, there’s a theory called expectation theory with when you join a

[00:12:38] sales class. My expect, I ask, “What’s your expectation?” We expect to come out as great salespeople as just more knowledgeable about salespeople. I think you’re going to be able to negotiate with salespeople, so you’ll get a better deal. So, you know, the truth is, the truth is the basic sales class is the building block for more advanced sales. That’s [00:13:00] just logical,

[00:13:01] but, but the reality of it is the fundamentals are not a lot different than a lot of other professional disciplines. So, you know, we, we work on really fundamental basic elements of customer relationships and, and why that’s important and then you work on sales skills. 

[00:13:20] Libby Galatis: [00:13:20] Oh, absolutely. And it’s so interesting because we’ve talked to a handful of professionals and obviously sales educators over the course of this podcast.

[00:13:28] And a lot of them have spoken to what you just said where these tactics a lot of people have them already and they have this natural ability, they’re just not named. And, and until you’re in a sales course realizing, “Oh, that’s actual strategy that I was using.” It, it, it’s just interesting how much natural ability a lot of people have, but don’t recognize until again, it’s in a, it’s in a classroom or in a textbook that they’re reading.

[00:13:51] So I guess my follow-up question would be, when it comes to your teaching style and sort of how you approach education within [00:14:00] sales, what are, what’s one of the biggest concepts you teach individuals that are in those entry level kind of initial courses with sales? Like what do you think is most important for them to take away from that first course that they’re taught when they’re going through the sales education?

[00:14:14] Bill Steiger: [00:14:14] No, that’s perfectly, perfectly logical. And the sales process is not complicated, but you need to learn the sales process. And it is a process. And I just completed a six-week summer class with some a variety of just undergraduate students who had to take the class, I think it’s required in their major.

[00:14:34] And honestly, we, by the fourth week we start to do role plays. We do sales part, we do sales process in role plays. And by the third week I had one of our corporate partners come in and just help me a little bit with coaching and, and and in grading some of the role place. And he said, “You know, 25% of these people are better than people I have working for me.” You know, after, after three weeks, because we taught [00:15:00] them the sales process. And the process is logical,

[00:15:03] it’s predictable and it works. It does work. It does work. 

[00:15:09] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:15:09] Yeah. I think that’s such a good comment, it does work. And sometimes you might not see the fruits of your labor right away in sales, but if you stick to the process and the fundamentals that we know work, like you will see success. And so sometimes it can be harder for others to

[00:15:26] stick with it and have the patience at the same time to see success. Especially when they’re actually in their first job out of college and maybe they’re like, “Oh wow. I thought I would get a sale right away or I thought I would you know, see success immediately.” But you, if you follow the process and you stick to it, you will ultimately see that success.

[00:15:45] Bill Steiger: [00:15:45] Yeah, no, I mean, that’s true. That’s true. And you get better at it. 

[00:15:50] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:15:50] Yeah. Yeah. Every time you have a conversation, that’s like practice. So I’m curious. So you said that it came naturally to [00:16:00] you to listen and you really care about people and so that resonated with your prospects. Well, what is something that is part of the process that maybe didn’t come naturally to you or that you struggled to develop?

[00:16:13] Maybe something that, you know, 30 years ago was a weakness, but you worked on it. 

[00:16:17] Bill Steiger: [00:16:17] Second and third level questions. Second and third level questions. “So, Libby, what do you like to do when you’re not working?” Then you would tell me and I would say, “Well, really? How long have you had that as one of your hobbies?”

[00:16:30] “Okay. So is that an inexpensive hobby?” Second, third, fourth, fifth level questions. Not natural, not human nature. We listen to respond as opposed to listening to understand. So trying to get students to listen and then take that, take that response and get a second and third and fourth level. I mean, it’s basic dating stuff, right?

[00:16:54] Where are you from? No, really? How long have you lived here? What do you like about the place? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [00:17:00] It’s just, it’s basic interaction communication, but, but that that’s not natural. And it’s the hardest piece to try to get students to, to embrace is the second, third and fourth level question.

[00:17:14] It is the hardest piece. The other piece is basically trying to convince them, how do you, how do you close this up, how do you close. Right? I show them the Alec Baldwin clip from Glengarry Glen Ross which, which I always warn them, “If you’re offended by obscenity, that would be a good time to go get a drink of water.” But that’s the truth.

[00:17:37] And that’s why there’s so many multiple ways to close even for introverts that are, that are not direct, not in your face, not, not cheesy and, and you have, they have to find, they have to find what that works for them. So simple as… “So, Kristen, when would you like to start?” That’s close. [00:18:00] Get the answer, get an answer.

[00:18:03] You know, and then tons and tons and tons and tons of affirmations, calculations. “What do you think? How does this look? Does this make sense? See how this could work for your business.” Over and over and over. I told them, “Write them down and, you know, write five or six of those and just rotate them through the, through the course of the sales conversation.”

[00:18:21] So,… 

[00:18:22] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:18:22] Yeah, that’s true. Closing is a series closes, it is, it’s not just one big thing. 

[00:18:28] Bill Steiger: [00:18:28] Second and third question is the hardest. 

[00:18:33] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:18:33] I mean, we see the same thing, right? When we train, we hire over 300 people a year and when people are getting into the SDR role, you need such a good point. It’s not natural. And we listen human nature to respond, not really to uncover.

[00:18:47] And gosh, that’s so true. And it’s great that we know that they’re going to struggle with it. I still struggle with it. Right? So it’s even better that you are teaching your students these things [00:19:00] earlier than previously. You know, before all these sales programs existed, you have to just kind of go out there on your own and learn it on your own and maybe pay for an IBM sales training course to learn it.

[00:19:10] Now you’re getting them, you’re getting them prepared earlier than ever before. 

[00:19:14] Bill Steiger: [00:19:14] Yeah, when I learned it was calling, they were called ‘probes questions’ and we would say, “Bill, start at large a probe here.” And I’m like, “Dude, what is this, massive stuff?” I mean, I don’t really not really. Yeah. 

[00:19:32] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:19:32] That is so true.

[00:19:33] And you made a great point Dr. Steiger. You, they it’s just like dating, right? Like, let’s go back to the fundamentals, you can use this in every aspect of your life.

[00:19:49] I want to talk a little bit more about your program, right? So you have this experience. You tried to retire, you came back. You teach the sales classes and you, you [00:20:00] run the program. So tell us a little bit about your program. How many students, how long has it been a program at UCF? We’re very curious. 

[00:20:06] Bill Steiger: [00:20:06] Yeah. Well, let me just back up one little step. And that is when I was in the MBA program, the professor that taught the marketing class in the MBA program came up to me at the end of the, at the end of the program and said, “You’re thought about teaching?” And I said, “No.” I was really thinking I was going to go back into, into businesses ops, CEO, COO, vice president operations.

[00:20:31] I was typecast as a sales guy and nobody, I didn’t really want to do that for another 10 years or more. And, and I said, “No.” And so 2008, y’all remember, you may not remember what happened, but we had the housing bubble. Everything, firing the people who were in the jobs that I wanted. So I called him up and said, “Hey, you know that question that… I thought more about that and that sounds really good.”

[00:20:58] So, so [00:21:00] he brought me in as an adjunct and after the first semester I took classes. He called me into his office, which is like when a coach brings you into the top, I figured, “Well… I might have short career. I could get fired again.” So he, he said, “The students at the end of every semester here, they do an SPI, Student Perception of Instruction survey, and they and they grade you.”

[00:21:23] And so he said, “I got your SPI.” And said, “I had to run them again.” And I said, “Really?” I said, “Okay, good. I mean, okay.” And he said, “I had to run them again because you’ve been here for three months and you are the highest rated instructor in the department.” And I said, “Yay, good. What does that mean?” “That means you get the teach the next semester as an adjunct.”

[00:21:48] So,… so the reality of it is I discovered two things. Number one, I liked what I was doing and number two, I turned out to be pretty good at it. So too… very fortunate. People come to [00:22:00] me and said, “I want to do what you do.” I said, “Go, be an adjunct. You’ll find out number one, if you’re any good at it. Most people aren’t,

[00:22:05] I will tell you. And find out if, if, if basically you like it.” Not, not a lot of people like classroom management. You know, 50 gen, gen X-ers or Z-ers or millenniums or whatever you’ve got, it’s not, not always, not always a positive experience, but… So, so that led me to work for two years as an adjunct, another year as a visiting instructor,

[00:22:31] and then I was trying to hire as a full-time instructor. And in my fifth year I became the coordinator for the, for the sales program. So the program’s been around since ’05, 2005. So, great first graduating class was ’06. It had always been a single cohort of around 30 students started in August ended in May.

[00:22:55] It was seated in the marketing department, but you were still a marketing major, you were just on [00:23:00] a sales track. So subsequent to that, we ended up convincing the university we would make, it is now a major course of study within the marketing department. So you major in professional selling. You can also minor in prof, professional selling.

[00:23:14] If anybody else in the university wants to be part of the program, you can. The class had just graduated. I had the biology major, a psychology major, which is big sense. In education major, communications, health and fitness. Who else do it? So, we will take anybody who wants it, has an interest in sale, thinking minor or major in PSP.

[00:23:37] We also introduced a second cohort, so now we have students for you to hire not only in May, but there’s a cohort starts in January ends in December. So you have two chances a year to add our students who graduate to your, to your programs. So,… That collectively between the two cohort is somewhere little less than 50 students.

[00:23:58] That’s still a small program [00:24:00] by comparison to Baylor, some of the really big programs. Florida state has over 200 students. And so we’re, you know, we kind of move, we’ve kind of move a little quicker. More hands on, but, but the program… Program is relatively small by sales program standards. 

[00:24:18] Libby Galatis: [00:24:18] It’s incredible how much growth it’s seen you know, over the years

[00:24:21] and it seems like you don’t hear many universities that actually have professional sales as a choice of major and having that be a dedicated degree that you can actually pursue. I want to talk a bit about, you mentioned this very early on in the podcast today, that you yourself, you’re an introvert.

[00:24:36] And I would say that most people probably believe that introverts wouldn’t succeed in sales. And I think it’s also interesting that so many different students have different education backgrounds and different majors are still taking your courses. So, my question would be what do you feel are the core qualities of successful sales students or students that you

[00:24:56] feel find success in sales as they pursue that next step? 

[00:25:01] [00:25:00] Bill Steiger: [00:25:01] Yeah, that’s a, that’s a really good question because with our program, it’s a little different. Students don’t just sign up for our classes, they have to apply. So the program has a, it’s a closed, closed program. You have to apply, you have to go through three interviews. You have to submit a YouTube video that tells why you should be in the program.

[00:25:21] So, so we get the pick our students. So, you know, every fall, we come back and another great class looks like a great bunch of prospects and whether they better be, I picked them. Right? So it’s really, it’s really important that in those interviews, we let them ask us questions and that’s one of the questions every student asks, “What do you look for in a PSP student or an applicant?”

[00:25:50] And we have, we have the same answer. Another one of my colleagues, Dr. Massiah and I interview and, you know, first time on the list, number one- coachability. [00:26:00] If you want to come into the program and you have had a part-time job and you think you know everything there is to know about sales, you’re not, you’re not a good fit for us.

[00:26:07] So got, you absolutely 100% have to be coachable. Number two, you have to have great character, which is both ethics and principles. And we tell them that right up front. We have, we have, we have a 15 point professional agreement they have to sign when they enter the program. And it’s, it’s all the zero tolerance stuff you have in your mememoryBlue zero 

[00:26:27] tolerance book. The seven deadly sins. Right? So the things that you don’t go on probation, you don’t get a warning. It’s, “Today’s your last day with the company and security will escort you out.” We have the same thing. If they violate and I warn them, this is one of the non, this is one of the non-negotiables.

[00:26:47] “This is your last day in the program. You’re out.” So, and that includes ethical violations, cheating. It includes, you know, disclosing confidential information that you’ve heard from one of your corporate partners. [00:27:00] I mean, we, there are seven of them and they can’t, they can’t get around it. So any kind of, any kind of hostile work invironment,

[00:27:08] anything that violates the university rules, our our, our diversity and respect for, for people. So, so we, we tell them right up front that those are the things that are most important and, and that’s really what we look for. We also look for people that are competitive and that’s not at the top of the list, but at the end of the day you have to, you have to like to compete, right?

[00:27:31] And in the list, you gave me a list and I ask them, “Do you like to win or do you hate to lose?” Right? And so, you know, we, I asked them. And yeah. No. And so it’s one of those questions that people, you know, people don’t always quite know how to answer it. And if they haven’t thought about it before, you know, and, and I, [00:28:00] I asked him

[00:28:01] and I try to frame this carefully but, “Tell me about a time when you acted irresponsibly?” And, and you’ll be surprised what people are telling you.

[00:28:14] You have to, have the time them out ready to go. “Let’s take a time out from that, let’s hear more about that, but not when the camera’s running, so let’s turn…”

[00:28:21] But, but it’s you know, it’s what we look for are those things and we look for people who are referred by people who are in the program as well. I mean, there’s a danger of that kind of inbreeding thought, but you know, the truth of the matter is people who like people who have their same values and we’ve taken them into the program, probably have the similar values.

[00:28:47] That makes sense?

[00:28:48]Kristen Wisdorf: [00:28:48] Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we hire brothers and sisters in sorority and fraternity members and all sorts of referrals at memoryBlue. Because, you know, [00:29:00] high-caliber, very competitive people, high-octane people, they like to surround themselves with people like them. So it makes sense.

[00:29:10] But I agree. In, in an effort to kind of expand the opportunity more people and create diversity, you want to look beyond just referrals as well. So,.. You know, it’s very interesting. You, you’re the first program that has such a robust interviewing process to admit people into your program between the interviews and the YouTube video.

[00:29:34] I imagine just that process in and of itself is preparing them for obviously life after UCF, right? 

[00:29:41] Bill Steiger: [00:29:41] It, it not only does that, Kristen, but it also eliminates people before we have to interview them. There are people that say, “Really? I have to go through all that, can I just sign up?” “No.” And, and so people say, “Well, how, how many people will you reject?”

[00:29:55] By the third interview and the third interview by the way is with current members of the [00:30:00] program. So the first two are faculty and the third one, goes to, to students. And I, and I warned them. I said, “This is going to be your toughest interview because, believe me, they’re not going to, they’re not going to give you a thumbs up if they don’t think you fit into the program.”

[00:30:14] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:30:14] Yeah. Nothing like interviewing with your peers. They’re probably the most, yeah, the toughest interviewers.. 

[00:30:20] Bill Steiger: [00:30:20] Yeah, they’re 

[00:30:20] brutal. They have to pick the people carefully. We have the joke about what, not the joke, but question about, “If you were in a lifeboat, which of these here in this room, would you throw out at the lifeboat?”

[00:30:36] The Lord of the Flies? 

[00:30:38] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:30:38] Well, it’s, I mean, I, I think it’s great because you’re right. It lets you know if this is how they’re going to be in an interview and they’re going to work for in an interview then no one’s their perfect self other than an interview. I, or at least I like to think, right? Like this is your best self as in an interview.

[00:30:55] So if you’re not turning it on for that and willing to do the work in an interview, how is it going to be [00:31:00] after-the-fact? So that’s preparing them for how they’re going to be in the program, but also what’s going to happen after they graduate and they represent your program out in their first job, second job, et cetera.

[00:31:11] So I love it. I think it’s putting them in a real life scenario and then, you know, you’re looking for the same qualities we do. The three Cs: Coachability Character and Competitive that you said. I think it’s, you know, it’s, it really is the hallmark of the type of sales folks that we all look for and we want to continue to develop. 

[00:31:31] Bill Steiger: [00:31:31] Yeah.

[00:31:31] Let me just quickly. Some of the students say, “You care about my GPA?” And I go, “No, we want people who are smart.” I stop. And they go, “Wait a minute. Don’t you care about my GPA?” I said, “No, but we want people who are smart.” And they don’t, it takes them a little while to connect the dots on that. Not everybody has a high GPA, not everybody has the time to have a high GPA.

[00:31:58] Lot of people have a lot of things [00:32:00] going on in their life. So we want people who are smart. You have to be smart. You have, you have to have enough intellectual horsepower to be able to sell. It’s not easy. It is complicated. And the best people I’ve ever worked with were really smart, but I guarantee you, none of them had a high GPA.

[00:32:15] Libby Galatis: [00:32:15] I think that’s a really great point. 

[00:32:18] And it turns out so well to, again, the type of individual that we hire here. Because when we’re evaluating talent, it’s not about previous work experience, as much as it’s about those intangibles that you guys are looking for. And I think it’s important for the listeners to recognize that

[00:32:34] there is not a one size fits all background or perfect, you know, ideal sort of profile and, and whatnot of, of, of the perfect salesperson. There’s so many different ways and, and approaches that an individual can take into this transition into sales intentionally. And still find success, even if it’s considered nontraditional.

[00:32:53] So, I’m curious because I know that you, I mean, within your career you started off as an individual contributor within sales. You [00:33:00] have some experience within sales management. You mentioned earlier that your teaching approach is very similar to you being a manager, managing a sales team. I’m curious, like about those kinds of key similarities more specifically, if you could expand a bit on that. And then also what you’re motivated by. Sort of what, what sort of pushes you do to show up to work every day and what do you get satisfaction from in your work?

[00:33:24] Bill Steiger: [00:33:24] Oh, okay. Well, again, there’s a couple of unpacking that one. But I think that the key is if you, and I’ve managed a lot of people who wanted to go into management, and the real key to selecting successful managers to me was you have to find somebody who wants to generate more results through other people than they could generate on their own.

[00:33:50] They have to want that. They have to want the benefit the company by them convincing a group of people to go to a place that they wouldn’t [00:34:00] go on their own. In other words, that’s leadership and that’s what you look for in really successful managers. And honestly, that’s what I do. I mean, I warn people, when they come into the program, I said, “You’re going to be really uncomfortable in this program.

[00:34:13] And there’s going to be days you’re not going to like me very much and I’m not going to like you very much, but that’s okay.” Right? Because that’s against the law in Florida. So, you know, we’re, we’re very careful about convincing people that if you come into the program, you’re going to get stretched and pushed and pulled the places that you would not go if you weren’t in the program.

[00:34:34] And in virtually every student at the end of the program says that same thing. Said, “I didn’t think I could do this. I didn’t think I could get through that. I didn’t think I could walk into a room with 150 strangers and by the end of the night know them all.” Which is, which is we do the second week of class.

[00:34:53] We have a huge networking event with all of our corporate partners and all the students. And [00:35:00] they’re terrified, they’re terrified. So that’s, that’s kind of the, you know, the notion behind that. And then I answer your question, I kind of,… I’m sorry. I digressed there. 

[00:35:12] Libby Galatis: [00:35:12] No, that was absolutely perfect. And I guess going off of the discomfort piece within discomfort and you know, pushing yourself outside of that comfort zone comes growth.

[00:35:22] And I think a lot of students that we work with, especially don’t quite realize that until they make that transition in that first sales role. And they are so uncomfortable that within the first few weeks they’re questioning their decision to, to transition. It is about trusting the process. So, I guess my follow-up is how do you prepare your students for the inevitable discomfort of that first sales role and that uphill battle of learning the skill from the ground?

[00:35:47] Bill Steiger: [00:35:47] Yeah, that’s what the program is about. And our program and others have a lot of experiential learning. So during the course of the semester, we have them on the phones probably six times. And they hate it. [00:36:00] You know, we make calls for the UCF foundation to set up appointments for their, for their, I don’t know what they call themselves,

[00:36:05] they’re sales people, right? They’re trying to generate money. We’re we’re, we’re, we’re calling for the Dr. Phillips foundation, you know, nights under the stars where we’re selling ticket packages to that. You know, we make sales calls for the Orlando Solar Bears minor league hockey team, selling packages for the holiday season.

[00:36:25] We’re making calls for… Who are we making calls for again this year? But four or five times plus they have two assignments with their business mentor where they have to put 14 to 16 hours into one study. So it’s almost every other week they’re on the phone calling people they don’t know. Then we coach them how to do that first.

[00:36:47] Right? We give them the academic side of that then they have to go do it. And then they role play with corporate partners, they don’t role play with those students. Virtually all of them have internships with corporate partners and that’s either on the [00:37:00] phone, they’re trying to customers, they’re making calls or if it’s not… Well, it’s not licensed…

[00:37:04] So w when w we found, we find in the research done by the UCF is that students coming out of sales programs, they,… Number one, they assimilate quicker, they perform faster. They actually like their sales manager because they understand what their sales manager wants from them. And they stay longer. They stay longer in their first job.

[00:37:23] So it’s, it’s, it’s what we do it. You know, I don’t have a textbook. I don’t think many of the students that need the programs do. You know, you’ve talked about the programs. There’s 5,000, by 5,000 for year schools and university, colleges and universities in United State, there’s 150 sales programs. 

[00:37:43] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:37:43] And even 10 years ago, there was probably half.

[00:37:45] And I, when I was in college in 2008, there were like 15. So… 

[00:37:49] Bill Steiger: [00:37:49] Yeah. Well, thank you. The first one was 1982 Baylor. They were… and until, until end of the 2000s there was less than 30. The last [00:38:00] couple of years, it’s really, it’s really grown. Because I think the recruiters, they finally figured it out.

[00:38:06] “Why would you, why aren’t we just picking on these schools if we need entry-level salespeople?” 

[00:38:11] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:38:11] Well, and it’s testament to your program and what you’re doing at UCF, because, you know, you mentioned earlier the, you know, coachable character, competitive student and we have an alumni from your program who recently came on at memoryBlue, Casey Rials, and absolutely crushed it.

[00:38:29] She was all the things that you mentioned. She was prepared. She saw development and ramped faster. She knew how to accept expectations from her manager and and execute on those. And she’s now an alumni of our program. She got hired by her client. And so it really is a testament to what you are doing at UCF and with your students.

[00:38:51] Bill Steiger: [00:38:51] Yeah. Well, thanks. I appreciate it. And Casey was a painful introvert, by the way, if you don’t know her that well. And she was an accounting major. [00:39:00] I mean it’s, I mean, when she’s first interviewed, she goes, “I don’t know if I’m right for the program.” After about 15 minutes, 

[00:39:06] I said, “You’re perfect.” 

[00:39:07] Libby Galatis: [00:39:07] Now she’s a team lead at our clients.

[00:39:09] So it’s a lot of growth and development. Yep. 

[00:39:14] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:39:14] So I have a question. As a, as a sales recruiter, I speak to a lot of marketing majors and graduates of marketing programs at universities. And it seems more times than not as an uphill battle to get them understanding the value of sales and its connection to marketing.

[00:39:31] So in your experience and looking back and reflecting on what you’ve taught in your classes, what advice do you have for marketing majors and marketing graduates that are hesitant about beginning their careers post-grad within sales? 

[00:39:47] Bill Steiger: [00:39:47] Well, in my signature of my email, my outlook email, right above my name there, there’s my in quotes.

[00:39:56] There’s my, my branding, which is, “Every job is a [00:40:00] sales job.” So when we recruit, I basically start by saying, “Who do you want to work for? Just tell me who you want to work for?” And I, every single job, every single company they mentioned, “They have a Salesforce, they have a Salesforce, they have a Salesforce.”

[00:40:16] Do you think it’s easier to get into that company the way you want to get into it or through a sales job? It’s a gateway into the company and you know what? For many of them, the light bulb goes on. And, and that’s how we, that’s how we get many of our students where they go, “Never thought about it that way.”

[00:40:34] So, jeez. Yeah. I want to work for Procter & Gamble. Yeah, we’ve got six people working at Procter & Gamble, a lot of the sales program and they weren’t all marketing majors. So we would, I want to work for Qualtrics. I want to work in social media. I want to work for LinkedIn. We have three people at LinkedIn.

[00:40:52] “Yeah. Great. What do you think? You want to work for LinkedIn? Join the sales program.” So it’s, you know, it’s, [00:41:00] it’s it is battle. I will conceive that. I mean, I get a lot of blank stares and roll, eye rolls and things when I go recruit. And so it’s a battle, you can’t, you can’t convince people who really aren’t going to think it through.

[00:41:17] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:41:17] Yeah. Well, we appreciate your time today chatting with us, you know. Personal experience, we know that your program is doing great things and we are excited to get some more alumni from your program. And I hope their retirement community won’t take you anytime soon.

[00:41:38] Bill Steiger: [00:41:38] Well, if I’ve been able to give you some useful information for your listeners, that’s great. And hopefully along the way I put a smile on your face occasionally, because that’s what good… Humor is a powerful, powerful tool in sales. And I try to convince my, my, my students of that. I said, “Use it wisely, use it appropriately, but use humor. [00:42:00] Humor is so, so important to deflect in your ability to get back to the subject you want to talk about.” So,… 

[00:42:08] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:42:08] And be genuine to who you are, right? So you’re a stand up. So you got to bring in the humor. 

[00:42:15] Bill Steiger: [00:42:15] Yeah, I’m just glad there was no YouTube before.

[00:42:21] It was totally inappropriate, but really, really they’re funny. So… 

[00:42:29] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:42:29] It’s funny. Well, Dr. Steiger, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it very much. 

[00:42:32] Bill Steiger: [00:42:32] You’re welcome. Thanks for having me and good luck.