Campus Series: Chris Wilkey – The Evolution of Professional Selling
An indirect career path can often serve as an aid, rather than a hindrance. In fact, the vast industry of sales and sales education favors those who are able to bring a fresh and unique perspective after navigating their way through a wide range of experiences and positions.
In this episode of the Campus Series Podcast, the Director of the Ball State University Center for Professional Selling Chris Wilkey, shares how he has personally seen the benefit of his unique career trajectory before ultimately heading up BSU’s Sales Program. Throughout this discussion, Chris delves into the way his previous positions equipped him with both an experienced lens and the ability to work with agility and creativity in the face of unprecedented challenges.
Guest-At-A-Glance
💡 Name: Chris Wilkey
💡What they do: Director of the Ball State University Center for Professional Selling
💡Company: Ball State University
💡Noteworthy: Transitioned from digital sales to academia, revitalizing a university sales program.
💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn
Key Insights
From Digital Sales to Academia: Chris Wilkey’s Unique Path
Chris Wilkey, the Director of the Ball State University Center for Professional Selling, shares his unique journey from starting his own business to working in digital sales and fundraising, before transitioning to his current role at Ball State. His path wasn’t always straightforward, but his experiences have shaped his approach to teaching and his understanding of the sales industry. This insight provides a glimpse into the diverse paths that can lead to a career in academia and the importance of adaptability in one’s career.
Revitalizing Ball State’s Selling Program Amidst a Pandemic
Chris discusses the challenges and triumphs of revamping Ball State’s professional selling program amidst the Covid-19 pandemic. He shares how he had to quickly adapt and innovate to meet the needs of students and recruiters, even organizing events and establishing connections in a short span of time. This insight highlights the importance of agility and creativity in navigating unprecedented challenges.
Choosing Happiness: Chris Wilkey on Job Satisfaction vs Monetary Gain
Chris shares a valuable lesson about choosing a career path. He emphasizes the importance of happiness and job satisfaction over monetary gain, a lesson he hopes to impart to his students. He shares his personal experience of taking a pay cut to pursue a role that offered less stress and more time off, ultimately leading to greater job satisfaction. This insight underscores the importance of aligning one’s career with personal values and priorities.
Episode Highlights
Meet Chris Wilkey: A Journey from Business Student to Director
The episode kicks off with introductions and dives into Chris Wilkey’s background. Chris shares his journey from being a business student at Ball State to becoming the Director of the Ball State University Center for Professional Selling. He talks about his experiences in digital sales, starting his own business, and working in different roles before landing his current position.
“Started at Ball State as a business student. Went into the honors program, graduated, went into a sales role at a software company. The software company wasn’t doing so great, so ended up leaving and starting my own business from there with a college roommate of mine.”
A Fun Game Segment: Mount Rushmore Additions
The hosts engage Chris in a light-hearted game where they ask him who he would add to Mount Rushmore. Chris’s answer, a paleontologist from a children’s show, reflects his playful side and his connection with his child.
“If I could put somebody up there, I have to do this for my kiddo. We watch Dinosaur Train, the show on PBS, and there’s this paleontologist named Dr. Scott, who just finds all the dinosaur bones in the rocks, teaches the kid.”
Rebuilding Ball State’s Selling Program: A Herculean Task
Chris discusses the process of revitalizing Ball State’s selling program, which had been hampered by the Covid-19 pandemic and the transition of staff. He talks about the challenges of rebuilding the brand and re-establishing events and activities.
“We were able to get it back up and running pretty quickly to at least two thirds of what it used to be. And with the summer to plan, we’re back up to a full slate of events and activities, and the partners are very excited and happy.”
The Importance of Early Recruitment in Sales Programs
Chris emphasizes the importance of recruiting underclassmen into the sales program. He believes that early exposure to professional sales as a viable career and curriculum can provide students with more time to hone their skills and gain experiences.
“Students find out about the sales program in classes when they’re juniors or seniors and they feel like it’s too late, and it is never too late. Obviously, you heard it here first, but I think it’s great when students can go into a four-year university, know that professional sales is a viable career and curriculum at school, and they have even more time to hone and get those experiences.”
Transcript:
Kristen Wisdorf: [00:00:00] Welcome back Hustlers to another episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers. I’m Kristin Wisdorf. It is your special campus series. Today I am joined with Jeremy Wood. Hi Jeremy. Welcome back to the podcast.
Jeremy Wood: Hey, Kristen. Happy to be
Kristen Wisdorf: here. We’re happy to have you. And, um, we’re super excited because today we have Chris Wilke, the director of the Ball State University Center for Professional Selling.
Welcome to the podcast
Chris Wilkey: Chris. Thank you very much. I’m happy to be here today and excited to chat with you guys for a little bit.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, we’re excited to chat with you as well. You have been doing a lot at Ball State now as the director of the Center for Professional Selling. Um, and I, you also went to Ball State as well, so you’ve probably seen the program grow and change over the years.
So we wanna dig into all of that. But before we start, let’s, um, let’s have you tell us your story. So, um, take 60 seconds, give or take no pressure on the timing here, and give us your [00:01:00] highlight reel. Who is Chris
Chris Wilkey: Wilkey? Okay, so going 60 seconds, my wife would yell at me. Oh, he can’t shut up in 60 seconds.
Um, but uh, basically I. Started at Ball State, uh, as a business student. Went in to the honors program, graduated, went into a sales role at a software company. The software company wasn’t doing so great, so ended up leaving, starting my own business from there, uh, with a college roommate of mine. Uh, we did that for about two years.
Went off and worked at an advertising agency in the digital department, and then I transitioned back to Ball State and I worked in the foundation, uh, helping with some digital sales, um, around fundraising. And then moved over to housing where I was the housing guy who wandered around, uh, residence halls and said, hi, here’s how big this ledge is and here’s how you can set up this bathroom and all of that.
And then when Covid hit, um, right beforehand, I had my, my child Daniel, and, um, In housing, it was strange because all of a sudden we sent everybody home. So, [00:02:00] um, I was already doing some teaching in the marketing department and I went over full-time there. Uh, so I did that for the last few years and when the sales center director role opened up, I had gone through the sales program, I had had the sales experience, I knew the university, uh, structure pretty well.
So it was an easy transition over to that so that I could kind of revamp that program. Uh, we had a lot of people retire or transfer out, uh, to run other centers, so, It was nice to get some, somebody in there who hopefully is gonna be there, uh, for a while.
Kristen Wisdorf: That’s great. It’s kind of cool to see the full circle, right?
Like starting out ball state and now being the director and you’ve not just been in the business school, you’ve worked in multiple departments within the university. So like if anyone knows how the university is run and what students care about, it’s probably you, I would say.
Chris Wilkey: Yeah, I feel like sometimes that you can wander around campus and I could stop and talk to about any person there and answer about all of their questions.
Um, and sometimes we go into meetings and it’s like, well, you’re not the [00:03:00] oldest one here. And I’m like, I know, but I’ve been around here longer than you have because I was a student when this program started and like I was a student body president back in the day, so I was in all the meetings and all that stuff.
So it’s like, well, that’s not exactly how this works. You need to talk to this person. I think this person’s still there, but she may have retired. It’s always a nice little fun thing to talk, talk with
Kristen Wisdorf: everybody. That’s awesome. Okay. Student body president at the university is a pretty big deal. Um, but before we dive into that, let’s take it way back.
Did you grow up in Indiana? Tell us about who you were back, middle school, high school, what you wanted to do when you grew up. All like the formative years of Chris Wilkey.
Chris Wilkey: So grew up in middle of the cornfield, uh, Tri-high area in just about 40 minutes south of, uh, ball state. Um, four walls in the high school, one of big square.
Uh, you drove your tractors to school if you had one. Um, I did business professionals of America when I was in high school, which turned
Kristen Wisdorf: Oh, Chris, you’re mute. You’re muted. [00:04:00] Sorry about that. That’s okay. I’ll edit it out.
Chris Wilkey: Cool. Um, so in high school started with business professionals of America. That’s kind of how I got into business. Um, and to be honest, we did it so that we could go to Indianapolis for free. Um, we did the one competition so you didn’t have to compete at the district level.
It was economic research team. And the first year we did it, um, we won the state level. And got sent over to Reno, Nevada to do the uh, national competition and ended up finishing second. So that was kind of the start there. Um, the next year we, I had gotten there on a desktop publishing, so that tells you how old that was.
Um, Microsoft publisher and we got to the national level in Dallas, but they had swine flu at that time, so they actually canceled that. Um, One, which was kind of strange. Um, so that was kind of middle school, high school. I was an academic, um, did some sports but was just subpar. Um, but that was kind of what I did.
And then that’s what [00:05:00] led me to apply for the Miller Honors Program, which was the like top of the top business students at Ball State going in. So I was able to land that and got a fluoride scholarship, uh, study abroad money, a computer, um, like specialized programming around what we did. Um, and then that kind of, Led into a lot of opportunities.
I got, I was drinking a beer in the shower one night and decided to do student body president after my roommate. About something. And the next thing I knew we won like three weeks later. So, um, a lot of strange oddities. And even the, the best part is that guy that I keep talking to, the college roommate is actually now a professor with me at Ball State.
So he helps teach the digital marketing aside. We actually just got approval to start an institute for digital marketing in addition to the sales center. So we’re kind of doing some dual things there right now.
Kristen Wisdorf: That is insane. You are like the most ambitious high school, college student, but also super normal.
Just like drinking a beer in your shower prompts you to become student body president. I love
Chris Wilkey: it. [00:06:00] It was, that’s just how we were. Um, I, it was, I always like to say, I’m not this weird smart people. I’m kind of the smart and I’ll figure out, you gimme every rule in the book. I’ll understand the game and we’ll play it to its advantage and have fun doing it.
And then, um, a lot of the stuff, honestly, I didn’t get into it because I wanted to, it’s just somehow I didn’t say no and then it ended up in my lap. It’s like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah. I didn’t know I was gonna do that. Um, so that’s just, this is just how life has always been and it’s, it’s always an interesting story.
Kristen Wisdorf: Well, I like it. I mean, I think it’s a good, um, I guess lesson for people. You just didn’t say no. Like you, you saw an opportunity and you just kind of went with it. And I think that’s, um, that’s how a lot of things happen in people’s careers. I think if they’re willing to kinda like, bet on themself and take a little bit of a risk.
So, um, Talk to us a little bit about school at Ball State for you. You said you were in the sales program, did you know you wanted to be in sales? I mean, I’m sure the business background in high school prompted you to wanna get into the sales, or excuse me, the the business [00:07:00] school. But, um, what was that kind of evolution like over those four years at Ball State?
So,
Chris Wilkey: um, we first started, I knew I had to do business that was tied to the scholarship. So no matter what I was going into, I was going to go that direction. I really liked marketing. Um, and then the econ side a little bit. Little bit, the econ side, I didn’t really see what the heck kind of job I’d land out of that.
So I thought, okay, worst case I need to go get a sales degree because I can at least sell myself if nothing else. And they seemed to have the most interactive and engaged professors. Um, with the honors program, we were always in classrooms with a lot of, uh, professors like the top of their game. So they were there, they were ready to be engaged, and the sales and marketing department had that.
Just the sales people were really on top of it. So that kind of brought me over that direction and I enjoyed it. I mean, I was doing some odds and ends through college. I was buying and selling textbooks and I was a DJ that I would do weddings. So some of it was stuff that I was kind of naturally doing anyway, and it was [00:08:00] fun to go in the classroom and go, well, that’s kind of common sense.
I like this. So that’s kind of the direction I went with it and I learned a lot of good things along the way. Um, but it kind of just, I think that’s just the direction it fell. It was between marketing and sales. There was just like three classes different. So I figured if I did the sales, I could probably sell myself as marketing if I wanted to go that way, or I could do the sales side.
Jeremy Wood: So Chris, with all those different sales roles that you had, what would you say was like your, your biggest win, uh, among those,
Chris Wilkey: those roles? So when I think back to the biggest win, um, it’s gonna sound silly, but um, what ended up happening was when we had the digital marketing consultancy business, I was doing the sales side of it and, um, I got a phone call from a contact in the Indianapolis American Marketing Association, said, Hey Chris, uh, my company needs some help doing some digital marketing for some clients.
Would you be interested in helping. [00:09:00] And we walked, I literally walked in in the meeting, think they thinking we may have a, like a contracting role. Um, and then we landed two full-time jobs for me and my business partner and sold the business. It was one of those, like, I didn’t even know what was happening.
And really what they were looking for were some, some people who knew the skills that could sell the perception and the the services of the digital marketing to their clients. And then like a week later, after we took the job, my first. Thing was I had to take off to Seattle to go do a social media presentation about the importance of using social media in a structured fashion and how basically our company could take and do that for them.
So I learned how to run like a water jet machine. Um, I read every book they had around that, um, and all their stuff. And I could tell you there’s a curve distance and they use a little sand and all this stuff in there, and. That was like my first few days on the job. So I think that would be kind of the silly one that’s like, I didn’t really know what we were doing at the time, and then all of a sudden ended up, well, here you [00:10:00] go.
Um, go to Seattle, go teach these people, which is one of their big clients, and just don’t screw it up. Have fun.
Kristen Wisdorf: Oh my gosh. What prompted you and your, um, your, uh, I think you said a college roommate, a partner at the time, to start your own business to begin with. I mean, that’s very entrepreneurial. Like how did that all come to be?
Chris Wilkey: We kept getting asked to do things and finally we decided that let’s just do this and charge money for this and we’ll figure it out as we go. It started with, um, we had some people wanting some social media content created and there were a lot of smaller businesses and, um, as we started doing that, then you would sit and listen to ’em as you would go do the sales calls and they’d go, we need a website.
Okay, well we don’t know how to do this. Let’s go figure out how to do it real quick. So, or we hire somebody to help out. And that’s kind of what started at the whole thing was we were just getting asked to do things. And I still do some of that from time to time. I mean, I live across the street from a golf course here, and I run their website for ’em in exchange.
I get free [00:11:00] golf all summer. So I do it as kind of a trade basis, but. It was just they were wanting something. Nobody, all the bigger companies didn’t wanna do smaller businesses. So we were like, okay, well we’re not, we don’t need that much to get by. We need to pay rent for an apartment. Um, that’s pretty much it.
And some food, we’ll figure it out and we’ll go from there. And I was teaching, um, Remedial math at a community college at that time too. So I was kind of doing the teaching and this was my full-time hustle. And then I kind of had the, the teaching that was, uh, the constant there.
Kristen Wisdorf: And so was that in Muncie when, where you, you were based when you were running that
Chris Wilkey: business?
Just south of it in the Pendleton area, but we used, we hit heavily, hit the Delaware County, Henry County. Okay. And the Madison County areas.
Kristen Wisdorf: And so it was mainly, like you said, like local like businesses, small medium businesses
Chris Wilkey: in the area. Yeah, we did golf courses, uh mm-hmm. Local restaurants. Um, a business consultant who was, uh, having us do some stuff with [00:12:00] us.
Um, we had one in Indianapolis. We were handling, we did some graphic design work for a company that helped with restaurants in that area. So it was just kind of all over the board. It was anybody that was willing to pay us in a skillset that we had, we’d figure out how to do it. I
Kristen Wisdorf: imagine you learned a fair amount during that time, um, running that business on how.
Um, other local business owners, um, act what they care about, what they pay attention to, et cetera. Like not just like, hey, learning how to like build a website, but just the interactions you had with the multiple different like stakeholders, people you were selling to.
Chris Wilkey: Most of the time. What I think I learned was they just don’t have enough time in their day.
They just don’t, and anything that is going to make them. Spend a lot of time thinking they’re, they, they’re really would rather source it out or find a way to trade for it or to make it easier because they just spend so much time trying to get the day-to-day done and they’re like, well, this could [00:13:00] really help you do X, Y, Z, and the common ones. I just don’t have the time.
I just don’t know how to, I don’t want to take the time to learn or I don’t want to, I just don’t have the time to learn. I’d love to do it. I know it’s really impactful. And then they’re like, but we don’t want to be like, ripped off by somebody who just tells us we’re doing this. So if you can give me a reasonable price on a service that I need, we’re gonna be best friends.
And then you can see those was like still one of the people that I worked with, he now owns a few buildings in town and an air conditioning thing. And he’ll come up to me, Hey Chris, um, do you wanna help me with like this new brewery I’m putting together? Like, I’d love to have you on here. Advice, uh, can you help me with this or that?
And it just became knowing the people and they’re really connected. And if you do a really good job for one of ’em, all of a sudden you open up the doors of their referrals because that’s how they get most of their business was referrals. So they know the power of that and are willing to share.
Jeremy Wood: Yeah, I think that’s, that’s a really good lesson is you, you have to, to value every conversation, every connection you have, because you, you sometimes don’t know how that’s gonna pay off for you as, [00:14:00] as your network grows and, um, You know, there becomes opportunities that maybe present themselves down the road because of those connections.
Chris Wilkey: Exactly. That’s great.
Jeremy Wood: What, um, ’cause so you, you mentioned you took a job at a, at a software company, uh, before starting up your, your business. Um, you obviously moved on from that company. Could you tell us about, uh, maybe what led to you choosing that role in, in the first place and um, uh, kind
Chris Wilkey: of how you ended up moving on.
Okay, so yeah, that’s, that’s an interesting story cause I give it to all my students in class. So when I was, I was dead set. I wanted to work in downtown Indianapolis. I wanted to work for a high, a commission and base salary company in the tech field. That’s what I wanted to do. And actually when I landed the job, it wasn’t an entry level position.
It was one of those mid-tier positions and it was like an eight step interview process. And like I read every page of their website, every white paper they had, I watched every video. [00:15:00] I could tell you more about their product than I think three fourths of their sales staff knew about their product. Um, and I think that’s once we got there, once I got there, I think that was the big issue that I had, is that the sales staff they had, um, was really not educated about their product at all.
Um, they, they were there because they had connections or they had done sales or they were trying to build stuff out, which was really great. But I would go into meetings and go, why don’t you just do it like this? Like you could, your software could do this really cool, and you should be selling. Like, no, we don’t do it like that.
Like, but I think you’re missing out. It’s like, this is. They’re, they’re telling you this is what they need and you’re telling them that you can’t do it, but you can. Well, we don’t sell it like them. And so after about three months, what ended up happening is they weren’t doing very well. So they actually went to their top, their last five hires and said, well, you can either take a demotion or we can find a new job.
So that was kind of the incentive of like, see you by, um, and their life, their, uh, sales cycle was about two years. So somebody knew he was gonna take. About a year or two years to get something sold. So the odds [00:16:00] of me making a sale in that time were slim to none. Uh, so we had a few good possible leads, but nothing I thought was gonna pan out.
So that’s what kind of shifted to that digital marketing. I was doing the DJing as well, so my weekends were booked with weddings and then was starting to get into the world of selling online and blogging and digital content there. So it was kind of a fun little transition over.
Kristen Wisdorf: Wow. Okay. So I mean that’s nuts.
It’s a two year sales cycle. I imagine when you took that job originally, cause that was your first job out of college, right? Yeah. I imagine you didn’t expect to be there a short amount of time. You probably put in a lot of research and all that time to interview and land the job. Cause you expected. To be there for a while.
I think, um, how people kind of roll with the punches and handle the evolution of their career is, um, that’s kind of part of life. But I’m sure it also was like maybe a little scary or surprising. Um, like how did you handle the [00:17:00] transition and like, I guess, what is the lesson you tell your students now about that experience you had?
Chris Wilkey: Well, I, what I try to teach them is, it’s okay to make a mistake. What you think you’re going to do outta college is not what you’re gonna end up probably doing 10 years from now. Um, I would love to say that’s the case, but it’s probably not. If you would’ve told me I’d be running the sales center, I would’ve looked at you like, what the hell are you talking about?
Like, this is not, not me. Um, I’ll never be a… this is not it. And now looking back at it, I’m sitting there going, why didn’t I do this sooner? Um, and it was an evolution along the uh, the way and I always thought I wanted to live in Indy well, I don’t really like traffic. I don’t really like cities.
My town, I can walk in, I can drive in, and I gotta worry about the idiot who doesn’t know how to use a stop sign. Um, and that’s about the worst thing I had to deal with in town. So, uh, when I had to walk like 15 minutes from my parking lot to my job every day, I had a 30 minute commute back and forth just to walk, plus an hour drive back and forth.
I was going insane. And, um, what I have learned over the [00:18:00] time is like, Another, another trigger point that kind of happened in there is my younger brother at the age of like 26, had a stroke. So you put the family history of health in there with stress. You, you start realizing, you know what? Life isn’t always about.
Uh, are you at the best job you’re gonna make? The fanciest things at, it’s what makes you happy. And it was, okay, let’s stop worrying about if I need to be doing this job that’s gonna land me a possible this or that. Let’s go do something you have fun with. And that’s what kind of led me the direction of ball state.
I took a big pay cut to go there, but the stress and the time off was a big thing. The, the peripheral benefits were huge. And then the teaching I, this morning I spent three hours watching dinosaurs with my kid. It’s great. Um, I could tell you every dinosaur name under the sun and if blah, blah, blah with them, but it’s all about what you value, and I thought it was a lot of money at first.
Then I realized I don’t mind getting a lot of money, but there’s more than one way to make that, that’s not super stressful.
Jeremy Wood: Yeah. That, that’s, [00:19:00] that’s a great lesson. And I, I would imagine that some of the students, uh, aren’t expecting maybe to, to hear that and when they’re thinking about sales as a, as a career path initially.
But, uh, hearing that story probably resonates and, and gives some perspective that they maybe weren’t, uh,
Chris Wilkey: expecting to hear. They always look at me kind of strange when I do it, like what you’re telling me to not like. Yeah, but I’ll have, I had one student come up, we just sit on a sales competition and he had two offers on the table, um, from prospective customer or client or companies that were there.
And he goes, well, this one makes more, but I think I like this one better. I said, you answered your question right there, man. Like, go with the one you think you like better. Like, yeah, you can make more there, but if you don’t, if you’re not gonna stay there and don’t like what you’re doing, you’re gonna hate it.
Take the little bit less pay with the better benefits and go with it. And I’m like, really? I’m like, Yeah, that’s, that’s what you should be being told. Like I know people want you to get as much money as possible, but take the company that’s the [00:20:00] best for you, the best fit, and you’re gonna be way happier in the long run than just having the nice new car that you never get to drive because you’re always on the road doing something.
Kristen Wisdorf: Definitely. And I think, um, you know, surrounding yourself with like the right people and the right culture fit for you will lead to that, you know, sales income in the long run too. You know, if that’s really what you value. You gotta also kind of set yourself up for. For the long games. So let’s talk a little bit about the Ball State program.
And you were in the sales program when you were in school and now you, you headed up. So how have things changed, like between when you were in it then and how the program has now? Like, walk us through the evolution as you’ve personally seen it.
Chris Wilkey: So when I started it was in, its like prime. So, um, when I was a student, we had Ramon Avila, Scott Inks, Stacy Schetzel, Joe Chapman, some really great, um, they kind of built the center.
And if you look back at the ball state history, we were like one of the first three sales centers around. We helped form the [00:21:00] University Sales Center Alliance. Um, those names. Hold, uh, a little bit, not a weight, but they’re respectable for their contributions in that community. So it was weird all of a sudden coming into it.
As a student of that, um, I always knew that there’d be a time that something like that would happen. I didn’t expect it that soon. But when I was a student, they were doing the sales competitions that we had, the big sales career fair. We were having speakers into class all the time. They were doing, uh, interactions with our local sports teams in Indianapolis to sell tickets.
It was a really big program and uh, when I took over, basically what happened is Ramona had retired. Stacy has moved to Tampa to run their sales center down there. Scott moved to Kennesaw to do the sales center there and is the president of the University Sales Center Alliance. And we’ve got, um, Joe Chapman who just retired.
So the whole makeup and the core group of that had kind of moved on and the sales center wasn’t doing bad, but Covid really wrecked everything. [00:22:00] Um, everything in sales was face-to-face, uh, events. So it was like, Okay. We haven’t done anything in a year and a half because we didn’t know what we could do or couldn’t do.
Then Joe retired and it was like, okay, let’s just start this back, and at least I had the frame of reference of what they had done before. So basically I started in like middle of September and we kind of took about a month and a half to talk to all of our partners and our students to figure out what they were looking for.
What kind of events do you guys wanna do? What kind of educational opportunities? What kind of recruitment opportunities? I think I took like nineties Zoom calls during that time and meetings with students and I was just trying to figure out what we needed this to look like and we kind of, kind of revamped it all up so we, um, Not having my history in at Ball State.
A lot of the stuff that would’ve taken some time I knew how to do. So like, okay, let’s go do this, let’s do this, let’s do this. And we were able to get it back up and running, uh, pretty quickly to at least two [00:23:00] thirds of what it used to be. And with the summer to plan, we’re back up to a full slate of events and activities and the partners are very excited and happy.
So it’s, it’s. Growing. I have a feeling in five years I’ll look back and go, how’d you even do that? Or what that looks like. But we’re, we’re getting there. We’re having a lot of hands-on events and we’re getting the partners to come to campus and the students are interacting. We were able to go to three or four sales competitions and it’s just, we’re starting to rebuild that brand a little bit.
It was never fully gone, but it was kind of just a little hampered with the situation of Covid and the transition between everybody.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, I mean that’s like a true changing of the guard when all those people either move on or retire and then you add in what’s normal at universities, which is the students turning over every four years.
And that impacts things too. Cause at a lot of sales programs, you know, Students are the ones telling their younger classmen or their friends to join. And so it is, it’s a lot and it’s constantly evolving and almost like [00:24:00] recycling. You gotta, you, you have to constantly be getting those new folks involved, which I imagine is exciting.
Um, but can be a, a big effort, especially coming out of COVID
Chris Wilkey: yeah, see I’m a huge Packers fan, so it was like we lost our Aaron Rodgers and he’s gone with good, good riddance, have fun in New York. Um, but at that point in time everybody goes, you’re rebuilding. Well, it takes a little bit of time. You had to fill in that back end of your, your draft classes.
You’re putting ’em in, you’re grabbing people that are gonna fit here. You’re doing this different, you put the new coach and you gotta take some time to figure it out. It’s not gonna be this smooth operating machine the first year, but you’re also not gonna be completely not understanding what’s going on.
So like with most of my stuff is my focus has been, we had seniors graduating. So I was working with them, but I was really heavily working on trying to recruit with freshmen, sophomores because I knew the importance of trying to build the strong base for the program. So we do a lot of stuff with living, learning communities, uh, where we’re in the residence halls, working with them, and that was my time in housing.
So it was a [00:25:00] pretty easy shift over there. And then I also was lucky enough to have a really, really strong sophomore who is my, uh, student assistant in the office, and she’s kind of led the way. So now we’re building stuff around her. So we look at our sales team. I have a freshman who’s coming in who’s already the team, he’s not even on campus yet, but I’ve met with their family.
I’m like, Hey, I want you, let’s get you into this. So I can start developing him as a freshman so that when we get to senior year, we’re gonna kick some butt, my hope, um, and kind of build him along the way. But I know that I couldn’t do that the first year. Um, we went to a sales competition and I’m like, I don’t even know what we’re doing here.
I wish I would’ve done this as a student. And you’re like, okay, great. And then, We, we end up going and we don’t do so hot. And you’re like, but we learned, so next year it’s gonna be okay. We can really compete. And the same with a lot of our events. Um, we had kind of a model there, um, but it was, how do we do this?
And after listening to all of the partners and employers and people who wanted to come to campus, how do we integrate what they really want? [00:26:00] And I think you had to take the role of a salesperson there because it would, I could just say, Hey, I wanna do it like this. This is the way it’s been done. But they’re saying no, we want more informal and activities with our students.
So like we rent out a golf course simulator that has putt putt and at a bar in the back and it’s got some games where you can shoot zombies and play soccer. And we say, you know what? Bring your people. Come here and network with our students for four hours. In an informal environment, we’ll do a career fair.
But if you want that informal, we’ll do that too.
Jeremy Wood: That’s a, that’s a really good point that, you know, even when you weren’t, you’re not in a, a directly selling role. You’re still needing to apply sales skills in, in your everyday role when it came to asking the right questions, actively listening to your, you know, your, your customers, um, to be able to offer them a better product, a better experience.
Chris Wilkey: Yeah, and I, I think that was the, the initial calls were just me trying to figure out what the heck everybody wanted. Um, we had a list of [00:27:00] perks that we gave our partners and it was like, Hey, is this really what you guys want or is this just what was done like 10 years ago that we kind of kept around to do this?
And they’re like, well, we would love to do this small, informal event. I’m like, done. Let’s just go do it. And I think I always have to step back is when I was in the professional world, everything moves so fast. Academics, everything moves very slow. So what I like to do is, since I know how that operates, I can make things move faster because I know the rules of the game.
So like, if we wanted to do an event, it was like, okay, well eye contact risk and risk management and say, Hey, um, can I do this? I didn’t ask seven people to get there. And I go, yeah, just don’t chop any toes off. And it’s like, okay, we want ax throwing. And then I get brought back in. They’re like, Chris, Did you think about this at all?
I’m like, yeah, I contacted them. They, and they’re like, they said yes. I’m like, yeah, they only care if it’s kids, animals or this. And I got told, just don’t do that again. Please. I don’t want somebody to, you’re giving them alcohol. I didn’t give ’em alcohol, but they could purchase [00:28:00] alcohol and they’re throwing sharp objects.
Like, really? Is that? You think that’s the best idea? It’s like, ah, it’s fuck. But there was some things there. It was like you could quickly ramp that up and. That’s what they were looking for. Cause they’d already been a part of the program. Students were getting ready to graduate. They wanted jobs. These recruiters wanted to interact with the students, and we needed to do something now, not figure out four months from now when it’s already too late, of how to get those connections started.
So
Jeremy Wood: what would you say for folks listening who maybe aren’t in a sales program yet, um, what would you say are some of the, the skills or, or traits and attributes that make someone really successful in not only your program but in, in a career, in, in sales?
Chris Wilkey: I think the biggest thing that I’ve, I’ve tried, I’m, I’m learning about as I’m teaching this more and interacting, you don’t have to be the smartest person out there.
Smart ones work. People who get Cs in classes just as good if not better sometimes than that. A lot of times what you’re looking for is someone who’s [00:29:00] empathetic, someone who can listen, someone who’s a problem solver, someone who has, and I think the one I keep getting from all of the recruiters and the students is grit.
Someone who has that grit that is willing to do what is needed to be done to make sure they hit their goals. And I think you’ve gotta have a little bit of the entrepreneurial spirit to go out and do some things as well. And I think you gotta have a little bit of a thicker skin to be told. No. Um, one of my favorite students, um, I call ’em my little goofball.
Um, he was, He was in class, wasn’t the brightest. I’d read his papers. I’m like, come on dude, you can do better than this. And he bugged me to go to a sales competition. And then he goes, he sent me this email, came to my office, and he’s like, I want this. Like I want to go. And I’m like, okay, fine. You wore me down.
Like yes. I’ll say yes for you to go. I don’t know why you want to go, but sure. He landed a job. He was like, he landed his job, he’s going full-time. It’s like, this is awesome. But he never really gave up. He had gone to one with me. We had a good time. He learned a few things, but he loved it so [00:30:00] much that he said, I want to go to this.
And he kept pestering me enough. And he was one that you would walk around and I was like, I want that kid. I want that kid and everybody he talked to wanted that kid because he could go talk to anybody. And it wasn’t like he had to be over the top outgoing, but he could hold a conversation with anybody and he would listen and he would follow up and he, like, he would shake their hands.
He’d help them carry stuff out from the career fair. That’s just, it was the Midwest nice with a little bit of grit and a little bit of just that. Um, I know what I want. I’m just gonna keep going until I get it, but not over the top with that. Well, I
Kristen Wisdorf: love that. And that’s the beauty of sales in these sales competitions is a lot of times these, their students, their skills, they’re showcased in a different way, right?
Like what might not be a skill in a paper or in test taking. They have it in other areas. And these, uh, sales programs with experiential sales activities give students a platform to show those other skills that maybe wouldn’t show up in a classroom [00:31:00] setting, traditional classroom setting.
Chris Wilkey: Yeah, I have one girl who’s, she’s getting ready to graduate in July.
Um, she was a fashion major. She was in, she was in my sales class cause it was the only thing open and they, she goes, yeah, sure, I’ll take it. So she was in there and I plugged her to death. I said, you need to do some of this stuff. She sat right in front of me. So she started on one of our sales competitions, went to uh, one in, went to another one with us and then competed in our internal one.
And I just read her last paper in the class. She’s like, I don’t think you realized you changed my life a little bit because I didn’t know I even wanted to do sales. She goes, I thought it was that like icky, used car salesman kind of thing. But really it’s actually helping people and listening and it just being what, who I am.
And it was like, Okay, that that’s what you need. Sometimes you don’t realize it, and even if you don’t use the skills, I saw her, she got dead last in a competition, and then she got second in the internal competition. Her outgoingness and nature and just confidence shifted. It was [00:32:00] insane. She also was, we flew Delta back and got a $500 Visa gift card cause she bumped a flight back.
So she was excited. She won no matter what happened on that trip. Um, but she was, she really came into herself at that point. Um, she was very shy and then she would sit there and she’d have a blast chatting in class and kind of hopped in that role, which was really interesting because, It just took that little bit of hands-on or the experiential learning to really push her to become her.
It didn’t do anything different, just gave her opportunities to become more of her.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah. A platform and an outlet. And I think that’s why it’s great also that you’re focusing on recruiting underclassmen like, uh, incoming freshmen and sophomores into the program. Because oftentimes when we talk to professors, we hear that.
Students find out about the sales program in classes when they’re juniors or seniors and they feel like it’s too late and it’s, it, it is never too late. Obviously, you hear, heard it here first, but I think it’s great when students can go into a four year university, know that professional sales is a viable [00:33:00] career and curriculum at school, and they have even more time to hone and, you know, get those experiences.
Just like the woman you, you just told a story about.
Chris Wilkey: And see my biggest, not regret, but I look back now, if I would’ve known what they were doing in the sales center when I was a little bit younger at school, I probably would’ve done all of this. Uh, but I never even really fully understood that. So now I try to get with the students and go, Hey, You wanna go on a free trip, like I will take you to where you can go interview with and talk with a bunch of companies looking to hire you.
And I will pay for your flight. I’ll pay for your hotel and your food and I’ll get you outta school. So you can go and, oh, you wanna go play top golf with a bunch of people looking to hire you? I’ll bust you down. Um, you can go down there, have fun. And they’re like, what’s the catch? I’m like, there’s no catch.
It’s just these, these companies. This is school. This is school. I am, I have no catch here. My job is to spend money on you. To help you possibly land a job with the people who are interested in hiring you. If you want it, great. If not, take advantage of the perks that are being [00:34:00] offered. And you may, you may never know the person you sit and talk with that you don’t know could become the, your best friend, your best customer, or your future boss or something else throughout there.
And it’s like you’re telling him that. No, this sounds too good. I’m like, no, I’m telling you guys. But I didn’t realize it at the time either. So that’s one of my things is I really try to push that to say, you never know what these will lead to. If I didn’t take the sales program, I wouldn’t be in this spot today.
So if I didn’t even see that 10 years down the road. So it’s, it’s interesting how, uh, just one event could change that.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, absolutely. I, I, I’m in the same boat as you. I, um, got more familiar with my sales program when I was an upperclassman and really, really regret or wish I had known the information sooner.
So, but I know. You professors and directors of sales programs are trying hard to get more and more students. And I think, you know, from when we were in school versus now, the sales curriculum and sales programs are [00:35:00] absolutely much more, um, I guess available. They’re growing. And I think to your point about misconceptions is students and their, you know, Other faculty and maybe their parents and influencers are definitely becoming more and more, um, I guess hip to sales as a viable long-term career too.
Chris Wilkey: Exactly. I think there’s a little education there that’s needed for the parents in particular and the students at the younger age of saying, Hey, They’re not gonna be that greasy salesman that you’re thinking of in your head. These people have very good careers that, um, are with good companies that make good money, and this is a really good opportunity.
Yeah, you may want to do this kind of job, but have you ever considered this? Let us show you. Uh, one of them we’re getting ready to do this next year is we’re taking. About 40 students, and we’re taking to four different locations in Indianapolis to show them what a day in the life of a salesperson will look like.
We make them go in one of our classes on a ride along with a salesperson, so they see [00:36:00] what it looks like. It’s more, I won’t say just. Strictly to learn about it, but they don’t know what the profession looks like. Um, I’m lucky enough to have a father-in-law who does sales. I know what he does. He sits around and takes people to lunch all day and listens to audiobooks in the car.
But he’s a problem solver. He takes phone calls, he’s answering emails, he’s doing everything and getting the students to understand that’s a job and it’s a really good job. Um, and like, yeah, your parents may have worked at. Fact that was, they’ve worked there 35 years, they’re getting their retirement.
But they were always, they were busy. They had the weird shift changes and this and that, but did you ever think of a job that you’re nine to five or eight to five and you get your vacations and you have a little extra money and this and that. It’s just hard to get them to understand that that’s a, that’s a real thing.
Kristen Wisdorf: Absolutely. Well, speaking of your students, What are your students, especially the last, like maybe year or two, what are they most interested in? Like, what types of roles are they taking? Are they staying in Indiana? Are they venturing out of Indiana? Like, talk to us a little bit about [00:37:00] what is, I guess, um, most interesting and exciting for your current students.
Chris Wilkey: So our students, and, and I think I’m starting to, as I’ve chatted more and more with the recruiters and where they’re landing, our students are white collar workers and blue collar society. We grew up in this area. A lot of ’em are, are, are, we’re central Indiana to East central Indiana. We get a heavy contingency of people there.
We get some from the Chicago region, some down by Louisville. So we kind of are conglomerate, but we’re about 80% in-state students. Um, and we’re not your IUs. We’re not gonna be going off to the coast doing high tech sales or big medical sales. That’s just not us. Uh, we’re not your Purdue doing the engineering and the farming.
We’re kind of more, um, industrial manufacturing. We get some that go into the world of tech, but it’s more of like the, not the big name techs. It’s kind of the. More of how those applications actually help people. Um, so what we find is it’s more in that, that realm. Um, and like I have a student that just is going to go sell rebuilt transmissions and [00:38:00] engines.
I have a student who sells plastics. Um, we’ve got a student who is going off and we get a lot of insurance interest in our area. We have a pretty good risk manage management program. So we get a lot of people looking for that. Um, we get some in that tech area that are going off and are selling to that end user.
Most of ’em are staying in Indiana. Uh, we have about, if I’m looking on average, probably about 70% of ’em are gonna stay in Indiana. About 30% are looking to relocate. That’s a rough straw pole from this year. Uh, so I don’t know how much that looks at a lot of them in Indiana, Fort Wayne area, um, and the region up around Chicago.
Uh, So I have a lot that wanna go back that way. Um, and then I have about 20% of the students who go, I want out of this place. I want someplace warm. I want to go see the world. And those are the ones that are traveling now. Uh, a lot of ’em like to go out west. We get a lot down to Florida too, so they want to go where someplace warm and doesn’t have the snow.
Um, but that’s kind of our thing. Our niche is they want to do the more relationship based selling. They’re not the big, [00:39:00] they’ll, they’ll do some hunting in trying to get new clients and they’re trained on how to do that, but they’re really good at that long-term relationship. Um, I think that’s just something about the students ball state of tracks.
Um, and the sales program just kind of amplifies what they’re really good at already.
Kristen Wisdorf: That’s great. Well, we’re gonna play, uh, a game. We’re gonna ask you a question, throw something at you, just answer the first thing that comes to your mind. Um, so. If you could put anyone on Mount Rushmore, Adam to the the four guys up there, who would you put on Mount Rushmore and
Chris Wilkey: why?
Hmm. Okay. If I could put somebody up there, you know, um, I have to do this for my kiddo. There’s, we watch a dinosaur train the show on pbs and there’s this paleontologist named Dr. Scott, who he just finds all the dinosaur bones in the rocks, teaches the kid. I think I have to put Dr. Scott up there just because I would know who the heck it was and no one else would besides all the kids.
And they go, [00:40:00] Dr. Scott. Probably something like that.
Kristen Wisdorf: Actually, I think that would be a hit, because I recall going to Mount Rushmore when I was younger and there were a lot of children, and so it would, you’d have a lot of fans. It just wouldn’t be the, you know, the adults.
Chris Wilkey: Yeah, I mean everybody, you could put any, anybody up there and you know, it’s cool.
Fine, they’ve probably done something great for the world, but if you could get a kid to smile, that’s worth it in itself there. Completely agree. Chris.
Jeremy Wood: All right. Which, which feeling would you say is stronger for you? Loving to win or hating
Chris Wilkey: to lose? Uh, you know, I’m, I have a younger brother and he’s, he’d be the one hating to lose.
He just doesn’t wanna lose ever. I love to win. I’m not very good at competitions. Now I say that trivia, I’m gonna, I’m gonna probably have a good chance at winning, uh, certain games of skill like that I’m real good at. I’ll figure out the games, but it’s because I like to win, not because I don’t like to lose.
If I lose, okay, whatever. I played golf the [00:41:00] other day, I lost. It’s fine. We’ll go again and try again the next time. But I really like the feeling when you win.
Kristen Wisdorf: I hear that. I don’t think I’ve ever played golf and won. Um, So what, okay. What is your superpower, or what would you say your world class at Chris?
Chris Wilkey: Finding deals. If you ask my parents, they always say it’s like they’re pulling a Chris. Um, finding deals in cool spots. So like, um, if there’s a workaround in a system or a deal of like this, like this morning I rebooked my flights that I’m taking with my wife and we saved $44 and got a flight credit.
Why? Because I had nothing else I was doing and I thought I’d checked the prices and I hit the change button and made it work. I’m just always looking at things in a different way. It’s like I’m looking at, I know the box and I can stand outside of it and go, well, there’s something cool in this corner.
It’s just being able to take yourself out and look at the whole system in place, and I guess that’s kind of. My [00:42:00] skillset of sorts. And I’m really good at like, just passively listening and picking things up and remembering them.
Kristen Wisdorf: That is awesome. I’ve never heard that. Um, like superpower. I think that’s such a good one.
That’s great. Uh, well thank you so much for joining us, uh, on the podcast today. Chris, we loved hearing about your story and everything you’re going at Ball State or doing at Ball State for the students and, um, Kinda revamping that program. It’s very, very exciting and we hope to see you at one of those competitions coming up and I guess we should end with chirp True.
Chris Wilkey: Yeah, sure. True. I like that. I love to see you guys here as well. Um, I always enjoy it and I appreciate you taking the time to learn a little bit more about the Ball State Sales Center.
Kristen Wisdorf: Absolutely.