Campus Series: Don Thacker – Preparedness Equals Success
Agility is a key trait in remaining competitive and successful while in the workforce. This is a valuable lesson that Don Thacker instills in his students as he learned it firsthand throughout his many different roles while working in local wholesale distribution for 18 years.
In this episode of the Campus Series Podcast, Don, now a senior lecturer at Kent University discusses the progressive learning stage that comes with each new role you may explore, the advantage of being agile and adaptable, and the importance of being properly trained for sales much like a football player must be trained before playing in the Super Bowl.
Guest-At-A-Glance
💡 Name: Don Thacker
💡 What he does: Don is a senior lecturer at Kent State University.
💡 Company: Kent State University
💡Noteworthy: Don received his undergraduate degree in business administration, with an emphasis on both marketing and management, from Cedarville University in 1986. After graduation, he began a career with K-Mart Corporation, serving in several managerial and marketing positions. Professor Thacker then moved on to a marketing manager’s position with a local wholesale distribution company, staying for eighteen years. While there, he completed his degree in advanced marketing at Kent State University. In 1998, Don began as an adjunct professor of Marketing but later joined the faculty as a full-time member at Kent State University at the Stark campus in August 1999.
💡 Where to find Don: LinkedIn l Website
Key Insights
⚡ With each new role comes a progressive learning stage. Working for 18 years with a local wholesale distribution company, Don distributed 4,500 different items daily to various customers, from grocery stores to schools. He was also a marketing manager for the company and took on some buying roles. Don explains how he adapted to each new role that required a different approach. “It’s like any other position that you may take on; it’s a progressive stage. You have to work through it, step by step; you go with what you’re probably comfortable with first, and then you build from there.”
⚡ It’s hard to teach people agility. Changing roles in his career, Don has learned to be very agile and teaches this to his students. He emphasizes that teaching people what it means to be agile is difficult, but he shares his experience to help students figure that out. “If I say, ‘You need to be more agile,’ a lot of people don’t tell you how to be more agile. But there are certain things that you have to learn to be adaptive in, and there are certain approaches to be adaptive in. And so, one of the things that I’ve been able to really benefit on behalf of the student is taking some of those experiences that I’ve had and putting them directly into the roleplaying, into the day of teaching, and saying, ‘How would you deal with this? If this came up, what would you do?’ And allow them to then even throw in some innovative ideas on top of that.”
⚡ The better prepared you are, the more successfully you will handle things. As a co-advisor at Kent State University for Professional Sales, Don prepares students for future careers. He believes that business is very similar to sports in that training is essential and it can prepare us for all situations. “Business is very much like a competitive environment; you have to do it through practice. You’re never going to get better at throwing a ball unless you throw it at least a million times. Like, we’re heading to Super Bowl weekend; this weekend. Patrick Mahomes didn’t just suddenly decide to walk on the field and go, ‘I think I’ll be a quarterback.’ The salesperson just can’t walk into the field office and go, ‘I think I’ll go into sales.'”
Episode Highlights
From Marketing School to Sales and Back to Marketing
“There were a lot of road stops along the way. When I first got out of school, it was more management than it was marketing, but through the series of steps that I took with the corporation I was with at that time — and it was generally retail — I found myself about two and a half years in because I was willing to take risk inside of the buyer’s office. And then, I became a project manager, and from the project manager then, I took on additional responsibilities and started running things on behalf of people. At 20-some years old, I’m opening up a brand new, large footprint location on my own. I’m the project manager kind of thing. From there, then it was saying there’s really no limit. Going into sales, some people desire to be in management. There are other people that go into management, and they’re like, ‘No, this is not at all what I want to be.’ Some people back out, and it comes down to your own personal characteristics. What really motivates you?”
Leadership Management – Mistakes and Learnings
“Probably my biggest mistake was when I was young, and I was given those rules, a responsibility to oversee people. Having been in sports, I treated it very much like a sport, where I’m just going to come in there and just demand it’s gotta be my way. And that’s probably one of the biggest things that you learn in terms of leadership management or even sales management. There are going to be unique ways to approach problems, situations, and you gotta take a moment to realize that somebody has a different perspective. There may be times that you’re going to have to get down to, ‘This is the way it’s gotta be, I’m sorry,’ but there also has to be some give. And that’s one of the probably biggest mistakes I made early on, expecting like, ‘This is just the way it is. You’re just going to have to do it this way.’ And you learn from that; you learn to become a better manager.”
Picking a Job Market
“Look at companies that are growing; look at companies that are moving in progression with the rest of the world. What are areas where you see progress being made, innovation being captured? Where can you find a role in those companies? And then, secondarily, look at their culture, and is that something you want to be a part of going forward? You’re going to live that every day, that culture, so you gotta be ready to invest in it, welcome it, and again, look for that opportunity because you don’t want to be in a stagnant, or even more so, a company that’s going backward.
[…] You gotta understand what it is that you’re looking for and understand what your limitations are. I always tell my students, ‘Let’s say that you want a social media role; have you had any experience of social media other than just simply using it? In other words, do you have the critical capabilities, first of all? Secondly, do you have the driving willingness?”
From the Corporate World to Academia
“I did that (an adjunct instructor) for like a year and a half before I went full-time. It was an interesting transition because I’m thinking to myself, ‘I’m pretty comfortable here, but what new challenges would come with it if I decided to go down this road?’ And one of the things that bugged me about business at that time was that I saw a lot of people coming in here and interviewing for positions, and they didn’t seem to be confident about their skills; they didn’t seem to have everything that I thought they should have. And I saw myself in them saying, ‘Can I impact that somewhere? Can I do that on behalf of those students to make it a little bit more clear vision for them?’ It sounds almost too good, but that’s how it came to be; it was just a weird circumstance. I never intended to be in academia.”
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Don Thacker: As a salesperson, as a previous sales manager, you have to find out what the individual’s goals are and try to match that because not everybody is driven by the almighty dollar, there are other people that are looking for lifestyle and looking for other things, and we gotta, we gotta be able to adapt and change to that respect of what is it that they’re looking for and what, what keeps people moving.
[00:01:08] Kristen Wisdorf: Welcome back, hustlers. It is Tech Sales is for Hustlers, your special campus series. I am your host, Kristen Wisdorf. I’m joined by Jeremy Wood. Hey, Jeremy.
[00:01:17] Jeremy Wood: Hey, Kristen, happy Friday.
[00:01:19] Kristen Wisdorf: Happy Friday, it is a Friday, uh, glorious day, uh, the day that we’re recording this, and we’re very excited because our guest today is Don Thacker, who’s a Sales Professor, Senior Lecturer at Kent State University. Welcome to the podcast, Don.
[00:01:33] Don Thacker: Hey, thanks for having me.
[00:01:34] Kristen Wisdorf: We are very excited to have you. I know we’ve run into each other at sales competitions over the years, and so we’re really excited to dive into your background, your experience, and what you’re doing at Kent State University, preparing the next generation of sales professionals.
[00:01:49] So, we like to get this thing going, the way I start, I actually had an interview yesterday, and I start, I swear I, I say this in every episode, but it’s true. I start all of my interviews this way, and it is, take 60 seconds and just, give or take, and give us your highlight reel, tell us about Don Thacker.
[00:02:08] Don Thacker: Okay. So, highlight reel, you know, I’m from, uh, a little town in Ohio named Youngstown, Ohio. Uh, grew up in very much a steelworker’s town, uh, my goal while growing up was to get out of town, I did not wanna be a steelworker, and nor did my folks want me to be a steelworker. So, as I started looking at universities and colleges, I looked at really what I felt most comfortable at, and that led me towards management slash marketing, of which in my undergrad degree, I pursued both of those together,
[00:02:39] and it was at Cedarville University, quite a, quite a different university than I am. And then I went into the world of retail following my graduation, just because it was bad economic times and you had to find a job somewhere and get started. After stay, staying a stint there and going through a variety of positions,
[00:02:58] I decided to leave that organization, and I decided to go back to grad school in pursuit of education, but I needed to make some income, and having that marketing background, ended up finding a position in sales, and that’s what kind of kicked it off really in sales for me, um, I started working for a wholesale distribution company where I distributed 4,500 different items at any given day to a variety of different customers.
[00:03:25] And because of that, you had to always make a customized approach for them, whether it was a convenience store or grocery store or school, you had to make a customized approach in terms of the products and service, services that you offered them. So, we did do services as well, like POS systems and some of the other elements that would go with
[00:03:43] being in that position, and that’s really what kicked it off. And then after, um, an 18-year career with them, I decided to come into academia full-time.
[00:03:52] Kristen Wisdorf: Wow, that, okay, 18 years working with, uh, you said wholesale distribution, like, selling up to or over 4,500 products, I mean, you mentioned convenience stores to schools, I imagine
[00:04:07] that you’re con, like, you had to be very agile and constantly changing your approach, like you mentioned. How did you jump into a role like that, learn everything you needed to know about the products and who, who you were selling to, like, how did you wrap your head around all of that very early on?
[00:04:24] Don Thacker: I think it’s like any other position that you may take on, it’s a progressive stage, I mean, you have to work through it, step by step. You go with what you’re probably comfortable with first, and then you build from there, and, you know, in that role, not just the sales role, I became the marketing manager of the company, and I took on some buying roles as well.
[00:04:44] So, I was dealing with Fortune 100 companies and buying directly from them and learning how to represent my customer to those people and trying to really choose and navigate what’s the best process, but even more so, what’s the best marketing program to make them successful, make them prosperous because if they weren’t going to be successful and prosperous, we weren’t going to be either.
[00:05:07] Kristen Wisdorf: What was the training like back when you got into a role like that all those years ago? Like, how did you, how did the company or you set yourself up to succeed early on?
[00:05:17] Don Thacker: So, it was very cool because it actually gave me an opportunity, probably unlike some other people, I got to work with other organizations and actually developed my skill with them. So, for example, I actually did go through a Hershey’s USA sales training process. So, we went out of town, we stayed overnight in Texas at a ranch, and we went through a wholesales training process with Hershey USA.
[00:05:47] Kristen Wisdorf: And I imagine Hershey was one of the products that was part of your, yet what you were selling, oh, okay.
[00:05:54] Don Thacker: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:05:55] Kristen Wisdorf: So, you got to learn
[00:05:56] Don Thacker: So, I got to be able to see sales from different aspects, not just mine, but also the different corporate, you know, leaders in the United States at that time.
[00:06:06] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s very unique, and I imagine it could be overwhelming to some people, but I think your comment about it’s a progressive stage probably resonates, you know, while a lot of, you know, new-in-their-sales-career folks, maybe former students, they’re not selling 4,500 things right away, right? They’re probably sell, if they’re in technology especially, like, that’s something that’s can be really hard to wrap your head around, it takes a long time to learn, and your prospects know more about tech and their environment than you do.
[00:06:34] So, I’m sure, like, you can take your experience and definitely help your students and apply it, and that, I guess, that progressive stage of learning and not knowing everything right away still exists today with your students.
[00:06:48] Don Thacker: Absolutely, you know, if you think about it, you mentioned the word being agile, yeah, that, that ability to understand what agility meant early on has benefited my students in the long run because that’s, that’s our hard thing to teach people, you know, if I say you need to be more agile, a lot of people don’t tell you how to be more agile, but there are certain things that you have to learn to be adaptive in and there’s certain approaches to be adaptive in.
[00:07:16] And so, one of the things that I’ve been able to really, I think benefit on behalf of the student is taking some of those experiences that I’ve had and put ’em directly into you, into their, into the role-play, what, into the day of teaching, and say, “Well, how would you deal with, how would you deal with this, if this came up what would you do?” And allow them to then even throw in some in, innovative ideas on top of that.
[00:07:41] Jeremy Wood: So, Don, among all those interactions you, you had in that job, what was, like, you know, maybe the, the one experience or, or sale you were most kind of proud of that you, that you were able to land?
[00:07:56] Don Thacker: Probably one of the most innovative, best one I learned from, and it’s a, it’s a really interesting story, I, when the now Cleveland Guardians was building the brand new stadium, the progressive field, I wanted to become their food purveyor, that was one of the things we were begging, but I had no idea who that food vendor was going to be, they didn’t announce it, like, “Oh, so-and-so’s going to be our food vendor.”
[00:08:24] I went on, in essence, a stocking hunting trip, I wanted to go find out who this person was, and I literally walked around in Cleveland for an hour-plus looking for a doorway, and I finally came to a doorway, and, and the project was named Gateway, it was the Gateway Corporation, but it was called the Gateway Project,
[00:08:44] and I saw this door that said Gateway Corporation, and I’m like, “I’m going in here.” And there was a guard at the desk. And so, I went over to the information board, tried to look for some kind of clue to lead me to nothing, the guard looks to me, he goes, “Can I help you? You look like you’re losing, you’re looking for something?”
[00:09:01] And I said, “Yeah, let me just be honest, this is what I’m looking for, I’m trying to figure out this.” And he goes, “Hang on one second.” And he gets on the phone, he calls down, and he goes, “Hey, um, hang on for about five minutes, I have the people coming up that you’re looking for, they happen to be in this building.”
[00:09:18] And I said, “Where? There’s no upstairs.” He goes, “They’re downstairs, everything’s below ground.” He goes, “That’s why you can’t find it.” And sure enough, five minutes later opens up, and sports services just walks off, and the managers come in, and we start talking about what I could do for them, how I could do it, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:09:36] And he gives me a hardhead, and he goes, “Let’s go walk around.” And we’re walking around, and this stadium that’s being built, and dump trucks are walking by and, driving by, and, and I’m like, “This is mind blowing.” I’m in a wool coat, you know, dressed up, and here I’m on a construction site now. And that was probably the epitome of agility, like, you never know what to expect, but be ready for everything.
[00:10:02] Kristen Wisdorf: Well, yeah, never know what to expect, but also you never would’ve found that if you didn’t go hunting, right? And walking around and just having, you know, the guts, let’s call it, the confidence to walk into, walk into a building and go look for it.
[00:10:15] And I think that’s a really good lesson because you can’t just wish or hope for sales to land in your lap, you have to go hunt for them and find them, especially the ones that are so memorable, you know, um, in your career. So, that’s a really cool story. Oh, Don, you did something that a lot of students want to do, right?
[00:10:33] They go to school for marketing or management, they get in the sales, into sales with the goal or the expectation or the hope to parlay that into marketing, and you did it, you became, you said the marketing manager there, and you became a buyer. How did you, and, and kind of talk to us about that story and that transition from selling to getting back into marketing?
[00:10:56] Don Thacker: There, you know, there was a lot of, um, I’m gonna say, road stops along the way. When I first got outta school, it was more management than it was marketing, but through the series of steps that I took with the corporation I was with at that time, and it was generally retail, I find, I found myself about two and a half years in because I was willing to take risk inside of the buyer’s office, and then I became a project manager, and from the project manager then I took on additional responsibilities, and I started running things on behalf of people, you know, at, uh, 20-some years old,
[00:11:30] I’m opening up a brand new, large footprint location on my own, I’m the project manager kind of thing. From there then, you know, it was saying, you know, there’s, there’s really not a limit, and yeah, going into sales, some people desire to be in management, there are other people that go into management, and they’re like, no, this is not at all what I want to be,
[00:11:51] some people back out. And I really think it comes down to your own personal characteristic. What really motivates you, not, not career job-wise, but what motivates you in terms of your expectations as a human that your position can actually return back to you? I love sales, I still like sales, I still do consulting with companies, and I still go work with nonprofits, and I love that interaction,
[00:12:17] I love that ability to say, “You got a problem? Let’s see if we can kinda come up with a hypothesis of how we’re gonna solve that.” There are other people that just, they’re just not into that. I don’t know, it’s a plan, I, I think sometimes you just have to go with the punches and go le, well, here’s an opportunity, am I willing to take it or not?
[00:12:35] Kristen Wisdorf: And you made a great point, like, you’re willing to take risks and take stops along the way, right, like, careers aren’t always linear and, you know, you might not be in a sales role for 12 months and then find your way in a marketing manager role, you might have to take some risks and take some other stops along the way, it’s such a good lesson.
[00:12:53] Don Thacker: Correct. Correct.
[00:12:55] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah. So, Jeremy had asked you about your most, like, memorable, uh, sale during your time, you know, you worked for that company for 18 years. How did you use your previous retail experience in all of that time you were there ’cause a lot of our, you know, listeners, they have retail experience, it’s something they resonate with.
[00:13:13] Don Thacker: Well, the one thing that you’re exposed to is a lot of different products, and you get to actually oftentimes communicate with a lot of those companies and see their programs. So, when you’re going through that, that journey with that retailer, when you’re going through that journey with the company that you’re with, you have to take stock of the opportunity that you’re involved in at that moment, and at that time, I think you can learn from every circumstance, whether you intended to be there or not,
[00:13:43] there’s something as a takeaway that you need to go with, and you need to keep as your own so that you can, whether you use it someday down the road or you don’t, there’s a benefit to it, there, there, there’s value to it.
[00:13:56] Jeremy Wood: I, yeah, I mean, learn, learning from each of those circumstances, I think is a great point that there, there’s always opportunities to find learning lessons and, uh, you know, opportunities even from the, the mistakes. What, what was, like, maybe the biggest mistake or, you know, situation you would’ve done differently looking back during, you know, those interactions?
[00:14:23] Don Thacker: You know, that’s a tough one to ask anybody, what’s your, what was your biggest mistake? But I’m gonna tell you, it was probably one, one of my biggest learning times also. Probably my biggest mistake was when, when I was young, and I was given those rules, a responsibility to oversee people, having been in sports, I treated it very much like a sport where I’m just gonna come in there and just, like, demand, it’s gotta be my way.
[00:14:47] And, and that’s probably one of the biggest things that you learn in terms of leadership management or even sales management. There’s going to be unique ways to approaching problems situations, and you gotta take a moment to actually realize that somebody has, has a different perspective.
[00:15:04] Yes, there may be times that you’re gonna have to get down to this is the way it’s gotta be, I’m sorry, but there also has to be some give, and that’s one of the probably biggest mistakes I made early on, which is just expecting, like, you know, this is just the way it is, you’re just gonna have to do it this way.
[00:15:20] And I, and I, you learn from that, you, you learn to become a better manager, and yeah, I, I, I didn’t necessarily make friends and, and I got the job done, but it wasn’t probably the easiest way to get the job done.
[00:16:36] Kristen Wisdorf: So, you’ve mentioned, you know, early in our conversation that when you graduated from college, you got into retail because the economy, economy wasn’t, uh, very strong back then, and I resonate, I graduated from college in 2008, so I understand that, um, you know, well, hopefully, we’re not, um, in that position,
[00:16:53] you know, come May, whenever a lot of students are graduating, there’s some concerns about the economy. How are you taking, you know, your experience in guiding or, I guess, um, you know, mentoring or preparing your students for what they might walk into or the job, the job market they might walk into?
[00:17:11] Don Thacker: You know, the key goes back to the word you used, as mentioned, right at the very end, what’s the market? So, look at companies that are growing, look at companies that are moving in progression with the rest of the world. What are areas where you see progress being made, innovation being captured, um, where can you find a role in those kind of companies? And then, secondarily, look at their culture, and is that something you want to be a part of going forward?
[00:17:43] That’s gonna, you know, that, you’re gonna live that every day, that culture. So, you gotta be ready to invest in it, welcome it, and again, look for that opportunity because you don’t want to be in a stagnant, or even more so a company that’s going backwards.
[00:17:59] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s good advice, like, look at growth and, but also make sure you’re aligned culturally and vice versa. You’d be a fit because you do spend so much time with the people you work with, um, in your whole career, but especially your first job outta college, so.
[00:18:14] Don Thacker: Totally.
[00:18:14] Kristen Wisdorf: So, let’s transition, you know, you mentioned you took the leap full-time into academia. Talk to us a little bit about that decision, what were some of the most, like, surprising things when you kinda left, um, let’s say, the corporate world behind, and you started full-time in academia?
[00:18:30] Don Thacker: Well, again, it it, it came down to a, an instance and an opportunity. I got my grad degree completed, I felt comfortable where I was at in terms of even position, somebody who was a friend of mine suggested, “Hey, have you ever thought about, like, being an adjunct instructor, right? You got your grad degree, what are you gonna do with it?”
[00:18:53] And I’m like, “You know, I don’t know, I got bored, that’s why I got it, you know, I wanted to go do something different. So, no, I’ve never thought about it.” And they kind of nudged me, kind of mentored me saying, “You know what? I think you’d be good, you do sales training, you, you know, you talk to people all the time, why not try it?”
[00:19:08] So, I did that for, like, a year and a half before I actually went full-time, and it, it was an interesting transition because I’m thinking to myself, man, you know, I’m pretty comfortable here, but what new challenges would come with it if I decided to go down this road? And one of the things that bugged me about business at that time was that I saw a lot of people coming in here, in, and interviewing for positions, and they didn’t seem to be confident about their skills, that they didn’t seem to have everything that I thought they should have,
[00:19:40] and maybe, and, and honestly, I saw myself in them, saying, “You know, what can I, can I impact that somewhere? Can, can I do that on behalf of those students to make it a little bit more clear vision for them?” So, I, I mean, it sounds almost too good, but that’s honestly how it came to be, I mean, it was just kind of a weird circumstance. I never intended to be in academia.
[00:20:03] Jeremy Wood: So, once you’ve got in, involved there with the, the sales classes, can you talk to us about how you started getting involved with the sales competition teams?
[00:20:15] Don Thacker: Well, that’s, uh, that’s all, you know, I had taught marketing, so I, I actually teach across the realm of marketing at our university. So, sales was one of the areas because of my expertise and background that I always had.
[00:20:29] We started up the sales program at the Kent Campus, which is, uh, a little bit different than our campus that we’re here, but they’re about 30 minutes away. So, always been in contact with them, I was probably the person that had been teaching the sales class in the university the longest at that point in time if you looked at it.
[00:20:48] And so, we started the sales program, and there was two individuals, and Ellen Daniels is, is my colleague now at the Kent Campus, and she and I work with each other to do this now. But through circumstances there became an opportunity where they needed somebody else to chip in, and the chair at that time said, “Hey, listen, you know what, why, why are we not considering Thacker,
[00:21:09] you know, why, why aren’t, why aren’t we getting him involved?” And so, as kind of that, they, they started pursuing me saying, “Listen, you know what? We really need you to come in and help us out.” And again, door opened, and I’m like, “Yeah, let’s do this.” And so, I’ve been doing, you know, coaching the sales team, working with the sales individuals for good eight-plus years now.
[00:21:30] And love it because every time that we do this, we see our students continue to get connected to companies like yourselves. We find there’s opportunities for them, and that’s really our goal, it’s not about getting that trophy, it’s more about have we done our job in getting student opportunity and connecting them to the real world and companies that are just, you know, top-notch.
[00:21:52] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s awesome. So, it’s eight years the team has been competing, going to competitions?
[00:21:57] Don Thacker: The team has probably been competing for, like, ten.
[00:22:00] Kristen Wisdorf: Wow, okay.
[00:22:00] Don Thacker: But my involvement has been about eight.
[00:22:03] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s amazing. And how long have you been at Kent State total, teaching?
[00:22:08] Don Thacker: Well, it has now been 24 years.
[00:22:13] Kristen Wisdorf: Wow. Congrats. That’s amazing.
[00:22:16] Don Thacker: Yeah. So, you know, I mentioned 18 years at the previous company, well, for eight of those years, I actually worked at the company and I was in academia at the same time.
[00:22:26] Kristen Wisdorf: Okay, got it. So, how has, I guess sales curriculum changed from your perspective from when you started to where it is now?
[00:22:37] Don Thacker: Sales curriculum has advanced because the world of business has advanced, there’s so much more technology integration than we ever had before, there’s so much, in terms of intuitiveness and understanding of the customer, that we never had before, we never had the thing called consumer or customer analytics before.
[00:22:57] Now, we have so much early advanced information that when you’re building a prospect or you should have a background in that person before you even walk in the room, we never had that. When I, when I started in sales, you never had any idea unless you talked to somebody on the street, right, that was the only way you were gonna get insider information is you had to talk to a parallel non-com competitor, “Hey, what’s this person like?”
[00:23:22] Now, you go out to LinkedIn, and now you go out, and you can find this information, you find out their buying tendencies, their habits, et cetera, right, and you tell, find out how many offices. But now that has become more valuable, but also more reckoning in terms of, well, okay, because they do have this scale, how does that change your approach with them? What does that do in terms of your, their, your pitch? So, you know, it, it, it’s made you raise your game.
[00:23:49] Kristen Wisdorf: I would also say, I think prospects expect you to do the research, right, like they’re, they’re, you know, buying patterns are, have changed, they’re way more informed than they used to be, and they know what it feels like to get called on, right,
[00:24:04] whether it’s a cold call or in-person. So, they almost expect you to have done your research before versus, you know, every once in a while, we get a lucky prospect who is, you know, willing to let an SDR sales rep wing it, but they, they really kind of res, they expect it, and I think won’t really engage unless, um, the sales rep’s done that research, right?
[00:24:27] Don Thacker: I agree. I, there is a certain expectation and they ought to have that, but at the same ti, same time, I think it establishes a level of respect with that customer because they know that you went out there and you spent your time. And so, there, yeah, should there be an expectation?
[00:24:43] For sure. But if you do the right kind of information gathering, then you’re gonna find that that is gonna be easier to build that rapport with that customer. Too often, we sit at the, the table and we start talking about their company, and we forget that the buyer is an actual person, and I think it’s sometimes res, builds a better level, level of respect when we find something personable and talk to them about something personable and not about, oh, you know, you’re a fisherman or you’re a golfer, but, you know, tell me about kind of, like, what you just did, how did you get where you’re at? I’d love to know how you did that.
[00:25:24] Jeremy Wood: Well, Don, you men, you mentioned info gathering, and what I am curious about is, you know, having done these competitions and been involved with the, the sales classes for so long, what is, like, the, the approach that you typically take when you know, arming the, your students with, uh, you know, the right process and methodology to approach a, a sales call in, in a role play, or, you know, after graduation when they get into the real world?
[00:25:52] Don Thacker: Well, there’s the preparation first and foremost, right? But then there’s that beginning moment that aha, like, I’m, I need to get your attention moment. One of the reasons that your company and I made contact was because of my drive to go around to each one of the tables, personally, to say thanks for being there.
[00:26:14] But secondarily, also to gather information on behalf of my students that can’t be there, that are back home, that wish they had the opportunity, but there’s only so much travel budget available, and try to go back there and collect information and say, listen, these are fantastic companies and here’s what they’re looking for currently.
[00:26:32] So, I think it’s, you gotta have a goal in mind, you gotta be able to go out there and say, “All right, what am I trying to achieve?” It may be one thing to make contact, but what am I trying to achieve in this time when I’m spending minutes, perhaps an hour with you, do I have an objective? Is, is there something that we’re both going to benefit from rather than just simply, it’s always about what I’m looking for, but rather is it something that both of us can walk away with something of value?
[00:26:59] Kristen Wisdorf: So, speaking of, you know, information gathering and getting all the details you can for your students, whether they were at the competition or they couldn’t be there, how do you, I guess, prepare your students or advise them on what
[00:27:15] first role to take after college, and more importantly, what type of sales role to get into because, you know, we’re in February now, at least when, while, um, we’re recording this and, you know, graduation is gonna fly by, it’s gonna be here right, literally before we know it. And so, I’m sure a lot of your students are, some of them have accepted jobs, and some of them are kind of in the middle of deciding right now what to do.
[00:27:40] Don Thacker: First, you gotta take personal stock of yourself, you gotta understand what it is that you’re looking for and understand what your limitations are. I always tell my students, if you’re looking for, let’s say that you want a sol, excuse me, a social media role, have you had any experience of social media other than just simply using it?
[00:27:58] In other words, do you have the critical capabilities, first of all? Secondarily, do you have the driving willingness? There are companies around us, um, we’re, you know, still in a large manufacturing sector throughout the United States, and there’s one particular company that I always use as an example, and I say, listen, if you approach them at a career fair, realize one of the first things out of their mouth they’re going to ask you is, “Are you willing to move?”
[00:28:23] And if you say no or you hesitate, you’re done, you’re out of the process, but that tells you about what their expectations are. So, I’m telling you that so that you learn these expectations, but more so, go un, make an understanding of what the expectations of the companies are, even if it is trying to connect with somebody on LinkedIn that works for that company now,
[00:28:43] saying, “Listen, do you mind if I talk to you for a minute? I would just love to hear about your role in the company. I’d just love to know a little bit more.” And that’s the advantage of going to the sales competition, is that they get that firsthand experience being able to talk with SDRs and recruiting, recruitment people,
[00:28:59] to say, “Tell me what it’s like inside of your company, tell me what it’s like to spend day to day in your life.” And so, that’s the thing I, I try to prepare them is how to write the, uh, write the right questions, ask the right questions, how to go in there and interact because in the long run, they’re gonna have to make those tough decisions.
[00:29:19] They’re gonna have to choose which one, in cer, certain cases, you may walk out with three offers, okay, which one? And so, you’re gonna have to make that decision.
[00:29:27] Jeremy Wood: I think it’s im, important, I mean, you mentioned whether it’s role plays or these job interviews, how much you seem to be emphasizing that, that prep work and, uh, ensuring that your students are prepared before they go into to whatever type of, uh, you know, assignment or, uh, you know, process it is.
[00:29:48] Don Thacker: True, but I think you would agree that that’s not always possible, we say that, but in reality, sometimes there’s that, that elevator moment where you just encountered somebody. And so, I think it really comes down to do you understand how to communicate? Do you understand how to relate to somebody? And one of the things we always teach in the sales process is the discovery mode.
[00:30:15] How well do you go through the discovery mode, how, how well do you go through that discovery process? Because if you don’t have the background in front of you, then guess what? Use the questions to make them reveal it to you. So, that’s more the adaptability that we have to build in, you may not always have this perfect, perfect circumstance where things are handed to you, but can you, can you make it happen in front of yourself, or you just go, oh, well, and that’s the opportunity.
[00:30:45] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah. And I think, you know, the more prepared they are and the more training and regimen they have, the more they’re going to be able to kind of handle things on the fly when they don’t go as planned, right?
[00:30:58] Don Thacker: Well, also like sports, right? Um, business is very much like a competitive environment. You, you have to do it through practice, you’re never gonna get better at throwing a ball unless you throw it at least a million times, right? We’re heading to Super Bowl weekend, this weekend Patrick Mahomes didn’t just suddenly decide to walk on the field and go, “I think I’ll be a quarterback.” salesperson just can’t walk into the field office and go, “I think I’ll go into sales.”
[00:31:27] Jeremy Wood: That’s, that’s so true. Well, speaking of that, Don, it sounds like you on the, on the side, have a private company that is a little bit, uh, sports-oriented, right?
[00:31:39] Don Thacker: A little bit, a little bit, yeah, and, and that was another, like, accidental find, I’m gonna say. When my kids were growing up, they were all involved in sports, they, I, it’s my, my background, my wife’s background, we were involved in sports and, you know, is a natural inclination that our kids were gonna be in sports, and throughout the process, my, my middle child and my daughter, decided that she wanted to get into softball pitching.
[00:32:03] And as I started learning more and more and more about it, I knew it, I had played the game, even fast-pitched softball, but I didn’t know anything about pitching. So, I, I wanted to learn more and more and inquired the information, and then I had her going to an instructor, and I got to the point I’d like to tell the story because got to the point where I got tired of hearing the instructor say, “Just listen to your dad.”
[00:32:27] And I’m like, at one moment, the, the light bulb went off and said, “Well, if you keep saying that, why do I need you?” And literally, I got to that point, and I said, “Forget it, I’m just gonna do this myself.” And so, I trained her from the end of middle school all the way into college, and she played college-level softball.
[00:32:48] And then after that happened, and I just focused on her, she was my Guinea pig, I focused on her, and then I had people that started coming to me and saying, “Listen, would you teach my kid, would, would you train them, would you work with them?” And I’ve always been a coach, I’ve been a coach literally for, good lord, I think 18 years now, of some sort or another.
[00:33:07] But then it was like, okay, so I have this unique, I guess, ability. And so, since then, I have built this, this kind of a, a, a side gig where I have kids that come to me to learn how to, more than anything, learn how to pitch, fast pitch, I teach padding, I do some other stuff on the side, but, you know, it, it, it’s, it’s a unique thing because a lot of what I do here at the university is the same thing that I do out there.
[00:33:34] And I always tell them that’s my hobby, that’s not my job, I do that because I enjoy it, I love working one-on-one with the kids, I, I approach it in a very one-on-one customized approach, but it’s really, yeah, it, it just, it land itself as an opportunity.
[00:33:52] Jeremy Wood: Yeah. Well, and when you’re, when you’re passionate about it, it makes it probably a lot easier to, to really, uh, you know, show that, you know, makes it really easy to show how important it, it can be, I’m sure.
[00:34:08] Don Thacker: You know, the most special moments for me at that point is when I have a kid that I’m training that way, but they invite me to, like, their National Honor Society induction, it becomes more than the sport at that point, right? It, it becomes much more of a relationship, and that really is what I value more than anything else.
[00:34:26] I love the competitiveness, and I love when kids go succeed, and they go on to universities, and they got scholarships, but at the same time, it’s that connection, that ongoing relationship.
[00:34:36] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah. And I’m sure you have that with your students at Kent State as well, obviously.
[00:34:40] Don Thacker: Oh, absolutely, yeah, for sure. Many that I still contact and people that were sales competitors in the past that worked for different companies, they’ll still reach out, “Hey, what’s up?” You know, and that’s always great, you know when we have those interactions.
[00:34:54] Kristen Wisdorf: Well, it’s no secret that, you know, athletes can be very successful in sales, and a lot of athletes find their way into sales ’cause of just, like, the natural competition and things like that, but, you know, it’s really interesting that your full-time, you know, job working with college students, specifically in sales curriculum and you’re also, you know, so you’re a sales coach, but you’re also a softball coach.
[00:35:15] Um, and what would you say are some of the most, I don’t know, I guess, similarities between the two, between being an athlete and being in sales, in your experience?
[00:35:27] Don Thacker: Well, it begins with desire, you, you have kids that are willing and wanting to, to do something, they may not be great at it, but they have the desire to get better, and for me that’s key, is, is if I’ve got a kid, whether it’s in university, college, or if it’s on the athletic field, if they want to get better, then I’m gonna do my best to help them get better. And if I don’t know, I’m gonna find somebody that does know, I’m not gonna say that I’m the expert, end-all-be-all.
[00:36:00] But can I, can I get you there, can I, can I help move you along? And one of the things, and I, I, I did this last night with a couple kids and I said, “What’s your goal?” And they’re like, “What’s our goal?” And I said, “What’s your goal for right now, what are we doing right now? Tell me what your goal is before we leave here,
[00:36:17] what do you want to achieve?” And I don’t think they hear that often enough as young individuals of saying, “You tell me what your goal is for this time, I can tell you what I want, but what do you want out of this?” And so, there’s a very big similarity be, between that because as a salesperson, as a previous sales manager,
[00:36:37] you have to find out what the individual’s goals are and try to match that because not everybody is driven by the almighty dollar, there are other people that are looking for lifestyle and looking for other things, and we gotta, we gotta be able to adapt and change to that respect of what is it that they’re looking for and what, what keeps people moving.
[00:36:55] One of the things that keeps me moving is I have to constantly have a challenge, I need to have something new in my life, I get bored really quickly, I know that about myself, that’s why I do all these crazy things, people look at me, and they’re like, “Do you sleep?” And I’m like, “Not much.” But it’s my choice, it’s my choice, and that’s, that is my passion, it’s my choice, I, I do it because I don’t have to, but I want to.
[00:37:21] Kristen Wisdorf: You’re like a shark, Thacker, you gotta constantly be moving.
[00:37:26] Don Thacker: Something like that, except, and I don’t like being poked in the nose either.
[00:37:32] Jeremy Wood: Well, you, you said you always need to have a challenge, what is that, that next challenge for you that’s currently driving you?
[00:37:40] Don Thacker: So, I mean, you know that, it changes, right? Because I’m not quite to the point of retirement yet, and so I have to say this, I’m always looking, there’s always additional challenges,
[00:37:52] and, of course, some challenges come at you based on lifestyle. So, you know, I’m gonna be a proud a, a pr, excuse me, a proud grandpa right now because I had my first grandchild six months ago, right, there’s a challenge with that. Now it’s kinda, like, focused on her and saying, okay, “So, now, what can I do to instill her?”
[00:38:10] And they’re like, “Oh, you’re gonna be teaching her softball.” And I keep telling her no, I’m like, “No, I’m not doing this.” And they’re like, “Why not?” And I’m like, “Eh, I want her to like me.”
[00:38:21] Kristen Wisdorf: Oh, man. Oh, that’s great.
[00:38:23] Don Thacker: So, but, but, you know, there’s, there’s always things like that, and, you know, as I look forward to, like, what is the next step, I mean, retirement’s not really in my phraseology, for me it’s, what’s the next chapter? Because I may, you know, at some point may decide to not do academia, but I, I’m gonna go do something, whether it’s back in sales, I’m actually, like, I would love to go back in sales again, just, I think it’d be fun.
[00:38:49] Kristen Wisdorf: What do you think is the most rewarding part about your role right now in teaching these students these sales skills?
[00:38:59] Don Thacker: Their success, I could just be blunt, it’s their success. Being able to see them get out to a company, establish a lifestyle for themselves, enjoy what they’re doing, have the challenges, have the struggles, we all go through that, but just being successful.
[00:39:16] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, you know, I think it, it makes sense why so many athletes end up in sales, and I’m really kind of struck by what you said earlier, that it’s really about you’re looking for the desire to get better and I, I mean, nothing could be more true while some people are just naturally very gifted in sales and they, it just clicks right away for them.
[00:39:37] Oftentimes it is not easy right away, um, and people struggle and I think it’s a great reminder what you said, just have the desire to get better ’cause with the right coach leadership manager, if you’re making improvement every single day, that’s really what matters, especially for people in their first, you know, you know, professional sales role is just have the desire to get better, and if you, if you do the reps like you did, you know, you would at practice, the success will follow.
[00:40:07] Don Thacker: It’s true. When I first took my very first sales role, I didn’t feel comfortable in it, I didn’t even know if I liked it, it was a challenge for me day in, day out, but then I got better at it, and then I went back to the sales manager and said, “Hey, do you mind if I go talk to so-and-so?”
[00:40:25] And they’re like, “Wait, what?” You know, I was a territory rep and they were like, “Well, that’s not really your position.” I’m like, “But do you mind, I’m gonna be there, do you mind if I go in and talk with them? I’m just trying to make a cold call.” “Yeah, go for it.” And then that just kinda led through the process, and it’s very much the same.
[00:40:45] When I started at academia, I swear my first semester was just an absolute abysmal mess. I’m like, that had to be horrible for those students, I don’t know, somehow, I came out okay, and people said, “No, come try it again.” I’m like, “Really?” You’re gonna run up against obstacles no matter what, where you’re at in your career.
[00:41:05] And some things are not gonna naturally fit, I’m not gonna lie to people and say, oh, everything’s gonna naturally fit if you just work at it. No, that’s not true, but there are other things that you know are natural fit, and you may not be comfortable in it yet, but keep pushing, deep, deep pursuing it.
[00:41:20] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s great. Okay. We’re gonna do some fast fun questions, so just answer the first thing that comes to your mind. That good?
[00:41:31] Don Thacker: Done. We’ll see.
[00:41:34] Kristen Wisdorf: Okay. Do you, which feeling is stronger for you? Loving to win or hating to lose?
[00:41:40] Don Thacker: Oh, hating to lose, I hate to lose, don’t talk to me if I’ve lost, for 24 hours.
[00:41:49] Kristen Wisdorf: I love that, and spoken like a true athlete and sales coach. Okay, what is the most, like, cringe or embarrassing sales story or experience you can think of in your career history?
[00:42:07] Don Thacker: Oh, man, I’ve tried to forget all those and blocked them out, um, cringe-worthy ones. You know, I don’t know if I’ve had any, like, huge, huge blunders, but I, I think there’s those moments where you’ve forgotten somebody’s name, and you’re like, I got it right there, but I, I, I just don’t even wanna take a chance at it ’cause I know I got it wrong kind of moment.
[00:42:31] But I don’t think I’ve made a, I don’t wanna sound egoistical about this, but I don’t know if I’ve ever made a huge blunder, blunder, but I’m sure there has been.
[00:42:40] Jeremy Wood: Okay. What are some unpopular misconceptions of sales in your opinion?
[00:42:47] Don Thacker: That salespeople are only out there to sell to you, that they are only out there to make commission, that they’re there to benefit themselves and their company, I think that’s one of the biggest misnomers, and I think it’s because of all of our experiences with car dealers.
[00:43:06] Kristen Wisdorf: All right, last one. What are you, Don Thacker, world-class at?
[00:43:14] Don Thacker: What am I world-class at? Is sarcasm good? No.
[00:43:19] Kristen Wisdorf: Hey!
[00:43:21] Don Thacker: I’m really good at that, uh, world-class, I guess, probably one of the things that, that is probably a benefit and a curse at the same time is being able to gather in information from multiple sources,
[00:43:37] and I’m not gonna say that I can predict the future, but there are some times that I just think, man, here I can see it coming, and it, and actually led me to leave my first company because I saw some things happening and I’m like, I’m getting out when I can get out while my stock plan still works out because I don’t see this going in the right direction, you know?
[00:43:59] So, understanding that, you know, there are some flags and there are some indicators that, you know, you, you have to be aware of and change path or change, change what’s going on, but something has to happen, I dunno if that’s a world-class attribute or not, but.
[00:44:15] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, I like that, that’s a good one, that’s very unique. Well, Don, we’ve enjoyed having you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for telling us your story, walking through what you’re doing at Kent State. We’re excited to see you again at a future sales competition, I’m sure we will, and
[00:44:30] Don Thacker: Coming up shortly.
[00:44:31] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, and thank you for joining us.
[00:44:34] Don Thacker: Thank you.
[00:44:35] Jeremy Wood: Thanks, Don.