Campus Series: Scott Inks – Shaping the Future of Sales Education
Selling is actually a small part of a successful sales call. Unlike the sales stereotype of ‘showing up and throwing up’, Scott argues that a call should be primarily built upon asking questions and actively listening. ⠀ ⠀
In this episode of the Campus Series Podcast, Director of the KSU Center for Professional Selling and President of the University Sales Center Alliance, Scott Inks advocates for a customer-centric approach to sales, discusses the value of sales education, and delves into the evolving landscape of sales. ⠀
Guest-At-A-Glance
💡 Name: Scott Inks
💡What they do: Director – KSU Center for Professional Selling; President – University Sales Center Alliance
💡Company: Kennesaw State University
💡Noteworthy: Seasoned educator shaping the future of sales education.
💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn
Key Insights
Sales Success: It’s All About Asking Questions and Listening
Scott Inks emphasizes the critical role of asking questions and active listening in the sales process. He suggests that the smartest person in the room is often the one who knows how to ask the right questions, guiding the conversation towards a solution. This approach contrasts with the common stereotype of sales as a process of ‘showing up and throwing up’, where salespeople often resort to talking about their product in the hope that something sticks. Instead, Inks advocates for a more thoughtful, customer-centric approach, where understanding the customer’s needs through careful questioning and listening is paramount.
Sales Education: A Foundation for Real-World Success
Inks discusses the value of sales education in preparing students for real-world scenarios. He shares his experiences in teaching sales, focusing on the importance of role plays and sales competitions in building a solid foundation. He also highlights the benefits of hiring students from sales programs, as they already have a grasp of key sales skills, such as focusing on the conversation and understanding the importance of the questions a prospect asks.
Navigating the Evolving Sales Landscape: The Role of Technology
In the podcast, Inks delves into the evolving landscape of sales, discussing the impact of technology, particularly AI, on the industry. He underscores the importance of staying relevant and adapting to industry trends, ensuring that sales education aligns with the needs of the modern sales environment. He also mentions the potential of AI in areas such as prospecting and qualifying prospects, indicating the need to integrate these advancements into the sales curriculum.
Episode Highlights
From Sales to Education: Scott Inks’ Career Transition
Scott Inks discusses his transition from a career in agri-sales to education. He emphasizes the role of his MBA and the influence of mentors in shaping his journey. He also shares his experiences in teaching sales, focusing on the importance of preparing students for real-world scenarios and the value of sales programs in providing this foundation.
“I think you have to have a sincere interest in engagement, in having to engage people. If you’re not, you can overcome that, but you have to have a sincere interest in engaging people, and you also have to have a sincere interest in helping people. I think those two things are critical.”
Staying Sharp: How Sales Educators Keep Up with Industry Trends
Inks discusses how he and his colleagues at Kennesaw State University keep their sales skills sharp. They engage with industry professionals on a weekly basis, asking for feedback on their curriculum and staying updated on industry trends. Inks also mentions his interest in technology, particularly AI, and its potential impact on sales.
“We’re always asking ’em, ‘Hey, are we relevant? Is the curriculum still relevant? What do we need to add? Maybe, maybe underemphasize, deemphasize. And then of course we pay attention to trends. I pay a lot of attention to technology ‘cause that’s kind of an area of interest for me.”
Breaking Into Sales: Advice for Aspiring Salespeople
Inks provides advice for listeners interested in a career in sales but unsure of where to start. He suggests talking to people in the sales role they’re interested in and understanding what draws them to that career. He also recommends reading books about sales and stresses the importance of having a genuine desire to help people.
“I think that the other thing is what is drawing you to that career? If it’s just the money, then I think you’re gonna have a hard time, ’cause it’s not gonna cut it for you in the short run or the long run. You’ve gotta make sure that you embrace the concept of, ‘I wanna help people get better.’”
Rapid-Fire Questions: Uncovering Scott Inks’ Superpower and Sales Philosophy
In a rapid-fire question segment, Inks reveals his superpower to be his network of people with similar ideas about careers and family. He also shares his stronger feeling towards hating to lose than loving to win, especially in challenging competitions.
“My superpower? That’s a good question. I don’t know. Having, I guess, one thing that’s really good for me is the network of people I know and work with. I’ve got a really good connection of people that I work with that have similar ideas about careers and family and that kind of thing.”
Transcript:
Scott Inks: [00:00:00] The challenge though, that we’re, and we’re trying to address this, is that, recruiters often will say, Hey, accounting people know accounting, manage people know managing finance.
People know finance and marketers know marketers and sales people know sales. But they all don’t know how it all fits into the business as a whole. How is it all interrelated?
Kristen Wisdorf: [00:01:00] Welcome back, hustlers. It is Kristen Wisdorf. Your host of the Tech Sales is for Hustlers special campus series. I’m your host. Today I’m joined by Jeremy Wood. Welcome back to the podcast Jeremy.
Jeremy Wood: Hey, Kristen.
Kristen Wisdorf: We’re excited to have you back and we’re very thrilled to have Scott Inks joining us today.
Scott, you have a few jobs. He’s the director of the Kennesaw State, center for Professional Selling and then also, the University Sales Center Alliance President as well. So welcome to the podcast, Scott.
Scott Inks: Well, thank you very much and it’s great to meet you, Kristen. And Jeremy. I’m looking forward to it.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, looking forward to chatting with you. You’ve got a lot of great experience. You’ve been at a few universities and, um, you’re doing great stuff for sales education. So in order to kick things off, you guys know the drill. We like to start these things the same way we start our interviews with our, college students, which is [00:02:00] Scott, tell us about you.
Give us 60 seconds or so, give or take, and give us your highlight reel.
Scott Inks: Okay, well I guess my highlight reel would start with my family. I’ve got a wife, Kim, and two kids. My son Ethan, is gonna be a senior this year. My daughter is, uh, finishing up her sophomore, gonna be a junior, and she just finished with straight A, so that’s pretty cool. Pretty happy about
Kristen Wisdorf: Woohoo. Congrats.
Scott Inks: Yeah. and we’ve been here at Kennesaw for about seven plus years.
Uh, I came down here to be the director of the sales center actually to work with, Terry Lowe. I think you guys have already talked to Terry Lowe. And, uh, we’ve known each other since 1992. I guess. We were in the doctoral program together I was at Ball State before this as the director of the sales center there, and we thought, If we work together, we might be able to lessen the load, but actually we’ve just increased the load for both of us somehow.
So it’s a lot more work, but it’s good. And yes, I am finishing up my second year as, uh, president of the University Sales Center Alliance. I’ll be rolling off and be past [00:03:00] president for another two years.
Kristen Wisdorf: Okay. Wow. So I saw you went to Ball State Chirp Chirp. I
Scott Inks: Yes, chirp. Chirp. All right.
Kristen Wisdorf: a lot of friends who went to Ball State and were part of the sales program, so I’m familiar. So we’ll dig into all that and what you’re doing now at Kennesaw. but actually before we start, we’re really excited to talk to you about the University Sales Center Alliance.
So it would be great if you could give our listeners kind of a, let’s call it a 30,000 foot overview of what’s going on with the University of Sales Center Alliance and what you do as president there.
Scott Inks: Okay. And I was at Ball State when they got the chirp. Chirp. That’s not the most intimidating thing to say on a football field.
You know,
Kristen Wisdorf: that’s true, but it is memorable. I will say.
Scott Inks: yeah. Well, David Letterman said that the Cardinal’s, the fiercest robin size bird. So that was what we got. ‘Cause Letterman was a, uh, uh, ball State alum also.
Kristen Wisdorf: Oh, I not know that. That’s great.
Scott Inks: so the University of Sales Center Alliance, I was one of the founding members along with Terry Lowe.
So that gives you a little bit of, maybe our length, I won’t say age, but our lengths in this business [00:04:00] started in 2000. Two. And the idea was a, a little bit ahead of that, but, part of the reason was there have been a lot of people who’ve been in industry and came back and wanted to teach like me.
And we all appreciate the value of sales. But since, for the last hundred or so years, sales has kind of been in and out of acceptance in academia as an area of study back in the mid eighties, it started picking up as people started doing more research, tried to legitimize it, but then group of faculty got together and said, Hey, this is an area that needs to be promoted.
We need to enhance the sales profession and try to get it as a, a regular collegiate program of study. And so that group formed the, first university Sales Center Alliance, or the first group. And the objective there, the original mission was to do together what we can’t do individually, which was to kind of change minds at the universities about what sales is.
A lot of people even today think of sales and [00:05:00] think, oh, it’s retail, door to door. You’re selling vacuum cleaners, or what have you. And so, you know, there’s a lot of dispelling of those myths and talking about the professional nature of sales, and then also enhancing the sales profession. How do we help students have a more professional approach to sales?
How do we give back to the business community? How do we foster research in that area? that was kind of the genesis of the University of Sales Center Alliance. And we start off with, uh, nine, I think nine schools. Today we’re at 73, and I think by the end of this year we’ll be closer to 77. We see some other institutes that are, that are coming on, and that includes some that are international.
But the common focus that we all share is. Still to enhance a sales profession. We do it primarily by helping students to be professional in their approach to sales and understand the professional nature of sales. We also do it some with research and also some with giving back to the business community. So that’s a, I , look, I can talk forever so you, you know.
Kristen Wisdorf: [00:06:00] That’s great. No, that’s amazing. And I, I mean, it just goes to show that, y’all are the same age as memoryBlues founded in 2002 and from nine universities to now 77. That’s, that’s really impressive. And it also goes to show, the impact that you’re having. I mean, when I was in college, I, I went to Eau Claire where we had a sales program, but there weren’t as many back then and now it’s just incredible the amount of universities now that are.
Starting or have a, a sales program that’s getting up and running, and that’s kind of being spearheaded by the University Sales Center Alliance, and then of course the directors of the programs across the country.
Scott Inks: Well, it’s interesting the, if you were to go talk to business schools and talk to faculty within those business schools, not the sales and not as much marketing, many of them would be. Disinclined to think about sales as a, as an area of study, let alone required course.
But if you go talk to the members of the advisory board, the Dean’s, advisory boards of the College of Businesses, you would almost have unanimous [00:07:00] support for the fact that a sales course should be required of all business students because, Everybody sells. And I think people don’t really realize that until they get out in the business community and they go, oh my gosh.
Understanding how to be persuasive and how to help people solve problems is really important skill to have and, and so it should be required. There’s that, that’s a long road, to get something like that required of all business students. But schools like Kennesaw and Ball State and others are making it required for their marketing majors. So we’re growing in that area.
Jeremy Wood: So, Scott, you mentioned, you know, you kind of set out to change the myths of sales. what do you think is like the, one of the myths you’re still trying to, solve right now about sales?
Scott Inks: Oh my gosh. I, I cringe every time I’m listening to, uh, Sirius XM and i hear that idiot get on to talk about, he’s the world’s greatest sales trainer. It’s 550 ways to close handle objections from A to Z. You know, that’s the kind of stuff that drives me crazy because it’s what we’re fighting against and [00:08:00] that kind of hack approach to selling while there’s some value in understanding a little bit of that, that’s not really.
B2B sales. I mean, it’s the fool me once. Shame on you, fool me twice. Shame on me thing. You’ve got to be sincere. You’ve gotta provide value and you’ve got to be a trusted advisor if you wanna be successful in the long run. And that, that reliance on that hackers style of selling just isn’t gonna cut it.
And it’s certainly something we fight against because, every semester, every year anyway, we’re enrollment of freshman students and we’re back to square one. Like by the time they get to a senior, like, oh, this is great. Yeah, I really wanna do this. Professional sales. They roll off the juniors freshmen come in and go, okay, here we go again.
But we are starting to make some impact. We are seeing more parents coming in with their students, saying, Hey, we want to be here because of the sales program. We wanna be here ’cause we want that for our kids. They’re seeing, they’re starting to see that as a, as a career option. And the other thing I think too is, that companies.
They don’t mind investing in sales programs. they [00:09:00] feel it’s like it’s money well spent and the colleges are on increasing pressure to generate revenue to, to kind of fund themselves. And so it’s pretty easy for a dean of a college business to go, oh my gosh, these sales programs can generate some revenue, because that’s what companies want.
And so it’s, it’s a great. way to, to accomplish that as well as, you know, ensure that, we’re helping students to be successful when they graduate because most of the students are gonna start off in a sales role. It’s like a 35%, universitywide higher than that in a college of business. And of course, market major’s almost a lock.
So it’s a great route to do. What’s one of the things that most deans are concerned about? Student success. Varying revenue. It’s a win, win, win.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, it absolutely is. And I mean, we’re one of those, university partners and businesses where we. I mean there is no secret. The folks we hire directly from a sales program, they have a shorter onboarding time, a faster ramp. They hit quota faster. They get promoted faster. I [00:10:00] mean, all of the above. In fact, our internship is almost exclusively students from sales programs for that exact reason.
So you had mentioned, you know more and more you’re starting to see parents. be on board with the sales program. And that was actually gonna be my next question, talking about those myths that we’re fighting or those, I guess, um, misconceptions about sales. Do you find, that parents are a big influencer and students joining the sales program or not joining the sales programs at university and taking the courses?
And how has that evolved over the last couple years?
Scott Inks: What’s a good question, and I think where you see the parents influence the most is when they’re coming through high school and going in to a university, what kind of, what major to pursue. So they definitely have, influence there. For a lot of the programs, ours included, we don’t actually see the students till they’re a junior.
So there’s a lot of time for them to kind of, you know, drift and maybe, maybe choose a different major. And so, then they influence the parents, I [00:11:00] think way worse off a little bit. Where it might play a role is if a student says, Hey, I’m thinking about changing my major to sales, and the parents go, what?
No, he didn’t. We’re not paying you, we’re not sending you to college to be a salesperson because again, it’s that negative stereotype. But we can talk to the parents and talk to ’em about, okay, your son or daughter graduates from college, Do you want them to be employed? Yes. Do you want them to not live at home?
Yes. Do you want them to have good money and get rid Yes. Yes. And that answers all those checks, all those boxes. You know the other thing, you hear a lot of, stuff in the news about collegiate debt. And how bad student debt is and everything. But you don’t ever get the, the, the people don’t come to the talk to our programs because our students are graduating.
If they have debt, they’re gonna pay it off ’cause they’re making good money. But that, that doesn’t sell papers. Well, that’s dating myself, sell, uh, that’s not, cliques, well as some of the other things.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, that’s a great point. Okay, let’s take it. thank you for walking us through the University Sales Center Alliance it’s very impressive. [00:12:00] Let’s take it way back. Let’s talk a little bit about Scott growing up. Where’d you grow up? Where’d you go to high school? And, I think if I recall, you went to school at Purdue originally For undergrad,
Scott Inks: Boiler up.
Yes.
Kristen Wisdorf: Okay, got it. So talk to us a little bit about, who Scott was growing up and how you ended up at Purdue.
Scott Inks: Okay. Well, I probably wasn’t growing up when I was at Purdue, I was,
Kristen Wisdorf: No, no, no. How you
Scott Inks: long working process. No, I mean, it was a longer working process. Took me several years past that. no. When I went to Purdue, I went in originally as a biology major and the, discipline of biology and science was inconsistent with my.
Other activities that I chose to pursue at Purdue, which was pretty much enjoying college. I did take, I, I switched it over to ag Econ became an Ag Econ major, which, you couldn’t have guessed going in. That’s what I was gonna do. But I took an agri selling class.
At Purdue, and it was one that was one of the first sales programs really in the, in the country that was [00:13:00] back in the eighties. there was, uh, I think, uh, St. Kate’s had another program back then. But you know, that was when they were selling, Cutco Knives was part of the project. You sell Cutco knives, but then we also did sales shadows and, uh, a lot of, some of the activities that we still do today.
But I remember they asked, how many of you all are. At the beginning of the class, how many of you are planning on starting your career in sales? And I, not only did I not put my hand up, but I, I kind of crossed them under my legs to make sure nobody mistake me for wanting to pursue a career in sales.
But, that course changed my mind and it was a really good course, uh, and it changed my perception of what sales were and was. And after I got out, I started, With an agri selling company, and I really enjoyed the sales role that, that fit in. That job was probably not the best fit for me, but I enjoyed the, uh, selling career.
And then the other kind of pivotal moment, I went back from my MBA and, uh, I took a [00:14:00] course with, A guy named Dick Canada who was at iu, he’s passed away a few years ago, but he was also a big, early salesperson, really kind of getting that developed in, in Academia. And he taught his courses based on spin selling.
He’s not you guys, so he used to gimme me all kinds of flack for being from Purdue. But, we, uh, ’cause it was Purdue IU was a combo. It was IUPY at the time. But I had a great relationship with him, that and out through my, through my career until he passed away. But, those things, you know, really helped, kinda shaped my perception of sales at the time, what it was. I might have drifted off course there. I got off on a tangent. Sorry about that.
Jeremy Wood: So what Scott would you say is something you wish you were better prepared for before starting your first sales role?
Scott Inks: better prepared for, well, I’ll tell you, at that particular job that I had was agri sales. that was a, Hey, go out there and experience it and then come back and we’ll provide you some training,[00:15:00] It was scary. And I had some really embarrassing moments, because I really was just kind of floundering a little bit.
But the idea behind it was, look, you’re not gonna listen until you know you have a place for it to fit. It’s kinda like when you suggest, I suggest people go out and work before they come back for their MBA because it creates a place for all that knowledge to go. They can relate to it, but I remember, vividly, uh, It was back when you all probably don’t remember slide projectors, but you know, the click, click, you know, 35 millimeter slide projector.
And so I went to do a presentation in front of probably 150 growers. I mean, this is like three weeks into the job and I’m throwing up these slides and I got done. I said, nobody have any questions and. Some guy raised his hand. He said, yeah your product burned my corn down last summer and I wanna know what you’re gonna do about it.
And I, that’s what my expression, my chin kind of fell to the floor. so, you know, the only thing I could do was, what anybody would do is stall, is say, I’m sorry, could [00:16:00] you repeat the question? Because I’m just, I’m, I don’t know what, and anyway, so you could, they probably could see the sweats starting to drip down off my forehead.
The guy who was in my, in my territory before me had changed one of our competitors. And he said, well, let me help you out with this. As he got up and he kind of took over and it was embarrassing, but I was glad to be off the floor, I I, I gotta knoome stuff. I gotta go back and get this technical, I wanna know how do I handle that particular thing?
You know? I wasn’t prepared for that kind of a complaint, especially publicly.
Kristen Wisdorf: So the, your savior was someone who worked now for a competitor.
Scott Inks: Yes,
Who was in my, he was in my territory
before so he was familiar with the situation. fact, I could have said, Yeah. it was his
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah. Literally.
Scott Inks: he was the guy there before. I’m the new guy. so there was that, you know, I think maybe some, some better preparation for not, not the sales side so much, but just as preparing for some of the more, uh, difficult challenges that you might face and, and how to, how to confront those.
I went to [00:17:00] another stop along the way, first few months and, we didn’t have crm, so you’re going in kind of blind. And I introduced myself to of our, dealers. And gives me this like curled his fingers, like, come here kind of thing to me. You know, that’s not gonna be good when that happens.
So we go into his warehouse and some of our products in a pallet he’d ordered, had been leaking. You know, he say, Hey, I, I’ve been after you guys for like two and a half weeks to, uh, come take care of this problem, and now you’re here trying to sell me something new. What’s the matter with you? am an I being punked.
What? You know, what’s going on here? And so, you know, that was the kind of thing that I wasn’t prepared for. so little bit advanced prep for something like that, but now that’s, that’s why I tell the students, that’s why c r m is so important. I could have been a hero going in saying, Hey, I’m your new rep and I’m here to take care of this problem for you.
Jeremy Wood: Hmm.
Scott Inks: Uh, that would’ve made a whole different impression.
Jeremy Wood: Well, Scott, I, I also heard in there a skill that it sounds like you have, which is the ability to. [00:18:00] To self-assess and, and reflect after that initial bad experience. You said you better go back and learn a little bit more. So, it’s okay to make those mistakes, but it sounds like you kind of had the right mindset of, let me learn from this versus kind of accept that this is how it’s gonna be.
I.
Scott Inks: Yeah, I didn’t wanna be in that position again. I wanted to be loaded for bear, as they say. Next time I, I came up with that and, you know, those things, those things come up. Sometimes might be better that you. Trial by fire kind of thing. And maybe it makes you stronger. I, I don’t know. but but that was good.
And, and after that, you know, the other things that I noticed is that, in college I was pretty much petrified of being in front of people, talking to people you, like a lot of people, I don’t wanna public speak, but after a few of those, and you survive, you go, you know, I can make it through much of anything you could survive, that kind of stuff.
It’s really not too bad.
Kristen Wisdorf: Definitely. Well, yeah, there is value in, we can call it O T J or on-the-job training, right? Like going out and experiencing things, but at the same time, You know what sets a average salesperson [00:19:00] apart from an elite salesperson is their ability to prepare and be ready for kind of any of those situations and be able to think on your feet.
And you’re absolutely right, like I mean, even when I was in college, I did an outside sales internship and I would have to go into businesses blind too, not knowing if they had issues in the past. And it certainly helped me, I guess, create like a thicker skin, right. I would’ve like much, much more effective going in with a plan and more prepared, like you had mentioned.
So a lot of value in the technology and the, I guess the, the growth and development and change that the sales industry has experienced, especially over the last 20 years or so.
Scott Inks: Yes, a lot. And that technology really has helped, significantly. The information that’s available to the sales personnel is tremendous. If they’ll, if they’ll use it, you know, that’s a constant battle still with salespeople is, you know, I might, I don’t, I don’t do administrative work, right?
That’s not my job. I’m trying to sell things and I think, in [00:20:00] fact, my dissertation was on how to, um, get salespeople to adopt Salesforce automation. That was prior to CRM and so, you know, a lot of that was the same thing. That’s not my role. I, sell, I don’t put in information in a system that other people can see.
And, you have to help people understand, look, if you do this, you’re gonna be better off like me. You know, if I go into an account, I open up and say, oh gosh, they’re having this problem. They’d called about this. Or, last time I talked about that, and you’re gonna be much better prepared for that call.
And just, but you had to get the information in.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, you actually make a good point. You know, there is that typical kind of like sales, they’re terrible at, you know, filling out CRM and taking notes. But then there are also, I think especially now that more and more people, their eyes are opened up to professional selling. You know, there are people who are great at being detailed and organized and prepared, and I think there are a lot of different.
I guess styles [00:21:00] nowadays, it’s not just, you know, the person who loves to be on stage in front of everyone who’s in sales. salespeople nowadays are, you know, if you’re a great listener and you can be an introvert and be in sales, but I would argue that there are some common, I guess, Traits, or whether it’s personality traits or working styles that, that are more successful in sales.
What would you say, Scott, is, in order to be in sales you must X or you really shouldn’t get into sales unless you like doing X, Y, or Z. Like, are there those common traits that you think do make, you know, an elite salesperson?
Scott Inks: I think you have to have a sincere interest in engagement being in, have to engage people if you’re not, you can overcome that but you, but you have to have a sincere interest in engaging people, and you also have to have a sincere interest in helping people. I think those two things are critical.
A lot of, a lot of people, And, and because I deal with students all the time, and I, and I, listen, I talk to [00:22:00] my online students. I interview them twice a semester. And, it’s fairly common for them to feel, I don’t wanna be pushy. I don’t want to do this or I don’t wanna sell. But if I ask ’em, have you ever tried to get somebody to go to a restaurant?
You like, oh yeah, yeah. Well, why? Because I know they’d have a good experience. Okay. So that’s the same thing. If you feel confident about what you’re selling and you feel like they’re gonna be better off, that issue of, I’m pushy or whatever, just really goes away because you know that you’re doing something that’s gonna be in their best interest in the long run anyway.
And so that helps. But I think you have to have a, a pretty sincere interest in wanting to engage in that kind of a conversation. And if you don’t, then. You know, it’s probably not gonna be a good fit. you don’t have to be an extrovert. You don’t have to be the life of the party. You don’t have to be, Hey, how you doing coach?
You know, that kind of thing. And that sometimes works against You You just have to be able to think, you’ve gotta be able to listen, diagnose, and then figure out, you know, what a, a good solution might be and [00:23:00] be capable of conveying that.
Jeremy Wood: So
speaking of some of the skills and traits, what would you say is a skill that folks who take your. or join the sales program, are going to get that they wouldn’t if they didn’t join the program.
Scott Inks: I think probably the first thing, which is often surprising to them is, The emphasis on asking questions and listening. You know, I’ll tell my students that sometimes the smartest person in the room is the one who knows that ask questions, not the one who has the answers. ‘Cause if you’re asking questions and you’re doing it the right way, you’re guiding the conversation to find a solution.
But you have to be able to ask questions, and you really gotta be able to listen, and you’ve gotta be able to do, the paradoxical, see the forest for the trees, but also pay attention to the trees or, or pay attention to the forest, right? So you’ve gotta be small picture and big picture at the same time.
And, I that, that kind of, approach, that kind of view of selling as, hey, you know, it’s really more about learning, what’s going on and, and shaping a conversation. [00:24:00] That you wouldn’t get without that exposure. ‘Cause again, the stereotype is, you know, show up and throw up, right?
That’s the expression feature, dumping, whatever you wanna call it. people will tend to do that, especially when they’re uncomfortable, in a situation. They tend to go to what’s comforting with them. But usually what’s comforting them is, oh, I know my product sheet so I can just go ahead and start telling everything about my product, hoping that something sticks.
No, don’t do that. Stop, wait, ask questions and then move forward. I remember there was a sales trainer who, and I don’t remember exactly where this was, but they would, if you went on a call and you felt confident, they would say, okay, give me all your, material, your collateral pieces, and then to leave ’em in the car, and now you go in there without anything because the focus is really on the conversation, that early part of the conversation.
And I think That’s a, an approach that people probably wouldn’t expect unless they had a sales course like ours or any of the sales center courses.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah. That’s such a good exercise too, right? take your focus off the page or off the [00:25:00] iPad or whatever you’re using to present and put it on the. prospect or the buyer and focus on the conversation. it’s something we, I mean, we struggle with too, with our, our new hires, because, you know, we hire a lot of folks right outta college and their whole life from, you know, through high school and then college, they’ve always been rewarded for knowing the answer, right?
Like a teacher asked them a question, oh, hey, I’m gonna raise my hand. I know the answer. Well in sales you have to kind of reframe your brain. And it’s really not about, especially if a prospect asks you a question, it’s not necessarily about you having the answer. What’s more important is why they’re asking that question.
And, you know, continuing to dig and, and get very curious. And so it’s a skill that we continue to build and it’s why we love hiring students from sales programs because they have that foundation already and it’s not, they’ve been practicing it right, with between role plays or sales competitions as well.
[00:26:00] speaking of education and teaching sales, talk to us a little bit about your transition. So you were in agri sales, you were, you know, walking into growers and having to handle challenges and issues. What was the transition period? When did you end up [00:27:00] getting into education and kind of walk us through that journey.
Scott Inks: Well, I decided to go back to my mba, and actually did it with a couple of my friends of mine. We all kinda just said, Hey, why don’t we go back and get our MBAs? And we did. it was at Ball State University. So I worked there for 14 years, but before that, I’d got my MBA. And I was fortunate enough to get, connected or to work with Dr.
Ramon Ala, who was at Ball State, was another one of the schools, original nine sales centers. And he had this sales program going I went up to him and said, Hey, I like sales. Can I be your ga? And I kind of muscled somebody else outta that position, but, you know, it worked out for, I was, Looking out for number one, I guess, but it, it turned out great and I started working with him on the, national Conference in Sales management and I helped him with doing role plays.
I was the buyer for role plays and, helping the students with the sales ’cause of my sales background. I said, this is a pretty good gig. And he said, well, if you want to like, if you like it, go to University of Memphis and get your. Your PhD there, ’cause that’s a [00:28:00] big sales focus at, at the University of Memphis and I said, okay, I’ve got nothing better to do for the next few years.
So that’s what I did. And, uh, it was a very pivotal moment and it’s the right fit and I’ve loved every minute of it.
Kristen Wisdorf: So you went to Ball State for your MBA, and then you went to Memphis for your PhD, and then from there, did you go back to Ball State or did you stay in Memphis or Tennessee for a period of time? Where was the first school you or program you taught?
Scott Inks: ell, we, we taught at the University of Memphis. I taught sales course at the University of
Memphis where you’re getting your doctoral, doing your doctoral work. But then the first. Postgraduate degree. job I got was at, middle Tennessee State University, so I taught there in the sales program there.
We, they didn’t have one there, but they just joined the University of Sales Center Alliance last year. So that was good. started teaching sales, sales management. And then, so sales technology kind of course started to evolve and then, went to Ball State and worked at Ball State for, I said 14 years.
and [00:29:00] Ramon Abla was the director there. I was the assistant director or associate director. And then when he stepped down, I took over his director and we kind of, grew that coursework there. We had a million dollar endowment from, HH Greg. And, then over that course of those 14 years, I had been, you know, in regular contact with, Terry Lowe.
And we’d kind of been thinking about what’s the long-term plan? And finally the piece kind of fell together at Kennesaw. And so then I came down here. So yeah, ball State and Kennesaw we’re both first members of USCA, so I’ve been there and Purdue is now in the U S C A, which is good.
And Middle Tennessee state’s in the USCA. So I guess I’ve been at sales schools the whole time.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah. That’s incredible. and I imagine having, You know, taught at different universities that, that helps you at, at the next place you go because it just aids in your experience and exposure and, the people you get to work with at which ultimately I imagine helps the programs and the students as well.
Scott Inks: Yeah, that’s true. It helps a lot. [00:30:00] Even, even better, I think, is in my role as, president of the U S C A, I can do these site visits for, uh, schools that wanna move up to full members or to, uh, reaccredited. So if they’re a full member, they reaccreditation. And so I’ve been to several schools and it’s, an awesome experience.
I mean, the travel, you know, being away from home is. not great, but I’ll tell you, go on and talk and see what people are doing. These programs is just phenomenal. There are a lot of good programs in the usa. People are doing a lot of cool stuff. We talked to Rob Peterson. I know before that you’ve talked to some of the other folks, and Rob was a Memphis guy too.
He was down there. With us. you know, that, that’s just great ’cause you go around, you learn what people are doing and you say, oh, that’s really good. This might work for us and we can do this and do that. And the USCA also is really good about sharing ideas. so there’s a lot of sharing that goes on between what we’ve got.
Now 70 some faculty, so that’s great. but certainly the prepping at the, uh, various schools was helpful. I kind of developed this, um, sales analytics technology course along the way, and it’s been [00:31:00] growing, now it’s required course here at Kennesaw, so I’ve kind of carried that with me also from place to place.
Kristen Wisdorf: That’s incredible. What was the most surprising thing when you began? either, you know, working with the programs or teaching directly, when you. You know, went from being the salesperson to teaching it. Is there anything that really stands out as like a very surprising thing about teaching the profession of selling?
Scott Inks: I’d say that the. Couple things. One, probably the, the most surprising thing, which is also the best thing, really, the best part of it is the impact. students will, maybe at the time they’re not big fans of doing the work, but then, you know, you get a message from a student who’s been out for a year that says, oh my gosh, this is incredible.
Thank you so much. Those are, I probably wasn’t anticipating that kind of thing. was a big surprise. I, I had a, a message from a text message from a student who had been out for a little over a year, [00:32:00] and he sent me pictures from his, apartment in Chicago overlooking the, lake, you know, a lake shore.
And he said, this is what you made happen for me. Yeah, that was cool.
Kristen Wisdorf: That’s
Jeremy Wood: That’s
incredible. Yeah.
Scott Inks: those kind of things and those offset the, the other side of the spectrum are students who aren’t, the students who are not quite as eager, they’re challenging at the moment, but the ones you look back at later and go, ah, that was pretty funny. Yeah. To get a little sense of humor.
Jeremy Wood: So, Scott, I’m, I’m curious your, your take on the, when it comes to further education, you mentioned earlier that you wanted to get, you know, experience so that there’s room for. That higher education. what’s kind of your, perspective on students considering getting into the, the workforce right after college or, pursuing things like an mba, higher degrees, before getting into the working [00:33:00] world?
Scott Inks: Well, of course, you know, I would’ve a vested interest in having people just stay and go right into the MBA program. Right. ‘Cause that’s that they’re, they’re continuing out their school. Uh, but I don’t think that’s their best interest. I think that students, unless, they have some sort of significant work experience ahead of time or while they’re, while in college. And that would mean, you know, the non-traditional type of student. Maybe they’re working full-time at a career job. I’ve had several students who are already in sales roles or something like that, where they’re getting that kind of experience. but I think if you’re coming straight through, it’s challenging because if, the analogy I’d like to use is if, if I was trying to teach you folks photography, I could tell you something, you could go out and do it and come back.
You’d say, oh yeah, that worked. Didn’t work. I tried this. That didn’t happen. But, you know, for a lot of it, in business and in sales or whatever, Eric, the business we’re like, trust me, in, in a year and a half, this is gonna be important to you. and you can’t really try it right now because you’re, you’re not running a business.
So when you get out and [00:34:00] start working, this was true for me when I got out and start working and I was working for. You know, I think maybe a year or so, and oh my gosh, I went back and started looking at my textbooks that I’d kept for some reason, and I thought, there’s some good stuff in here. This, this stuff is actually important.
but it doesn’t, sit that way when you’re coming through high school, move through college. You’re just thinking about, I gotta get my grade, then I get my degree, get my job. And so if you work and then you come back for mba, Oh, I see where that fits. Oh, yeah, I understand why now it’s important to learn finance or accounting or management or marketing or sales, and it just kind of has a better place in your, in your head.
Kristen Wisdorf: I think what’s unique though about sales programs is to your point about you can, you know, read it in a textbook but you don’t really. You can’t appreciate it as well until you’re in the job doing it. And I’ve got, you know, I have training, sales training manuals from years and years ago that I’ll still crack open.
But I think your program and, and many of the sales programs across the country are bridging that gap by [00:35:00] making the sales programs experiential, by doing role plays in the classroom and sales competition. So, I mean, One of the biggest competitions is held at Kennesaw State University year. talk to us a little bit about what kennesaw’s doing to make that experience come off the page for your students now.
Scott Inks: You talking about the competition or the,
Kristen Wisdorf: All of it, I think what you’re doing in and out of the classroom, I think it’s both, both of it is really important to, to your point, to be able to kind of bridge that gap and have students. I guess have the appreciation and the application of the topics that you’re teaching them. So,
Scott Inks: Well, let me, let me touch on something here. I think a challenge that we have, and you’re right, we, our students and students at sales centers in general. they haven’t had real world sales experience, they’ve at least done role playing. But a lot of programs actually have ’em, you know, making sales calls, whether it’s fundraising or if we’re doing something for the sales center or an event [00:36:00] golf outing and auction or whatever it might be.
So they do get some interaction with the customers, which is great, and that’s why, that’s one of the reasons why. As you said, they tend to wrap up faster and they turn over less ’cause they already have that experience. The challenge though, that we’re, and we’re trying to address this, is that, recruiters often will say, Hey, accounting people know accounting, manage people know managing finance.
People know finance and marketers know marketers and sales people know sales. But they all don’t know how it all fits into the business as a whole. How is it all interrelated? You know that general business acumen, we get really good at specializing. But not so much an integration of the various business disciplines.
So one of the things that we’re gonna try to work on now is, helping our students understand, yeah, this is the sales role, but here’s what finance does, here’s what accounting does, here’s what you know, there are, there is the business operations. so that you don’t have to be terribly knowledgeable, but you have to have some understanding, appreciation for the integration so that you can talk reasonably [00:37:00] intelligently, uh, when you’re out interviewing or even working in the sales area.
I remember. my first year in. the sales role. We had a regional meeting and they invited somebody in from a university to teach us basic finance, like balance sheets, income statements. So we could be able to, I know I had this in college, but they were serious. This is real.
I mean, yeah, it’s real. So, you know, that’s the kind of thing of thing that I think is an area that, trying to work on and help, our students differentiate that I think can make them better prepared for. a general career, you know, in, in sales
or area.
Kristen Wisdorf: absolutely. Whether it’s sales and they need to know this for their buyer. or the accounts they’re working or if they have aspirations to obviously grow and develop themselves. You know, if you become a sales leader or a department head, these are absolutely functional areas that you need to know, so great.
That’s incredible.
Scott Inks: And we have, uh, Brent mcc, whMcCullough a. Was a great hire for, he also talked [00:38:00] to Stephen Sleep too, I believe. Right. And, and Brett McCulloch, who has had 30 plus year experience with Johnson and Johnson. And he came over and, and he came on board with us and took, control of the sales management class and does just a phenomenal job at helping students.
understand basic interviewing techniques and skills, not only from managerial level but also from the salesperson level so they can better prepare to interview. You know, you really focused a lot on how to recruit good talent, why it’s important, and so those students I think, get an uncommon exposure, appreciation of that side of things, but that makes them better prepared as a candidate
in the job market.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, we’re making the rounds, we’re talking to everybody. We like to hear everyone’s stories and feature them on our podcast. And you know, it’s interesting, I, you know, university Sales Center Alliance is, is helping do a lot of this. But I’m curious, how do you and the other faculty at Kennesaw State, how do you keep your sales skills sharp, and kind of move with the.[00:39:00]
Industry, I guess, and the current, I hate to say trends, but Right, like between technology and how educated buyers are, there are trends in selling and how, do you and your, squad keep those skills sharp?
Scott Inks: Well, we, we have an advisory board and we have our partners. So we’re, you know, we, we work with. Industry people on a weekly basis, whether they’re coming in for lunch and learn, or they’re coming in to talk or to learn about the partnerships or whatever. So we’re constantly engaging with the people in the business profession.
We’re always asking ’em, Hey, are we relevant? Is the, where’s the curriculum still relevant? what we need to add? Maybe, maybe Underemphasize. Deemphasize. And then of course we pay attention to trends. I pay a lot of attention to technology cause that’s kind of an area of interest for me.
And so, you know, of course the big thing right now is ai. Where’s that gonna fit in? Right? How, how is that gonna help? And there’s a lot of great, promise for how AI can help salespeople in, terms of, uh, prospecting, qualifying prospects, all these different areas. [00:40:00] So, you know, we’re looking at how do we integrate that into the, curriculum in a way that makes sense, right?
we don’t want to, Gartner’s got their hype cycle, right? We’re not into, we’re not into the hype that’s, that’s not been tested. So we like to, give our students things that, that we know work. and then also though, keep a focus on the basics. The very basics then that is, you know, people aren’t going to say yes to something they don’t think is gonna make them better off.
And so you still gotta do some of those basic things. And then how does this, how do these new technology, new trends, how do you work those in those new tools and, and ways of thinking? And, you know, did some research and was talking about, oh, buyers don’t wanna have as much interaction with sellers and, you know, so there’s all these things evolving, but I think you have to have the right kind of perspective when you, approach those, uh, one of the things I tell our students is you hear the stat that, you know, X percentage of buyers are already three quarters of the way through the buying process before they.
Wanna engage with you. Well, that’s true perhaps for [00:41:00] people who are already in the buying decision process, but one of the things that you can do as a salesperson is move them into the buying decision process, and so you have an impact there. The other message that I give the students is, you have to be relevant.
You always have to find ways to add value in the channel. Right now, when you get out in your sales role, you’re in the channel. You’re the connection to the customer and your company. And if, if whatever you’re doing can be replaced by the internet, whatever, you’re gonna be out of a job. So you’ve gotta be thinking, and your brain is your biggest asset to help make you different, different than, oh, I can order online or I can use ai.
No, you’ve gotta bring something to the table. So you’ve constantly gotta be thinking about how do you improve your skillset? So you’re always adding value to the channel. If you can do that, you’re not gonna be unemployed ever.
Jeremy Wood: Yeah, I think that’s a, great example of another skill that makes sales professionals great versus good is they look for those. folks that maybe have a, a latent need versus just an active need and try and, create their [00:42:00] own opportunities versus just receiving maybe a more, inbound type of approach.
Scott Inks: Right. Absolutely.
Jeremy Wood: Well, you’ve talked a lot about the skills you help develop with your students. What would you say is advice you have for, for students who are looking to choose their first job? So kind of deciding among job offers.
Scott Inks: Okay, so. I guess, and I’ll answer this question maybe not in what exactly we wanted. My first bit of advice is get engaged early. So when you’re a freshman, get connected with whatever discipline you’re in. Get connected with the people who are juniors and seniors, and those faculty people who are connected with the employers.
Start networking right away. Start looking for the. how do you best position yourself so that when you, when you are ready to get to a job, you do have multiple offers? I mean, we’ll get students to come in and say, I’ve got a big problem. What’s your problem? Well, I’ve got three job offers. I don’t know which one to pick.
Well, [00:43:00] okay, let’s redefine what a problem is because that’s not really a problem. You know? something can work through. But my advice once you get into that situation, is to help them try to figure out, okay. what’s your feeling about that role?
What do you see yourself comfortable? Because don’t wanna be doing. Something that you don’t like or that you’re unsure of. and you know, you need to, I, I think once you make a decision, you need to lean into it and not look back, not second guess yourself.
Just move forward with it and get the most out of it you can. I will always, you know, over the years, the, the idea about does the money matter, seems to, you know, it’s, it seems to shift and I’ve asked students before, you know, what’s, what are your top things that you’ll consider? Well, you know, I, training and location and whatever, and I said, okay.
That’s, that’s good. When you get your offer letter, what’s the first thing you show to your friends? The money, you know, that. And so [00:44:00] that’s a part of it. I think you have to recognize that, that that’s still part of it, but you certainly have to be comfortable and that’s one of the advantages that the partners have with these sales centers is that students get to know those people, they get to feel comfortable with that culture.
And so that leap from college to career is a lot less scary when it’s with people they know. And I’ve had, students turn down jobs with Fortune 50 companies to go with a smaller company ’cause they know the people. I know these people, I’ve interacted with them. Maybe I’ve had an internship with them, whatever it might be, but I feel comfortable there and there.
And there they go.
Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, that’s great. Now let’s take it a little bit more broad. We have a lot of listeners who are out of school or, you know, Know, maybe the time has passed and they’re not able to, get involved in a sales program at their university. What advice would you give to one of our listeners who’s interested in a career in sales but doesn’t know where to start?
Is it people interviews, podcast books? Like where would you suggest someone start if they’re interested in a professional selling career?[00:45:00]
Scott Inks: I would suggest listening to all your podcasts first. Right. Okay. That would be the best advice I can give them.
Kristen Wisdorf: Thanks, Scott.
Scott Inks: Yep. Sorry. Anyway, no, I think, talking to people who are in, if you said, okay, I wanna be in a sales role, what kind of sales role do you want? Talk to people who are in that sales role.
I think that the other thing is what is drawing you to that career? if it’s just the money. Then I think you’re gonna have a hard time, ’cause it’s not gonna cut it for you in, in the short run or the long run. You’ve gotta, you’ve gotta make sure that you embrace the concept of, I wanna help people get better.
I wanna make their lives different. And it’s where I’m gonna have to learn and I’m gonna have to learn how to, and communicate and listen and, and engage people and maybe kind of check their, perception of what sales is. And if it’s the wrong kind, then kinda unpack that little bit and go, no, no, you don’t, you don’t wanna do that.
You can, you can make some money at that, but not the way you want to go and, uh, read some books. I think selling with a noble purpose is probably a good place [00:46:00] to start if you’re, if you’re. A little skeptical about sales roles. Cause it really talks a lot about the value of sales and why it’s an important career and why it’s actually really important.
And,don’t be afraid to say I’m a salesperson, right? People don’t always, uh, there’s 850 different euphemisms for salesperson. So I would start there and stay away from the hack, they can get you some short-term gains, but it’s not going to help you in the long run.
Kristen Wisdorf: Absolutely. I like that. Thank you for the book recommendation as well. I know our listeners will appreciate that. Okay, Scott, we’re gonna hit you with some just fast questions. Answer first thing that comes to your mind. Nothing too deep. I don’t think you already, answered a, a good book recommendation, but, let’s see.
What are you world class at, or what do you consider your superpower?
Scott Inks: my superpower. That’s a good question. I don’t know. Having, I, I guess I, one thing that’s really good for me is the network of people I know and work with. I, I’ve got a really good connection of people that, uh, I work with that have [00:47:00] similar ideas about careers and family and that kind of thing. So I think that’s really good.
That helps to keep the momentum going, that may not be exactly what you answered, but not what you wanted. But
Jeremy Wood: No, that was
Scott Inks: I got.
Jeremy Wood: All right. which feeling is stronger for you? Okay. Loving to win or hating to lose.
Scott Inks: Hating to lose for me, I
probably,
Well, because it seems like, somehow he didn’t do something that I should have done, I guess. You know, he is always like, what did I not do? winning is good too. Especially if you, would adjust that. I like to win. If it’s the, if it’s a challenging competition, winning if it’s not challenging does nothing for me.
I don’t care if it’s a challenging competition, whatever that might be. And I’m saying selling whatever. You go into a, a challenging sales situation. Winning is great. And when it’s really challenging, winning is great. And losing isn’t so bad when it’s, Not challenging. Losing really is bad. You know, not winning is not [00:48:00] good, but losing is really bad.
So
I guess I would kind of couch that, slightly differently depending upon the, the level of the competition I’m dealing with.
Jeremy Wood: Okay, here’s one for you. is the worst sales deal you ever made?
Scott Inks: Oh, wow. okay. The worst sales deal I ever made, that’s probably back when I was in, I did health club sales for a while, it was sketchy. Okay. product itself, the membership was good. It was a good value, but it was the. Stereotypical sales process. Like, Hey, this is your price for today, and today only if you, I can’t, if you come back tomorrow, I can’t give you this price?
You know, and you’re just kinda like, bam, bam, bam, beating ’em down. but you know what happens there is you’re going, oh, I hate, I hate this. You know, you’re kind of pounding on people and they, oh, okay. Yeah. And they buy, and then they do. And you, you go, man, that. I didn’t really like that. And then somebody comes along and says, Hey, you just made $500 to you.
Hmm. Well that wasn’t so bad after all, But, that was probably it. The health club sales is probably, it was the [00:49:00] one that, that the product was good. the style of selling was shady
Kristen Wisdorf: And that probably is why you have such an aversion to that serious ad
Scott Inks: as it could
Kristen Wisdorf: stuck with you.
Scott Inks: Well, I, I also did, I did some work, witness work for a company. I won’t go into the details of it, but they were challenging the, big League book of Closing Techniques, which is a book published in the seventies. And I had to read this thing and oh my gosh, it was, It was horrifying the, the tactics that, that people would use, uh, to, to close deals.
And a lot of was focused on, you know, I hate to say it ’cause it’s a stereotype of the car industry. You know, a lot of this was, these really just unbelievably shady and lying tactics to close deals. And I’m reading this, I’m going, this is actually a book that people read, I mean, so you see that out there, and what we’re trying to do is just, just the opposite of that.
And so, yeah, that, that rubs me the wrong way for sure.[00:50:00]
Kristen Wisdorf: Okay, here’s the last one for you, Scott. If you could have a billboard anywhere in the world. Where would it be and what would it say or have on it?
Scott Inks: Oh gosh. How big could it be?
I’d say right now, right now I guess it would have to be a billboard that says something along of, Hey, peace tolerance. You know, that that’d be it right there. The biggest thing right now, uh, tolerance. try not to be a, people aren’t trying, most people aren’t trying to offend you when they say things, so just a little grace is good.
So I guess right now, given the climate, those would be, that would be my number one message. But then, uh, maybe in a, in a more closely related, message might be something to the effect of always learn, always be learning, always
be learning.
Kristen Wisdorf: That’s great. Well, thank you so much for joining us and walking us through, your career and what you’re doing at Kennesaw, what you’ve done in the [00:51:00] past. We appreciate it. And of course, the University Sales Center Alliance, it is really incredible. I mean, as someone who went to a school with a sales program, and now I’m on the recruiting end of it.
It is incredible to see how many universities are taking, professional sales curriculum seriously and giving their students the opportunity. So thank you for joining us, Scott. You’re officially a certified hustler.
Scott Inks: Oh, well thank you very much. I appreciate that.
[00:52:00]