Campus Series: Wayne Keene – Curiosity, Empathy, and Appreciation
Dr. Wayne Keene’s professional path has not been traditional. From the retail sector to work in the steel industry, and ultimately the Founding Director of the Center for Sales and Customer Development at University of Missouri, his rich background shapes his curriculum for the benefit of his students today.
The first requirement for Dr. Wayne Keene’s future sales pros is intellectual curiosity. Great salespeople understand others by listening to them, plain and simple. He doesn’t question whether you can learn these traits though, because he has seen even his toughest students develop habits to make themselves great salespeople after college.
In this episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers: Campus Series, hosts Kristen Wisdorf and Libby Galatis get a ringside seat as Dr. Keene discusses his unique career path, the struggles that led him to sales, and why he believes life can bring us to the most unexpected places.
Guest-At-A-Glance
Name: Charles Wayne Keene
What he does: Dr. Wayne Keene is a Founding Director of the Center for Sales and Customer Development at the University of Missouri. He is also an Associate Teaching Professor at the same university.
Company/Institution: University of Missouri
Noteworthy: Dr. Wayne has over 900 books at his home library, and the oldest one is from the 1860s. “I’m able to synthesize people through reading histories and biographies, and classical literature,” he says.
Where to find Dr. Wayne: LinkedIn
Key Insights
⚡Follow something you love, and the money will come after it. Although most people are money-motivated, money shouldn’t be the main goal when choosing a career. “I’ve taken a pay cut to change trajectory, and then it’s paid off in spades. So, don’t be afraid. Don’t follow the money, but follow something you love, and the money will come after it. That’s a lesson I think students should learn as well because they all want a scoreboard.”
⚡Curiosity, empathy, and appreciation are fundamental characteristics. The first requirement for Dr. Wayne Keene’s class is intellectual curiosity. “One thing that I see that is inherent in most successful people is curiosity. But I would go a little bit further – curiosity, empathy, and appreciation. Those are very important characteristics.” According to Dr. Keene, these three characteristics, including tolerance, define a successful person, especially in business such as sales.
⚡The one thing we can’t teach is how to connect with people naturally. Communication with people plays a vital role in sales, which is why Dr. Keene encourages his students to pay special attention to it. “What I want you to take away is how you communicate with people. Take a communications class, take a psych class, take a sociology class, learn about people in this, because data is just data until it’s applied to people and situations.”
Episode Highlights
Dr. Wayne Keene: Choosing What You Love Instead of Money
“Imagine you’re making $60,000 a year in New York City. But you’re in a fifth-floor walkup with eight other people on food stamps. If it’s something you love, do it. Take that hit, get ten roommates. It’s fine, but make sure you’re doing it for the right reasons.” “The best sales job I ever did was when I went to my wife, and I said, ‘Look, I got an idea. Let’s take a two-thirds cut in my salary. Let’s get rid of your entire salary. Let’s move to mid-Missouri, where we know no one. Have our first kid, so I can start teaching. And she said yes. So, somebody is pretty good at sales. We came out here, got a job, and I took a two-thirds cut in salary. It took ten years to get back to where I was when I left, but for all the betterment.”
Don’t Be Criminally Humble. Be Hardworking
“A lot of times what I see in women in sales, women in tech, or male-dominated industries, is that imposter syndrome. ‘Do I belong in all of that?’ Yes, you belong. You belong in this. You’re needed in this. Your voice, your perspective, all of these things are needed. I know you’re outworking the guys in college already. I know you’re doing these things. So keep doing that, and don’t be what I call criminally humble. Be humble, be hardworking, but don’t be criminally humble where you’re dismissing the effort.”
I’m Looking for Students Who View the World Through a Prism of Three-Dimensional Thinking
“Comfort with ambiguity. That’s a big thing because I think we’ve rubricated our students to death. Because they expect that if it’s not in the rubric, that it’s not important. Well, it is. The rubric’s not all-encompassing. I’m looking for students who view the world through a prism of three-dimensional thinking, ambiguity and looking at different solutions. We’re taught to do the most efficient thing. When we do the most efficient thing, many times, we commoditize ourselves. That’s the same thing everybody else does. So what’s the differentiator price? Who wins when you go to a low ball on price? No one.”
Students Should Push Their Faculties to Partner Up with Companies
“Push your faculty, push your colleges, and your sales programs to partner up with companies to come into the classroom. I have ten different companies that come into my classroom during the year. Seven of those do role-play with them. So the students in my classes get to see seven different companies and how their sales and the go-to-market would look before they ever have to make a decision. They get firsthand experience watching the students go through these role-plays and themselves going through one. And they can be excited about doing that role-play, and then maybe they see one they didn’t have on their radar. Those are tangible things that you can do to get people excited about this.”
Great Salespeople Have to be Able to Get to the Microphone
“I was listening to a podcast. One time a comedian was talking about what’s the difference between a comedian and a critic. And this older comedian said, ‘The last 30 feet.’ And he’s like, ‘What do you mean the last 30 feet?’ He said, ‘That’s the distance from the first row to the microphone.’ And great salespeople have to be able to get to the microphone. Everybody else sits in the front row and watches.”
Final Piece of Advice for Students and Future Salespeople
“Talk to a lot of people, get a network, get a mentor, use your resources on campus, whether you’re in a fraternity or sorority or a business organization, use those resources. Talk to other people, talk to every recruiter that comes on campus. If your college offers an Intro to Sales course, please take it. If they don’t, take an intro to communications or an intro to psychology class because what I want you to take away is how you communicate with people. That’s the biggest part of sales.”
Transcript:
[00:00:06] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:00:06] Welcome back, hustlers, to another episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers campus Campus. I’m going to start over, sorry. Kristen usually starts this right. Um, Welcome back, hustlers, to another episode of the Tech Sales is for Hustlers Campus series. I am Libby Galatis.
[00:00:23] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:00:23] And I am Kristen Wisdorf.
[00:00:25] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:00:25] And today we have Dr. Wayne Keene from the University of Missouri.
[00:00:30] He’s the director of sales there. Welcome, Wayne.
[00:00:33] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:00:33] Thank you ladies. So, it’s a pleasure joining you all on this podcast today.
[00:00:37] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:00:37] We’re really excited to pick your brain, , um, learn more about your program and your backgrounds, and those that have , uh, listened to the podcast before, we usually start off by asking one of the most important questions that we ask our candidates when we interview them. What is your 62nd snapshot? We’re interested in your highlight reel.
[00:00:57]Um, Tell us a bit about who you are and how you became you know, the person you are today.
[00:01:02] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:01:02] Absolutely. So, uh, The way I always answered this question is, I grew up dirt-poor in the middle of the cornfield in Illinois. Um, My , uh, parents lived in a small town and we were close to a metropolitan area, but we were more of a bedroom community. And , um, we were typical you know, lower middle-class family in that sense.
[00:01:18]Um, But when I was in third grade, my dad lost his job. And we spent about the next eight years in the economic wilderness, , um, you know, we lost our house, we had to move, , uh, food stamps, you know, that whole thing. I remember having the blue lunch card when everybody else had a green one, uh, so they’d make sure that they knew I was poor, , uh, that kind of thing.
[00:01:33] And so, um, you know, we, we struggled through that and , uh, my dad you know, did everything he could, , uh, worked odd jobs, everything to give us an opportunity. Adding you know, a a little bit more degree of difficulty, I’m an identical twin. So every cost was doubled , uh, for everything that we did. And , uh, so, it was a, it was a struggle, but it was a, it was a good thing.
[00:01:50]Uh, I learned a lot. I learned a lot about overcoming adversity at a very young age. I went to work very young, working in , uh, you know, bean fields, mowing yards, going to work at Walmart, working midnights there. Um, I was a janitor at Walmart; um, went to work at a steel mill at a local steel mill, 3000 degrees, molten lava everywhere.
[00:02:08] And, the old school college wasn’t something that was on the horizon, uh, just in the town where we grew up. I was good in school. Good in high school. Good uh, academics. Good athlete. Uh, But it just wasn’t, , um, wasn’t on the horizon. So I did those jobs and then I got a chance to go into sales. Yeah. And it turns out I was pretty good at it.
[00:02:26] And , um, then I went back and got my degree when I was a working adult at 29-years-old. Got my master’s degree. , uh, About a year and a half later was a general manager. Then got into , uh, teaching and I’ll fill in the blanks as we go along. But that’s really you know, the, the crux of it, right? That , um, you start out and things don’t go the way that you thought,
[00:02:44] and then you just keep working. You keep working hard to keep your head down, you do what you can in the circumstances. And then, when opportunity meets that preparation, some real good things can happen. And, And sales was the vehicle , uh, for that, , uh, for me.
[00:02:56]libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:02:56] I mean, You have such an incredible upbringing to start. I mean, It’s true. Rags to riches, right? You picked yourself up and yeah, pushed yourself into the position that you’re in now. I think that that’s, that’s incredible. So, um, I want to take a step back and talk a bit about what that first experience in sales was like for you.
[00:03:11] How did it come about? Did it land in your lap? Was that intentional? Just tell us a bit about just how, how it happened.
[00:03:17]dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:03:17] Not, Not intentional at all. Um, It was actually one of these things where I was working as a laborer in the steel mill and we were on break one day and I noticed a flyer , um, that they were looking for an inside sales professional. And, the guys that I was with, I’d been there about two years, and the guys I was with said, “They never
[00:03:35] do this, they never have a flyer like this in here. I wonder what this is all about.” And I remember it turned into, one of the guys is like, , well, “I wish they could hire somebody who could sell this stuff, so we’d stopped getting laid off.” And he said, , well, “Why don’t you try?” And I was like, “Why would I do it?”
[00:03:49] He said, , well, “You worked at Walmart, you know, you got customer service and we all call you, call you college anyway. You might as well try it.” And I was like, , well, All “All right.” And as it turned out, i’ve made an impression on the HR manager who was in charge of that when she had hired me two years before I came to the interview for a labor position in a double-breasted suit.
[00:04:07] My grandpa had grandpa told me you wear a suit to an interview. So I spent the last 200 bucks I had in my banking account at Macy’s to get this suit, brown pinstripe, very nice suit, by the way. Um, But, i, I walked in there and she goes, “Do you know what you’re interviewing for?” I said, “A job that pays double what I make at Walmart?”
[00:04:25] And she’s, like, yeah, but it’s, you know, dah, dah, dah, so anyway, she had remembered me and I sent something in, and I was working midnights at the time, so I got off of midnights. Uh, I’d gone in at, at, , uh, what was it, nine o’clock in the evening and got off at like seven in the morning. And I went home, got a shower,
[00:04:40] shaved, drove to St. Louis, in the Metropolitan Square building, 42 floors of that, spent the entire day in an interview. I had not had any sleep in about 30-some odd hours. And, on the way home, I got a call and they said, “We’d like for you to start in, , uh, in sales.”
[00:05:01] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:05:01] Talk about taking an opportunity and going for it. I’m just noticing the flyer and having the conversation, and, with you know, your colleagues, and I guess the, the guts, the courage, the confidence, whatever to put yourself out there. Um, I think that students nowadays and people in their first job in sales can learn a lot from that because you weren’t afraid of hard work and work ethic with the types of jobs that you did,
[00:05:25]uh, but also you weren’t afraid to invest in yourself and go buy that $200 suit to get to the next job or the next thing that you wanted.
[00:05:32] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:05:32] Well, and here’s a couple of things about that. So, number one, I’ve still got the scrap piece of paper that I wrote the thing down on it from 1997, it’s still in my possession. But, the other thing is, when I did the calculations, if I would have worked a full year in the labor, , uh, mill, in the mill because of , uh, overtime and other things I would have made X amount of dollars.
[00:05:54] This sales position, I actually took a $5,000 a year pay cut. If everything, now I didn’t work all the time because we’d get laid off, right. but because of this, in reality, people like, man, “You sure you want to do this? You’re going to take a pay cut.” So, most of my biggest career changes I’ve taken a pay cut
[00:06:12] to change trajectory and then it’s paid off in spades. Right? And so, don’t be afraid, don’t, don’t follow the money always, follow up, follow something you love and the money will come after it. And, And that’s a lesson I think students should learn as well because they all want a scoreboard. Like, “Hey, I’ve got this job, pays this much.
[00:06:30] I got this paid this much.” Well, you know, That’s great, you’re making you know, $60,000 a year in New York City, but you’re in a fifth-floor walkup with eight other people on food stamps. Right. So, you want to make sure that it’s, and if it’s something you love, do it, take that hit, you know, get 10 roommates,
[00:06:45] it’s fine, but make sure you’re doing it for the right reasons.
[00:06:49] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:06:49] Yes, it’s important, but it’s not the most important thing always. Um, We have a funny little quip here, we like to say, you know, um, uh, you know, “The early college you know, sales professional, their favorite four-letter word is base.” Um, But, which is, which makes sense, right? Because you know, you’re money motivated people when you’re in sales, which is a good thing, but I think it’s really important
[00:07:08] what you just said, you were willing to bet on yourself and to bet on what you were going to get out of the experience to take that pay cut. Um, And, you were willing to you know, take the, , uh, take the chance to spend the last $200 you had to get the suit, right? Like, it’s about taking chances and betting on yourself and betting on what it’s going to do for you in the long run.
[00:07:26] And that’s a really good story.
[00:07:28] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:07:28] And, ladies, here’s the best part about it. The first day I was on the job, I sat and stared at a computer for eight hours because I didn’t know how to turn it on. I graduated
[00:07:38] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:07:38] No way.
[00:07:39] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:07:39] high school in 1990. I did my senior paper on typewriter. Then I went to work for Walmart, no computers you know, there for what I was doing in maintenance and janitorial and all that.
[00:07:50] Then I went to the steel mill, no computers there. Now, all of a sudden it’s 1997. I’m like, “What is this?” So, I’ve got a brother who’s a four and a half years younger than me. So, I’ve got an identical twin, and then one is four and a half years younger. I called him. I said, “How do you turn these things on?”
[00:08:06] And then, there we go, because all of a sudden , right, it’s 1995, 97, Windows 95, Windows 97, the world had changed, but luckily, and here’s the part of the secret to my success is I grew up in an analog world, but I was only 23, 25 when digital hit. So, I was still young enough to jump on that. So I process
[00:08:29] things in an analog way, understanding the digital tools that help me be successful. And I think that’s something that I’ve got both, the tech and the analytics, but I’ve also got the personal and, and the, the analog side of it.
[00:08:45] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:08:45] Yeah, absolutely. Wow. That’s a, That’s a great start to our conversation today. I think it can resonate with a lot of people who you know, jump into sales unexpectedly, or it, you know, they happen to see a job posting that they hadn’t considered, , um, or they have to re, work really hard to get where they are, and sales is a great opportunity to kind change your life, which is exciting.
[00:09:05] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:09:05] That’s absolutely right.
[00:09:08] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:09:08] Talking about learning curve, , um, you know, not, not being even able to use the computers for starting that role, um, I’m interested just to dive more into that initial sales position, mostly because of the position that we hire for at memoryBlue is so entry level. Um, What do you think your biggest challenge was in, in that experience?
[00:09:24] Maybe you can tell us a handful of, , uh,
[00:09:26] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:09:26] You turned the computer on. Of course.
[00:09:28]dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:09:28] But, But that’s a, that’s a funny thing. And so, once I turned it on, I looked at again, “What am I actually working with here? What do they want?” And so, they wanted someone who could do proactive Inside Sales. They’d always been reactive. They, They had customer service, but they never done a proactive. So they said, “We want somebody to get on the phones and just kind of start jamming calls.” Right.
[00:09:47]Dial for dollars, and that type of thing. I said, “Okay, , well, we can do that.” And, like six weeks in, they’re like, , well, “Your calls have dramatically dropped in the number of calls you’ve made.” I said, “Because I’ve gotten customers and now I have to service those customers. And there’s a lot of things that are causing me time blocks.”
[00:10:05] And so again, this is 1997, I’ve got a14,4 modems sitting next to my phone, squeaking at me when I try to do anything on CompuServe or Mosaic or whatever the browser was at that time. Right. And so, what I did was, okay, how can I create some efficiencies here? So I worked with the tech guys, and when I say tech guys, I mean, the people who worked our mainframe, we had an entire building that had a gigantic computer in it,
[00:10:30] and all it did was spit you know, information at you, it wasn’t a graphical user interface or anything like that. So I said, “Can we take all this information we’ve got in there and dump it into something where I can see it faster and I can get the phones going faster?” And we used an off-the-shelf, very early rudimentary , um, CRM system called Maximizer,
[00:10:51] and we combine those two things, and I built, I had them build some algorithms out. I talk them through this process. Now, fast forward, almost 30 years, Marc Benioff is rich with salesforce.com. I was like, “God, I was doing that then, why, why didn’t I do anything with it?” But anyway, no sour grapes. I’m glad you know, he’s rich.
[00:11:12] I’ve been there, to, to Salesforce. It’s cool. But here’s the other thing, is, I took my analog understanding of algebra and I built pricing algorithms on an old Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet program. That was an old IBM program. There was one computer PC sitting in the back of the sales office. We would have to get up from our phones, walk to a desk in the middle of the office, flip through a three-ring binder to find out the discounts for the customer
[00:11:42] we were on the call with. Like, we can’t, we can’t do this. That’s all kinds of, so I was making efficiencies through these things. I was making the technology work for me.
[00:11:58] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:11:58] That is awesome. I actually think about you know, 20, 30 years from now, when we talk to your students that are in your classes and they say, “Yeah, back when I had my laptop working, doing school from home, you know, learning all about Salesforce and it’s like a distant memory.” So, it’s crazy how quickly things change.
[00:12:17] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:12:17] “That’s the old man teacher, we had had a thing called Zoom in SquadCast. What was that all about?”, you know?
[00:12:23] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:12:23] Yeah, exactly. But one thing that I will say is, you know, that first sales job of yours is actually really, kind of, although the technology is different, it’s very similar to, yes, to the job we hire SDRs for, and what they do, and , um, selling technology. So. I’m interested to know, , like, did you have any family members, anyone in your, I guess in your orbit, that could help you through that first job, that first sales job, anybody who had been in sales before, customer service, that could help you? Did you kind of feel your way through the dark and figure it out on your own?
[00:12:57] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:12:57] I had to figure it out on my own in many ways. And you know, the way that, , uh, one thing I say, because people ask , well, anybody you know, in, in sales in that, no, , uh, you know, my family had all been in labor and manufacturing, and things like that, but you know, my grandfather, and that’s who I’m named for, so my first name is actually Charles.
[00:13:16] Yeah. And, And, I’m, I’m named for my grandfather. He was , um, he, w, he was a painter, and when I say a painter, he painted offices, right? At, At McDonald Douglas in St. Louis. And he would go around the buildings for 25 years, around that campus, just painting buildings and stuff. And he was just a great personable person.
[00:13:35] He never knew a stranger. He was always the glad hander around town. He held court with friends and you know, he was always the person. So, I always watched how he handled people and worked with people. And my father was that way in many ways as well. That’s where I get my middle name from, is, is Wayne, is, is , uh, from him.
[00:13:52] And so, I saw them exhibit qualities that weren’t actually in this , um, lane. Right. And so, that’s something I do now in my classes, is I look for people who exhibit qualities that we can then put in the right lane of sales because there’s all kinds of different lanes of sales. And so, what I would do was, I’m a really good listener,
[00:14:15] and I’m really good at asking probing questions and putting those things together. And so, when I would get on the phone, I could see the body language through the phone, if that makes sense, right. Through, through how they were talking, I could tell the body language and the non-verbals. And so, I would cue in on that pretty quickly and turn the conversation in a way that I could keep them on the phone longer.
[00:14:38] And that’s the way that, that I was able to really move that. And I’m a student of people. , um, Growing up poor, like I did, the one factor, the one equalizing factor that I had was, we had a Carnegie library in our town, an old Carnegie library, and it was a free public library. I outread everyone. That That’s the key to success.
[00:15:01] Is I outread everyone. I’ve, in my house right now I’ve got close to 900 books. My oldest one is from the 1860s, and I’m able to synthesize people through reading histories and biographies and classical literature.
[00:15:20] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:15:20] That is such great advice. Um, I mean, it it’s, It’s interesting , you, you didn’t have access to so many resources and you were able to, to still build something , um, where I think many wouldn’t have seen opportunity. You sort of built it for yourself. Um, From From a motivation standpoint, and we talk a bit about what people are motivated by, what salespeople are motivated by money, all that stuff.
[00:15:39]Um, When you were in that transition, when you jumped into that sales role, what was your biggest motivator? What pushed you? Um, ‘Cause it’s hard to imagine that there were major long-term goals attached to that because it was uncertainty and you know, a completely unfamiliar territory. I’m curious, like, what, what was your biggest motivator to succeed, jumping into that opportunity?
[00:15:56] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:15:56] Let me say what mine was, and then I’m going to turn that into something that can be more generalizable. Okay. So for me, I remember very distinctly, I get in there and I have no degree, I have no college, nothing, you know, and everybody else had college degrees. And one of the things they said when they hired me was,
[00:16:13]you know, “The college degree is great, but we need somebody who understands the steel and you know, you can jump in there a lot quicker than they can, and you’ve got these characteristics.” And I remember distinctly one of the folks on the existing sales team said, “Great, now that just diminishes the value of my college degree.”
[00:16:30] I was like, , well, “I’m going to show you.” And so, it’s belonging. My motivation was, “I’m going to show you I belong.” And so, I was out hustling, out working, when they were going home I was doing, you know, I was still working algorithms. They all had access to the same computer I did. They just didn’t go turn it on.
[00:16:49]Right. Once I learned how to turn it on, I’ve never turned it off. And so, that was my motivation, was, “I’m going to show you I belong. I’m going to show you I have value in this.” And so, what I want people to understand about this, and especially a lot of times I see , um, women in sales, women in tech or male dominated industries, is that impostor syndrome,
[00:17:08] “Do I belong?”, and all of that. Yes, you belong. You belong in this, you’re needed in this, your voice, your perspective, all of these things are needed. I know you’re outworking the guys in college already. I know you’re doing these things. So keep doing that and, and don’t, don’t be what I call, criminally humble.
[00:17:27]You, You don’t have to be a jerk about it, but you also have to let people know that thing, that you’re doing things, that, , that, that you’re creating some successes. So, don’t be criminally humble, be humble, , be, be hardworking, but don’t be criminally humble where you’re dismissing the effort and, and the, the outcomes that you’re getting in this.
[00:17:46] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:17:46] Yeah, your accomplishments, that’s, that’s amazing. I, you made a comment that you had the same access to the same computer. I think what makes okay salespeople good, and what makes good salespeople great, and what makes the great salespeople elite, is what they do with the resources and the access they have and how they’re able to you know, take advantage of it and work hard and use the resources and outread everyone.
[00:18:13]Right. And, you never turn the computer off, that’s such a great , um, example of what it really takes to take yourself to the next level in sales or really in
[00:18:23] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:18:23] life. One of my favorite memes out there is , uh, “Never forget you have as many hours in the day as Beyonce.” Yeah.
[00:18:31] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:18:31] You can be a queen, too. Um, Okay. You made a comment earlier about how , um, your grandfather, I think, and your, , uh, who’s a painter, and your father had qualities, about them. Um, Let’s talk a little bit about the students in your program and the qualities that you look for in future salespeople. What do you think are, you know, if there’s someone listening to this podcast and they don’t maybe have access to a sales program or classes at their school, what qualities do,
[00:18:57] might they possess that might make them good at a job in sales, whether it’s Inside Sales, Outside Sales, Customer Success, et cetera.
[00:19:05] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:19:05] Comfort with ambiguity, that’s a big thing because I think we’ve rubriced our students to death, um, because they expect that if it’s not in the rubric than it’s not important. Well, Actually it is, right? The rubric’s not all encompassing. Um, There are more options in life that A, B, C or D, it’s not a multiple choice test.
[00:19:25] It’s a lifelong, long answer test, is what it is. And so, I’m looking for students who view the world through a prism of, of , um, you know, three-dimensional thinking, , uh, ambiguity, , uh, they’re they’re looking at different solutions. I do a little exercise in my class, and, , um, well, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll give it in a little different context, so I don’t blow it up to be able to use it in the class.
[00:19:47]Right. But, But think about this. Right. We’re conditioned that, if, , uh, let’s say you threw a pin down on the floor and you’re between you and the pin, and I say, “Okay, pick up that pen.” Well, People just walked straight towards it, right. and they handed it, they pick it up and they hand it to them and they smile,
[00:20:01] “Look, I’ve solved the problem.” I say, , well, “How else could you have solved that problem?” Well, Then they’re stumped. Well, There’s 360 degrees of how they could have approached it. They could have taken a tool and pulled it towards them. They could have done all these things. Now, we’re taught to do the most efficient thing.
[00:20:17]Well, When we do the most efficient thing, many times we commoditize ourselves, that’s the same thing everybody else does. So, what’s the differentiator? Price. Well, Who wins when you go to low ball on price? No one. So what we should be looking at is, , well, why does the pen need to be picked up? What, or are there other options that we could use instead of that?
[00:20:34] Do you have a different problem? Maybe the problem is not that the pen fell down, but maybe your grip is poor, maybe we need to look at carpal tunnel syndrome. You know, There’s all of these things that we could ask instead of just you know, immediately being programmed to, “I’m just going to pick up the pen like everybody else did.”
[00:20:51] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:20:51] I think that that is an incredible point and correlates, I mean, obviously, we’re talking about sales, but that sense of curiosity, asking questions, you know, you’re not going to gather that information unless you ask, and that, , um, being in your nature, I think is
[00:21:04] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:21:04] So, Libby, did you read my syllabus before this? Because, the very first, the very first requirement for my class listed on the syllabus is intellectual curiosity. So go ahead.
[00:21:13]libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:21:13] I mean, And that’s it. In, In any type of, , um, especially when you’re doing business development or sales development, like what we do at, at memoryBlue, you have to gather information. That’s what you, you are, you don’t want to info dump a bunch of information about your solution or product on somebody that
[00:21:26] you don’t know whether or not it would be a true fit for them. So that curiosity is so important. And that’s an incredible point. , um, With that said, you know, I think we’ve talked about , um, you know, what’s teachable when it comes to strong salespeople, you want to share perspective and educate them just to prepare them.
[00:21:39] Do you think that there are certain qualities of strong or successful salespeople that, regardless of the professor you’re learning from or what someone’s telling you, you can’t teach certain qualities? Do you believe that , um, any of those you know, are kind of inherent or you’re born with? What needs to be in place for you to really find success in a sales role that you might not necessarily receive from a classroom?
[00:22:01] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:22:01] I think along those lines, and there there’s, there’s some controversy, and I say that very lightheartedly, right. but there’s some controversy around this idea, but, one thing that I see, , um, that is an inherent in most successful people is what you just said, right. that curiosity. But, I would go a little bit further is, that it’s,
[00:22:22] curiosity, empathy and appreciation. So, those are characteristics I think are very important. And I think, what is taught to, to give a broad example here, I think what is taught many times is tolerance. I think what’s inherent that makes people very successful is appreciation. And here, here’s the difference, right?
[00:22:49]When we’re, When we’re taught tolerance, , the, the root of that is I’m going to tolerate you. It means I’m not necessarily in your corner, but factor say, I have to be this way, and appreciation is just a natural appreciation for whatever. Right. And so, what I learned, even though I didn’t get on a plane as a con, consciously,
[00:23:12] I was two years old, I flew back from, from , uh, Washington, where my dad was stationed in the Air Force. Till I was 25 years old, I lived in a community that looked exactly like me. Very small, insular community. But because I read, because I did all these things, I had an appreciation for a large world. And so, when I first went into sales and my first sales trip was to Manhattan to Times Square, to work with an importer, exporter, in 1997, New York City, not Disney New York City, 1997, New York City.
[00:23:48] And I was like, , well, “This is interesting.” Well, Let’s see what I can appreciate about this. Let’s see, instead of having these walls up or these other things I could connect with people. So, I think the one thing that we can’t teach is how to naturally connect with people. We can teach some, some skills to help people connect, but it’s, it’s this way.
[00:24:10]Right? So, Libby, I don’t know if people will be able to see this, but you’re wearing glasses. So, um, Are those just blue-light glasses or do you have to actually wear glasses?
[00:24:18] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:24:18] So I’m wearing contact lenses, but I, so I wear
[00:24:21] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:24:21] Okay. So, the first thing you do in the morning is the reach-over. You reach to get the glasses so you can start your day. Okay. Now, we’ve taught you how to compensate for that thing that you lack. You lack the vision, but somebody who’s never had glasses, they just naturally do it, right, Kristen, you just, you don’t even think about it.
[00:24:43] You just naturally do it. And so, I use the example of a chameleon. Salespeople have to be chameleons. They have to be different things to different people, but it’s not an affectation that we put on. It can be, we can teach you those affectations, but if someone’s naturally a chameleon, because where does the chameleons colours come from?
[00:25:03] Do they get a paint brush in the desert and paint it on? No, it’s inside them. So, if someone has that inside them, they are naturally going to be drawn and be better at dealing with people and be better at sales. I can teach you all the affectations. I can teach you all of the glasses, but there’ll be some times, Libby, that you forget your glasses.
[00:25:23] There’ll be some times when your contacts dry out, but Kristen doesn’t have to worry about that.
[00:25:31] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:25:31] Just dropping knowledge bombs left and right here. , um, Your perspective is, , uh, it’s just so genuine and, and I can tell that you’re so passionate. I’m jealous of the students that get to sit in your classes and, and learn from you. Um, I want to take a step back and talk about that, an initial role and , um, kind of translate it to the students that you have graduating
[00:25:48] and you know, they’re, they’re going into that first role postgrad. Um, You mentioned that you have to find out what you love and dive head first into that and be passionate about it, you know, love what you do, um, and I think a lot of students struggle with that. You know, Your first job out of school,
[00:26:00]what, what does that actually mean? Um, What is most important? Because 90% of the time, it’s not going to be your forever job. So, um, what, what, What kind of advice do you provide for your students when they are kind of weighing out their options with so many opportunities in front of them? What things, what should they really be looking to get out of
[00:26:15]dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:26:15] So, So, there’s advice, but then there’s also tangible things that we can do. .Right. So, the advice would be, talk to a lot of people, get a network, get, a, mentors, , um, you know, use your resources on campus, whether you’re in a fraternity or sorority or a business organization, use those resources. Talk to other people, talk to every recruiter that comes on campus.
[00:26:35]Um, I had a student who, , uh, now on her third , um, uh, promotion at this company, and, I begged her to come to a networking event. I said, “Just come, come out to it. It would be great. You know, if nothing else, it’s free food and drinks on the university. Right. And just come out.” And she came out and it was a company she’d never heard of.
[00:26:53] It was a B2B thing that was not you know, anything she’d ever thought of at all. She got to talking with him and as it turned out, , their, their supply chain was all about the environment. All green. Now, their go-to-market didn’t necessarily look that way, but everything leading up to that was, and she just fell in love with it.
[00:27:16] And she sent me, I don’t know how many notes, like, “I never would’ve gone to that networking event, unless you prompted me to do it.” And so, just broaden out your, your ideas on that. And then the other thing I would say to other educators are out there and other students who would be listening to this, you know, push your faculty, push your, your colleges and your sales programs to partner up with companies like you all, to come into the classroom.
[00:27:39] I have 10 different companies that come into my classroom during the year. Um, Seven of those, we do role-plays , uh, with them. So, the students in my classes, 130 some of my students a semester get to see 7 different companies and how their sales and go-to-market would look like before they ever have to make a decision.
[00:27:58] So they get you know, firsthand experience watching the students go through these role-plays and they themselves going through one, and I, I give them a list at the beginning of the semester. I said, “Choose your top three.” And I try to make sure that I get them connected with at least one of those top three,
[00:28:13] so they can be excited about doing that role-play and then maybe they see one they didn’t have on their radar, and they’re like, “Gosh, I wish I would have done that one. I want to talk to them.” Those are tangible things that you can do to get people excited about this.
[00:28:26] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:28:26] That’s a good, , uh, good advice. Talk to everyone, use all your resources , uh, because you know, 10, 20 years ago we didn’t even have sales programs and those resources to students. So, So that’s, , uh, let’s talk about that, let’s talk about the program at Missou and what you’re doing there. When and how did you decide to make the leap from
[00:28:45] your sales job into teaching?
[00:28:47] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:28:47] So, it was kind like, my first job in sales. Right. Um, And I’ll, I’ll lead up to that in a second, but it involves a pay cut. So, I finished up my degree as a working adult. And in that program, there were a lot of working professionals who were the faculty, and, and who were teaching us. And I just loved that real life experience that they had.
[00:29:09] And so, when I finished up my master’s degree, I was a month away from turning 31. So I was, it was December, uh, and then I turned 31 in January. So. When I did that, that next summer , um, I was general manager for a manufacturing company back in St. Louis. And I was still involved with the university because I had met my wife there and she worked in that program actually.
[00:29:32] And so, she was still involved, and I was involved with them, and they said, Hey, would you like to teach? You are really good student. Your presentations were great. We know you’ve got a sales background. That seems to be a great skill for teaching. I was like, “Yeah, it’s just sales. I’m teaching them, I’m selling you education.”
[00:29:47]Right. And so I said, “Yeah, actually I’d love to”, because when I was growing up dirt-poor back in the middle of nowhere, my life goal was to be a high school history teacher and coach basketball. That was where I saw the horizon. That was success for me. And now, all of a sudden, all these years later, I’m a professor and I coach my kids ball teams.
[00:30:07]Right. So, life has an interesting way of making its way around in ways you never imagined. Okay. So, that’s one lesson to take away from it. But, I was teaching and I was doing fine at my job and enjoying it, and making money, and all that kind of thing, and it just got, it, just got me, it just got me, because I was teaching predominantly , um, African-American women who were first-generation single mothers, all of that.
[00:30:33] And years before I knew this and it really came out, , um, I got a job in sales with no background, no nothing. And there were a lot of people where I work too, who had different experiences than I did, and they didn’t look like me. Okay. And I got a shot because everybody in that sales office, and I don’t, I’m not casting aspersions,
[00:30:57] I’m just looking at it through a lens, right. but, I’m a 6.2, 200 pound white male. And I was like, man, I gotta be able to do something a little bit different and help people out a little bit differently here. Right. And, And, so, and that, that was of its time. I, you know, again, I’m not making any judgment, it’s just it was in its time.
[00:31:14] And so, seeing these women and seeing what they were doing and knowing what I had gone through, I was like, , well, “This is a shame. I wish I could figure out a way to do this.” And I’d made some connections with some people and long story short, I got an opportunity to come out here to mid Missouri and teach.
[00:31:28] And , um, I always say, the best sales job I ever did was, I went to my wife and I said, “Look, I got an idea. Let’s take a two-thirds cut in my salary. Let’s get rid of your entire salary. Let’s move to mid-Missouri where we know no one, have our first kid, so I can start teaching.” And she said yes. So somebody is pretty good at sales.
[00:31:52] We came out here and we got a job and I literally took a two-thirds cut in salary. And, , um, it took 10 years to get back to where I was when I left, but, for all the betterment, right? I mean, The people that I’ve been able to impact, the, the first-generation students, the students from diverse backgrounds, all of these things that I was able to create.
[00:32:12] And so, my first teaching job was at Stevens College. It’s an all-women’s school , uh, here in Columbia. And I was kind of moonlighting over at Missou because they were growing and needed some help. And, um, uh, well, my fifth year at Stevens, I was at a conference in, , uh, in Washington DC, and I got a call from the department chair at Missou and he said, “Hey , we, we, our dean is retiring,
[00:32:35] he’s been here 20 years, he wants to make sure we have a sales program started before he leaves. You’ve been teaching sales management for us, you’ve been doing a great job. Would you, Would you like to come over and be a champion for that?” And I always say the, the funnest part about that was, they said, “We don’t have any money and we don’t know what it should look like.”
[00:32:50] And I’m like, “Great. You can’t tell me what to do. And you can’t tell me I’m doing it wrong, right?” Now, I say that in, I mean, it’s a public university, they can tell you whatever they want to. But, in that sense, it’s very entrepreneurial. Okay. Let’s do something with this. And that was the same thing that I did when I went in to that first inside sales job.
[00:33:08] “We don’t know how to do this. We’ve never done it. Will you do it?”It. And that’s what that came about. And so I said yes immediately. And, And that was 10 years ago. We started a certificate. Then we became a center. I’ve just launched an inside sales lab, first of its kind in the country. And we’re nationally recognized , uh, as, as one of the top unit sales programs and universities in the country.
[00:33:35] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:33:35] Oh.
[00:33:36] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:33:36] That is incredible. Um, I mean, That’s just such a great perspective and, and I mean, your journey, like you said, it sort of came full circle, your original goals when you were in that small town environment with, you know, so, you were just so limited in that position, and now here you are, and full circle. Um, you know, what, What courses do you teach?
[00:33:51]Uh, If you don’t mind just kind of walking us through a
[00:33:53] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:33:53] Yeah, absolutely. So when I first started the program, again, limited resources, so, you know, I’m still selling every day. I, I, I’m not telling twenty-year-old sales stories because we’re self-funded. So everything that I do is, is, is self-funded. Um, So I can tell the students the contracts I negotiated last week for new companies to join our inside sales lab.
[00:34:09]You know, Those things are every day, so I’m constantly doing that. But when we first started, we had limited resources. So a student could conceivably get a certificate in sales, and only have me as their faculty. Um, I taught retail. I taught , uh, consumer behavior. I taught principles of marketing. I taught sales management, personal selling. , uh, you know, I’ve taught the gamut of everything.
[00:34:28] First class I ever taught was an ethics class. I’ve taught personal finance. I’ve taught management. Yeah again, everything. Um, Now I’m concentrating on the personal selling class. We’ve, We’ve grown our faculty. We’ve, We’ve brought new folks on. That’s kind of the showcase class in terms of the corporate involvement,
[00:34:43] ’cause they get to see the role-plays and that’s the thing that students first do when they go in. But, we have a fantastic faculty that teach sales management. Um, Our department chair and my colleague and co-director of the center , uh, teaching advanced sales class, where they use Salesforce and other CRM, they do analytics.
[00:34:59] We just started an analytics, marketing analytics certificate. Uh, So, we’ve just grown this you know, leaps and bounds, especially over the last five years. Uh, Things really just started rolling on top of itself, and, , um, uh, and so now I can concentrate on the personal selling class and on the inside sales lab.
[00:35:17] Yep.
[00:35:17] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:35:17] Yeah. You talked earlier about how, what motivated you when you, when you were in your first sales job was , um, kind of proving that you deserve to be there and that you could belong, right? How, was there a moment, um, or, like, uh, I guess a time when you were like, “Yes, I do belong”? Right. Was there, like, a win of deal?
[00:35:39]Um, uh, I guess a time with your colleagues where you were, like, “Yes, I do belong.” I’m you know, I
[00:35:44] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:35:44] It’s funny because I still carried that into my academic career, because when I came in, I had an MBA, I didn’t have a doctorate. And so, I solved that problem by going back to school while I was doing all these other things, and I got my doctorate in educational leadership in 2017. So, Again, we were talking about the hours you have in your day, if it’s important, you’ll make time for it.
[00:36:02] And it was important to me to get that doctorate and, and do those things. And so, that was you know, an important milestone for me. I think on the sales side of it, um, you know, when I was early in my career and , um, You know, I got a sale and again, I kind of keep mementos in that, but I’ve still got the little writeup,
[00:36:20] the, , um, our VP of sales in my division had sent this , um, readout. We got these old dot matrix readouts of , uh, our sales for the day. And , um, I had closed a deal with a company we hadn’t sold to in five years and I sold two truckloads to the guy. And he wrote a note on this to our , uh, CEO, “Wayne found through telemarketing activities”, and it got kind pinned up on the board and it’s, like, okay, “He’s not just got the guy from the mill anymore.”
[00:36:52] He’s a sales rep and he knows what he’s doing. And so, that was a day that I found, “Okay, I can play in this game, and I can.” Yep.
[00:37:04] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:37:04] That’s your trophy in front of everyone. That’s great. You know, There are a lot of students or recent students who, you know, sales finds them or they end up in sales, whether it was necessarily their first choice, or all the people you’ve taught from very different backgrounds and women kind of forging their way in sales.
[00:37:23] How, what advice would you give them to know, “Hey, this is the right company for me.” And I, you know, how do you teach them or guide them or mentor?
[00:37:32]dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:37:32] Well, you know, This is something that, you know, if you’ve listened to any Ted talks, you’ve seen the assignments and NEC, , um, you know, Ted talk about the what and the why. Right. And, And that’s something that I intuitively knew, and when I heard him, I was like, “I get that. Okay. That, that makes sense.” That’s articulating what I’ve, what I’ve looked at, you know, because I sold steel pipe.
[00:37:48]Right. Nobody grows up saying I’m going to be a steel-pipe sales rep. But, what it allowed me to do was, because it was a commodity, I had to be the differentiator. And so, then it started with, well then why are you doing this? Well, I’m doing this because of X and they’re doing it because of X and do those things make sense?
[00:38:06] And so, I really think it’s important for students to figure out why are companies selling what they’re selling, what they’re selling, is it morphs and changes? Right? I’m, I’m sitting here in my office looking at an antique rocking chair and that rocking chair broke a couple of years ago. And it’s this weird metal, that, spiral spring.
[00:38:28] I was like, , well “I wonder who made it? I wonder if they’re still in business”? And I look, and it was a company that had been in business for a hundred years, in the mid 1920s, right? They’d been, they’d started in, like, the 1820s, and today they’re a financial services firm. They don’t make any furniture. And it’s, like, well, why are they financial services?
[00:38:46]Well, Because of the 1950s, they started selling stuff on credit. And then that started to become more profitable than the thing they were actually selling. And so, things morphed over time, and so, you have to ask, , well, why is this company doing what they’re doing? And is that irrespective of the widget that they’re selling?
[00:39:05]Is it, Is it a culture that I could align with, regardless of what , um, what product we’re pushing out?
[00:39:10]libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:39:10] Um, I’m curious, , um, from a, from a teaching standpoint, because I went to, to a college that didn’t have a sales program and we didn’t have sales classes like this. And, , um, I’ve learned so much on this podcast, speaking to sales professors and educators. Um, I, I want you to think about the, the earlier sales courses for maybe freshmen or sophomores that are just kind of getting their feet wet and learning.
[00:39:30] What is one thing that, if nothing else, you want your students to take away from that initial sales course? What
[00:39:37]dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:39:37] Well, I’ll answer that in two ways. Number one, intro to sales course is great. And if your college offers one, please take it. If they don’t, take an intro to communications or an intro to psychology class, , uh, because really what I want you to take away is how you communicate with people. Um, that’s, That’s the biggest part of sales, is that differentiator, because here’s why. Every company is sitting on a mountain of data.
[00:40:01] Marginally good salespeople can turn that data into some kind of information, but people who understand people and people who understand these processes and things, things that we’re talking about, turn it into insight. So you’ve got data, information and insight. And the only way you can get insight is if you understand people, so take a communications class, take a psych class, take a sociology class, learn about people in this, because data is just data until it’s applied to people and situations.
[00:40:36] And you have to be the one. You’re the last one that can make this work. We are not passing the Turing test. Yeah. Right. We were, we, the AI can push stuff back to us, but it can’t go that last 30 feet. And I was listening to a podcast. One time they were talking about a comedian was talking about what’s the difference between a comedian and a critic.
[00:40:57] And this older comedian said,”The last 30 feet.” And he’s, like, “What do you mean the last 30 feet?” He said, “That’s a distance from the first row to the microphone. And great salespeople have to be able to get to the microphone. Everybody else sits in the front front row and watches.”
[00:41:19] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:41:19] Mic drop. That’s such good advice. Um, I think that insight is incredible. Um, So, I want to transition and we have some, like, rapid-fire questions for you. A little bit more fun. Um, What is your favorite book? Professional?
[00:41:34] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:41:34] So this is going to seem weird, but this is my history background and my worldview and all of that. My favorite book is, and I’ve read it a thousand times and I’ve got 10 original copies of it, Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. And it’s by a journalist named William Shirer, and it talks about the rise of Nazi Germany and all those types of things.
[00:41:57] I read it from the standpoint of history. I read it from the standpoint of journalism, and I read it from the standpoint of a cautionary tale. And I just, if you watch and see all the personalities and the way this alchemy of evil kind of comes together, you’re like, , well, that could happen again. Because, it’s, it’s not in a, in a, in a vacuum and just being able to see those things,
[00:42:21]and, and that’s one of the first books that I read that helped me to understand different points making a whole.
[00:42:32] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:42:32] Okay. Next one. If you could have a billboard anywhere that said anything that you wanted it to say, where would it be and what would it say?
[00:42:44] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:42:44] It’d be on 267 in Illinois and it would say “He didn’t do too bad. Did he?”
[00:42:48]Uh, No. What it would be is, so, and I say that because I always joke the town I grew up in, had two roads coming in and one road going out, and it’s, like, you know, how do you, “How do you not let life and circumstance dictate your life and circumstance?”
[00:43:08] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:43:08] Who has been the most influential person in your life?
[00:43:11] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:43:11] I had a teacher and a coach , um, in, in, in that. Now, obviously, my family very influential, you know, my grandfather, like I said, and I’ll talk about him a little bit more if, if a question comes up, , uh, but I had a teacher, her name was Ms. Deathridge. And she was, I tell my students this story, she was a woman that, by the standards of the world, would not be charismatic or attractive.
[00:43:36] She had some chromosomal disorders that created male pattern baldness. She had stubble that she, she had to shave. Um, She was very short, she had issues with weight that carried itself very , um, uh, negatively on her body. Okay. She was the most beautiful woman I’ve ever met in my life. Most beautiful person I’ve ever met in my life, because she challenged us,
[00:44:00] she taught an honors class of English. She challenged us to not just memorize, but to learn, to not worry about your grade, but to worry about your understanding. And she was fantastic and we all loved her, and unfortunately all the health issues she had, she died of an enlarged heart you know, in her late forties and you know, she looked sixty at that point, and it was, it was tragic that not other students got to be with her and continue to teach.
[00:44:30]Uh, So, she’s one, and the other one in my coach, his name was Ed Settles. And I had him one year as a coach and I always joked he was a mini Pat Riley, , uh, for those of the older and the audience they’ll know who Pat Riley was, but he coached basketball for us, and I came out of junior high and early parts of high school.
[00:44:46] I was a scoring machine. Everybody, my nickname was, kind of like, The Black Hole, right? If the ball comes in, it’s not going back out, because I’m going to shoot it. And he said, “Wayne, for us to win, we need you to be a defensive specialist”, and he showed me how to be a team player. And he showed me how to put my wants in, in, at bay to the greater good.
[00:45:09] And those are lessons I’ve taken further in life, as well. And I was fortunate to , um, receive a teaching award a number of years ago. And in reading the students’ comments it reminded me that I had never properly thanked him. And I reached out to him on LinkedIn and said, “I don’t know if you remember me, but I wanted you to know how much your lessons meant to what I’ve done in life.”
[00:45:31] And I still use those.
[00:45:39] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:45:39] And , uh, I’m curious, what is, what do you think you are
[00:45:42]dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:45:42] Uh, Listening holistically. I have this ability, that, , uh, in my class and, and sometimes I can do it really quickly, sometimes it maybe takes one or two classes, but I can tell you , uh, what birth order you are in your family, what cars your, your family drives , um, whether you have brothers or sisters, I mean, there’s all kinds of things I can tell about people
[00:46:03] by just listening to them. And when I say listen I mean, the words that they’re saying, how they’re saying it, their body language, , uh, all of those things, and that’s something that , uh, was a skill that helped me be successful in sales before I knew all the terms for everything that I was doing, right, before I went back to school, was this natural, intuitive ability to be able to understand
[00:46:25] what people needed to hear, because remember in sales, it’s not what you say. It’s what they hear. And you need to be able to articulate in a way that they hear what they need to hear.
[00:46:42] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:46:42] And I have one final question for you. Um, And
[00:46:47] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:46:47] We’ll put you to the test Dr. Keene.
[00:46:52] libby-galatis-_1_04-16-2021_140802: [00:46:52] It’s a little bit more geared than those other in their first sales role. And , um, we actually have our own reps when they first start with us read this book called The Dip, and it is to address that initial downfall, that sinking feeling, questioning what you’re doing, if this is a fit for you, and there are certain people that can push through it, there are certain people that need additional support, too,
[00:47:16] and a lot of people end up just throwing in the towel because that dip is so impactful to them. What advice do you have for sales reps in that first role, that experience?
[00:47:25] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:47:25] Everything good in life is on the other side of hard work. There, there’s no going around it. So, you either trudge through it, or you turn it around down. And one of the things that we have to be careful of is, we’ve created a reset generation, right? That, at the video games not going the way you want, you just hit reset.
[00:47:46] Now, when I was growing up, I didn’t have video games. My cousin did, he was rich, but you just got to keep playing until you die. Right. Well, Now we just stop and we start again. And so, I have the mentality, and many successful people have the mentality of , well, “I’m just going to go until I die.” And others say, , well, “There’s gotta be an easier way.
[00:48:02] There’s gotta be a work around. There’s gotta be this or that.” There is nothing worth having in life that’s not on the other side of hard work. You just have to do it. Now, you can create efficiencies in that, I just told you all these things that I did, but I still have to put in the hours. And that’s something that I would tell a young salespeople, “Keep going.”
[00:48:22] And I’ll tell you one quick way that I look at this, as well. My son, he first started playing soccer at six, right? That’s a rite of passage in America. Everybody starts playing soccer when they’re six. And he came in, he asked me a question, which when he said it, it was like this very existential question.
[00:48:37] And he said, “Dad, how do you score a goal?” And I stopped for a second and I’d played soccer, I blended in it when I was in high school, and he said, how do you, “How do you score a goal?” And I said, , well, “Sean, just don’t stop.” And he, it, at six, he knew what that meant. Right. And people, to, people when they get older, they forget what that means.
[00:48:59] What that means is, think about it this way. If you’re on, if you’re watching a field of six-year-olds play soccer and you’ve got a kid running towards another kid with a soccer ball, the one who moves out of the way is the one who’s going to lose. And so, I told my son, “Don’t stop. Because other people will just move out of your way
[00:49:17] most of the time. Don’t stop yourself, make other people stop you, because most of the time they’ll get out of the way.” And he scored goals and he’s still scoring goals as a sophomore in high school. So, there you go.
[00:49:33] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:49:33] Yeah. Wow. That’s, yeah, that’s such a good, I guess, a, way to wrap up, because even if you’re in that dip and you hit the reset button, another one’s waiting for you. You have to go through it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Wow. Well, uh, Dr. Keene, we have, really, thoroughly enjoyed our chat with you today. Thank you so much for , uh, coming on to our little podcast and giving all sorts of, you know, the future generations of sales professionals, your, , um, your personal experience, because I think a lot of them can relate to it and if they can’t, they can certainly , um, learn from it and apply it in their day.
[00:50:08] dr–wayne-keene_1_04-16-2021_130802: [00:50:08] It’s been an absolute joy talking to you, ladies. And you know, I just, I tell students all the time, I have my dream job and that is to help you get your dream job. And you know, that’s what we want to do with opportunities like this, to talk to a broader audience, , uh, let them know that , uh, those dreams can start at the University of Missouri.
[00:50:24] So, we’d love to have them and they can continue on with your company, for sure. So, thank you, ladies, for having me today.
[00:50:33] kristen-wisdorf_1_04-16-2021_140803: [00:50:33] Awesome.