Episode 124: Kevin Tu – Trust the Process

Despite the surge in remote work, mB Alum Kevin Tu argues that working in the office is crucial for those entering the sales industry as they can build off the company culture and improve their overall job performance.

In this episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers, Kevin, now the Regional Head of Sales at DataVisor, discusses the benefits of quality company culture, the perks of being in-office, and the ways in which the SDR role has served as the building blocks for the rest of his career.

Guest-At-A-Glance

💡 Name: Kevin Tu

💡 What he does: He’s the Regional Head of Sales at DataVisor.

💡 Company: DataVisor

💡 Noteworthy: Kevin used to be an SDR at memoryBlue.

💡 Where to find Kevin: LinkedIn

Key Insights

⚡ A positive workplace culture can make all the difference. A healthy and positive work environment is non-negotiable for most employees, and there’s a good reason for it. Good workplace culture leads to better job performance and promotes good teamwork. Kevin says, “It’s a culture that was like, it’s fun, but you get your work done type of thing. […] It’s between getting the vibe of booking a meeting is great, but it’s also when someone else is celebrating on the other side because they just got a hat trick for the day or something like that; one, you’re happy for them, and two, the competitive side’s like, ‘Damn, I didn’t get the hat trick today.’ So it’s the environment in total that’s motivating for everybody at the same time.”

⚡ Teamwork is one of the perks of working in the office. Working from home has many advantages. However, there are also some downsides to it. For instance, when you’re working remotely, you miss out on team spirit and teamwork. Kevin says, “Being in the office, everybody is now more willing to help each other. If you’re in here and you want to be just by yourself, you’re doing great, but you don’t want to share your knowledge, it’s like, ‘I get it, you’re doing great, but come on.’ We’re all a team here at the end of the day a little bit, so we may not be in the same account, but we all want to make sure everybody succeeds.”

⚡ Working as an SDR gives you the building blocks for your career. An SDR role is a great starting point for a sales career. Kevin explains, “At the end of the day, there have to be some building blocks there. So I think, having the building blocks that you learn from here, from other people at memoryBlue, and growing from the SDR to a mid-market and then an enterprise role — having that natural progression really completes your skillset in a way. [It] makes you more valuable ’cause you could drop any of these seasoned memoryBlue people, or any AEs that have come out of this program, you can drop them in just about any company and give them six months to learn the product and start prospecting, and they can build up from there with no support.”

Episode Highlights

Messaging Is Important in Both Marketing and Sales

“I think naturally didn’t even know it at the time; I’ve been learning all those skills. As you get into tech sales, a lot of that is familiar. Understanding messaging is big. I think I helped a ton with messaging, just understanding what the product does, what the market is looking for. Is there a market for it? Who’s looking for it? And understanding that crafting the message around it gets the product out there.”

Keep It Short and Simple

“Her whole thing was like, in business in general, people don’t have time to read your page and a half. If you can get that point across in three or four sentences, and they can read it on a phone or whatever, perfect. That’s all you really need. So think: a lot of that; we go back to the messaging that we’re creating. It’s concise. It’s an elevator pitch, but in word form, if that makes sense.”

Relationship-Building Is Vital in Sales

“With people or with customers, you never know when there’s going to be an opportunity where you were good to them, and you were honest with them. And even though it didn’t work out this time, there may be a different opportunity later on. So that relationship building is super important.”

Trust the Process

“There are weeks where it’s rough too, quarters where it’s rough, but if you understand the process and trust your process, and you consistently do the right thing, it’s eventually going to balance out. You’re going to have the highest of highs, and you have the lowest of lows, and then, usually, the average is somewhere in the middle. So I think it’s consistency and knowing that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I think a lot of times as an SDR, you feel stuck, or you feel like, ‘I’ve been doing this; I’ve learned all I can learn.’ It’s like, ‘No, there’s probably quite a bit more that you can learn.'”

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Kevin Tu: You never know when it’s gonna come back around with people or with customers, right? You never know when there’s gonna be an opportunity where you were good to them and you were honest with them, and even though it didn’t work out this time that there may be a different opportunity later on, right? So, yeah, so that relationship building is super, super important.

[00:00:17] Kevin Tu in the house.

[00:00:39] Kevin Tu: As a guy.

[00:00:40] Chris Corcoran: When most people think of K2, they think of the second-highest mountain on the planet,

[00:00:46] Kevin Tu: that’s right.

[00:00:47] Marc Gonyea: or the skis,

[00:00:48] Kevin Tu: You know, I didn’t know that was a thing until I was, like

[00:00:51] Marc Gonyea: or the sy, synthetic marijuana.

[00:00:54] Kevin Tu: I have heard about that.

[00:00:55] Marc Gonyea: What?

[00:00:55] Kevin Tu: That’s recent.

[00:00:56] Marc Gonyea: You’ve heard about that?

[00:00:56] Kevin Tu: Yeah, that is recent, yeah.

[00:00:58] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, you, come on, man.

[00:00:59] Kevin Tu: Yeah, I was just born on 4/20, I don’t know anything else about, but…

[00:01:03] Chris Corcoran: K2 is in the house, the elite tech sales professional here to share some wisdom with our listeners. So, thank you for joining us.

[00:01:11] Kevin Tu: No problem, anytime.

[00:01:12] Marc Gonyea: How you been? Been good?

[00:01:14] Kevin Tu: Yeah, living the dream.

[00:01:16] Marc Gonyea: Let’s talk about, we’ll catch up, we’ll get, we’ll talk about that. Before we get into it, let’s just go back in time ’cause it’s always good for the folks listening to kind of get to know you a little bit and for Chris and I to get to know you, right?

[00:01:26] We were living, working in Virginia, we’d only see you when we come out here, right, intermittently. So, tell us a little bit about where you’re from, where you grew up, that, give us a quick and dirty on that.

[00:01:37] Kevin Tu: Okay, yeah, grew up in the Bay Area, Milpitas, it’s right in between San Jose and Fremont, it’s where the dump is, right? So, I dunno if anybody from the Bay Area knows

[00:01:48] Marc Gonyea: We, uh, we flew over it today, there you go.

[00:01:51] Kevin Tu: Yeah, grew up there. College, San Francisco State, uh, graduated, and, uh

[00:01:58] Marc Gonyea: What’d you think you wanted to be when you were a kid growing up?

[00:02:01] Kevin Tu: Thought I was gonna be a professional baseball player, that went out the window, right?

[00:02:05] Marc Gonyea: What, what position did you play?

[00:02:06] Kevin Tu: First base.

[00:02:07] Marc Gonyea: First base, okay.

[00:02:08] Kevin Tu: So.

[00:02:08] Chris Corcoran: Big hitter.

[00:02:09] Marc Gonyea: You got the body for it.

[00:02:10] Kevin Tu: Yeah, yeah, talent wasn’t quite there.

[00:02:12] Marc Gonyea: Really?

[00:02:12] Kevin Tu: But, uh.

[00:02:14] Marc Gonyea: What were you good at? Was the knit, the glove work?

[00:02:17] Kevin Tu: Probably defense.

[00:02:18] Marc Gonyea: Defense?

[00:02:19] Kevin Tu: Yeah.

[00:02:19] Chris Corcoran: Picking.

[00:02:20] Kevin Tu: Yep. So, that’s what I thought I was gonna be, and then I thought initially I was like, yeah, I’m gonna go to school for kinesiology, that’s what I wanted to do, I think, initially went there, started taking some courses, started having, you know, looking at some of the

[00:02:35] classes I had to take, right, there’s so many bio classes, so many science classes, and I’m like. Then you gotta, like, put in your hours, and you gotta put, you gotta do massages, you gotta do ankle taping, working the, uh, you know, the room and all that stuff, and I’m like, right, after it

[00:02:54] Marc Gonyea: Well, why, what about it? So, obviously, the science didn’t get you too excited, and what was it about, like, the, the room and the angle taping and all that stuff, just like, was it, did it fire you up, did it, like?

[00:03:05] Kevin Tu: Initially, ’cause I thought, I was like, look, I want to be a trainer on a sports team somewhere, you travel with the team all the time, if I can’t play, I might as well just be around, right? That was, that was my thought. And then, you realize you’re looking at feet all day, and you’re like, ah, maybe it’s, maybe it’s not as cool anymore, right? So, that, that was it.

[00:03:25] And then, I got into business, right, bus, business major, graduated with marketing degree, yeah, which when I think of it, helps a lot in this job, right, just kinda understanding, you know, marketing sales kind of works in the, a lot of well-working companies, like,

[00:03:41] marketing sales are pretty well aligned with everything, so just kind of understanding where they’re coming from, kind of their back end, just having that knowledge really does help.

[00:03:50] Marc Gonyea: So, what’d you think you were gonna do when you got outta school?

[00:03:52] Kevin Tu: Looked at all the marketing jobs, and naturally, it was, like, product marketing, right? But while I was in college, right, I think I did a lot of sales, lot sales jobs. So, my first job was Fry’s Electronics, I don’t know

[00:04:04] Marc Gonyea: Fry’s, yeah.

[00:04:05] Kevin Tu: Yeah. So, started stocking shelves, like, first year in college, and…

[00:04:10] Marc Gonyea: They’re outta business, no?

[00:04:12] Kevin Tu: I think they are.

[00:04:13] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, they’re the Circuit City of the West, yeah?

[00:04:15] Kevin Tu: There was that new movie, um, the Jordan Peele movie, the, uh, UFOs, and we’re watching the trailer.

[00:04:20] Marc Gonyea: That stuff obscures making him watch this.

[00:04:22] Kevin Tu: I was watching the trailer, and the Fry’s tech truck pulls up, and, uh, my wife goes, “Look! It’s Fry’s!” “What?” So, but yeah, selling TVs throughout college, I sold cell phones at Sprint for a while. So, I always had, like, sales background even throughout college, and, you know, marketing kind of aligned a little bit with there

[00:04:44] ’cause there’s a lot of, like, product marketing, kind of getting markets, products to market, right, is really a lot of what I was studying

[00:04:49] Marc Gonyea: And natu, yeah, and you said naturally, is that because they go to FS State and you’re in the middle of Silicon Valley?

[00:04:54] Kevin Tu: Yeah.

[00:04:55] Marc Gonyea: Is that, ’cause some schools, you know, you go to school at Blackford, Virginia, there’s not a lot of tech, there’s some, but there’s not a lot of tech there compared to here, right? Some engineering stuff, I guess, not. So, the, the focus was on that as a marketing major, more like hey, kind of product marketing side of that house, there’s “Keep shh, they’ll talk about sales.” Was it like that?

[00:05:13] Kevin Tu: Not “Don’t talk about sales,” but like, how do we position ourselves, like, these new products and stuff like that in the space, right? So, I think naturally didn’t even know it at the time, right? But learning all those skills as you get into, like, tech sales, a lot of that is familiar, right, understanding, like, messaging is big, right? I think I helped a ton with messaging, just kind of understanding the product does what the market is looking for, is there a market for it?

[00:05:42] Who’s looking for it? And understanding that having the message around it, kind of get the product out there, right? So, it, it aligns pretty well, I think, with the, uh, degree, thankfully, right?

[00:05:53] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, no, going to waste of my time, I mean, I think it certainly helps you even more now that you have more experience in looking back at the product and base, and then, I’m sure you look at your internal marketing team a little differently, having that background versus not, like you major kinesiology, maybe look at taping someone’s ankle differently, I don’t know, or an injury or something,

[00:06:13] anatomy, but like, with this, you can actually kind of go talk to the marketing person, the product marketing person, have a different perspective.

[00:06:19] Kevin Tu: Yeah, absolutely, and it’s a more productive conversation when you have with marketing, like, kind of give ideas and stuff like that of have we done this,

[00:06:27] like, here are my thoughts on this, and kind of bridging that gap, right? Because I think my biggest thing is, like, marketing is you understand the market from, like, out here, and then sales kind of narrows it down a little bit. So, understanding the marketing side of, you know, the macro view of what we’re trying to do versus, and how do we pair that down into the more, like, precise conversation with the customer. So, having those two conversations is really important.

[00:06:51] Marc Gonyea: We’ll jump around a little bit here, but since we’re on this marketing angle, let’s run around a little bit. When you were an SDR, or even out of school. So, why’d you think about not getting into marketing?

[00:07:03] Because you don’t talk about marketing how you were talking about kinesiology. So, I’m kinda curious by, at some point, you didn’t make the jump even early, right away, or even a little bit later on before you got your stripes.

[00:07:13] Kevin Tu: Yeah. So, marketing, ’cause marketing’s so broad, right? I think it was, like, what did I want to market? Where did, where did I want to work, right? So, I looked around at a couple places and, you know, had a couple interviews, but nothing really, like, stood out of, like, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life type of thing. And then, while I was doing my search, Tiana Bell, I dunno.

[00:07:36] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, TKO.

[00:07:37] Kevin Tu: There you go. So, Tiana reached out to me and was like, “Hey, we’re recruiting for memoryBlue.” I was like, no clue what memoryBlue was, did a little bit of research, was like, okay, tech sales, whatever. So, I was like, “Sure, I’ll take that interview.”

[00:07:50] So, had that interview, had the call with Tiana, went great and initially had the conversation, I think my first interview was Dan, Dan Yorkey.

[00:08:01] Marc Gonyea: Dan Yorkey.

[00:08:02] Kevin Tu: Yeah. So,

[00:08:02] Marc Gonyea: One and only.

[00:08:03] Kevin Tu: uh, had, did my, what is that, the, the role play with him, right, and a lot of it was just like, this is what I’ve done for a few years, just kind of talking to people, kind of having conversations, right? So, it felt more at home, right, for me, and I was like, okay, cool. So, then I took the job, and I was like, I don’t know if my whole thing was, like, look, this is, like, first job, I’ll try it, I’m interested, if I don’t like it, I can always transition out of it later on, right?

[00:08:29] And I think just the environment here, the people you meet, and like, conversations you have, calling on people, talking to different people every day, it’s like, naturally just kind of built on each other, right? Like, one step at a time, keeps going, and then here we are.

[00:08:45] Marc Gonyea: And you were, you were the T-Mobile for three years, over three years. So, like, how did that, just ’cause we have people who have that sort of background in college, or not in college or high school, whatever. How did that shape your, what you thought about sales?

[00:09:01] Kevin Tu: It’s different. So, it’s the biggest difference, I would say it’s probably more, more aligned to being an SDR than it is being, like, an account executive, I would say, it’s part of a building block, though because, uh, I know probably everybody, listeners, have walked through a mall and you have your guys in the sprint T-Mobile shirt, Verizon shirt, standing in the booth and their whole job is to try to get you to come and talk to them about your phone plans, right?

[00:09:28] So, it’s more transactional, and I think as an SDR when you’re prospecting, it’s been more transactional, right? It’s not the six-to-nine-month sales cycle, it’s right now, let’s talk tomorrow, the meeting’s, let’s talk tomorrow, let’s talk in the next two days. So that, that transitioned better, right? And it’s really, it really just, like, a building block,

[00:09:50] and I think having the confidence of talking to people a ton, getting, like, there was no fear of, like, talking to new people, I think that really does help. So, initially, when I was typing up, like, my resume, I’m like, this is even relevant type of thing, but it, it is

[00:10:05] Marc Gonyea: Oh, definitely is, yeah.

[00:10:06] Kevin Tu: Yeah, a ton of relevance, yeah.

[00:10:08] Marc Gonyea: All right. So, when you were going through the interview process with the memoryBlue, just walk us through that, do you, what do you remember?

[00:10:15] Kevin Tu: So, it was the initial call with Tiana, the screen call, right? And then I got this, like, packet of like a, essentially a situation, right, and you were gonna do a mock call in your first, in your first meeting.

[00:10:31] Great, sounds great. Didn’t know who I was meeting with, no clue where the office was, and the old San Jose office was awful to find parking there.

[00:10:38] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, yeah, you can fill the hay, but he said that, right?

[00:10:43] Kevin Tu: Yeah. So, I have no clue where the office was at first, and then parking was awful. So, once I got in there, did our mark, mock call with Dan, I think, I think at the time Joe was on his, might have been his 3K holiday.

[00:10:57] Marc Gonyea: Okay, okay. There you go.

[00:10:59] Kevin Tu: So, I think he was on his 3K, so I didn’t talk to Joe during

[00:11:02] Marc Gonyea: Did you take one of those?

[00:11:03] Kevin Tu: I didn’t. So, what was funny was my first day and last day at memory Blue was the exact day, one year, I think, it was.

[00:11:12] Marc Gonyea: Really?

[00:11:13] Kevin Tu: So, it was like a birthday.

[00:11:14] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, or anniversary. That’s awesome.

[00:11:16] Kevin Tu: So, it was, like, either like a day or two off, but I think the signed contract was like the exact day. Yeah, the interview process, I think, I’m assuming it went great ’cause, you know

[00:11:25] Chris Corcoran: Got the offer.

[00:11:25] Kevin Tu: I got the offer, yeah, one thing that did come up was, so at the time, I was living in, in Hayward, so that was a little bit away, right? And think part of the concerns was, will I stick around and admit the drive, right? ‘Cause commute sucks but took a chance, I guess, you guys took a chance like, “Okay, fine, you know, we approved him, but he’s a little further away, he said, ‘I’ll make a drive.”’ So, making the commute for about a year or so.

[00:11:51] Marc Gonyea: From Hayward?

[00:11:51] Kevin Tu: From Hayward, and uh, I think my first client, uh, I dunno if you, EducationSuperHighway.

[00:11:56] Marc Gonyea: Okay. Oh, yeah, like the, uh.

[00:11:57] Kevin Tu: It’s like a, it’s like a nonprofit we were calling on, right? So, I was like, all right, I will take the East Coast account. So, I, because if I come in anytime after six, it’s gonna take me, like, an hour and a half to get to work. So, we had a call starting eight o’clock in the morning, East Coast time. So, my day would start at five, essentially. So, I’m in the office at, like, 4:45, 4:30, get coffee, getting ready, and then you’re just dialing through that list until, and I’m taking lunch at, like, nine when people are rolling it, like, call blitz is starting, and I’m like, all right, well, it’s lunchtime.

[00:12:34] Yeah. So, it’s like, 9:00 AM and then, you know, call the rest of the day, done at, like, 2:30, 3:00-ish type stuff. So, yeah, I think it worked out as far as timing-wise, right, I always took the East Coast accounts ’cause I can drive in here, but

[00:12:49] Marc Gonyea: Were you the only one in the office?

[00:12:50] Kevin Tu: For the longest time, yes, thought I would be the first, and then Justin.

[00:12:57] Kevin Tu: Yep.

[00:12:57] Marc Gonyea: Oh, yeah.

[00:12:58] Kevin Tu: Gluten fires.

[00:12:59] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:12:59] Kevin Tu: I think they were working a lot at East Coast, they were working long hours, those guys. And then, Justin started coming in super early, so it was like me, Justin, and then around, like, 4:30, 4:45 to 5:00-ish we were all, it was just us two until, like, 7:00-ish, Dan would probably, Dan, Joe probably roll in around then, and then the rest of the office kind of trickled in, so.

[00:13:23] Marc Gonyea: And then, who were you working with back then? Like, who were your colleagues?

[00:13:27] Kevin Tu: Yeah. So, Kristian, uh, Carrillo, yeah, I think I was under Joe, Nick was on there at the time. And then, yeah, that was the team.

[00:13:39] Marc Gonyea: And then, then, but you had a good culture, right? Did, I think, London Miller

[00:13:44] Kevin Tu: London was there, the Gip, Gip

[00:13:48] Marc Gonyea: Brandon. Okay.

[00:13:50] Kevin Tu: Yeah, Austin Kroll.

[00:13:50] Marc Gonyea: At least we got lot names in…

[00:13:52] Kevin Tu: Oh, yeah.

[00:13:52] Marc Gonyea: Will, Will Aside.

[00:13:54] Kevin Tu: Yep.

[00:13:55] Marc Gonyea: What was that like, working with all those people?

[00:13:57] Kevin Tu: It was great.

[00:13:58] Tell us why. It’s a culture that was like, it’s fun, but you get your work done type of thing, right? It’s like, you come in, and it’s like, when my lunchtime started, I guess like the office is full, right? And it’s between, you know, getting the vibe of, like, booking a meeting is great, but it’s also, like, when someone else is celebrating on the other side because, you know, they just get a hat trick for the day or something like that.

[00:14:26] It’s one, you’re happy for ’em, and two, the competitive side’s like, damn, I didn’t get the hat trick today. So, it’s like, so it’s the environment in total, right, that you get like, it’s motivating for everybody at the same time.

[00:14:40] Marc Gonyea: There’s a lot of competitive people.

[00:14:42] Kevin Tu: It is a lot of people.

[00:14:43] Marc Gonyea: Brandon Gip.

[00:14:44] Kevin Tu: Oh, Gip, you can’t beat that guy, man, that guy’s, that’s awesome, I love Gip, I still talk to him quite a bit.

[00:14:49] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, he’s great, he’s done the podcast, Will Aside, Gip competitor, London competitor, those other dudes, that’s a competitive crew of people.

[00:14:56] Kevin Tu: Yeah, and it was fun, I mean, it wasn’t just sales, too, it was everything, ping pong, right? That gets, that gets a little crazy, most of the time. But yeah, and the group was good, it was, it was fun, but we also got our work done at the same time.

[00:15:12] Marc Gonyea: Did you learn from any of them?

[00:15:14] Kevin Tu: All the time.

[00:15:14] Marc Gonyea: Like, what kind of things?

[00:15:15] Kevin Tu: All the time, I mean, let’s just say, Gip, right? Gip was so direct, and there’s no, like, fear in anything he does, right? Really admired him a ton ’cause we do, like, call breakdowns, it’s like, he’s asking for so persistent over and over and over again. I think a lot of it is, like, when you start off cold calling people, right, like, “Am I bothering you?” Like, no, you’re not bothering them, it’s more of a way of just, like, this is your job and they know it’s your job, too.

[00:15:46] Marc Gonyea: A lot of times when you call these people, they get calls all the time, it’s how are you, how are you’re presenting it, and there’s no fear in what he was doing. So, it was just like, hey, just do it, type thing. And it’s also, like, strategies around, like, email templates, like, what’s working for you, what’s not working for you? Messaging, different ways to overcome nos, right, like. Kevin, I, I got a question for you before we keep moving along here. Why do you think it was important for you, or why do you think it’s important for someone who’s early in their career from a sales development standpoint to be working in an office with, with people like yourself five years ago this summer?

[00:16:23] Kevin Tu: Yeah, I think it’s, I know memoryBlue had, there’s huddles, right? Two huddles a day, that’s great, but a lot of it is very structured, like, it’s a very broad overview of technique and, you know, ideas, but just being in the office, you get to understand, like, like sitting next to somebody,

[00:16:42] you can hear their conversation, and you can pick little things up that maybe that person does naturally that they don’t bring up as, like, a technique or a skill, but you pick it up, and you’re like, oh, I’ve never actually seen that or heard that anyone tried that before. And being in the office, I think, going back to, like, the competitive nature of everyone in the office, right?

[00:17:04] Nobody wants to be the only person with a donut or a day, right, let’s, like, if you have an office of like, I don’t know how many people are here now, but I think before it brings like 15, 20 people, right? So, you have 15, 20 people, and everybody has a meeting book that day, and you’re sitting there with a donut, there’s no way you can go home

[00:17:23] happy, man, you know, I, I get it, I did my best today, but it’s like, well, what can you do a little bit more, right? What did they do that you didn’t do that day? And I think just being at home, especially if you’re just breaking into tech sales in general, like, being at home, there’s a lot that you missed out from not being in the office.

[00:17:45] And I think right now for us, local employees, at a, at, my company’s a DataVisor, it’s Mondays and Fridays that we go in, right? So, Jona Holty is another memoryBlue alum, and he’s my SDR there, right, so

[00:18:00] Chris Corcoran: Keep it in the family.

[00:18:01] Kevin Tu: Yep, absolutely, there’s, like, five people, five of us sit there. So, we go in Monday and Friday, of course, but we also go in Wednesday, right, I think it kind of breaks up the week a little bit because three days of not being in the office, like, there is so much that goes on in three days that if he’s there we can have conversations about strategize, he doesn’t have to, like, Slack me an explanation of, “Hey, I think we should, you know, try this strategy out.”

[00:18:29] He can just kind of look over and say, “Hey, what are your thoughts on this strategy?” Or I can go look over and say, “Hey, this person, so-and-so, just being, had an interaction with maybe it’s a good idea to go after this account check.” So, I think having that human interaction, especially with the

[00:18:42] team, right? And especially here, memoryBlue is an advantage because most companies or most startup companies, you don’t have 30 people sitting together all with the same goal, right? All with the same job, you get maybe four or five tops, right, in one area because now everybody’s, all working from home or different areas, different territories, you know, East Coast, West Coast, Central, memoryBlue

[00:19:05] it’s like, it’s a good place for a bunch of people with the same goal to collaborate and all get better from it ’cause those, everyone here has the same goal that’s, one, gets, get promoted, and two, it’s make money, right? But those, those are the biggest things.

[00:19:20] Chris Corcoran: Not in that order.

[00:19:21] Kevin Tu: Not in that order. Rule number one, always.

[00:19:23] Marc Gonyea: What’s rule number one?

[00:19:24] Kevin Tu: Give a, give a shout out to, um, our VP, Todd Ludwig, rule number one, don’t mess with my money, that’s, that’s one, right? So, make money, provide, and then everything else takes, comes se, separate, but it’s like being in the office,

[00:19:39] everybody is now more willing to help each other, right, it’s, if you’re in here and you want to be just by yourself, you’re doing great, but you don’t wanna share your knowledge, it’s like, I get it, you’re doing great, but it’s like, come on, we’re all a team here at the end of the day a little bit, right? So, no, we may not be in the same account, but we all want to make sure everybody succeed, right? So.

[00:20:01] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, that’s the whole purpose of it, too. And we always think that’s the best way to get leads for clients when you have people thinking the way you’re thinking, which is why when you were here, you went to the first ever memoryBlue TOPS trip.

[00:20:11] Kevin Tu: Yeah, that was fun.

[00:20:12] Marc Gonyea: Costa Rica.

[00:20:13] Kevin Tu: A lot of fun, yeah.

[00:20:14] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. So, when you were here doing your thing, working with some of these folks who you still stay in touch with, it sounds like, what did you think you wanted to do? Did it crystallize ’cause nobody really, they kind of know what they’re doing when they start here, but they don’t really know what they’re doing, right?

[00:20:29] ‘Cause it’s hard if you’re new to it, more people might know now because of the sales programs and those things, but like, people don’t really truly understand it, and they get into it and then like, okay, and then some people think they want to do this, they want, what is, what is your, what crystallized for you in terms of what you thought you wanted to go?

[00:20:46] Kevin Tu: Yes. ‘Cause initially, it was like, well, what are the go, like, there’s two routes, right? I think when we, one of our first conversations with Dan, was, like, do you want to be a closer? Do you want be in the AE job, right? Do you want to manage people, right? I think a lot of it is, it’s different mindsets going into it, too, right?

[00:21:03] Like, AE, you’re in SaaS sales, enterprise sales, right? It’s a lot of it is, is team effort, right? It’s, you know, your SU, your SE, and everything, but at the end of the day, everything falls on you because it’s your number, right? In a managerial role, you almost have to put, like, the team first, right?

[00:21:19] Everybody’s, at the end of the day, if everybody hits their number, you hit your number. That’s just the nature of how the team works, right? So, kinda identifying those, I think initially it was like, man, I can be an SDR, management would be cool, like, what are options out there, like, it’s kind of back and forth, right?

[00:21:34] So, I think initially, gosh, I didn’t, I didn’t even know, I’m like, man, SDR is pretty decent money, I was like, but then like, you know, growing up I was like, man, if I can make, like, a hundred grand a year for the rest of my life, I would be like, I’d be so happy, right? Because growing up, hundred thousand is, like, a lot of money, right?

[00:21:52] It’s like, but now it’s like, you look at some of the opportunities out there that come because salespeople, like, productive salespeople, are really hard to find, right? So, the money they’re thrown out there, it’s like, a 100K, like, is almost like a starting point, right?

[00:22:10] It’s like, where do you go from there? And the money that, when you get your first, like, commission check, it’s like, twice, like, my salary or whatever, when I was like, well, like annual salary, right? So, it’s like, a little crazy that way, but so it’s like, understanding that there’s the managerial route and the sales route, but then kinda identifying, like, man, sales is kind of what I want to be, right?

[00:22:31] I think a lot of times, I think I mentioned this a little bit earlier, it’s easier to go if you can get the sales closing experience, I think it’s easier to go from that route, and if you want to eventually become a manager, I think you can learn a little bit of the people skills to be a manager, I think it’s a little bit more difficult to go other way around, right? I don’t, I don’t know you guys’ thoughts on that, but it’s

[00:22:54] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, it might be, I got a question.

[00:22:56] Chris Corcoran: Absolutely.

[00:22:56] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, yeah.

[00:22:57] Chris Corcoran: I mean, it’s hard to, you’re, if you’re, it’s just if you’re an SDR manager, you’ve been an SDR, you, you’re managing SDRs, then you, to move into a closing rule that, that’s, that’s a tough leap to make ’cause you’ve never closed anything yet.

[00:23:11] Marc Gonyea: I think you can do it.

[00:23:13] Chris Corcoran: Of course, you can.

[00:23:14] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, yeah, I, my, we can come back to that, you said sales, salespeople are hard to find. Well, why do you think that is?

[00:23:22] Kevin Tu: Because there’s a lot of salespeople who have done the job for a while, like, 10, 15, 20 years that have done the job, right, and a lot of times it’s, like, that’s what’s on your resume, and that’s what a lot of companies hire on, right? But let’s say you’re a startup company and you’re hiring for somebody who has 10, 15 years experience, and the product is so new, or it’s so different that you can’t rely on your Rolodex forever, right?

[00:23:55] I think there’s a lot of more seasoned AEs that just don’t have the basic building blocks of, like, prospecting, right?

[00:24:03] Marc Gonyea: Completely.

[00:24:04] Kevin Tu: So, there’s a ton of those out there. So, there’s only so far you can go with your Rolodex, at the end of the day, there’s, has to be some building blocks there.

[00:24:11] Marc Gonyea: Absolutely.

[00:24:12] Kevin Tu: So, I think having the building blocks that you learn from here, from, you know, other people at Memory Blue, right? And kind of growing from the SDR to like a, you know, mid-market and then, like, an enterprise role, like, having that natural progression really completes your skillset in a way, right, kind of makes, that makes more valuable ’cause you could drop any of these, like, seasoned memoryBlue people,

[00:24:34] or any AEs that have come out of this program, you can drop ’em in just about any company and give them, like, six months or whatever to learn the product and start prospecting and they can build up from there with, like, no support, right?

[00:24:47] There’s other, you know, AEs out there who haven’t had the opportunity to learn the building blocks where they’re gonna have to rely a little bit more on everything. So, yeah, that’s probably, I’m gonna say valuable, it’s more of, like, what you can bring to a company.

[00:25:01] Chris Corcoran: That’s funny to hear that ’cause not that you said this five years ago, SDR, memoryBlue SDR, they were very quick to complain of our clients don’t give us anything, right? Very little marketing support, very little lists. Not all of our clients, but a lot of ’em.

[00:25:19] However, the fact that they don’t, you’re not given anything and you’re expected to produce, you have to figure it all out. You gotta figure out how to do a list build, you have to figure out how to messaging, you gotta figure out how to develop pipeline. And while going through it may be a challenge, now it sounds to me like that’s really valuable.

[00:25:38] Kevin Tu: A hundred percent valuable, right, I think having that ability to do that, right, it’s like, not many people have that. So, if you gave me an option as somebody who needs a ton of support but can close versus a guy who needs less support but can also close, it’s like, who do you go for, right?

[00:25:59] Chris Corcoran: It’s like the basketball player can create his own shot.

[00:26:01] Kevin Tu: Exactly, yeah.

[00:26:02] Marc Gonyea: It’s difference between a good college player and, you know, you’re not gonna get a two-way contract with the NBA, you can’t create your own shot, right?

[00:26:10] Kevin Tu: Exactly.

[00:26:11] Marc Gonyea: Unless you’re JJ Redick, Cave Spring, shout out Corcoran. So, two weeks of High School. What would just, just for you to flex down a little, when you were an SDR and ended up here, and we’ll talk about your transition to Ripcord in a second. What were you good at, what skill, what was your kind of the K2 signature booth?

[00:26:29] Kevin Tu: Yeah. I think it’s identifying, I think this kind of goes back to the marketing background a little bit, too. Identifying the place in the market where your product lies, right, where’s the need? Who in the company needs it? What part of the, you know, I guess the operations change does this person fall under?

[00:26:50] I mean, further down the line, like, who holds the budget for this? Which level holds the budget for this? What type of conversation can I have with this person based on his role, right? I think kind of identifying all that, it was probably my strong point. And then, identifying the best, shortest, most easy, readable email that you can put together as a touchpoint out there at first, right?

[00:27:16] Marc Gonyea: Oh, hold, let’s break that down. Why, the thinking man’s game right now before we’re going, just please tell us about the shortest, most readable email.

[00:27:25] Kevin Tu: So, just for you, Eddie Gonyea.

[00:27:27] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, go ahead.

[00:27:28] Kevin Tu: So, if you look at, like, all of us when we read our emails, right, like, I think right now you guys both have your laptops out, but let’s say we’re not in the office, right, let’s say you’re out and about, you’re running an errand. Where is the place that you view mo, most of your emails?

[00:27:45] Marc Gonyea: Your phone, on your phone.

[00:27:46] Kevin Tu: Exactly. So, if your email is too blocky, if your email is too long and it’s not readable on a phone, like, I’m not gonna read it, or people are not gonna read it, in general, unless they’re like, really, really looking for your company and exactly what you’re selling.

[00:28:06] It’s almost like a novel, right? You have to read the whole thing. But if you can shorten it up to, like, two key points, bullet points are really, really easy to read, so bullet points are huge bullet points, what are your values? How we can help you? Let’s talk. If you book an email book, great.

[00:28:24] If not, it’s a great conversation starter when you call them, right? It’s like, “Hey, I emailed you about this. Did you get a chance to read it?” They’re gonna say yes or no, in whichever way they say, there’s a conversation to be had, right? So, it’s a short email, I think my keystone class before I graduated was a business

[00:28:43] Marc Gonyea: And you gimme a lot of shout-outs, SF State

[00:28:45] Kevin Tu: I know, SF State, make sure you go there, the brochure, it’s always sunny, but you’ll see the sun maybe, like, twice a year, uh, but if you need to take a nap in your car, it’s great. But, uh, the class was a business writing class, right, and, uh, the professor there was like, “Okay, essentially, write me a, how, there’s no limit to the page, right? It’s the first time,

[00:29:13] there’s no limit or no word count to the page, so just write, like, however many words it takes for you to think you can get your point across.” So, that was, like, the first paper we did, wrote it out, like a page and a half or whatever, and I was like, okay, great, and she goes, “Take that paper, and I need you to cut the word count in half,

[00:29:30] but I need you to get your point across again.” And you’re thinking, like, there’s no way, like, I fit this into a page and a half, but then you started looking at it, you started taking out filler words, you realize you’re talking about things, repeating yourself in the paper or whatever, you started taking stuff out, and it’s, like, half the link, and she goes, “Great, you did that,

[00:29:49] now take that paper and cut that in half again.” And then, so by the end of it, my one-and-a-half page paper was like paragraph and half, but it got the exact same point across, right? And her whole thing was like, “In business, in general, people don’t have time to read your page and a half, right? If you can get that point across in three or four sentences, and they can read it on a phone or whatever, perfect,

[00:30:16] that’s all you really need.” So, think a lot of that, uh, we go back to, like, the messaging that we’re creating, it’s concise, right? It’s an elevator pitch, but in word form, if that makes sense.

[00:30:26] Chris Corcoran: No, absolutely.

[00:30:27] Marc Gonyea: You’re speaking to Corcoran right now.

[00:30:28] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, into the white space in emails. I love white space, you get a scan, people don’t read, they scan, TLDR.

[00:30:36] Kevin Tu: Yeah, exactly. And then also, I think one of the things I did was send that email to yourself.

[00:30:43] Chris Corcoran: Old, oldest trick in the book.

[00:30:44] Kevin Tu: Look at it, like, if you look at it on your phone, you’re like, man, this is like a block of words, and you don’t wanna read it, you wrote it, why would they want to read it, you know? So, it’s like

[00:30:52] Chris Corcoran: So few people do that, though. Why don’t people do that?

[00:30:54] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. I don’t know.

[00:30:55] Kevin Tu: Yeah. So, I think that’s another thing with

[00:30:58] Marc Gonyea: Kevin, why don’t people do that?

[00:30:59] Kevin Tu: I don’t know.

[00:30:59] Marc Gonyea: What’s wrong with people?

[00:31:01] It takes five seconds to do it, so just type an email, and it’s probably already saved, you don’t even have to type your whole email out, it’s type, like, I type in “K” and like, my email pops up, and I just send it to myself, right? I don’t know, I think that’s just one of those things that probably something I learned just being in the office, to be honest.

[00:31:17] Marc Gonyea: Okay, yeah, you learned that in memoryBlue, you actually learned that in school, but you learned to deploy it.

[00:31:22] Kevin Tu: Yeah, I mean, the, a lot of it’s putting that into action, right? So, you learn it, and then you kind of brainstorm ideas, and you’re like, hey, I did learn this in school, like, and then you just kind of build on that, right? Because a lot of times, as you’re learning in school,

[00:31:34] there’s no real-world application to a lot of it, like, you just learn the information, but then when you start putting things into application, it’s like, okay, yeah, I did learn about this in this class, but I guess now it’s useful, right? So.

[00:31:49] Marc Gonyea: Excellent.

[00:31:50] All right. So, you’re here, you’re doing your thing, working with this crew, making the commute.

[00:32:57] Kevin Tu: Making the commute.

[00:32:58] Marc Gonyea: How did Ripcord come about? And Ripcord, tell everyone what Ripcord was, you know, in terms of, you need to tell, you can say what they do, but it’s more about who they, they were your client.

[00:33:07] Kevin Tu: Yeah. The Ripcord, memoryBlue client, they’re a, uh, document intelligence company. So, a lot of taking the world paperless, their whole thing. Really lucky for me, I was talking about the commute, their office was five minutes from my house, not.

[00:33:21] Marc Gonyea: Oh, it’s funny how that works.

[00:33:22] Kevin Tu: Yeah, it’s funny how that worked in Hayward. It was right down the street, like, a five-minute drive, but didn’t have a car, I can walk, right? So, really lucked out there to find them.

[00:33:34] And Chad was our, uh, SDR manager over there. So, yeah, I think working with them, I worked with them probably, like, six to nine months-ish with memoryBlue, with John, John Le, which still one of my best friends was, I talk to him, like, every day, he’s great.

[00:33:53] Marc Gonyea: Get that guy on this thing.

[00:33:54] Kevin Tu: Yeah, he was at my wedding, like last month, a couple months ago, so.

[00:33:58] Marc Gonyea: Congratulations.

[00:33:59] Kevin Tu: Yeah. Thank you, that was fun to

[00:34:01] Marc Gonyea: You met, you met him here?

[00:34:03] Kevin Tu: I met him here, yeah. And I didn’t know him too well when I, we were on different clients, but when we were on the same client, like, me and him used to compete at everything, like, stuff that we shouldn’t even be competing about, like, uh, at Ripcord we had like scooters, I probably shouldn’t be saying this, but we had scooters in the office, and we’d race and scooters, and who to, who can go get a water and come faster, something like that, right?

[00:34:29] So, yeah, HR Ripcord is probably, like, hopefully, shouldn’t listen to this, but yeah, that’s stuff we do. But like, let’s say John books, like, two meetings, right? It’s like, okay, well, where am I at for the month, right? And then, like, we’d keep score, we had a whiteboard, where we kept score of, like dials,

[00:34:45] it was probably, I think a little bit probably before hustle score started, like, we kept score of, like, dials and, like, meetings booked, you know, how far your meetings went, uh, demos and stuff like that, right? So, and we took pride in that, too, it’s like, Ripcord was really early starting on, I think they had a few clients, maybe not even that many.

[00:35:06] So, I think a lot of it really allowed us to be creative, as well. I think John, myself, I think Chad was very collaborative, it was sitting down and understanding, you know, what the product actually does, right? I think initially we didn’t know, right? I think we were way off base for, like, the first month that it happened.

[00:35:27] I know, I remember it was being a struggle and, uh, Yorkey was our manager, and I think part of what he helped us with is, like, let’s just figure it out, right? Whatever it takes, right? I think his whole thing was if you’re doing great, great, I’m gonna be off your case, just do what you gotta do, right?

[00:35:43] If you’re producing, great. If you’re not producing, how are we gonna fix it? ‘ Cause at the end of the day, sales look at a numbers game, right? It’s like, you produce or you don’t, right? So, we were in the office, I remember the first two months was rough because we’re in the memoryBlue office, he’s like, “If you need me to come in at, like, 6:00 AM or whatever, like, we’ll come in together, and we sit there and we…”

[00:36:08] Marc Gonyea: You and Yorkey?

[00:36:09] Kevin Tu: Yeah, me and Yorkey would sit there, and we’d, like, look through LinkedIn profiles for, like, an hour and a half before blitz even started.

[00:36:18] Marc Gonyea: List building.

[00:36:19] Kevin Tu: Yeah. So, it’s list-building, but…

[00:36:21] Marc Gonyea: Market research.

[00:36:22] Kevin Tu: market research as well, too, because we didn’t know where we fit, like, I think there was a persona that was given to us initially that when we called on them, they had no clue.

[00:36:32] Marc Gonyea: The clients a lot of times think they understand the persona, and they’re well-intentioned the clients, but they don’t fully, not fully once an outbound basis or deals, they’re not fully aware.

[00:36:42] Kevin Tu: Yeah, a lot of that was just, yeah, we’re way off, they’re calling, like, we’re calling on people, and they’re like, yeah, it’s not, I don’t know what you’re talking about, right? So, it’s like, okay, cool. So, what we do is we sit there, this is what we think the product does, this is who I think would benefit from it, we look at these people all day for, like, an hour in the morning, and then we build them out, we call on ’em, “Hey, it’s not the right person.” Oh, well, well, let’s go back, next day we’re doing the same thing again,

[00:37:09] we’re looking, “Hey, is this the right person?” Build them out, not the right person, oh, well, start over, right? So, we did a lot of that early on here, and so we kind of started understanding what we did and the persona, we started having some success, and then things just kind of, like, took off from it, then kind of got Yorkey off our back a little bit.

[00:37:29] Marc Gonyea: Yo, Yorkey always knew his numbers.

[00:37:32] Chris Corcoran: He did.

[00:37:33] Kevin Tu: A hundred percent.

[00:37:33] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, a hundred percent.

[00:37:34] Kevin Tu: Yeah, you know, I appreciate him a lot, too.

[00:37:37] Marc Gonyea: Of course.

[00:37:37] Kevin Tu: Development, I think he was very straight shooter about everything, it’s like, things need to get done, just get it done. And if you’re messing around and not getting your work done, and you’re showing up at nine, leaving at four, it’s like, that’s a no-go, right?

[00:37:51] Marc Gonyea: It’s a problem. So, you’re, you’re at Ripcord, you’re doing your thing. What, where were, what mountain were you trying to climb? Where were you trying to go? Because you, obviously, you’re intentional person, right? I think you, when you speak so eloquently about your experiences, I’m curious as to how you were, we know you wanted to make money, but, so what was the goal of going to Ripcord? Where did you want to go?

[00:38:16] Kevin Tu: Yeah. So, I think there were a couple options at Ripcord, right? I think there were, there were thoughts of, like, inside sales, like an ISR role, kind of a mid-market type role, right? I think just the way that it turned out there, I think the timeline that was, you know, initially presented may not have fully aligned with my expectations over there.

[00:38:37] So, it’s a little bit of that. So, the initiative’s like, “All right, we’ll go there, we’ll be, get SDR for, you know, whatever, for a bit, and then there will be a next group of SDRs coming in, and then we kind of move up from there.” Right? So, that was the goal, right, wanted to get into closing,

[00:38:53] but, you know, I think a lot of the work that, you know, we did with figuring out the messaging and targeting people, and the right personas found a lot of joy in that, too, like, the every day was something new, like, every day you’re learning, you’re growing, when you get a little, that breakthrough, like, it’s like a rush of, like, endorphins, right? So.

[00:39:12] Marc Gonyea: This is a man who enjoys, this is a professional who enjoys the process, Chris, right?

[00:39:18] Kevin Tu: And you have to enjoy the process.

[00:39:20] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, or it’s gonna be too painful, right?

[00:39:21] Kevin Tu: And it, I mean, it’s still painful, but it’s like

[00:39:24] Marc Gonyea: It’s too painful.

[00:39:25] Kevin Tu: But without, without the hard parts, I mean, the, the winds aren’t as nice, right? So, I mean, it’s, part of it is, like, growing the team and kind of understanding everything and kind of growing from there. So, there was parts of thinking like, do I want to be a closer? ‘Cause I don’t know if the timeline’s gonna work, and then there were thoughts of, like, man, if I can do this here, I can, you know, build an SDR team anywhere, right?

[00:39:48] I think that goes back to our building blocks, right? If you’ve done it before, you can teach it, right, uh, that was my whole thing. So, I mean, there were thoughts of like, man, do I want to continue to try to be a closer, or kind of go be SDR manager somewhere, right? So, that was all part of the process,

[00:40:05] and think that, you know, at Ripcord, I built a lot of really good relationships there, I think that was really important, like, everybody that I worked there, worked with there, loved ’em all, the AEs, the VPs, not a bad word to say it by anybody there. So, yeah, I think, I think the timing of things,

[00:40:23] they’re just kind of changed from my expectations. I think us as salespeople and go-getters, right, you always want that next, the next step, right? Whatever that next step is, you want that change. I think it’s being in one role a little bit too long, I think SDR role, in general, like, generally is a pretty tough role, right?

[00:40:40] It’s a hard role to do, but once you’ve learned it and kind of want, like, okay, well, what’s next, right? So, looking for what’s next, and I think that kind of leads to the DataVisor story, right? So.

[00:40:52] Marc Gonyea: So, you, you’re, what’s next? So, I wanna close? I want to, I want to carry back

[00:40:57] Kevin Tu: That, that was initially.

[00:40:58] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, right, and then?

[00:40:59] Kevin Tu: So, when DataVisor came calling, it was, like, the couple other buddies that I met here at memoryBlue, went there and was like, “Hey, I think we’re building a team out at DataVisor and would love, you know, to see if you want to come join and kind of be part of the team here.” It was an SDR into, like, an SDR management role, right?

[00:41:22] That was the goal, and I was like, look, I felt at the time a little bit like stuck at Ripcord ’cause the timeline, I feel like things weren’t moving as fast I thought it, you know, were going. So, I’m like, okay, so I’ll make the jump. The Ripcord team was understanding, right, of my situation and kinda what my thought process was,

[00:41:38] I let them know, communicated with them, and then ended up going to DataVisor, right? This was right before COVID, I was there for maybe, like, three or four months before COVID started, right? And when COVID started, that changed the timeline of everything that they were planning, right? Startup com, startup company money, tight budget cuts, people don’t wanna spend money.

[00:42:02] So, how we expect to grow it internally, you know, I think the management role was just kind of like, outta door a little bit, right? So, there again, fellow stuck, and then, uh, during COVID they started downsizing the team, right? So, open to talk about this because I think it’s all part of the journey.

[00:42:20] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, of course, well, you had, you’ve been on the journey with class ’cause you ended going back, and you’re, you, and you left, and what, you seem to be really good at communicating with people, being very honest and upfront, being transparent. So, you talking about this stuff is, all makes sense ’cause the, there’s no duplicity involved.

[00:42:41] Kevin Tu: Yeah. So, the short version is, I boomeranged twice, right? So, Ripcord, DataVisor, Ripcord, now back to DataVisor, right? So, back to Ripcord, and at Ripcord, I really have to give, uh, the team there a ton of credit, right, kind of helping me kind of identify what I wanted to do. So, back there, our head of marketing, or VP of marketing at the time, Leah, she was like, I think you can be a very good closer, ’cause she, the SDR team, worked really closely with marketing there.

[00:43:13] “So, I think you’d be a good closer and don’t think you should go down the management route because,” I’ve had this conversation with her, she’s like, “I just don’t feel like you are gonna be happy as manager.” Right? So, I kind of evaluated both, both sides, and then, she’s right. So, I ended up getting some closing experience at Ripcord for a bit, and this whole time,

[00:43:36] right, I think the transition back to Ripcord wasn’t awkward, it didn’t feel weird because the way that I left the first time, it was, like you said, right, communicated with everybody, no bridges were burned, enjoyed my time there and everybody there was very welcoming back. So, I went back, wasn’t awkward at all, and then…

[00:43:55] Marc Gonyea: You learned to close?

[00:43:56] Kevin Tu: Yeah, learned to close, it was like, it was a, uh, mid-market, like, you know, small, SMB type account, there were full sales cycle stuff. So, got that experience there, and then the whole time that I was at Ripcord, anytime that my old AE at DataVisor, Todd, would come to town.

[00:44:17] So, he lives up in Seattle, he’ll come down to the office once in a while, and we’d grab lunch or dinner, right, it’s more of a just keep-in-touch, friendly type thing. I worked with him, he liked the work that I did, uh, for him, he liked the work ethic and the way that I was on top of everything.

[00:44:32] Marc Gonyea: Appreciated the short emails.

[00:44:34] Kevin Tu: Appreciated the short emails, and a timely email.

[00:44:37] Marc Gonyea: Timely, yes, time, that’s just short for timely.

[00:44:39] Kevin Tu: Yeah, I think, uh…

[00:44:39] Marc Gonyea: Never changed.

[00:44:40] Kevin Tu: Yeah, I think a lot of it is making sure that you put the work into where people know they can rely on you, right? So, I think, had a good relationship there, you know, got the closing experience at Ripcord for a bit, and then Todd got promoted into a VP role, right,

[00:44:56] and there he was looking to build out a team in that territory, and we were having dinner one time, and I was like, “Hey,” and he was like, “Hey, I’m looking, probably backfill, right?” So, that conversation started, initially I was like, you know, I gave Ripcord or they, Ripcord gave me, like, you know, chance to come back, think I’m okay, I’m gonna kind of stick there for a little bit, right?

[00:45:18] That was my initial thought, but then a second dinner, a third dinner happened, and it was just, like, laying out, at this point, it’s like, he’s selling me on the job, right? It’s like, he’s selling me on the opportunity, what you can be in this role, right? It’s not SMB, it’s more larger accounts,

[00:45:38] the product itself has a bigger market share, I would say, or like, you know, there’s more people buying this product, right? And that relationship was good. So, I had, then I had a conversation with the Ripcord team as well to kind of identify ’cause like, a lot of my team members, like, management, I’ve, close enough relationship to let, to kind of bounce ideas off, right?

[00:45:59] It’s kind of like, I understand this is about work and probably different type of work, but it’s, I want to be able to be open and honest about this with you guys, and then, you know, kind of discussion about contracts and pay and stuff like that is just naturally, it was like, “You should go, like, it makes sense for you to go, right?”

[00:46:19] So, I think having that relationship with them, then also the relationship at DataVisor to where it was never awkward going back and forth, right? Like, I’m very open talking about it because I think probably the most, the cliche, right, it’s like, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know, but it’s very important to know stuff, too, just putting that out there.

[00:46:39] But, but also, like, who you know, kind of people, the relationships you’ve built, you never know what opportunities will come up, there’s no shame in doing a back and forth because if every step of the way you’re falling up, right? There’s no shame in kind of going back and forth. So, that was, that was my biggest thing, and that’s where I’m at now, so.

[00:47:00] Chris Corcoran: So, I, I’m glad to hear that you’ve got such strong relationships at Ripcord and, and DataVisor, they’ll be, um, very understanding when you complete the trifecta and come back to memoryBlue.

[00:47:10] Kevin Tu: Can we cut that?

[00:47:14] Chris Corcoran: Why?

[00:47:15] Marc Gonyea: So, I mean, there are all these parts of business that are important as a sales professional, right? The hustle, learning how to be, be good on phones, breaking down calls to get comfortable with hearing your own voice and learn from other people, list building slash market research,

[00:47:32] you learn all those things, and I could even hear, I can feel your impatience when you talk about things, right, in a good way. We’ve got a company full of SDRs, they’re all really impatient, which is kinda what makes ’em good. I, Chris and I, and this is the same old thing, but it’s, we’re just gonna smash this in until the end of time, it’s good to stay in that SDR role a little longer than what you expect. But why do you think that is?

[00:47:59] Kevin Tu: I think it’s, so, I think a couple ways to look at it, right? I think if you’re at memoryBlue, it makes sense, depending on your client as well, right, like, are you on one client for 12 months, right?

[00:48:13] That’s different than being on a client and then, you know, maybe that client leaving or whatever happens, you go to a different client and kind of understanding different spaces, right, like, different industries. It’s good to have that experience to learn about all the different industries out there and kind of how, and then you also learn different techniques from different AEs that you work with there, right?

[00:48:36] Kind of build that relationship with the AEs and kind of pick their brain. A lot of my AEs that, all my Ripcord AEs, are still really close, I’m still really close with them, a couple of them were at my wedding as well, right? So, that, that was fun, and, um

[00:48:52] Marc Gonyea: That’s your superpower, man, you build really good relationships, yeah

[00:48:55] Kevin Tu: I think a lot of that is, everyone needs to be able to build a relationship, right? It’s, it’s not just personal relationship, but it’s also, like, business relationships, too, right? It’s like, I think a lot of it comes from being transparent, truthful with everything that you do, and people know they can trust you,

[00:49:12] you start building those relationships, right? I think, like, customers, right? There are relationships that I’ve built with customers that I talked to when I was an SDR.

[00:49:21] Marc Gonyea: Oh, customers are gonna love Kevin.

[00:49:23] Kevin Tu: Mm-hmm, that, now, as an AE, they recognize me from the last time I was at DataVisor, and now I’m working to deal with the company that I sourced as an SDR three years ago, right?

[00:49:34] During COVID, there was a little bit of layoff, but then now, they’re back, and we’re having conversations again. But it’s like, relationship that you’ve built as, like, they recognize you, they know who you are, and people move around, I think one of the tools that, or one of the, uh, assets that people have, a lot of relationships is when people move around into different companies,

[00:49:54] I mean, if they’re looking to reevaluate their platforms, they’re looking to reevaluate their technology, like, who are the first people they call, right? The people that have the best relationships with. So, even if you weren’t prospecting X company, let’s say your champion goes there, and now, instead of, like, being a director, they’re a VP. Now, they have a little bit more power, they hold the budget, and they like you, they know who you are, they know what the product’s about, they know what you’re about.

[00:50:16] Kevin, you’re the first call, right? So, now you’re in. So, I think building the relationship is the most important part of sales, right? I think that’s number one, I think a lot of, like, negotiation, pricing, all that stuff, it’s team effort, right,

[00:50:32] especially in enterprise, like finances involved, your SEs involved, the, you do workshops or POCs or whatever, like, there’s so many people involved, but it’s, like, can you come back to, “I need something from you, and I know I can ask from you because I know I’ve done everything I can on my side to make sure that you are successful on your side,” right? So, it, having that transparent relationship with customers and people is really important.

[00:50:57] Marc Gonyea: Kevin’s hidden for power, and it’s got some good, right? It’s where you find both, like he, we started off talking about the value of prospecting, and having that foundation, that’s grit, there’s a lot of grit in that, right? Discipline and grit, I’m not saying other salespeople who don’t do it aren’t disciplined, but, if requires more discipline to do the outbound. But then, the other side, the flip side of that coin, is this whole relationship piece, the finesse, the finesse in the relationship, and like, the staying power.

[00:51:29] Kevin Tu: I, important, ’cause, I mean, you never know when, even if they go to a different, I think you’ve talked to a lot of customers out there where it’s like, we were evaluating three vendors, and then we didn’t go with them and then they, like, blocked their email or something, right, like, but like, that type of stuff, it’s like because you never know when it’s gonna come back around, right?

[00:51:52] With people or with customers, right? You never know when there’s gonna be an opportunity where you were good to them, and you were honest with them, and even though it didn’t work out this time that there may be a different opportunity later on, right? So, yeah, so, that relationship building is super, super important.

[00:52:09] Marc Gonyea: What advice would you give to someone who’s just starting out their career as an SDR?

[00:52:13] Chris Corcoran: In general.

[00:52:13] Marc Gonyea: General.

[00:52:14] Kevin Tu: In general, you never know who’s gonna be the next person that you talk to, right? I think, ’cause I was telling, it was Isaiah out there ’cause he’s, he’s new, right? He’s saying, is like, one of the newer SDRs around here.

[00:52:28] And I was like, “You never know,” so, we’ve talked a little bit on the fireside chat about, you know, your Rolodex and kind of the people that you know, right, in the industry, and I was like, “Hey, you never know who that person you’re gonna call next and talk to is gonna end up being, like that person,

[00:52:43] you may build a relationship with that person going forward, where as, even as an SDR, you pass it off to your AE, but you’re staying on the calls, and they see your name around and, let’s say, three years down the line, he’s an AE somewhere, and that person is now a VP, right? And you have that relationship and know who you are, like, you, like, always just understand that the next person you talk to could be an opportunity down the line, even if they’re not time right now.” Right? Also, just consistency, right, I think a lot of it is,

[00:53:15] Chris Corcoran: Here we go.

[00:53:16] Kevin Tu: a lot of it is, there’s going to, I mean, the dip, right? I think, is that still mandatory here?

[00:53:20] Marc Gonyea: Hell yeah, it’s still mandatory.

[00:53:22] Kevin Tu: Yeah.

[00:53:22] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, man.

[00:53:23] Kevin Tu: Yeah, he, I mean.

[00:53:24] Marc Gonyea: It’s a Chris Corcoran original.

[00:53:25] Kevin Tu: Yeah. So, I mean, there are days where it’s, it’s rough, right? There’s weeks where it’s rough, too, quarters where it’s rough, but if you understand the process and trust your process and you consistently do the right thing, it’s eventually gonna balance out, right? Like, it’s, you’re gonna have the highest of highs, and you have the lowest of lows, and then, you know, usually the average is somewhere in the middle.

[00:53:49] So, I think it’s consistency and know that there is light at the end of the tunnel, right? I think it’s not, a lot of times as an SDR you feel, you feel stuck, or you feel like, you know, I’ve been doing this, like, I’ve learned all I can learn, it’s like, no, there’s probably quite a bit more that you can learn, right?

[00:54:05] So, I think there’s a lot of that, and then, yeah, just continue at it, I think that’s probably the biggest thing, right? If, like, a lot of times this isn’t, like, I wouldn’t say this is for everybody, right? There’s a lot of times where maybe it’s just not a fit, right? It happens, right? Like, maybe you don’t, don’t wanna have a quota all the time, right?

[00:54:24] Maybe you want a job that’s a little bit more, like, you have a task to do every day, right? That’s okay, like it, it’s not a bad thing, right? But there’s, I mean if you wanna work, like, nine to five every day, perfect. There’s times now where it’s like, I work, start of the morning because, you know, maybe my champions are on the East Coast and then because I have, like, Southeast Asia’s part of my patch as well,

[00:54:46] sometimes I work until, like, you know, nine or ten at night, like that’s normal, right? And then there’s also days where it’s, like, you are reaching out to people on LinkedIn, but the meetings are a little bit light, right, that’s possible as well. So, there’s, like, you know, you gotta be able to manage your time

[00:55:03] the best you can, right? They control what you can’t control. There’s a lot of things, you know, budget, COVID, whatever, people getting fired, economy is no good, like, that happens, right? But if you can control what you can control and continue to put the effort in every day, like at the end of the day, things will kind of even down.

[00:55:20] Marc Gonyea: That’s what I, I like to call a walk-off home run, Kevin, this podcast is a, this is an example why I love doing this ’cause you and I don’t know each other that well, unfortunately, right? Because when the company’s growing

[00:55:33] Kevin Tu: We’ll always have Costa Rica.

[00:55:35] Marc Gonyea: We’ll always have, but like, hearing this stuff is a phenomenal, right, it, it means a lot to Chris and I that you even worked here, you learn stuff, this is, most of this is who you are as a person and what you learn, your personal philosophy, but the fact that we were part of your journey is very inspiring and it, hopefully, the folks you talked to this morning take some of that and people listening to this podcast. I mean, this is, you just gotta listen to this.

[00:56:00] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, what, so, as an AE, I’m very curious to get your thoughts on this. You’re an AE, you have an SDR who supports you, what do you look for in an SDR? Like, what’s a good SDR for an AE for you? What do you care about?

[00:56:14] Kevin Tu: Number one, he or she, or this person, like, gets it right, like, gets the product, gets what their role is and is willing to put the work in. Then that’s one is, you talked about the hustle, right? That’s number one. Two, it’s the communication, right? So, Jona, I don’t know if you mentioned him, Jona, another, um, memoryBlue alum. I work with him pretty tightly, and then there’s like, when he books a meeting, it’s not just like, “Hey, here’s the meeting, here you go,” type of thing,

[00:56:43] it’s like, “Here’s the meeting, this is the person, this is what we talked about.” Just so there’s no, like, overlap on the call ’cause I think, as an SDR there are a lot of times where, or when I was SDR, like, I’d book a meeting, and I’d give, like, discovery notes or what, all that stuff, and we hop on the call and the AE didn’t read the discovery notes

[00:57:03] that I sent them, that I put a ton of effort into, right? And then we hop on the call, and the AE just, like, just talks about everything I already talked about, it’s all in the notes. So, I think a lot of the SDR, the AE relationship has to be good, what else is it? I mean, it’s passionate about, I think the job, right?

[00:57:22] ‘Cause it’s really hard to continue doing it if you don’t at least like it a little bit, right? If this is really tough for you, for you to come in every day, then it’s really tough.

[00:57:30] Marc Gonyea: If you don’t get any joy, I gotta find the right name on LinkedIn, or like, these still small things you gotta enjoy those.

[00:57:36] Kevin Tu: There’s gotta be small wins, right? One thing we did, me and John did, we broke our days up by, like, quarters, right? Like, if I can get three or four C Whips in, like, the first hour or something like that, all right, the other person has to do, like, 10 push-ups or something like that, right?

[00:57:54] So, it’s, it is, like, stupid stuff like that that we used to do that ended up not being stupid, ’cause you put ’em all together, like, you do a pretty good job, so.

[00:58:02] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, it’s a lot easier for a little guy like John to do all those push-ups, too. As an AE, how much do you value, or do you think that your SDR experience is helping you now as a, as a closer?

[00:58:14] Kevin Tu: A ton, yeah, a ton. From understanding where leads come from, right? I think a lot of AEs, like, they know how to take, I think we were talking about before, right? It’s, they’re back to the basketball analogy, it’s like, there are people who can finish, and then there’s people who can set it up, right? So, like, say like John Stockton, right? It’s a great.

[00:58:37] Marc Gonyea: Old school.

[00:58:38] Kevin Tu: Yeah.

[00:58:38] Marc Gonyea: Wow.

[00:58:39] Kevin Tu: You can, you can dish it a little,

[00:58:40] Marc Gonyea: You can dish it a little.

[00:58:41] Kevin Tu: you can dish it, and you can set it up. And then you had, like, Malone, who’s the finisher, right?

[00:58:47] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:58:47] Chris Corcoran: The mailman.

[00:58:48] Kevin Tu: Yes.

[00:58:48] Marc Gonyea: West Coast in heaven, too.

[00:58:51] Kevin Tu: Then you got, then, then there’s, you know, like Kyrie, for instance, right?

[00:58:56] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm, nobody wants to do…

[00:58:57] Kevin Tu: Uh.

[00:58:57] Marc Gonyea: That’s right. Keep going. Sorry.

[00:58:58] Kevin Tu: Uh, basketball-wise, right?

[00:59:00] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, yeah.

[00:59:00] Kevin Tu: He can create his own shot, right, off dribble or whatever, and it’s, like, he can do it, do it all on the offensive side, right? So, I think that’s important. Also, at the end of the day, it’s like, if you’re waiting for SDRs to continue to bringing leads, a lot of times, you know, pipeline dries up a little bit, right?

[00:59:20] You can’t rely on marketing all the time. And then SDRs, in general is not, like, if you’re planning on being in a company for, like, five years, four years, like a normal investing period, right? Let’s just say four years, it’s probably not likely you’re gonna have the same SDR for four years, right?

[00:59:39] Marc Gonyea: That might be a problem.

[00:59:40] Kevin Tu: Yeah, that might be a problem, either way, it might be a problem, right? So, there’s gonna be down periods where there’s gonna be a new SDR that comes in that maybe is new and has to get ramped up. So, at that time, like, who do you depend on, right, if you’re just depending on the same person over and over again, it’s like, it doesn’t make sense, so that’s important.

[01:00:01] Marc Gonyea: That’s a lot of knowledge.

[01:00:02] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, very good, this was lots of wisdom.

[01:00:05] Kevin Tu: Hopefully, I mean, I mean the company’s growing, there’s gonna be so many people coming in afterwards, right? That’s, it can be probably doing way better than me or whatever, but it’s, like, it’s pos, I mean, everyone that comes in here has an opportunity,

[01:00:19] I think I was telling them earlier, it’s like, when you come in here, it’s what kind of mindset do you have when you come in, right? Are you planning on being here, in your first year as an SDR, and make, like, if your thoughts like, “Hey, I’m gonna come in and make $150,000 my first year,” it’s like, you’re probably gonna be a little bit disappointed, right? Unless you’re crashing PPMs left and right, right? So,

[01:00:40] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, I can’t remember.

[01:00:41] Kevin Tu: So, it’s like, you’re gonna be a little disappointed, but if you come in here, I told ’em like, this is almost like an extension of college, but you guys pay people for it, it’s just, you know, that’s on you guys, but yeah, yeah.

[01:00:53] So, it’s like a paid internship almost, but it really sets, like, the groundwork of who you will be in like the next 10, 15, 20 years or something like that. So, I think coming with the right mindset, knowing what you want to get out of your time here and maximizing that, building those relationships,

[01:01:12] like everybody in here should connect with everybody who works here on LinkedIn, I think a lot of the guys here, that I worked with, we still share a group chat, right?

[01:01:22] Marc Gonyea: That’s awesome.

[01:01:23] Kevin Tu: So, like, what you’re talking about, Will, London, Victor, Victor was here…

[01:01:27] Marc Gonyea: Yep, Kendrick.

[01:01:29] Kevin Tu: Kendrick Trotter in tech stuff, he’s doing.

[01:01:34] Marc Gonyea: He’s coming in tomorrow.

[01:01:35] Kevin Tu: I saw the LinkedIn stuff on that. So, yeah, I’m part of that as well with Kendrick, so.

[01:01:39] Marc Gonyea: Great.

[01:01:40] Kevin Tu: That’s great, like, uh, Dylan Moneypenny, like

[01:01:43] Marc Gonyea: Moneypenny.

[01:01:44] Kevin Tu: So, like, you know, we’re all in the same group chat, you know, Isaiah Ma, like, they’re all in there. So, you know, anytime, like, opportunities come up, “My company’s hiring,” like, someone will shoot a message in the group like, “Hey, if you know anybody that’s looking for a job, my company has opportunities,” like, those connections will last, like, way past your time in memoryBlue. So, I think that’s.

[01:02:08] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, I mean,

[01:02:09] Chris Corcoran: That’s the way it’s supposed to be.

[01:02:10] Marc Gonyea: he’s an example of soaking it all in.

[01:02:12] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:02:13] Marc Gonyea: Right? Oh, you, you have, you just were ripping off names earlier. You remember what it’s like working with Yorkey, right? You gotta have a manager who gets in your business a little bit, right? Whether you like it or not, you know, because you remember that and you appreciate it later, and he’s a great guy, so.

[01:02:29] Chris Corcoran: You’re gonna be connected to those folks 10 years from now.

[01:02:32] Kevin Tu: A hundred percent.

[01:02:33] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, a hundred percent.

[01:02:34] Chris Corcoran: You guys.

[01:02:34] Kevin Tu: He’s working for a competitor, but, you know

[01:02:36] Chris Corcoran: You guys.

[01:02:36] Kevin Tu: save that for…

[01:02:37] Chris Corcoran: you guys can all help each other out at various parts of your career.

[01:02:40] Kevin Tu: Hundred percent.

[01:02:41] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, which is awesome, that’s hundred percent, that’s, strengthen numbers.

[01:02:44] Marc Gonyea: That’s the beauty of it.

[01:02:45] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, strengthen numbers.

[01:02:46] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, Kevin, I gotta say, like, you and these guys are fulfilling kind of the vision that Corcoran and I have when we started this thing, in this basement of this apartment. Well, we, and then our first office was next to the dump, like, hearing stuff like this, guys who grew up in California are rolling deep with each other, a company we started out of the basement, it’s crazy. So, dude, good work, man. Thanks for joining us.

[01:03:07] Kevin Tu: Yeah, great, absolutely, thank you for having me.

[01:03:09] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, thank you, K2.

Tech Sales is for Hustlers Podcast