Episode 37: Heather Bodenhamer – Discipline Means Freedom
Heather Bodenhamer didn’t plan on entering tech sales at all. She had her sights set on working in sports. But after coaching a professional women’s soccer team in Switzerland, and realizing that she would never make enough money as either a women’s coach or working for a physical therapy clinic, she found herself lacking a clear professional future. That’s when a friend told her about memoryBlue.
It took Heather some convincing to take the job, given her naturally shy personality, but after doing cold calls, she steadily became more confident. Her work path eventually led her to larger federal companies that gave her further insight into her current job path. In this episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers, Heather shares the benefits of discipline, she recounts the transition from SDR to AE, and she discusses ultimately how sales helped her come out of her shell.
Guest-At-A-Glance
Name: Heather Bodenhamer
What She Does: Heather works for Law Enforcement Operations at Authentic8.
Company:Authentic8
Noteworthy: Heather has worked for Authentic8, Cloudera, and Hacker One, since she worked for memoryBlue.
Exit Year from memoryBlue: 2017
Months at memoryBlue: 6
Alumni Path: Hired Out
Where to Find Heather:LinkedIn.
Key Insights
Learn to step beyond your boundaries. Heather Bodenhamer was a shy person; terrified of cold calling. “Yeah. So I still remember my first day being scared shitless about making a cold call, like sweating, heart beating out of my chest. But after that, you’re making a hundred calls a day.
You get used to it very quickly.”
Episode Highlights
Discipline Means Freedom.
Heather Bodenhamer believes that discipline is essential to have freedom. “Discipline equals freedom. That’s my big thing lately…I think it means, I mean, as simple as setting your alarm clock in the morning and waking up at that exact time every morning.”
Advice for Breaking into a Federal Position.
“I would say just start studying. Studying the agencies; studying the sub-agency. [It’s] just starting to know like, What is HQ? What comes down from there is you start to grasp and get the acronyms. Because that’s the biggest thing. Like we throw around acronyms all day. Sometimes I don’t even remember the real name of the agency.”
Step Out of Your Comfort Zone.
“I didn’t want to talk to people at all. I was very quiet, very shy. Like I didn’t really want friends at that point. So it wasn’t until memoryBlue that I think being forced to make the cold calls, being forced out of my comfort zone.
I think soccer, although hard, that was my comfort zone, you know? And you’re not talking to a lot of people in soccer, like you’re just playing. So, yeah, after that, I just started to notice my personality in everyday life. Outside of work, I was better able to articulate me or be a little bit more assertive whenever I needed it to be.”
Being a Manager.
“In how I do things to someone else. I can say it in a way that logically makes sense to me like, “Oh, I did X, Y, Z,” but then the other person goes and does X, Y, Z. And they’re not getting the same results. So there’s obviously something missing there that I’m like, I still to this day struggle to convey because it was just kind of like up in my brain.
And there’s like for the longest time now, I’m like, I wish I could just grab someone’s hand and like give them all the information in my brain or just like show them what I know. So I don’t know. I think that’s probably a skill to be learned. You know, how to teach someone what you’re doing.”
Transcript:
Heather Bodenhamer: [00:00:00] I feel like my mentality that I’ve had has always kind of carried me through, like, I’m still going to do the best that I can do. I would say the only things I really experienced are more subconscious, like biases on maybe this guy was picked for just an example. Maybe this guy was picked for a presentation over me, even though we have the same stats, but because he is a male.
[00:00:33] Marc Gonyea: [00:00:33] All right. Today, Heather Bodenhamer is in the house. Heather is an Account Executive, a law enforcement Account Executive.
[00:01:12] Heather. We’re happy you’re here. [00:01:12] Heather Bodenhamer: I’m glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:14] Chris Corcoran: It’s great to see you.
[00:01:17] Chris Corcoran: [00:01:17] It’s going to be fun.
[00:01:18] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:01:18] Yeah,
[00:01:19] Marc Gonyea: [00:01:19] it’s been a little while. It wasn’t that long, but it’s been a little while. I was checking before almost three and a half years, I think, give or take when you left us after a short amount of time, but let’s get into it.
[00:01:30] I was looking for some feedback on the podcast and one of the things I needed to do is get going more quickly when we have guests on. So let’s not dilly dally or I no pussyfooting around. Let’s let the audience get to know you a little bit. All right. So tell us a little bit about yourself, where you’re from.
[00:01:44] Where’d you grow up?
[00:01:45] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:01:45] Yeah, so I grew up in Springfield, Missouri. I left when I was 18 for college. I got recruited to play soccer at Arkansas. So it was about four hours away from my hometown. Did not like Arkansas at all. So after one year there, I was like, I need to go to a bigger city. I needed to get out.
[00:02:02] And I came to DC.
[00:02:03] Marc Gonyea: [00:02:03] We played soccer. How early, when did you start?
[00:02:05] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:02:05] So I started in second grade. I hated it, but my mom wouldn’t let me quit. So I was like, it’s too much running for second grader. So I played softball. I played basketball. I played mighty mites football and continued just, I always loved sports and it actually wasn’t until high school that I became very serious about soccer.
[00:02:26] My freshman year, I fell in love with it and couldn’t get away from it.
[00:02:30] Marc Gonyea: [00:02:30] And that led you or brought you to DC eventually, right?
[00:02:33] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:02:33] Yeah. I took a year off of school when I came out here and I was just saving up money. I was a live in nanny and DC and was trying to figure out where I was going to go to school after that.
[00:02:44] And then I ended up going to Montgomery college and played soccer there for two years. Won the national championship. Got a pretty good education for its good value there. And then that’s when I ended up at Marymount and Arlington, Virginia.
[00:02:56] Marc Gonyea: [00:02:56] Okay. And what’d you major in when you were there?
[00:02:57] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:02:57] Health science,
[00:02:58] Marc Gonyea: [00:02:58] playing soccer major in health science.
[00:03:00] And what’d you think you’re going to do when you got out of school?
[00:03:02] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:03:02] I was going to be a physical therapist and it took me six years to complete undergrad. Because I was transferring so much because soccer was the only thing I cared about. Didn’t really care how my education at that point. And yeah. So by that point, I was like, I’ve already done six years of undergrad.
[00:03:19] There’s no way I can do three more years of physical therapy school.
[00:03:22] Marc Gonyea: [00:03:22] So when you graduated from school, what were you doing?
[00:03:24] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:03:24] When I graduated from school, I went to Italy and I was coaching soccer.
[00:03:28] Marc Gonyea: [00:03:28] Let’s talk about that. It’s an interesting story. And maybe connect the dots between soccer and sail.
[00:03:33] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:03:33] Okay. So, well, I got recruited to play professionally in Switzerland.
[00:03:37] The only region in Switzerland that speaks Italian, which is how I ended up in Italy after it was an amazing experience. It was everything I ever wanted. And. But I had left school to go play. So I knew at a certain point, there’s not a lot of money in women’s soccer. And I was just like, if I don’t go back to the United States, I’m not going to graduate from college.
[00:03:57] And that was something that at that point I put so much time and it was like, I do need to focus on my education at some point. So I came back to the us, I took like seven classes, one semester, eight classes, and other to just like graduate within that year. Then left, went to Italy, still, not a lot of money in the situation and no stability.
[00:04:15] It was like living out of a duffel bag for all of these years. And so I was like, okay, I need to go back and try to build stability for myself and make some money came back with literally like $0 in my pocket. And I was like, okay, what am I going to do? So at that point I had a health science degree. I was working in a physical therapy clinic for like, 12 bucks an hour, getting paid every two weeks.
[00:04:38] I was like, okay, I can’t do anything with this. I was like staying with friends at that point. So I started bartending at local bar black Fen. And that’s actually where someone was like, Hey, you should check out memory blue. Cause I was like, I had no idea what I was going to do with my life.
[00:04:52] Marc Gonyea: [00:04:52] Wow. Okay. So physical therapy school was out
[00:04:55] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:04:55] yeah.
[00:04:55] Between the debt. It would have cumulated and the time. I was like, I need to make money now.
[00:05:00] Marc Gonyea: [00:05:00] God. And see you’re bartending and heard about memory blue.
[00:05:04] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:05:04] Yeah.
[00:05:04] Chris Corcoran: [00:05:04] How’d you hear about it? Was it just a customer or one of your
[00:05:07] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:05:07] coworkers? My coworkers who had grown up here and he just offhandedly mentioned it and I went home and started searching and I was like, Hmm, tech sales, maybe that’s for me, my dad, my grandpa, my great grandpa.
[00:05:21] They were all like real estate cars salesman.
[00:05:24] Marc Gonyea: [00:05:24] So what do you remember? Did you come in for an interview?
[00:05:28] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:05:28] Yeah, I submitted my stuff online or like my resume and everything. And then I think I had like two phone interviews before actually coming in and then I had the two interviews in person and then the like mock cold call.
[00:05:42] I remember that.
[00:05:44] Marc Gonyea: [00:05:44] Do you remember any of that?
[00:05:45] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:05:45] I don’t at this point, I think Joey was a part of it. Joey pleasure.
[00:05:48] Marc Gonyea: [00:05:48] Plush. Okay. Joey, push down Denver now run a Denver office. So you joined in tell us about that.
[00:05:54] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:05:54] Yeah. So I still remember my first day being scared, shitless about making a cold call, like sweating heart beating out of my chest.
[00:06:04] But after that, you’re making a hundred calls a day. You get used to it very quickly.
[00:06:08] Chris Corcoran: [00:06:08] Important thing to focus on for a minute. So you were scared about making a phone call. Meanwhile, you picked up, left your life in Missouri, came to DC, then picked up your life and move to Switzerland to where they spoke Italian, which you didn’t know how to speak at the time.
[00:06:22] And then you moved to Italy. So you’ve done all these crazy things that I would think would be much more scary than making a phone call. Yeah, the phone call was terrifying to you.
[00:06:30] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:06:30] So how’d you get past that? So you just do it. And then I think being in the environment that you guys set, where everyone is making their cold calls at the same time, it allows you to get past that initial threshold and then the comradery and everything, and you’re recording your calls, you’re being coached on it.
[00:06:45] And then you start to know how to do it. And that fear
[00:06:49] Marc Gonyea: [00:06:49] did you know what you’d be doing when you got there? Sometimes people, I wasn’t really sure what I’d be doing. I got there. It was pretty apparent to you that, Hey, I’m going to be making the work on the phones.
[00:06:57] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:06:57] Yeah, it was pretty clear just that the training environment that I was going to learn a new skill, a new vertical,
[00:07:05] Marc Gonyea: [00:07:05] and you weren’t with us that long.
[00:07:06] Let’s talk about it. Do you remember who you started with?
[00:07:08] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:07:08] So I started with Cloudera big data, advanced analytics, and it was actually their federal team who their office was also right here in Tysons. So all of that, or like my career, the way it’s, it’s panned out being federal is. Kind of down to luck.
[00:07:24] Getting Claus here is my first client. Honestly,
[00:07:28] Chris Corcoran: [00:07:28] we have all people all the time. They get on federal clients and they squander it or they’re not interested in it. So you took it and ran with it. So that was you not luck.
[00:07:35] Marc Gonyea: [00:07:35] I would argue. Clients always want to kick these campaigns really quickly. And I remember Cloudera and that was a really important client to us cause they did it all in Austin.
[00:07:45] And the person who ultimately in charge of it is well known in the industry. And this was an opportunity for us to get in the head, not outsourced it to my knowledge ever. Cause remember, we’ll talk about it. They have a lot of really smart people who work there, a lot of tools, but they needed some help on the federal side.
[00:07:58] So the clients who said, well, can’t we go? I said, well, we just don’t put anybody, any Tom, Dick or Harry on these campaigns or Jane. Right. We have to put people who were, we think are intelligent, articulate, aggressive go getters. So it’s not lucky that you ended up. That we hired you, you ended up there and you did well.
[00:08:14] I mean, maybe the universe is working in your favor and you ended up working for us and working on that campaign, but we didn’t just haphazardly say, Hey, we’ll just put Heather on this thing. Right. I guarantee that. Cause I remember you and I went over there to kick it off and plush, I think. And I was involved in it and I was involved with everyone back then and this high profile campaign.
[00:08:30] So it wasn’t, you were fortunate to be put on it, but it was definitely wasn’t luck this possibility for a second. So you’re an athlete your entire life. Right. And how have you applied. Being an athlete, maybe the job at memory blue, but even so your job now, then we’ll come back and talk about memory of a little bit more.
[00:08:45] Cause I don’t want to leave the soccer thing so far behind.
[00:08:46] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:08:46] Yeah. So I think any athlete can attest to, you have to do a lot of stuff that you don’t want to do. Right? You have to wake up early, you have to run, like it hurts most of the time, but having that mindset of discipline. Like I had to be disciplined in everything that I was doing.
[00:09:04] Obviously that’s going to spill over into whatever you do outside of that. I mean, if you carry it on, I think for me, someone that’s played their whole life, it’s like very ingrained into who I am. Like, I don’t know anything else. Side of that almost to the point where it’s annoying. Like, it’s very hard for me to chill, to relax.
[00:09:21] I cannot watch TV shows because I can’t sit still long enough. Like I’m always going still. So it’s almost to a fault, but obviously there’s a lot of positives that come from being super disciplined because you can set a high goal and then you can literally chunk it down to okay. Daily. This is what I have to do.
[00:09:39] To get there.
[00:09:40] Marc Gonyea: [00:09:40] Yeah. And how did that relate to being a member of blue in the early days of your sales career?
[00:09:45] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:09:45] Especially having Cloudera and federal to things. I didn’t know anything about. I was just constantly like trying to find a way doing the work regardless. And I think that’s what Cloudera saw and why they hired me out so quickly is because I just constantly was trying new things or.
[00:10:00] I was just putting in the work. And even if you’re not that talented early in your career, but you’re putting in the work, people are going to recognize that and eventually that’s going to produce results.
[00:10:10] Marc Gonyea: [00:10:10] Absolutely. And you were telling us about discipline. You should discipline creates freedom. Is that what you equated?
[00:10:15] Yeah. So
[00:10:15] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:10:15] discipline equals freedom. That’s when my big thing lately.
[00:10:18] Marc Gonyea: [00:10:18] Tell me, what will that mean to you?
[00:10:20] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:10:20] I think it means simple as setting your alarm clock in the morning and waking up at that exact time every morning. If there’s ever a morning that say I don’t wake up, well, I have an alarm that makes you wake up.
[00:10:31] You have to play brain games and like take a picture in another room. Yeah. Because my morning routine was messed up for a while. I couldn’t get that side down and I’d be so angry with myself. Like there’s so much I need to do in the morning, but if you have that discipline with yourself, you have a big goal, right?
[00:10:46] It’s like, you’re doing the work, right? Like you may have an off day, you’re sore. You don’t want to do it. You don’t want to wake up, but you’re still doing that. And that is a form of self-love to an extent. And then that creates the freedom that you desire, because if you can’t make yourself do these things, and you’re going to be frustrated with yourself, you’re not going to accomplish what you want to accomplish.
[00:11:05] So I think discipline is one of the most important skills to have in life and to have it tattooed on my foot.
[00:11:11] Marc Gonyea: [00:11:11] You do when you’re in step
[00:11:13] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:11:13] at the end side, but that was my first tattoo at 19. Yeah.
[00:11:16] Chris Corcoran: [00:11:16] So lots of people talk about discipline. You live it and you believe it
[00:11:20] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:11:20] literally, but it’s funny if you ask my mom or my parents, I was always that weird kid that was.
[00:11:27] Had the ball at the park until dark or I was reading or writing. Like, I didn’t have a lot of friends growing up, but it wasn’t like I wanted them. It was because I was so focused on what I was doing, that I was like friends. I can’t be bothered.
[00:11:39] Chris Corcoran: [00:11:39] I love the single-minded. Yeah.
[00:11:43] Marc Gonyea: [00:11:43] So when you at memory blue, do you have any friends at memory blue when you started?
[00:11:46] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:11:46] No, I was there for five months. I mean, I definitely saw people in the network, but I didn’t, at that point, I think I was still very like single focused
[00:11:55] Marc Gonyea: [00:11:55] getting your job done. Okay. So take us through your memory, blue learning the federal market, learn that being on the phones, research, those sorts of things.
[00:12:02] If you go back in time, what would you tell yourself? But the night before you started.
[00:12:06] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:12:06] Don’t be so nervous about the cold call. You kind of get used to it. It’s going to be nothing. Other than that, I look back at who I was then, I mean, four years ago. And I just appreciate that drive that carried me through.
[00:12:19] I don’t know that there’s much other advice. No, it’s good. Just work.
[00:12:22] Marc Gonyea: [00:12:22] Sounds like, just go in and do your thing.
[00:12:24] Chris Corcoran: [00:12:24] So you were on Cloudera. Were you on another client? As well.
[00:12:27] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:12:27] Yeah, I did have Pierce matrix for a little bit.
[00:12:30] Chris Corcoran: [00:12:30] Was that federal or commercial?
[00:12:31] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:12:31] No, it was commercial. It was cyber security. I think they ended up getting bought out by someone else.
[00:12:37] It was such a niche like product at that time, it was hard to sell honestly, but eventually I think they ended up just going with one person who was Wilson. I don’t know if you guys remember Wilson. Yeah. So he was primarily working with them and that’s when, because he and I were both on Cloudera, so we kind of switched.
[00:12:56] So he took Pierce matrix full-time and I took clutter full-time
[00:12:59] Marc Gonyea: [00:12:59] that’s right. It, how did the transition occur? So you’ve done a good job. Do you remember anything about Cloudera that said, hey, why don’t you come and join us?
[00:13:06] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:13:06] A moment where I had been doing a bunch of research and I found a PowerPoint presentation on like advanced analytics for Noah, which is National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration.
[00:13:21] Marc Gonyea: [00:13:21] If you say so there you go. You’re in fed. Yeah.
[00:13:24] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:13:24] So I found a presentation with a name on it that was leading this advanced analytics goal or something for the initiative. There we go. And I reached out to him and got a meeting with him. And I think Cloudera was just so like blown away with that. They’re like, you did this?
[00:13:39] And then I think from there, they were like, okay,
[00:13:41] Marc Gonyea: [00:13:41] Wow. I mean, that’s pretty amazing. So six months in, you’re working for a leading emerging technology company. I don’t know if they’d gone public by that point or then, but that was a great company.
[00:13:49] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:13:49] Yeah. Just IPO’d, like the month before I came on.
[00:13:53] Marc Gonyea: [00:13:53] Yeah. So then you joined their team and what was that like, that transition?
[00:13:56] So you went from working for memoryBlue, which is a relatively small consulting company. In an interesting office in Fairfax, Virginia. Right. And then just down the road, you sort of worked for Cloudera a hundred percent federal, all federal, all day, all night, nothing since then.
[00:14:08] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:14:08] Right? Nothing since then.
[00:14:09] I don’t know anything else.
[00:14:11] Marc Gonyea: [00:14:11] That’s, that’s I think that’s an advantage. So what was it like going to work for them?
[00:14:14] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:14:14] Honestly, I mean, they had been my client at that point the whole time. So the only difference I think, was reporting to that office, going through their training process, because at that point it was just memoryBlue’s training, but I think it was really beneficial to start with a big corporation because they had a lot of processes in place for an SDR specifically, even though all their SDRs were in Austin.
[00:14:39] So I was just kind of in this empty office with my coworker, Rob Gam. And it was just the two of us every day, like dialing. But at that point I had a little bit more ability to try out like email campaigns. I ended up having a lot of us with that as well, because we didn’t have the metrics of a hundred dials a day.
[00:14:57] So yeah. I mean, the transition was fairly easy and I feel like it just allowed me to further increase my skills on the phones and via email and then federal.
[00:15:05] Chris Corcoran: [00:15:05] So what advice would you give to someone who wants to break into federal?
[00:15:09] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:15:09] I would say just start studying, studying the agencies, studying sub-agencies, just starting to know, like, what is HQ?
[00:15:19] What comes down from there? You start to grasp, get the acronyms. Because that’s the biggest thing. Like we throw around acronyms all day. Like sometimes I don’t even remember the real name of the agency. I’m just like, no, it has an acronym, but I would say if you want to break into fed, start there so that when you, you go to a company it’s like, you at least know what they’re talking about.
[00:15:40] And there’s a wealth of information online, just simple Google searches mean you can find people, agencies, cybersecurity plans for the years. Just talk to other people who have been in the industry as well. So they can give you more details on like exactly what we’re doing here. Like my story, how I got started.
[00:15:58] Chris Corcoran: [00:15:58] So, but like when you were at memoryBlue, Joey Plesce, or no one said, “Heather, this is how fed sales works.” No one taught you that. So how did you learn? You just, you taught yourself essentially, right?
[00:16:07] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:16:07] Yeah. Tons of research just in this research on Google and reading through documents and figuring it out from there.
[00:16:15] Chris Corcoran: [00:16:15] So just having a curiosity towards it and reading it, and one thing will lead to another and then that’s kind of how you learned.
[00:16:22] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:16:22] Absolutely. And time definitely plays a role. Now I’m four years in and it’s hard to really pinpoint, Oh, I did XYZ because you just accumulate that information. But I think once I got to, well, we’re not quite there yet, but once I got to Authenticat8, a small startup, then all of my knowledge really came into place.
[00:16:41] But I also picked up so much because they didn’t have those processes in place. And I was the first SDR over there. So it was a lot more figuring everything out and how’s this going to work and making mistakes. You have to make mistakes. I mean, the amount of times I’ve like reached out to someone and someone else is working with them and it’s like, you’re going to step on some toes, but that’s going to happen.
[00:17:02] Marc Gonyea: [00:17:02] So let’s talk about that. So you’re at Cloudera, right? So you were with us. You essentially worked for Cloudera the entire time. That’s the way I look at it. Because you worked for us, but you were on Cloudera and then you worked for Cloudera for a little while, and then you decided to go kind of spread your wings a little bit more.
[00:17:15] How did that happen and why? And then talk to us about that.
[00:17:18] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:17:18] And it was at Cloudera, I mentioned it was kind of just in an empty office with my coworker. All the other SDRs were in Austin. There wasn’t a lot of flexibility, you know, it was like, come in at 8:00 AM, leave at a certain time, no working from home.
[00:17:31] And that starts to wear on you, you know, especially as an SDR and even at memoryBlue, we had a lot of flexibility in the middle of the day outside of like call blocks at that time.
[00:17:40] Marc Gonyea: [00:17:40] Still do, maybe too much flexibility, but you know, let’s start another day.
[00:17:44] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:17:44] It was great. I loved that. I was kind of used to that at memoryBlue and then when I transitioned just that rigid schedule was really hard to keep up with.
[00:17:51] Because I was at Cloudera only for another six months, but at that point, you know, I had accumulated the skills and I was like, okay, what else is out there? And my coworker, Rob, as well, we were kind of always talking about it. Like maybe we wanted to go to a technical role. Did I really want to become an AE? What does that process look like?
[00:18:09] And then, through a family friend who actually grew up in Missouri as well, he reached out to me and was like, “Hey, I’m working in the DC area now, are you still here?” And turns out he was working at Recorded Future right across the street from Cloudera. Yeah, small world. I hadn’t seen the guy in 20 some years.
[00:18:26] This is like elementary school and a bunch of the guys from Recorded Future went over to start Authenticat8. So he’s like, “Hey, through the grapevine I heard of Authenticat8, you should probably hit them up and see what’s going on.”
[00:18:37] Marc Gonyea: [00:18:37] And you did. So you went from a public traded company in cyber and Cloudera was not real, not really cyber firm.
[00:18:43] So talk about that transition. And before we get to that, let’s talk about, we said something yesterday. We were talking how, I don’t think it comes across that way, but you consider yourself a shy person until you got to memoryBlue. This is, fill us in on that, because I don’t think anyone listening would pick up on it.
[00:18:55] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:18:55] This is funny because I was talking to my mom yesterday and I was like, remember how shy of a kid I was. So I used to have to ask my little sister to like ask people for water or food or anything. I didn’t like didn’t want to talk to people at all. It was very quiet, very shy, also ties into the individual.
[00:19:15] Like I didn’t really want friends at that point. So it wasn’t until memoryBlue that I think being forced to make the cold calls, being forced like out of my comfort zone, because soccer was, although hard, that was my comfort zone and you’re not talking to a lot of people in soccer, you’re just playing.
[00:19:32] So after that, I just started to notice my personality in everyday life outside of work, I was better able to articulate myself or be a little bit more assertive whenever I needed to be. And that has just skyrocketed and yeah, anytime I tell someone I’m like, yeah, I used to be really shy even into my mid twenties.
[00:19:51] They’re like, there’s no way. There’s no way that was you. But my mom can attest.
[00:19:55] Marc Gonyea: [00:19:55] That’s all attributed to getting on the phones.
[00:19:57] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:19:57] Yes. Not all, partially. Phones and sales in general
[00:20:01] Marc Gonyea: [00:20:01] Sales in general. Okay, good. I’m glad we hit that. All right. So when did Authenticat8 startup from a public traded company? And it sounds like, what, did you go into an office with people, only meaning at Cloudera you’re kind of a remote office.
[00:20:11] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:20:11] right?
[00:20:12] So the funny thing is I turned down the first offer from Authentic8. Because I was scared because they were like just creating their DC office. I had a lot of things in place at Cloudera. That was very set. And I was like, okay, I don’t know if this is for me the way it was. There was a lot of uncertainty, right.
[00:20:29] So I turned down the first offer my coworker, Rob went over to Authenticat8. He was there for maybe two, three months. And he’s like, Heather, it’s incredible. You have to come over. So then he told them, give her another shot. So they ended up, started talking again and they’re like, okay, do you want to come over?
[00:20:45] I’m like, yes. I made the leap at that point. So I was scared
[00:20:49] Marc Gonyea: [00:20:49] Because we talked about this club. There is a great company, right? You said they had all sorts of resources. They had training. I mean, you were kind of in a satellite office, so to speak, but that’s not an easy company.
[00:20:59] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:20:59] No. Well, and I think the thing too, with Cloudera being so big is that like all the account executives were so much older, they had so many years in the industry and the way I saw it was, how am I going to move up here? I didn’t see a path there.
I’m talking older men in the office or where they were veterans at one point, like lots of experience. So I transitioned to Authenticat8. It was definitely taking that leap, but I was like, there’s going to be a lot of growth here and I kind of needed that next step to get out of my comfort zone.
[00:21:28] Marc Gonyea: [00:21:28] And let’s talk about that because you hinted at it earlier. You weren’t entirely sure what, because now you’re in sales, but you weren’t even sure what you wanted to do. You were kind of like vacillating, like this, talk about that. And then we’ll talk about getting into that.
[00:21:38] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:21:38] The idea of being an account executive was never thing that resonated with me.
[00:21:44] It was like, it seems like so much stress, so much work. Why would I want to do that? But what’s my alternative? I’m kind of like digging my hole in this world here. Like, what am I going to do? So I obviously continued being an SDR at Authenticat8, but there was potential to take a more technical route. So I thought that’s what I wanted to do.
[00:22:04] I’m like less cold calling less prospecting. I’m just the technical person on the call. Like, and in my mind, that was the easier route to take.
[00:22:13] Marc Gonyea: [00:22:13] It’s the one you felt more comfortable with, right? Not necessarily easy. Some people would be horrified having to learn more about technology. Okay. So that was kind of on the past.
[00:22:20] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:22:20] So that was where I thought I wanted to go. And I ended up doing six months of solutions engineering training. So I learned the product inside and out, which was really awesome that they allowed me to do that while still being an SDR. I was just like, I had side projects or side meetings and demos that I was pulled into and they ended up restructuring the way that the solutions engineers team worked. So there ended up not being a spot for me. So after that I was back to, okay, what am I going to do? My manager, who is a really good friend of mine was like, even, she was like, I don’t think you would like the account executive role. Maybe you should go into management. So that’s when I became the SDR team lead.
[00:23:04] Because I had that. She’s like your natural leader. You’re good at teaching people, et cetera.
[00:23:09] Marc Gonyea: [00:23:09] You coach soccer.
[00:23:11] Chris Corcoran: [00:23:11] Italy, right. You’ve coached before. So it was a natural evolution for you.
[00:23:16] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:23:16] Well, I coached and I was also a captain of my high school and college soccer teams. So it was natural to me too. It still is to be in this leadership role without even trying.
[00:23:27] It just kind of happens that way. But I was not convinced. I was like, I don’t want to hold hands. At that point. It was still like, I don’t know how good I am with people because I still have that kind of lone Wolf mentality of just let me go do my thing. How can I like bring people with me?
[00:23:43] Marc Gonyea: [00:23:43] So what changed?
[00:23:44] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:23:44] So this is January of this year. So January, 2020, I had reached a another point with Authentic8. I’ve been there two years in some months and I was like, again, what’s next? Right? Do I want to wait out and see if a manager role opens up again? There wasn’t really a lot of avenues being a smaller company we growing quickly, but it was still, they wanted experienced people as an account executive because they needed that.
[00:24:09] Marc Gonyea: [00:24:09] Takes some time. Sometimes
[00:24:11] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:24:11] It takes time and my mind, and maybe some other people who have been SDRs it’s like, we’re told, Oh, you’re only in this role for a year. Maybe two at this point had been three years for me that I was an SDR. And I was like, there was a little burnout for sure. Of course.
[00:24:26] Marc Gonyea: [00:24:26] Yeah.
[00:24:26] Especially doing it in fed, but this is a good story. And before we go back real quick, Is, you were also smart enough to take a job at a company that allowed you to do something else. Quote, unquote, as a side project. So you were there and we tell people this. So I tell people, this is, you still have to use those SDR skills to get into an opportunity to do something like you kind of sound like you bartered.
[00:24:44] I don’t know what you did, but you did something where you put yourself in a position to go get this technical training while you were doing the SDR work. And that’s like a great Avenue, a great way to go is use your skillset. You already possessed to get kind of what you want. Those are real good strategic move on your part.
[00:24:57] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:24:57] Yeah. Well, I’m absolutely grateful to the company for how they’re structured and how they care about us growing. I also will say my numbers were great. So at that point, I had some leeway. I would think if I was failing at my numbers, I’m pretty sure they would have been like, no, you need to focus on hitting your numbers.
[00:25:18] But the fact that I had found a good groove and a good flow, I think they were like, okay, we trust that you can take on the side project and not dip in your numbers. And that’s what happened.
[00:25:27] Marc Gonyea: [00:25:27] You indicated that we were, Chris and I, were talking to you about how you start doubling your numbers or how did that happen?
[00:25:32] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:25:32] I think it was the year at Authentic8 and something clicked for me, something about maybe the product knowledge or just the skills I had accumulated in the industry. And I found another avenue to prospect through LinkedIn and my numbers just skyrocketed at that point, I started doubling my quota and yeah, it was really good for everyone.
[00:25:53] Chris Corcoran: [00:25:53] Well, you develop fluency, not only in a federal sales, that whole industry and how that works. But then also the solution that you were selling your side project was becoming a solutions engineer where you understand the technology that gives you so much credibility with the people that you’re prospecting into that they say, obviously, Heather knows what she’s talking about.
[00:26:10] I’m going to continue this conversation. I get calls all the time from people who, you know, they don’t know what they’re talking about, and that’s a very short call versus if you can show that you do know what you’re talking about, you’re going to have credibility and with credibility, you’re going to have success.
[00:26:24] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:26:24] Yeah. And I think there is a fine line between knowing so much about the product and then like still kind of playing, like, I’m not the expert here when you’re talking to these people and that’s something I had to learn too. You go in, you word vomit and you’re like, Oh, I know all this cool stuff about my product.
[00:26:39] You know, you have to have it. But I think that’s part of sales training in general and just, yeah. Maturing in the industry, but it does help in terms of even a subconscious confidence of, Hey, I know the product in and out. Any question, ask me if it’s really in my wheelhouse to answer, I can, otherwise I can play the dummy and be like, Oh, let me get you on a call.
[00:26:59] You know? So I think that confidence definitely did play in of. I knew the product I knew. I knew what I was talking about and the use cases were so solid for fed that it literally comes down to just maybe they don’t have budget at that point. So when you have all that kind of good combination, it’s really easy to go in with conviction and be like, you need to see this.
[00:28:25] Marc Gonyea: [00:28:25] Right? Cause we talk about how people want to get in the SDR role and they want to get out, but you are able to, you being in it for a little while really helped you, especially when we get to what you’re doing now, it, how did you not committed to it for as long? Maybe you wouldn’t be where you are now.
[00:28:37] Because I see some people who parachute out of this year, a little too early and they’re not prepared for the next thing. And then they wash out and it’s like, cutting your nose off to spite your face a little bit.
[00:28:46] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:28:46] Yeah. I could see that for sure. Yeah. So I was an SDR for four years. I just transitioned into a closing role in September.
[00:28:53] So if you would have told me back then it was going to take me four years. That would have been a hard pill to swallow, but like you said, I’m glad it worked out that way because I have so many more things. Skills that I can apply to this role. And when you’re in an AE role, you don’t stop being an SDR some day.
[00:29:11] Marc Gonyea: [00:29:11] No, sir. What do you mean by that? What do you mean? To not stop being an SDR.
[00:29:15] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:29:15] You can, if you want to be lazy, but at the end of the day, I’m prospecting just as hard as my SDR is prospecting because I want more in my pipeline. I want to source more deals. If I’m just sitting on my hands, waiting for these meetings to be passed to me, like it’s not a good look for my business and my pipeline and what I’m trying to control.
[00:29:32] Like I don’t want it in anyone else’s hands, basically. It’s a bad look. It is bad luck.
[00:29:38] Marc Gonyea: [00:29:38] Yeah. We’ll come back to the, your journey, but I mean, where you are now, I’m jumping a little bit ahead, but you’re working for an amazing company. Started by some really smart people, backed by some really smart people with some smart ass customers in the federal and space and cyber.
[00:29:51] I mean, people would argue that cyber uncle Sam is ahead of the game in many aspects. So you don’t start over, you don’t gain fluency overnight. It takes some time. So this is a testament to what you’ve been doing the past four years. So hats off to you. So Vanessa tried to talk you into being a team lead and she did successfully, right?
[00:30:09] So let’s go back to that. What was that like?
[00:30:11] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:30:11] Yeah. So Vanessa still, my manager now, she actually recently took over full sales is no longer the SDR manager. She talked me into the role. I was already doing a lot of the stuff like writing email campaigns for everyone. Doing trainings on certain prospecting techniques, et cetera.
[00:30:29] So it really came down to a little bit more responsibility on my plate and Vanessa and our commercial SDRs set in Indianapolis. So I really kind of started the gap between marketing and her team in Indianapolis and then federal and my team. I had two other people under me that were federal SDRs. So a lot of extra meetings, I guess, more writing campaigns and just holding people accountable to hitting their numbers at that point.
[00:30:56] Yeah.
[00:30:57] Marc Gonyea: [00:30:57] Would you learn about yourself doing that? That’s difficult. That’s like the biggest challenge that anyone has as a manager, but in particularly when you’ve gone from being kind of a pair this with someone so young in your career, they’re like now you have to hold them kind of accountable. Yes. You have a boss, but still you’re the team lead.
[00:31:11] There’s some expectations, right?
[00:31:12] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:31:12] Yeah. One of the guys on my team, he always did very well that he’s. Older than me, like mid thirties, I think. So it was kind of, I was in a position then of being his team lead. Another one of the girls on my team was fresh out of college. So there was a big gap there. So definitely managing.
[00:31:32] Okay. I’ve been your peer all this time. Now I’m in a little bit more of an authority position. How do I say what I need to say? Or what’s coming down from Vanessa without sounding like, Oh, I’m better than you now, or this or that. So, but they were awesome. I mean, the company as a whole, we’re all so close.
[00:31:50] Like the people I work with are my best friends in real life. And even Vanessa, like I can go to her with anything day or night and she gives me life advice all the time. So I think they were really great about it. There was no real like animosity or oddness. They would start asking me like, Oh, can I do this or that?
[00:32:08] And I’d be like, that’s way outside of me go to Vanessa, you know, stuff like that. But I know you had asked what I learned about myself. I feel like I do appreciate being a leader and I like helping others. What is sometimes hard for me to convey is what I know and how I do things. To someone else. And I can say it in a way that logically makes sense to me, like, Oh, I did X, Y, Z, but then the other person goes and does XYZ and they’re not getting the same results.
[00:32:35] So there’s obviously something missing there that I’m like still to this day, struggled to convey because it was just kind of like up in my brain. And there’s like, for the longest time now, I’m like, I wish I could just grab someone’s hand and like give them all the information in my brain or just like show them what I know.
[00:32:51] So, I dunno, I think that’s probably a skill to be learned how to teach someone what you’re doing.
[00:32:56] Marc Gonyea: [00:32:56] I’m sure you did more than you thought. Cause you, you learned, obviously I’m going to think you were all training towards the memory blue and then learned on your own at memory loop, but also on your own and at Cloudera.
[00:33:05] So you’re taking folks and some people are just gonna. Learn by observation, by watching you do what you do and then whatever, maybe you’re being too hard on yourself. But my guess is you’ve taught them a lot. You learn from them as well, but the reason why you put in that role, like the coach, that great experience, and you’ve got a strong game because if you didn’t get a strong game, you wouldn’t be doubling your number, like when you’re kind of massive.
[00:33:24] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:33:24] Yeah. Well, and even now, now that I’m in a closing role and I’m passing myself my own meetings. I’m like, man, it wouldn’t be so easy to still be an SDR because it gets to a point where it’s just second nature and you’re obviously not getting paid on the meetings. You’re passing to yourself only closing meetings.
[00:33:42] So I do think about that all the time. But now when I’m working with the SDRs, currently, I tell them that I’m like, yo, milk this for all you can, because I don’t know a lot of other places, but as an SDR was never kept on commission. So I’m just shelling out meetings, obviously making sure they’re good quality, but at that point, it’s you and you, how much work are you going to put in?
[00:34:05] And closing is a lot more difficult than just sourcing the meeting.
[00:34:09] Marc Gonyea: [00:34:09] Talk about that, Chris. Right? What are your thoughts on this? People who think the S you know,
[00:34:13] Chris Corcoran: [00:34:13] Well, most of the people who think that sourcing is harder than closing are sourcers, or SDRs. But then once the SDR moves to a point where they need to run the whole thing, like Marc and I used to talk about all the time of like, I can get this guy to show up for a meeting.
[00:34:27] There’s no way in hell we can close them, but I can definitely get their curiosity or whatever, get this person for a meeting versus now that you’re on the East side, it’s like, all right, well, that’s great that I’m running this discovery call, but definitely the SDR who teed it up was just trying to get the meeting.
[00:34:41] Have you seen that?
[00:34:42] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:34:42] Uh, I have seen it, but at the same time, I’m at a point where I’m just building my pipe that I’m like, just give it to me at this point. Obviously when my schedule becomes a little bit more busy than I’ll be more picky. And I’ve definitely done that before in the past. I mean, come on now.
[00:34:59] I was so close with my AEs that there were literally some that after the fact I’d be like, I’m so sorry I passed you that meeting. Like, I didn’t know it was quite going to go like that. Because you have numbers to hit too.
[00:35:10] Chris Corcoran: [00:35:10] Yeah. And plus you don’t know, you never know what’s going to happen. And so I would always, as an AE I would rather have more discovery calls than less discovery calls because you never know what you can uncover.
[00:35:20] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:35:20] Absolutely. Like I said, at this point, I’m just like pack my calendar. That’s all I wanted this way.
[00:35:26] Marc Gonyea: [00:35:26] All right, well here. So, all right. So you were at Authentic8, but maybe as you were kind of learning and continue your career development, what could keep going with that? Your journey?
[00:35:34] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:35:34] Yeah, so I kinda got sidetracked, but so January, 2020 this year, I kind of hit another wall where I wasn’t sure where I was going to go.
[00:35:43] The engineering thing was off the table. There was no real route to being an AE. And I was actually headhunted for another company, another Silicon Valley company that wanted to start a federal team. So it looked all bright and shiny. I was like, Oh, well, I came into Authentic8 and it was an amazing experience.
[00:36:00] And we started the federal team. Let’s do it again. I’m like all this green space, it’s going to be awesome. And I’m thinking, you know, a ton of money and everything like that sometimes. You take a leap and you fail and that’s okay. So that was definitely one of those experiences for me. When it comes to federal, there are very specific things you need to do to make a successful sales organization.
[00:36:22] And it really seemed like this organization just hired two salespeople from DC and we’re like, Go figure it out. That should be enough to create a federal team, but as we quickly realized that has never enough when it comes to fed. So I was trying to find my way out of there. At that point, it was not a fit for me in my career.
[00:36:44] I would have left sooner, but then COVID hit. So I really just weighted things out, but I was. Pretty much miserable every day. And that’s when I realized I always knew I had a really good thing at authenticate, but that’s when I really realize you don’t realize what you miss until it’s gone. And I was like, what did I do?
[00:37:01] Like the first day I left and I had to go to San Francisco for three weeks for training, I was crying in the bathroom. I don’t think I’ve ever told anyone this, but I was like, I’ve made a mistake. What am I going to do from here? And at that point, it was trying to take what I could from that experience.
[00:37:19] But I had so much flexibility and freedom and authenticate in terms of like training and what I was like teaching myself and just growing beyond an SDR role that at this company, I was put very much back into just an SDR role of like I had homeworks to do, and like on my communication style and like very micromanaging and stuff like that.
[00:37:43] And at that point I realized. This is not meshing with me and the way that I’ve been allowed to work at Authentic8, I will admit I was not doing well there. It was very difficult for me to jive with that company, the offering, et cetera.
[00:37:59] Marc Gonyea: [00:37:59] It’s like you’re a soccer player who likes the ball at their feet, the team plays a very direct style.
[00:38:04] All right. And like, you’re like, huh. And you have to play the ball of my feet for me. It’ll work here. But when you see or you hear about it, I’m no expert, but also cracking the code in the federal space is very difficult. Right? So nothing personal with the farm or the people who work there, but they have to time that.
[00:38:16] All very well. You’ve got all these certifications. You’ve got to get these alliances. It’s a very complex matter.
[00:38:21] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:38:21] Yeah. We parted like good ways. I didn’t burn any bridges or anything like that. I think it was very understood. The reasons why I was walking away and I had been planting seeds to potentially come back to authenticate.
[00:38:36] Because, like I mentioned, all the people, there are my best friends in real life, and I felt very left out. Like I had extreme FOMO. They would tell me about things that were going on. It was kind of like, I never, I did leave Authentic8, but at the same time, um, I always knew what was going on. So it was like pulling on my heart strings to like know my friends would talk about things that had happened and be like, guys.
[00:38:57] And at that point I had been honest with Vanessa that I wasn’t happy where I was. And she had kind of made a joke like, well, will you come back and like sell for me? And I was like, yes. And she’s like, wait, really? And I was like, yes. So we had kind of left that on the table. We didn’t really talk about it more after that.
[00:39:14] And then I was actually moving from my apartment with my best friend. Who’s still works at Authentic8. And the director had called her. And so I was in the background and I was like, “Oh, Hey, just telling him hi.” He’s like, wait, let me talk to Heather. And so I get on the phone and he was like, I need you to come back and I need you to sell law enforcement for me.
[00:39:33] I was like, all right, done. And that’s how it happened. I came back.
[00:39:36] Chris Corcoran: [00:39:36] You make your triumphant return?
[00:39:38] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:39:38] Yes. So I’m always like we have so many new people coming on. When I started, we were like under a 10 on the federal team. Now I think we’re like 30, maybe 50 on the federal team and then a hundred overall in the company.
[00:39:51] So its tremendous, but so we constantly are having new people on and I’m having to introduce myself and I’m like, well, I left begged them to take me back. And now I’m here.
[00:40:00] Chris Corcoran: [00:40:00] So I’ve always been fascinated with federal sales, just being in Northern Virginia, right outside of DC, and then always being a commercial rep and just never have done it.
[00:40:08] And no one spends more money on technology than the federal government. Right? And so sometimes when I’m talking to people who are in federal sales, I asked them about vice this, that, and the other. And one thing that I hear from experienced federal folks is whatever you do, don’t be the first one in federal.
[00:40:24] And it sounds like you experienced that a little bit where it was under-resourced and sometimes I guess the pioneer takes the arrows.
[00:40:31] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:40:31] Yeah, absolutely. A good example of that as Authentic8, they hired very specific strategic people. To get this thing off the ground. And I won’t go into numbers specifically, but that shows the growth has just tremendous.
[00:40:46] On the flip side, obviously the company I left to go to prior various Silicon Valley, but they didn’t have anyone on the ground in DC. They didn’t have the strategy really in place. I think it just sounded like a good idea. To get into fed. Cause like you said, there’s so much money to be in their budgets, et cetera.
[00:41:07] So it is very difficult to blaze that trail, especially depending on the technology. If it’s a technology that the government is not up to speed with and they’re not ready to adopt, you’re going to have a hell of a time. Sure someone might be like, Oh, this is cool. And then you start getting into those end up conversations.
[00:41:24] And they’re like, this is way over our head. We’re nowhere near being ready for this technology. And then what do you, do you have numbers to hit? You’re sitting on your hands. You’re trying to educate people or you’re trying to go to shows, but you still have a quota. So it’s kind of, do you believe in the vision enough and are you willing to sacrifice enough to reach that point?
[00:41:43] Maybe for a director, maybe for more of those strategic people. Sure. That can be a good move, but for someone who’s just a salesperson in my eyes, it’s not worth it. Right. It’s not worth all that hassle and the uphill battle essentially. And that might just be my perspective.
[00:41:59] Marc Gonyea: [00:41:59] Sounds like a low probability of success in that role for that person, for what you’re trying to achieve in your career at that time.
[00:42:05] So you made, that’s very wise. So you made your return and you came back and what’d you come back as?
[00:42:10] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:42:10] Law enforcement account executive. So I cover all law enforcement for the United States and then a couple of fed Civ law enforcement units.
[00:42:18] Marc Gonyea: [00:42:18] Exciting.
[00:42:19] Chris Corcoran: [00:42:19] So you an AE, you’re carrying a bag and you have some SDR support too, right?
[00:42:23] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:42:23] Yes, actually, my SDR is a memoryBlue alumni as well. John Seidenworm.
[00:42:31] Marc Gonyea: [00:42:31] There you go. There you go. You got it. It is a little difficult. It’s not Bodenhamer. It’s like, you’re just like two last names smashed into one has got a more syllables. He’s really good.
[00:42:39] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:42:39] He came on, he’s already been booking my calendar, which is amazing.
[00:42:44] And he was in a closing role. Prior. So I was really fascinated that he came back as an SDR and, but never has he once, like had this air of arrogance or position of like, Oh, I was in a closing role prior, very humble, very intelligent guy. And I was super excited when Vanessa was telling me, Oh, he’s going to be like your SDR.
[00:43:04] I was like, yes, let’s go. I know he’s memoryBlue trained. And it shows, like he already knows what he’s doing. And. I think going back to being an SDR for so long, and then being able to be in a closing role as NEHI, you’re able to better support your SDRs as well. Cause I’ve worked with some AEs who were never an SDR and it’s like, they are so clueless and yeah, they make your life so difficult.
[00:43:27] Chris Corcoran: [00:43:27] Do my expense report.
[00:43:28] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:43:28] Literally they will treat you like an assistant. I’ve had that before and I try to be. The AE would have wanted, I guess John would be my first like, SDR that I’ve had on supporting me. But yeah, he’s awesome.
[00:43:42] Marc Gonyea: [00:43:42] So a couple of different places we could go. We’ll talk a little bit about us.
[00:43:46] We kind of get to a close, tell us a little bit about what it’s like now, the muscles you’re kind of developing as a closer than maybe you weren’t flexing down on those as much, but now you’re kind of developing and bring them along.
[00:43:55] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:43:55] Yeah. So the first couple of weeks Vanessa’s like, Heather, why do you not have any calls on the calendar?
[00:44:02] And I was like, well, I’m qualifying them out before I’m getting them to a call. And she’s like, no, no, no, no, no. Just book them. We need them on the calendar. I was like, Oh, okay. So that was kind of like the first lesson I’ve learned so far. It was just go ahead and book them because I’m asking them all the questions and then I’m like, Oh, this I’m like qualifying them out myself.
[00:44:19] So the first lesson I learned, just get them on the calendar, get them into a call. But now the skills that I’m having to learn are how to run a proper discovery, call, how to run a proper demo. Vanessa is awesome. She just put me through Steve trainers, training bootcamp.
[00:44:35] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:44:35] So I just did that last week on Thursday and Friday.
[00:44:38] So that was super helpful because I hadn’t had any closing training at that point. It was all SDR training. So yeah, at this point, I know how to source the meetings. But how do I really dig deep and get to a point of having them on the hook to close it? And then organization, I have so many people now that are either running like trials for a week or two, or just knowing who to follow up with when, what stage they’re at in the process.
[00:45:06] I think that’s definitely new as an SDR. You have to be a certain level of organized, but as an ag, it’s a whole other level of organization. Or things are going to slip.
[00:45:14] Chris Corcoran: [00:45:14] So I have a question and yesterday we were preparing for today, we were talking about kind of your superpower and how you were as an SDR and a prospector.
[00:45:21] And you told us a little bit about how your, what some might call a LinkedIn whisperer. So if for our listeners, they’re going to want to know they, all, everyone knows what LinkedIn is, but what do you do? How do you use LinkedIn? How do you leverage it to really surface opportunities?
[00:45:34] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:45:34] Yeah. So this is something I get asked often when I’m like, LinkedIn is my primary strategy, right?
[00:45:41] I think the reason I’ve been so successful on LinkedIn is when I first started using it, it was for a few intelligence agencies where I could not find the phone numbers. And even if I found the phone numbers, there’s no way I’m getting through to these people. And if I did, they would hang up in my face, like.
[00:45:57] Why are you calling me on a cold call? So it forced me into finding another Avenue, which ended up being LinkedIn. What I found is that you’re able to see my profile. You’re able to see my face. You can see my experience. You can read my bio, you know who I am. Whereas if I’m just cold calling you, you have no idea who I am.
[00:46:17] Even if I tell you my name and I tell you the company I work for. I feel like there’s still this level of distrust. Right. But on LinkedIn, I think that kind of, yes, there’s going to be a level of distrust and some of the agencies I prospect into, they think I might be a Chinese spy from Missouri. I’ve had my social media like comb through, through some like certain people.
[00:46:39] They’re like, okay, you’re legit. You’re a real person, but it allows me to really connect with them on a level. To where they feel comfortable. They know I’m not, like I said, as fire or something else. And then I can just have a real conversation with them. It’s not so much gimmicky and salesy at that point, because I’m real time chatting with that person.
[00:47:00] Once they accept my connection. And there’s just something about that that has led to a really quick turnover. If I have the right person at the right agency and they’re even remotely interested in our product, it’s because of how specific our product is to what an investigator and analyst is doing.
[00:47:17] It’s kind of a no brainer that they would want to learn more. And then authenticate has done such a good job of providing resources, free resources, like on OSA, which is open source intelligence. Like booklets and articles and stuff. And a lot of the times I’ll try to provide that value as well, to let them know.
[00:47:35] I’m not just trying to sell you. Like we actually, we have a whole encompassing thing cause we also offer OSA Academy at authenticate. So we provide not only the tool, but then the training. And I really try to come at it from like an educational standpoint. I don’t know if that answers your question specifically.
[00:47:52] Cause I could get into like specifics, but that’s what I think
[00:47:55] Chris Corcoran: [00:47:55] It sounds like you’ve come at it from an educational awareness perspective as opposed to let me try to sell you something. Number one. And then number two, we’ll talk a little bit about your techniques and tactics on how you use LinkedIn. Do you InMail them or just very quickly for the listeners?
[00:48:05] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:48:05] Yeah, absolutely. So I use sales navigator to build lists. But then from there, I literally just send a person a connection. I don’t send a note in the connection. I’ve done AB testing notes in the connection, in my experience, they don’t really matter. Either people don’t read it or they read it and they’re like, Oh, screw this person.
[00:48:21] So I just don’t send it. They can see from my profile what I’m about and probably why I’m going to reach out. So as soon as that connection request is accepted, I would say it’s a time sensitive thing. Every day I’m coming through, who’s accepted my connection request and then I’m shooting them a message.
[00:48:37] My first message is literally, Hey, so-and-so, it’s a pleasure to connect with you. I hope you’re having a great day. Something like that. As soon as they respond, that’s when I know they’re active on LinkedIn. And then my second question for my territory specifically, is are you using social media for your investigations?
[00:48:53] Or I’m curious if you’re using social media for your investigations. For me, that question, I know 99% of the people I’m talking to are going to say yes. So that’s an automatic, just an easy thing to throw out there so I can start the conversation. And then as soon as they say, yes, I’m like, Hey, well, this is why I’m asking.
[00:49:09] Just wanting to see if you’d be interested in learning more about it. And my response rate is very high and that might just be because it’s law enforcement in my territory, but my response rate has always been very high with that strategy.
[00:49:21] Chris Corcoran: [00:49:21] I do have another question too. It’s about your focus and commitment to learning the technical side of the product or the solution, your SE training.
[00:49:28] What would you say to the sales person? Whether it be an SDR or an AE who says, who almost brags about how little they know about the technology. I see those folks. And how would you respond to that individual?
[00:49:39] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:49:39] I think you’re shooting yourself in the foot. Honestly. Why would you not want to know the most you can know about your product? For me, even, I’m trying to reach the point where, and I can run through a demo, but I’m trying to find common enough to where I don’t need my SE on the call, unless it’s really a serious technical person. I want to reach the point where I’m running my own demos. I don’t have to depend on anyone else.
[00:50:02] My schedule was very much mine and my business is like mine. I’m fully owning everything. I would assume there are some people where the technical aspect just really doesn’t register in their brain and that’s a different story, but I think you have to make every attempt you can to learn the ins and outs of your product and not just lean on your SE all the time.
[00:50:19] If you’re like authentic8 or SES, like spread, then already most places they are. So why would you not want to be more independent and just like, increase your knowledge to me? That’s just laziness, honestly.
[00:50:31] Marc Gonyea: [00:50:31] Love it. That’s good though. That’s where you are in your career right now, right? Or final thoughts, Chris and I would be remiss if we to ask this you’re in federal sales in cyber, right?
[00:50:41] Male dominated. You’re female. Talk about that because I know we’ll get asked by memoryBlue SDRs at work here. We get asked by people in the industry. My wife will ask me she’s in federal sales. So talk about that.
[00:50:52] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:50:52] Yeah. Obviously starting at memoryBlue, I don’t know about now, but then I was the only woman on my team. So I quickly started to realize that it was a male dominated industry between cyber and sales. And then you add the layer of federal as well. I feel like my mentality that I’ve had is always kind of carried me through, like, I’m still going to do the best that I can do. I would say the only things I really experienced are more subconscious, like biases on maybe this guy was picked for just an example.
[00:51:26] Maybe this guy was picked for a presentation over me, even though we have the same like stats, but because he is a male and I don’t even think the person maybe the higher up or whatever is realizing that that’s the case. And when I got to Authentic8, we work with a lot of veterans, which is awesome.
[00:51:43] And still a lot of males, but now we actually have quite a few women on our team. But when I started, there were only two of us in the federal office. Um, I don’t know that I ever felt the need to prove myself, like at a certain point, your numbers speak for themselves. But I think it’s when you have your numbers of them as this guy’s numbers, but he’s getting asked.
[00:52:04] Like back to the presentation example, maybe he’s getting asked to do other stuff. And then you kind of have to question at that point, is it because I’m a woman and he’s a man, or is there another skill that I’m lacking that I need to know of? And those are kind of hard things to uncover. And I think that’s a bigger conversation in general, but I would say just focus on skills, focus on your numbers.
[00:52:27] In sales, like your numbers speak for themselves. Honestly, once you reach that point, if your numbers are constantly hitting your target, I think whether you’re a male or female, like that’s going to give you something.
[00:52:39] Marc Gonyea: [00:52:39] Thank you. It’s a good take. Appreciate that. Well, I think that’s it.
[00:52:42] Chris Corcoran: [00:52:42] Lots of wisdom today, Heather.
[00:52:44] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:52:44] Thank you. Thanks again for having me, you guys.
[00:52:46] Marc Gonyea: [00:52:46] Well, we’re fortunate that you came. I mean your background, I think since you’ve left has been very interesting and thanks for getting so much detail with us, cause it means a lot to the people who are trying to get where you are.
[00:52:56] Heather Bodenhamer: [00:52:56] I appreciate it.
[00:52:57] Marc Gonyea: [00:52:57] Very good.
[00:52:58] Chris Corcoran: [00:52:58] Thanks Heather.