Tech Sales is for Hustlers Podcast

Episode 80: Trevor Shan – A Primal Instinct For Sales

Put in the reps and reap the rewards. Through hard work, persistence, and a dedication to continual learning, Trevor Shan stays logging enviable gains.

Now, Business Development Manager at Openprise and fitness entrepreneur Trevor says the key to being exceptional lies in finding ways to stay in the right state of mind. Whether pushing SDRs to reach their full potential or kicking off a new client relationship, you must carry yourself with confidence and position yourself as a trustworthy expert.

In this episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers, Trevor talks about the importance of an opening statement, tackling imposter syndrome, and the impact your personal life has on your career.

Guest-At-A-Glance

Name: Trevor Shan

What he does: Trevor is the Business Development Manager at Openprise.

Company: Openprise

Noteworthy: Besides his DM role at Openprise, Trevor also helps individuals worldwide get in their best physical shape and learn how to eat well. The course lasts for 12 weeks and participants need nothing but a kettlebell and a yoga mat.

Where to find Trevor: LinkedIn 

Key Insights

⚡ A good opening statement can disarm anybody. According to Trevor, SDRs can close more clients and book more meetings with an engaging opening statement, which goes beyond a traditional script. “A really good opening statement is the most important thing. If I can disarm the person at the beginning, I have them. And I almost got confident that I could get anybody as long as I could disarm them at the beginning.”

⚡ The ability to “fake it ’till you make it” is what makes you a good salesperson. Trevor believes that never-ending passion and enthusiasm for selling make a good salesperson, although not all days are great. “What makes a good salesperson is your ability to maintain your passionate state. Are you going to feel that every day? No. So, it’s your ability to ‘fake it ’till you make it.’ Unless you can do that, it’s going to be hard for you to book meetings on the phone because it’s all about that energy you carry and how you transmit it over the phone.”

⚡ Once you’re a leader of salespeople, other sales leaders trust you. Trevor strongly believes that leaders should express their expertise and confidence. Unless they do that, neither clients nor the sales team will trust them. “You’ve got to put on your sales hat, your expert hat, be confident, and not doubt yourself. It taught me how to really be confident as a leader. And now I’m transitioning from the sales benefits to the leadership stuff because it goes hand in hand. But while being a leader, you’re also being a salesperson.”

Episode Highlights

A Script Is Paralyzing

“Having a powerful, exclusive opening statement may not be good for every client. I have would say something very specific, which needed a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer. Like, ‘Do you want to continue this conversation or not?’ […] And that’s how I’ve designed the talk track at my current company to help my SDR team. It’s all about having a map of the conversation in your head. And that’s what I didn’t have. I had a script, but that’s not the same. A script is paralyzing because as soon as something goes off script, which will always happen, you don’t know what to do. And because we’re going off the script, you’re not in a flow state. You’re not ready to pick it up. You’re not quick on your feet. And then you don’t know where to go. So, the one thing I did have scripted was that opening statement.”

What You Do Outside of Work Impacts Your Success as a Salesperson

“I tell my SDRs, ‘You guys need to do that. If you don’t have a book by 3:00 p.m., I want you to pick up the phone and start dialing.’ Because, at that point, I have that weird confidence. It’s like, ‘Come on, answer [the phone].’ And if you’re calling people with that type of attitude and energy, you’re going to book so many meetings versus when you wake up, and you’re like, ‘Please don’t answer the phone.’

For me, it was learning how to do what I needed to do outside of work to make sure that I was feeling spectacular every morning. All of a sudden, I would read. Sometimes, I’ll be shouting in the car to warm up my vocals. Sometimes, I would sing the longest songs or do something to warm up and open up. […] What you do outside of work impacts this job, arguably, more than any other job. Why so many people don’t make it in this gate is because you need to have that all the time. But it becomes about who you are as a person and how you structure your lifestyle outside of work. All this stuff will make you show up a certain way.”

What I Loved About Being a DM Is Unpredictability

“I loved every part of being a DM. I think it’s the unpredictability of it. I got bored of being an SDR because I found a recipe that worked for me, and I was done by 3:00 p.m. every day. Obviously, I could do more and improve, but I was getting bored of it. […] But as a DM, I liked that things could happen. Somebody could quit, a client could leave, a client could come, someone needed to be hired, etc. It’s like having your hands in so many different pots. And I knew that doing all this stuff was so valuable for me.”

The Management Aspect Was the Most Challenging Part of Being a DM

“The biggest challenge was the managing aspect. It was managing people, leading people, holding them accountable, and being elevated in an environment where I was not the oldest guy. It was that awkwardness of, ‘Who are you to tell me what to do?’

I felt like it was imposter syndrome — ‘I don’t deserve to be here. Who am I to tell them what to do?’ So, during my first six months, I was trying to be a cool manager who was liked by everybody. I felt like I was so important to clients. I felt like I was good at it, but what I was lacking was the SDR side of it. I was holding them accountable, being the leader, maybe being the guy that they don’t like for a day or two or a week. But at the end of the day, you’re doing what needs to be done to get the job done, get the operation done, and get it done with the right people. And for all that to happen, you’ve got to be fully yourself in the beginning.”

I Care About My Clients’ Health and Shape More Than They Do

“I work online with individuals from around the world over the course of 12 weeks to get them in the best shape of their lives. And you don’t need to go to a gym or anything like that. You just need one kettlebell and one yoga mat. And over the course of 12 weeks, I take people through this journey of ramping up on kettlebell workouts, loosening up their body and their joints via yoga, learning how to eat the right way, etc. Most people want to have a lean, strong physique so that they feel healthy and well, and they are able to do things. They have no joint pain, and they feel confident with their body. And that’s what I want to help people with. And I have realized that you don’t need a lot of time to do that. You only need 30 or 45 minutes a day. You don’t need a lot of space either. […] I want them to get the results. I care more than they do.”

Transcript: 

[00:00:00] Trevor Shan: I’m not in it for the money, you know, I will give somebody their money back if they want, you know, like, I, I want them to get the results. I care more than they do. A lot of my clients even tell me that, they’re like, “You, dude, it’s, you know, working with you motivates me

[00:00:12] ’cause I realize you care more about my health than I do.” 

[00:00:15] I realized quickly because, so, I’m very passionate, I was, like, really into, like, yoga at this time, right? And, I was going 

[00:00:41] Trevor Shan: to yoga all 

[00:00:42] the time and wanted to, I was even working at the studio and whatnot. So, I found this awesome job where they were teaching, you know, it was a physical therapy clinic, but it wasn’t your average, like, you know, just doing this type of stuff, like, they were doing this thing,

[00:00:54] the word is, the phrase is escaping me right now, but it’s like, uh, prince, the philosophy that they kind of, a lot of therapy clinics use now to teach you how to breathe and move properly and always that way, so I was like, “Wow, this is my home,” you know, “I found the place.” So, I was working there, working with patients, but I realized like they, they were kind of understaffed

[00:01:13] Trevor Shan: so a lot of us, like, helper people who were supposed to be with the patients would be kind of running around like monkeys, doing all this admin stuff. Right? And, it’s probably ’cause now I understand it, probably you’re kind of trying to keep the costs as low as possible, you know? And so the, I would notice, like, the patients, they want to talk, you know, they like, and I want that stuff,

[00:01:31] I want to be able to spend time with this person, make them feel like they’re, they have some attention given to them, you know, yada, yada. And so they would have these, like, kind of email chains that would go out and they, like, blasted an email to all the employees, like, the founders, and they said, you know, “If you guys have any suggestions for the clinic, please feel free to respond,” or something.

[00:01:49] So, I just respond to like, “Hey, if there’s any way we can maybe structure the time a little bit differently so we could have a little bit more, like, one-on-one time with the patients instead of, like, having to jump to an admin thing, you know, mid, mid?” like, hey, someone’s talking to me and I’m like, “Oops, hold on.

[00:02:02] Sorry.” I would do that all the time because I had to, and then the founder, like, he ripped me a new one, he, like, responded to me, like, to the whole company, they didn’t just, like, reply to me, you know, reply all, like, basically calling me incompetent. He was like, “Oh, well, if you can’t.” Over an email? Over email, to the whole thing. So, I just basically responded,

[00:02:23] yeah, so I didn’t, I guess I didn’t get fired, I quit, I responded to that, I was like, you know, “I don’t want to be at a place like this.” But that kinda, like, hit me hard ’cause I was like, here I am thinking like, “These people are doing great things,” you know, I thought they were doing wonderful things and, but the, the way they’re running it and everything, it’s like, it’s almost, like, because they’re in, like, health, the health field or whatever, they don’t really have the knowledge of, like, truly how to run that business with culture and all that type of stuff,

[00:02:49] and it’s, but yeah, long story short, it was just like that, and also volunteering in the hospital, just seeing, I can’t maybe give specific examples, but just, like, the environment being in there, I felt, you know, and, like, what you had to do to get there and how the therapists were working, how the doctors were working, how they, it almost seemed like, I was like, “They’re just working a corporate job,”

[00:03:10] you know? I saw it, I was like, “They’re just working a corporate job, they just, you know, it’s a good corporate job, they’re making good money, it’s secure and all that,” but, yeah, you know, this isn’t what I thought. Yeah. 

[00:03:22] Marc Gonyea: That’s a great experience. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:03:25] Chris Corcoran: There’s one place we can go with that, but I want to go back to, what was it you said that before, I kind of went back to the, uh, your household growing up,

[00:03:32] you said you went to Santa Cruz and it was a more progressive place, tell us about that. 

[00:03:37] Trevor Shan: Yeah, it was, it was more just, it was just more of, like, a free-for-all, you know, so, like, I was used to, you know, honestly, I was used to, I had kind of like, a big ego in high school, you know, I was like, “Oh, I’m good looking guy,

[00:03:50] muscular and all that, like, I can get a lot of attention this way,” and then you go to a place like that and nobody cares, nobody cares. They care more about who you are, you know? So, it was a lot of, like, finding who I was in college, like, it was, college is the best experience in my life. Like, I remember, like, the last year I was crying, walking through my 

[00:04:08] campus, just like, “I can’t believe this is the last year I’m 

[00:04:10] here.”

[00:04:11] Oh my God. Sometimes I go back to my campus and I literally cry because I like, I feel all the stuff I went through when I was there, I was like, “Man, I changed so much,” you know? ‘Cause I went there, this kind of, you know, living in a bubble, thought I was all that and a bag of chips, you know, big ego and it just crushed my ego in a good way,

[00:04:34] you know? It killed my ego and it, it made me kind of develop myself as a person, as a human being to, you know, yeah, I think it was just a good, like, a good, a humbling experience. It’s 

[00:04:45] Marc Gonyea: great 

[00:04:46] ’cause we go back and forth on the podcast for anybody who regularly listens, Chris and I sometimes question the value of four-year traditional education,

[00:04:52] at least I do. Well, 

[00:04:54] Chris Corcoran: let’s just, I mean, I don’t think you learned what you’ve learned in a classroom. No. There you go. Right. So, it was not in the neuroscience department. No. 

[00:05:06] Trevor Shan: But that stuff was very important. Let’s go. I honestly think, like, I’ve always battled with this in my mind ’cause my dad is all about school, right?

[00:05:14] Even today, he’s like, “Go get your masters, go get something, you know, go get more and more and more.”

[00:05:19] I’m like, “I don’t think you need to, dad.” There’s other ways, but. 

[00:05:23] Chris Corcoran: You just finished a two-year residency in memoryBlue as a delivery 

[00:05:26] Marc Gonyea: man. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That’s how you gotta look at. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:05:31] Trevor Shan: Your dad hates me, probably. He’s starting to see it, he’s trying to be like, “Ah, you’re right.” But yeah, no, I think college is, it’s a, it’s a priceless experience, it’s priceless because, I tell people, this is what I used to tell people at

[00:05:43] my interviews when I was interviewing to be an SDR, 

[00:05:46] Marc Gonyea: like, “Why, why are you 

[00:05:47] Trevor Shan: here in neuroscience?” Well, I’ll tell you this, talking, sales, communication, being social, being with people, convincing people to do things, that’s all been my bread and butter since I was a child,” like, I’ve always been that guy, I’ve always been kind of,

[00:06:00] maybe my friends would disagree with me if they listened this, but I’ve always been a bit of a leader, you know, in the crowd, you know, I’ve always kinda been like, “Let’s do this, let’s do that.” “Oh, you don’t want to do this? I’m going to convince you,” you know? So, I was always that guy. And then going to college, like, I’ll start maybe my junior year of high school,

[00:06:15] Trevor Shan: I was never even the best student in high school. I just got by, I just wanted to get by and have as much fun as possible. Junior year I realized like, “I should get my stuff together.” So, I got like a 4.1 GPA, turned on the jets, went to college, you know, started doing the neuroscience thing, but that did not come naturally to me,

[00:06:33] like, I’m not the type of, I met so many people in college that would just amaze me how they would be out drinking so late the night before, they’d be doing so much stuff, I would see them not doing stuff, you know, studying or anything like that, and then they would just show up to the exam and ace it, like, you can just tell like, these guys, like, some of these kids are just made for this.

[00:06:53] And, I was not one of those kids, you know? Math, all that stuff always came very hard to me, so like, it was a battle, it was a struggle, like, I almost changed my major halfway through, but I didn’t because I was like, “No, you’re going to do this.” So, what I told people in interviews is, you know, “Yeah, I’m in neuroscience, but to be honest, I’m a, I’m a salesman at heart,

[00:07:12] and me going through near, neuroscience was actually so valuable, it will make me better at this because it taught me how to learn, how to focus, how to manage my time, how to meet deadlines, how to pass exams.” Like, this stuff, it’s impossible to go through unless you go through college, you know? And, like, it’s, it teach it, it humbles you,

[00:07:32] it teaches you how to balance your life ’cause there’s no structure, and I’m in that liberal kind of wasteland of, like, “Do whatever you want, you know, we’re in Santa Cruz.” Santa Cruz, every college experience is kind of like that. And, when I say liberal, conservative, I’m not talking about politics, I’m talking about like, yeah, I’m just talking about kind of the way you act, you know, like, no rigid, no rigidity, no structure, more of just, nobody cares when you come, when you go, if you’re in class, if you’re not, you gotta be on that,

[00:08:00] you know? 

[00:08:01] Marc Gonyea: Sure we’re making the case, right? 

[00:08:03] Trevor Shan: I’m sorry. I’m sorry about it, but 

[00:08:05] yeah. 

[00:08:06] Chris Corcoran: No, don’t be sorry about this. It’s true. There’s absolutely, absolutely. All right. So, when did you kinda realize you got, I, when did you have the not epiphany, because you were putting time in, when did you realize that you weren’t going to go in the healthcare, let’s just say that, but it was, what year of college was that?

[00:08:27] Trevor Shan: I graduated, and I still didn’t know, I graduated and I was basically at home and my dad is expecting me to take the MCAT, right? And, I’m kind of like, studying for it, but also putting it off, but also studying for it, and I’m doing, like, six to eight hours a day over the summer, after I graduated, studying, and then we went to Portugal, me and my family,

[00:08:47] and when I went to Port, I don’t know what it was about this trip, but it just like, it was almost like a rebirth for me, I kind of, yeah, I don’t know if I maybe grew a little bit more over there, like, my brain developed a little bit more over that trip or something, but something happened, you know, and I just, I, I knew, like, when I get back home, I need to grind.

[00:09:07] I need to grind, I’m craving the grind again, you know? Like, I’m craving that, I want to go work, I don’t know what it was, I can’t even articulate it that well, but it was just an inkling feeling. So, I got back from Portugal, you know, it felt so good, so rejuvenated, started applying to all these jobs and yeah, that’s kind of how I got into it.

[00:09:24] I started just looking at, so I was like, “How am I going to get into, I’m going to get into tech. I live in the Silicon Valley, I got to get into tech.” So, my thought was honestly, after looking through jobs and all that, I started to find sales, but I also found, you know, coding boot camps and things like that, so I was ready to go down that road,

[00:09:41] I was ready to, you know, quote-unquote, sell my soul and just put in all the time and money and hours and just learn how to code and just getting it, like, I was just going home and getting into tech. I didn’t necessarily know how, you know, lucrative or that even sales was that big of a thing in tech,

[00:09:57] like, I was just completely 

[00:09:59] Marc Gonyea: ignorant to it. 

[00:10:00] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. So, okay. So, you came out of Portugal, you’re like, “Okay, I’m going to, MCAT, not doing, I’m going to start working.” All right. And then how did, how did we happen? Well, hold on 

[00:10:10] Marc Gonyea: How’d you break it to your dad? Yeah. 

[00:10:13] Trevor Shan: Yeah. So, that’s a good question. So, my dad, like, every morning I’m walking down, he’s at the table and I’m looking at him in the 

[00:10:19] eyes and it’s just 

[00:10:21] dreadful every morning

[00:10:22] ’cause he’s, like I said, he’s what-have-you-done-for-me-today type of relationship, it’s a business relationship, it’s either, “How good are you doing in school?” Or now it’s “How much money you make?” And so I remember, I would tell my dad, I’d be like, “Dad, don’t worry, in a year from now I’m going to be making 

[00:10:35] six figures.”

[00:10:36] And, he’s like, “Pff, how? How, 

[00:10:39] Trevor?” I was like, “Just wait, just watch,” you know, ’cause I thought I’m going to do the coding thing, no matter what I’ll be getting technical six-figures. Long story short, I started find, finding sales jobs, you know, so then I started applying to all these sales jobs. I was like, “I can do this.

[00:10:51] I think I can do this,” you know, and I still didn’t even have a good idea of what it was. Yeah. But 

[00:10:55] I thought, 

[00:10:56] you know, “I could do this.” I had that kind of confidence. So, I started interviewing for a lot of other sales positions too, like, um, you know, at Quest Diagnostics so that’s where I thought I was going to be, so long story short

[00:11:08] I did all these interviews, quest kind of went through the final round, did a presentation, all this stuff, they really liked me, it was kinda medical too so it’s like best of both worlds. Yeah. And again, I’m really ignorant about all this stuff, I was completely ignorant about tech sales and the opportunity and, like, what it was like to work for a company,

[00:11:25] have the equity in a company, all that type of stuff, I just wasn’t thinking about that. And then, I don’t know, I guess I applied to memoryBlue on LinkedIn and then out of nowhere I got a call, I answer, it’s a recruiter, 

[00:11:37] Marc Gonyea: it was Bailey from LinkedIn. Bailey. Yes. Bailey. Yeah. 

[00:11:41] Chris Corcoran: Wheels. 

[00:11:42] Marc Gonyea: We were still. Yeah. 

[00:11:45] Trevor Shan: Yeah. So, so she, she gave me a call and immediately I felt like I was talking to somebody

[00:11:50] cool, you know, somebody down to earth. Like, I’d been going through so many of these screening calls and whatnot, so I was like, “This person has a different energy to them. It’s a good energy,” you know? So, I said, “Okay, yeah, I’ll check this out for sure.” And then I come here, do you want me to get into all of this?

[00:12:05] Chris Corcoran: Yes. Absolutely. Your story is very interesting so we want to hear an interesting memoryBlue part 

[00:12:10] too. 

[00:12:10] Trevor Shan: Yeah. Actually, as a DM, I can tell you my story is, like, really unorthodox, is we’d never, I’ve never hired somebody in, like, two days, like, how this happend so I came here on a Thursday, Dan Yorkey interviews me. Daniel Yorkey. Yeah, Daniel Yorkey. 

[00:12:25] And so I come in here, I’m sitting down and Dan pulls me in and immediately I really liked Dan, I’m sure you guys hear this all the time, the DM sold me, you know, immediately, 

[00:12:35] Marc Gonyea: I was just like. Charisma. He 

[00:12:38] magnetizes 

[00:12:39] things. Yeah. 

[00:12:40] Trevor Shan: He’s just a good guy, you know, and I was just like, I like him, you know, he’s a, he’s a really good person,

[00:12:45] like, felt like I could connect with him, and then he showed me around the office and that was a good move on him, he was selling me hard, he did a good job. ‘Cause I, I mean, I see all these people, you know, all these people where everybody looks happy, everybody’s, like, joking around, laughing around, but also they have their headsets on,

[00:13:02] it just looked like a really good environment, you know? Good energy, good environment, that Joe Reeves, you know, was in there. Joe went to UC Santa Cruz too so we instantly connected and, and then I leave and then they call me and say, “Can you come back tomorrow?” basically, I said, “Yeah, I can.” Did the role, study for the role-play over the overnight,

[00:13:19] I don’t even know how I did this, like, I really don’t know, I can’t believe I didn’t bomb that, maybe I did, I know, but I remember I closed the job. So, I, I studied, I studied hard though, like, I looked at all the material, I crafted the opening statement, I even knew the email objection from the notes, like, I had all of that.

[00:13:37] So, I still, I did my homework and I came in, did the role play with Joe, that’s the first thing he said, he’s like, “You did your 

[00:13:42] Marc Gonyea: homework?” I was like, “Yeah.” I can tell it’s just what Joe says. 

[00:13:45] Trevor Shan: It’s definitely what Joe says. Yeah. So, we’d go through a whole thing, you know, the whole interview and that at the end of it, he gives me the verbal and I said, “Let’s do it.”

[00:13:53] Wow. And, I was so excited, just this place, just, it gave me that, you know, I came here when they broke down the cost structure and all that, I looked at Joe, I’m pretty sure, I said, like, “I don’t care. I don’t care, you know, I’m here to learn. I’m here to grow. I’m not only here to learn, I’m here to work, like, I want, I want to be, like, put in the ring,

[00:14:14] I want my face in the dirt, you know, I want, like, all that experience, I want to be in bootcamp right now.” That’s what I was signing up for. ‘Cause I was, again, I was ready to go to a coding bootcamp, I was like, “This is way better. This is a sales bootcamp that’s going to pay me. Sign me up. Let’s do it.” So, and then I showed up the next Monday and the rest is history.

[00:14:33] Marc Gonyea: So, what was it like rolling into that job, unless it’s, this is, so you told your parents you were going into 

[00:14:41] sales? Yeah. 

[00:14:42] Trevor Shan: Right? Yeah. So, at that point, you know, I was like, “Just wait, dad,” you know, kind of attitude, like, “Okay, I’m starting with this new job, but just wait,” you know, so they saw like, “Okay, he’s got a job, that’s good. Whatever,” you know, they thought, I dunno what they thought I was doing, but I think they thought I was like, 

[00:14:57] Marc Gonyea: just doing something what’s dumb, you know, like. “He’s going through a phase.”

[00:15:01] Trevor Shan: Yeah, exactly, exactly, it’s like, “He’s going to do this for, like, some months and then get back on studying the MCAT.” 

[00:15:09] Um, and 

[00:15:10] I was like, “No, it’s not gonna happen.” So, I started, you know, coming to memoryBlue and quickly was humbled, you know. I came in here pretty, maybe overconfident, you know, thinking like, “Oh,” like, ’cause you know, you talked to some people

[00:15:25] outside of work, you know, even though I’m at work, but we’re not, like, in the activity of maybe cold-calling or something, but we’re just talking, and I would think like, “Um, I’m more smooth than this guy,” 

[00:15:34] you know, “I can, I can over-communicate 

[00:15:36] this guy, like, how could, if he could do that, I can do this.” And then as soon as you get on the phone, you’re like, “Oh,” you know, and you just fall on your face.

[00:15:43] You know, at least I 

[00:15:43] Marc Gonyea: did. I did. Everyone does. Everyone does. 

[00:15:47] Very few, maybe every now and then there’s 

[00:15:49] somebody 

[00:15:49] who’s a. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:15:51] Who are you working with? Who was part of the SDR 

[00:15:54] crew when you were here? Oh 

[00:15:55] Trevor Shan: man, so we got Victor Saucedo. He’s starting with me.

[00:16:01] Saucedo. Who else, man? So many people, I’m trying to get, think of strictly alumni. 

[00:16:06] Marc Gonyea: That’s alright. It doesn’t have to be alumni, 

[00:16:08] it 

[00:16:08] can be anybody.

[00:16:08] Trevor Shan: Yeah, no, I mean a whole group of good people, I mean, you know, Dan Yorkey, Brian Ball.

[00:16:17] 

[00:16:17] Trevor Shan: Ah, man, Morgan, you know, Morgan Blehm, obviously Nick Jones.

[00:16:21] You guys are testing my memory here, Josh Sato. 

[00:16:26] Marc Gonyea: That’s right. There you 

[00:16:27] go. 

[00:16:28] Trevor Shan: You got some people. So many people, I got so many people, you know? On Yorkey’s team? Oh no, yeah, on Yorkey’s team. No, were you on Yorkey’s team? Yeah, I was on Yorkey’s team, yeah. So I was on Yorkey’s team, on a client called Pulse Q&A, there were, you know, I love them, they’re a great company, great people

[00:16:45] and they’re, what they’re doing is actually really cool, but they were almost working out of a closet at that time, you know, just like 10, 12 employees. They didn’t even know who their ICP, they didn’t know who their target market was, what their messaging was, nothing, they didn’t know anything, and so. That’s cool though.

[00:17:01] That is so cool, you know, like, back then, I was just like so lost and I know now I know Dan was lost too.

[00:17:07] He fakes it. Exactly. As a DM, you have to do that because what is he going to do? He’s going to show me, like, “Uh, Trevor, I don’t know what I’m doing either. Have fun.” You know, he was good though at, like, being that, like, rock and like, “What do you mean? You got to do this.” And, I’m like, “Oh, okay. I guess it’s a no-brainer then.”

[00:17:25] But in reality he’s like, yeah, in reality, he was confused, we were all confused, even the CEO was confused, they didn’t know what the, what to say. So, it was one whole month, and I’m, I’m very competitive, I, like, I truly do hate losing, I can’t stand it, so, like, every huddle we would show up and I’m giving zero, zero, watching everybody get clap for, zero, zero,

[00:17:49] so I had this, I was, I didn’t even want to make friends with people because I didn’t feel like I deserved it yet. I didn’t want to socialize and, like, go out with them or anything because I didn’t feel like I deserved it. And, I did, I, I think I went out with them, like, a couple of weeks into the job and I was kind of depressed while I was hanging out with them,

[00:18:04] they’re like, “What’s wrong?” “I’m not doing good at memoryBlue. I’m going to get fired, you know?” They’re like, “What are you talking about? You’re not going to get fired,” like, blah, blah, blah. So, I would show up here at 5:00 AM to this office, show up at 5:00 AM and leave at 5:00 PM for, like, that first month, just trying to figure it out, making dials, trying things out, nothing working, you know, just totally lost,

[00:18:24] and I remember everybody, more, a lot of the more senior SDRs who walk by me and be like, “Relax, you know, you’re, you know, you’re going to get it.” And, I’d be like, “I don’t think I am,” you know. And then come November, I think we switched some messaging or something like, something clicked with the CEO, you know, he started kind of more educating us on the product and what to say,

[00:18:45] so I started to really, and I started to understand what I was talking about. 

[00:18:49] Marc Gonyea: Not going to 

[00:18:50] be, it’s not going to just happen the first 

[00:18:52] two weeks. Yeah. 

[00:18:55] Trevor Shan: And then that month, I’m pretty sure that month I was number one in the office in California, and was that for, like, the next 

[00:19:01] Marc Gonyea: six months. Wow. Yeah. With the same client? 

[00:19:04] Trevor Shan: With this,

[00:19:05] yeah, so I was worth Pulse Q&A for, I think, four to five months, and then they offered to hire me out. So, that’s a whole nother thing, so, so I’ll tell that real quick. No, tell it. Yeah, so this is kind of a hire-out fork in the road, right? So, yeah, one day randomly the CEO. 

[00:19:22] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. What did you get good at? What was your, what was your, what was your signature move when you were, you know, an SDR when it was 

[00:19:28] Marc Gonyea: just starting to click.

[00:19:29] Trevor Shan: Cold calling, number one, I mean, like, yeah, so more specifically, I’d say just having a really good opening statement I realized was the most important thing, like, if I could disarm the person at the beginning, I had them. And, I, I almost got so confident that I could get anybody as long as I could get them disarmed at the beginning.

[00:19:49] You’re not going to disarm everybody. Right. You know, so, {yeah} that’s the thing too is you have, if you have a really powerful, exclusive opening statement, maybe this isn’t good for every client, of course, but, like, for my client, I forget what exactly what I said, but I would say something very specific and it was almost, like, a yes-or-no answer,

[00:20:04] like, “Do you want to continue this conversation or not?” And so the people who wouldn’t, done, the people who would, I would book them every time. So, I think that’s what I got, I just kind, kinda made it into a science in my mind, you know, like, like, a logic tree is, like, what works, what doesn’t work until you finally get what works and that’s how I’ve designed my talk track at my current company to help my SDRs. For your team?

[00:20:25] Yeah. It’s like, ’cause you, that’s what it’s all about, it’s having a map of the conversation in your head, and that’s what I didn’t have, you know, I had a script, but that’s not the same, a script is actually paralyzing, you know? Because as soon as something goes off-script, which will always happen, you’re done, you know, you don’t know what to do,

[00:20:41] and then, and because we’re going off the script, you’re not actually in a flow state so, like, you’re not ready to pick it up, you know? So, you’re not quick on your feet, so then it becomes that, you know, and then you don’t know where to go. So, I think, like, the one thing I did have scripted was that opening statement

[00:20:55] and then after that it was just a, “Where am I going to go from here now?” Yep. And then once I got that down and it was like reps 

[00:21:01] and reps, it was, 

[00:21:02] you know, I get, like, I remember I went on, I would want one book a day, one meeting a day, or I didn’t feel accomplished, like, at 3:00 PM if I didn’t 

[00:21:10] have 

[00:21:10] Marc Gonyea: a meeting. I remember you telling me that when I came to 

[00:21:12] visit, “This guy’s pretty good. Mr.

[00:21:15] Mr. 

[00:21:15] science 

[00:21:15] Trevor Shan: guy.” Yeah. I remember, like, if I didn’t have a meeting at, like, 3:00 PM, I would just pick up my cell phone, start 

[00:21:20] going down my list on Excel and just handout people, yeah, 

[00:21:25] until I finally got somebody in. And, it was funny, I tell my SDRs this still, I’m like, “You guys need to do that. If you don’t have a book by 3:00 PM, I want you to pick up the phone, just start dialing, you know, like pick up the cell phone, start dialing,”

[00:21:38] because at that point I have almost this, like, it’s like a weird confidence, it’s like a, “Come on, come on, answer, answer, answer,” and I know, like, once they answer it’s like, “Yes.” And, if you, if you’re calling people with that type of attitude, attitude and energy, you’re going to book so many meetings versus the, ’cause I’ve been there too,

[00:21:55] there’s some mornings you wake up or some days you go at it and you’re like, “Please don’t answer the phone. Please don’t answer the phone. I just want to get through my dials today,” you know, but it’s like, no, you and you, what is sales, and you kind of tease me about this too, but, like, a Jordan Belfort thing, “State maintenance over Wednesday training,”

[00:22:11] remember, do you go to that? What is it? Go ahead. Yeah. So, it’s like, what makes a good salesperson is your ability to maintain your state and what’s the best state to be in? In a super-enthusiastic, high-energy, you know, passionate state, that’s the state. And, are you going to feel that every day? No, you know, so it’s your ability to fake it till you make it, you know, and, like, it, unless you can do that, you’re not gonna, it’s going to be really hard for you to book meetings on the phone, because it’s 

[00:22:37] all about that.

[00:22:38] It’s all about 

[00:22:39] that energy you carry and that you transmit over the phone. Of course, maybe you will, yeah, some people really need the product or whatever, but you know, it’s going to be really tough to disarm for people because it’s all subconscious thing, it’s all like a, “Does this guy really, is this guy a credible person?

[00:22:54] Does he mean business?” is kind of what people are, like, subconsciously 

[00:22:56] judging 

[00:22:57] you on the first, like, 30 seconds to 60 seconds, right? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So, I’d say, like, that for me was learning how to be that, learning how to do what I needed to do outside of work to make sure that I was feeling spectacular every morning, you know, learning what I needed to do in the mornings,

[00:23:14] like, like, every, like, all of a sudden I would read, drive in here, sometimes I’ll be shouting in the car to, like, warm up my vocals, sometimes I would sing the longest songs, do something, just something to warm myself up, get myself open, and by the time I walk in here, you know, I got the blood flowing, everything going, you know, maybe I hit a workout in the morning, whatever it was like, you know, it’s all about kind of fighting, especially for this job,

[00:23:38] it’s not, we’re not like software engineers, you know, we’re not, we’re not doing some more sort of, I don’t know, if, like, more hands-on trade, it’s very, like, abstract, and it’s very like, you know, like, what you do outside of work impacts this job arguably more than almost any other job, because you can tell immediately, you know, like, you tell you, you bring one of your DMs in your room and they’re not on the volume,

[00:24:02] like, “Hey man, what’s going on?” you know? Like, you can tell immediately if the guy’s on the board or not, and that’s the, that’s the, why so many people maybe don’t make it in this, like, game is because you need to have that all the time, and that comes from not only just faking it till you make it, but fake it till you make it will take you so far

[00:24:19] but it also just becomes then about, like, you know, who are you as a person, how do you structure your lifestyle outside of work, all this stuff is stuff will make you show up a certain 

[00:24:27] Marc Gonyea: way. Correct. It’s almost like a performance art. 

[00:24:30] Trevor Shan: Yes. It’s like a sport. Yes, exactly. Yeah. It is a sport. 

[00:24:34] Chris Corcoran: Theatrical performance. 

[00:24:35] Yeah, yeah. In the beauty, you know what the beauty of it is too?

[00:24:40] Marc Gonyea: And, we’ll get into the DM role ’cause we’re almost there, we made that decision in a fork in the road, but just to jump ahead real quick, the beauty of the industry and the profession, the profession, well as an, an IC was contributor as an SDR or a sales person or manager to as a manager too is, like, the interaction with people,

[00:25:00] you learn a lot about people, about yourself when you’re on the phones with the prospects or emailing them, but talking to them, when you’re talking to your client reps, right, you’re dealing with the decision-makers at the clients, and then you get into a DM role, you’re managing SDRs, you’re interviewing people,

[00:25:18] you’re, like, dealing with, SDRs are doing great, a big undervalued, undressed, underrated part of this job is seeing people being able to know real quick, “This person’s off a little bit,” because, you know, you’re dealing with hundreds of people, personalities, moods, type situations versus other jobs, you don’t really have that many looks, you might or might not often the marketing or finance engineering,

[00:25:43] maybe not as much so you can deal with people but that’s a skill to be able to see it, sense it and then, like, try and work on it with someone, right? But everything else you said, I completely agree with too. It is kind of a performance art, so yeah. All right. All right. So, going back, thank you for sharing that with us, you may or may not

[00:26:02] know this problem, I’ll put you on the spot real quick. When you were, when you were the top dog, who was, like, who else, who’s the best person in the office besides you, you remember? 

[00:26:11] People were cycling in and out, but I know Brandon Gip, he was always really good. Austin Kroll was always really good. Sonny Fian was always really good.

[00:26:24] Chris Corcoran: Important. Nick Jones 

[00:26:25] Trevor Shan: was 

[00:26:25] good. 

[00:26:25] Nick Jones was good. He was. We had, we had what was called, the little back corner back there, we called it “the book club” ’cause we were, whenever we got a meeting, we’d be like, “Hey.” Yes. And, we do a little thing. 

[00:26:37] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. You had a little in town celebration. 

[00:26:40] Trevor Shan: Oh, John Le, of course. John. Those guys were good. 

[00:26:44] Marc Gonyea: It was good. Victor Saucedo. Victor. He was always good. You just spit out a bunch 

[00:26:50] Chris Corcoran: of names.

[00:26:51] Yeah. You remember. Yeah. So, we got to take you back to you looking at the deleted board. 

[00:26:55] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:26:56] Trevor Shan: So, 

[00:26:56] even people from other offices, yeah. 

[00:26:58] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, absolutely. So, the client wants to bring you on board or they were sort of talking about it, so just talk about fork in the road. 

[00:27:05] Trevor Shan: Oh, the fork in 

[00:27:05] the road. 

[00:27:06] Yeah. So, yeah, the CEO calls me out of the blue, and he’s like, “Hey, do you want a job?

[00:27:10] Like, you might work for us.” And, I was like, “Potentially, yeah,” you know, and then he kind of told me like, “Yeah, you’d need to move to San Francisco,” all this stuff, I was like, “Ah,” you know, I just didn’t, the logistics didn’t seem great, I didn’t, like, the idea of giving up my house I’m living with my parents, not paying rent, and then going and paying, like, the highest rent maybe in the country

[00:27:28] and not getting paid a spectacular amount, I don’t know, it just, it, it, you know, again, they were figuring a lot of stuff out, so it was kinda like, has it, like, I don’t, I didn’t know the security, all that type of stuff, and then Dan pulls me into her room, I don’t know how long after, I 

[00:27:43] Marc Gonyea: think it was maybe a day or two hours. It was probably as quick as your 

[00:27:45] interview process.

[00:27:48] It was probably 

[00:27:48] Trevor Shan: pretty quick. Yeah. I don’t remember. It could have been, like, honestly, the next day or the next week, I can’t remember, but he was in here sitting where you are, and he calls me and he was like, “Hey, if you don’t decide to go to Pulse, you know, you, I want you to, like, take over me for me to be the manager, if that’s 

[00:28:04] what you’re open to.”

[00:28:05] And, I said, you know, “That’s awesome.” Yeah, no, that was never anything that I’ve wanted to do, never thought about it, and it was funny ’cause when Dan was interviewing me and he was going through the growth paths, I, he asked me what I’d be most interested, I’d probably say, “Account executive,” and I think he was like, “Well, I see you actually being a manager,”

[00:28:21] and I remember nodding and smiling and thinking in my head like, “Nah. No way. No way.”

[00:28:28] But yeah, he called me in here, he told me that so I said, “Okay, there’s something,” but I wasn’t sure yet, you know, and then, and he said, “Go talk to Joe.” And, I, I didn’t even talk to Joe, you know, because I was still not sure, I was, like, thinking about this for offer thing and then, and then, I think, a day or two later Joe’s, Joe comes up and he’s like, “Hey, you want to chat?”

[00:28:47] Trevor Shan: Kind of like, “What are you doing?”

[00:28:53] Chris Corcoran: Did your homework.

[00:28:57] Trevor Shan: So, he’s, you know, Joe is probably like, “What’s this kid doing? Does he want this or not?” Rightfully so, rightfully so the guy needs a DM and he’s like waiting for this guy, so I walk in there, you know, we talk about it and long story short, I ended up choosing the DM road, you know? And, I, I still didn’t even really know what I was getting into,

[00:29:17] it was not until, like, later on, in, in 

[00:29:20] that role that I realized like, “Wow,” how amazing of 

[00:29:24] a job this is, this is like, I had no idea that this was like this, you know, it was, like, the skills that I was learning, the 

[00:29:33] things that I was doing and 

[00:29:34] the experience I was getting in, like, the job itself, like, being at work was, like, it would just fly by, you know, we feel like, “Oh my God, it’s already 5:00 PM,”

[00:29:43] Trevor Shan: you know, that type of thing, um, and that’s, I just loved it, I loved every part of being a DM. Yeah. 

[00:29:49] Marc Gonyea: So, w, what, what made it an amazing role? 

[00:29:53] Trevor Shan: Well, I think it’s the unpredictability of it, you know, I’m, I’m like that, I guess if you give me something that’s too predictable, even being, I got bored of being an SDR, you know, because I found the recipe that worked for me and I was like, you know, essentially done by 3:00 PM every day, you know?

[00:30:08] And, I’m just like, “Okay, obviously I could do more and improve,” blah, blah, but, you know, I was kind of getting bored of it, and, of course I probably could have improved, maybe you could have thrown me on a harder client or yada, yada, I’m not saying all that in a bag of chips, but in my situation, I was kind of like, you know, “Alright, what’s next?”

[00:30:23] you know? Um, but with DM, I just liked that, you know, things could happen, you know, somebody could quit, you know, a client could leave, a client could come, you know, someone needed to be hired, you know, like you haven’t gotten an interview today, you got three interviews today, you got no interviews today, but, you know, you had a kickoff last week and he hasn’t booked any meetings yet.

[00:30:43] You know? Like, so you’re, like, your hand’s in so many different pots, and I, I just knew, like, that me doing all this stuff, I’m like, “This is so valuable for me,” you know, like, “Maybe I suck at it right now, I’m not so good, but like, just me doing this and getting better and better is like, I can only imagine what this is going to do for me, like, 

[00:31:00] Marc Gonyea: moving forward,” you know?

[00:31:02] Yeah. So, what was, what was more challenging for you, interfacing with the clients or kind of leading and developing and holding the SDRs accountable? 

[00:31:12] Trevor Shan: Funny enough, I, I went into the role, you know, Dan, I pulled Dan aside before he left, I’m like, asked him like, “How do you talk to the clients, man?” I was so scared about that. That was my biggest fear as a client,

[00:32:21] so I was like, didn’t even think about the SDRs. And, the, that was the biggest challenge, was the managing aspect, it was the managing of people, leading of people to holding them accountable, to being, especially being elevated in a, in an environment where I was not the oldest guy there, you know, there had been people there who had been there way before me

[00:32:39] so it was kind of like, that awkwardness of, like, “Who are you to tell me what to do?” you know? Um, and then it’s also like, all these people are, have now become my really good friends, so how do I dance on this fine line, you know? So, so yeah, Dan left and so it was kind of like, I felt like it was almost, like, a little bit of imposter syndrome,

[00:33:00] Trevor Shan: you know, like “I don’t deserve to be here. Who am I to tell them what to do? These are my friends also. I can’t, like, they, I want them to like me,” you know? So, you know, I’d say my first six months, I’m trying to be, like, the cool manager and liked by everybody, you know, it doesn’t step on anybody’s toes, um, and, like, I pride myself on being a good salesman and so

[00:33:19] I was, I felt like I was so important to clients, you know, client weekly calls and stuff I felt like I was good at, but what I w, what I didn’t realize I was lacking on was, like, that the SDR side of it, you know, managing the SDRs, holding them accountable, being the leader, being maybe the guy that they don’t like, for a day or two or a week, but at the end of the day, like, you’re doing what needs to be done, to get the job done and get the operation done and get it done with the right people too, you know, and for that all to happen

[00:33:44] you’ve got to be fully 

[00:33:46] Marc Gonyea: yourself in the beginning. It sounds like he’s talking about his mom and his dad, right? Yeah. 

[00:33:52] Chris Corcoran: This was the way your parents were raising you and you take that and you apply that to how it goes. That’s exactly it. Right? Your dad at the breakfast table in the morning is, “Trevor, you showed up to your one-on-one.”

[00:34:03] Yeah, yeah. “How many, how many did you get for me today?” 

[00:34:07] Marc Gonyea: But you got to worry about them as people 

[00:34:09] Trevor Shan: too. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, exactly. Both. And, that’s like, it’s funny you say that because we had not, not so good at the last two or three weeks on my team where I’m at 

[00:34:18] right now, at Openprise 

[00:34:20] and I think at the beginning of this week, I think it was Monday,

[00:34:22] Trevor Shan: I pulled my SDRs on the side and I said, “You know, guys,” ’cause this is what I do with myself as a manager ’cause, “Am I perfect? Can I still work on stuff? Obviously. Yeah.” Of course. We all can. So, what I’m thinking of, like, “Why did we have such a bad few weeks?” you know, “Who, who do I need to be more on top of, who do I need, what do I need to do more,

[00:34:37] what do I need to give more to the team?” And, I realized like, I, I contemplate these things and what that takes is being honest with yourself. If you’re not honest with yourself, you’re never going to get to the root cause of your problems and why things aren’t working, and that’s what I told my SDRs,

[00:34:50] I was like, “You know, individually, you guys have to look at, you know, I know you guys are hitting your KPIs and everything, but I don’t want you to just hit your KPIs and your KPIs. You’ve got to look at each individual channel of outreach and be like, “Am I really putting my all into this? Like when I, when I dial, am I really wanting somebody to pick up the phone?

[00:35:07] Do I have that, that kind of energy that I was describing earlier? When I’m making a video for outreach, am I looking polished, am I looking sharp, do I have the energy? Am I maybe going out of my way to be creative?” Are you putting your all into it? And, if you’re not, you have to be honest with yourself where you’re not,” you know? And, that’s what it takes

[00:35:24] and when you do then, it actually hit them all a lot. They all individually kind of slacked me or maybe we talked in passing, they’re like, “I haven’t been honest with myself about this,” and I didn’t ask them to tell me that, they just came to me and said, “You know, I hadn’t been honest with myself about this.

[00:35:38] You’re right.” And, I was like, “I love, I love that you guys actually, like, absorbed that,” 

[00:35:42] Marc Gonyea: you know, it’s beautiful. Yeah, definitely. But yeah. 

[00:35:47] Chris Corcoran: So, the DM role, so let’s, let’s talk about that a little bit more because you got, so right now at memoryBlue there’s like fifty DMs. It’s crazy. It’s crazy, right? And, how many do we have here?

[00:35:58] Marc Gonyea: Eight. Yeah, Joe’s got eight DMs 

[00:36:00] now, right? Right now, so happy for him. Yeah, and it’s, we appreciate you laying the foundation, right? So, let’s talk a little bit more about that 

[00:36:09] job. 

[00:36:10] Yeah. Um, in terms of what it’s kind of the 

[00:36:14] benefits of 

[00:36:14] Trevor Shan: it. Yeah, no, it’s, uh, where to start, I mean, let’s just start with even just sales, right?

[00:36:22] Like, people think the first thing that you think, like, I’ve talked to a lot of SDRs who wanted to be DMs, and the first 

[00:36:27] thing I got to knock out of their mind is that you can’t be an AE or you can’t get into sales after this. 

[00:36:31] Right. Yes. You know? That’s what I thought too for some reason, you think that once you go down a certain path, all the other paths close, but I quickly realized that that, that’s the opposite of the case.

[00:36:43] Right. All of these doors open, you know, because once you’re, once you’re a leader of salespeople, you know, other leaders of salespeople trust you. Yeah. “This guy gets it,” you know, like. Yeah, that’s a great point. Yeah. So, it just opens all these doors and, and so, like, in the sales, even just business acumen in sales skills, I learned a lot just interacting with clients, kickoff meetings, you know, having to be sharp, having to know answers, not looking,

[00:37:08] you know, you, you’ve got to present yourself as an expert, you know, or these people are going to be like, “What did I sign up for?” you know, “Who’s, who’s running my campaign? Who’s this?” you know, like, you’ve got to, like, be on the ball, you’ve got to know what memoryBlue’s all about, you got to, you got to almost pretend like you know about their product instantly,

[00:37:24] even though of course you can’t, you know? You’re going through a kickoff, they’re explaining you the product, you’re like, “Yeah, get it. Understand.” You’re like, “I’m going to study this for a couple hours.” But, um, it’s all about that, like, you, you really learn how to present yourself as an expert when maybe you’re not,

[00:37:41] and you learn how to, like, be even quicker on your feet in that way because if you, if you dropped the ball on any, it’s not as simple as dropping the ball on a cold call, somebody hangs up on you, you know, you drop the ball with the client, now they’re doubting you, now that seed is planted in their mind

[00:37:55] and then your next weekly call is going to be so tough. Right. ‘Cause they got that seed in their mind that, you know, “I don’t know if this guy knows what he’s doing” and then maybe they’re going to go to Joe and be like, “I don’t know if Trevor knows that he’s doing. This never happend before.” 

[00:38:10] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:38:10] Trevor Shan: So, like almost. 

[00:38:12] Marc Gonyea: It happens. Yeah. Right? 

[00:38:14] Trevor Shan: So, on the sales side, like, it develops so many of my sales skills, like, how to have business acumen, you know, speaking with point of contacts that are chief revenue officers, chief marketing officers, directors of marketing, directors of sales, high-level AEs, you know, people that, like, know BS people, you know, people that can just see right through you if you don’t know what you’re talking about

[00:38:34] and somehow I was able to stand, you know what I mean? Like, and I think that a lot of the DMs are able to do that and it’s a skill that you pick up, that’s very unique as a DM, is, like, being able to become that expert, I mean, “Look, man, I’ve been in this field for a year,” and then, like, some of these, you know, chief revenue officers and marketing officers are asking you for advice sometimes

[00:38:54] and you got to put on your sales hat, your expert hat, not doubt yourself, be confident, and most of the time what you say works. Yeah. Yeah. But, it’s, it’s a, it taught me how to really be confident as a leader, and now, like, a sale, like, now I’m transitioning from the sales benefits to a more, like, the leadership stuff

[00:39:12] ’cause it goes hand-in-hand, honestly. But being a leader you’re also being a salesman, you know, every day I’m selling to my team that I’m on top of it, “You guys better be on top of it,” you know, I know what we’re doing here, we’re going to do, but, you know, it’s a little subliminal sell, you know, that you, you present as a leader or else people won’t follow you,

[00:39:29] you know, if you don’t have anything to sell as a leader, who’s going to follow you? So, I didn’t have that going in as a DM of that, you know, I’m, like I told you guys earlier, I was kind of like a natural leader at some, some moments in friend groups and stuff like that, I had no problem taking initiative, being that guy to do something first or whatever, but in, like, a professional setting or even a school setting, never been, like, that lead, like, never ran for, you know, office in high school or anything, anything like that,

[00:39:54] you know? So, this was all very new to me, you know? So, I, first six months I’d say I was focusing more on the clients and not on the SDRs and, you know, watching, maybe, the office not be where it needs to be, and the culture not where it needs to be, me not helping with that and things like that, and I think after, you know, certain people moved on and, like, I grew into the role and, you know, we started to hire good, like, really good people and everything like that,

[00:40:20] like, people that, like, I hired, you know, like, like, you start to kind of build your teams. 

[00:40:24] Marc Gonyea: Those are very different right there. Very 

[00:40:26] different. So, when you’re interviewing them and so they’re coming 

[00:40:28] to work for you, right? 

[00:40:29] Trevor Shan: Exactly. Yeah. Because those people, like, when you hire people, the good people, they, they really are grateful for the whole opportunity and they show up for you, you know, like, 

[00:40:38] Alex Rodriguez, like, he was, he was. He’s your 

[00:40:41] guy? He’s my guy. Podcast,

[00:40:44] he’s the first AE we did a podcast with. Oh 

[00:40:46] yeah, he’s, he’s my guy, you know, he’s, he’s one of those guys that walked in here and I saw in his eyes what I had in my eyes, you know, that I’m not here to mess around, right? Like, I’m here to work. I knew him, I didn’t even have to ask that guy questions, I did, of course,

[00:40:58] but I was just like, “Yeah, you are going to work.” And, I told Joe that, Joe was like, “Yup, hired.” 

[00:41:04] And, sure enough, look. Hey Alex, if you’re listening, I hope you’re a barefoot in the grass somewhere. Yeah. Vitamin D. It’s connecting 

[00:41:12] with the Earth. Yeah, no, it’s, yeah, I mean, just hiring people like that, you know, that really made my job worth it too, you know, you show up and you want to be there for a guy like that,

[00:41:22] a guy that wants to be there for you, you want to be, or a lady, of course, all, my whole team, like, I literally, like, wake up thinking about these people. I still do, I wake up and I think about my team, like, I think about sometimes it’s not the best thoughts, sometimes it’s like, “Has this guy been to Ghost Alley?”

[00:41:48] Chris Corcoran: Right, but it happens. Right? But most times there’s nobody there to call them out on this. Yeah. 

[00:41:53] Trevor Shan: A hundred 

[00:41:54] Chris Corcoran: percent. Right. Then, that’s what they need. That’s what they need. And they appreciate it along. 

[00:41:58] They, not right away, sometimes years later. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 

[00:42:05] Trevor Shan: So yeah, like, oh man, all the leadership stuff, just hiring, interviewing people, you know, being there for them, like, that, it taught me so much just how to have confidence, in public speaking, you know, speaking in front of a crowd and huddle, giving those Wednesday trainings, like, just being a DM,

[00:42:20] you, you have to assume a role that maybe you don’t feel ready for, but you have, you just have to assume it, and slowly enough, you start to realize, like, “I’m becoming this, you know, I’m becoming this, like, for me, I’m becoming this man that, like, I had an image of, of a DM and now I’m really becoming this,” kind of like when it comes to a guy that, my, my inklings with how I hire and all this type of stuff, and you guys know all of this, but I’d say, like, so much value in the, in the sales department, leadership department. And, and this is what I tell people too,

[00:42:52] sorry to be so long-winded. 

[00:42:54] Marc Gonyea: No, no, no, no, I’m 

[00:42:55] just making sure we’re good. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:42:57] No, you know? So, like, 

[00:42:59] Trevor Shan: um.

[00:42:59] Marc Gonyea: You got rookie DMs who 

[00:43:02] want to hear this. Okay, well, then rookie DMs, hear this, this job is not only good for, you know, crushing it in tech sales, it’s sales in general, sales in general, because, you know, when I think of you guys, I don’t think of tech sales, I think of salesman, you guys know how to sell, that’s what you’re teaching people here and

[00:43:17] you teach your people how to be real salespeople. So, this job carries, it spills into your life, your interactions, your social interactions, whether it be, you know, me talking to a random girl or something, or me, you know, socializing my friends, you know, meeting a new group of people at a bar, whatever it may be,

[00:43:36] I have a different, like, essence to, like, a different confidence, a different way of carrying myself, of, you know, conversating with people and I attribute that to the DM rule a hundred percent, you know, because it just, like, it beats that confidence in you, whether you have it or not, like, you either gonna, I don’t think I’ve seen DM sing, but you, you, you kind of go through these motions and unless you build that confidence, you can’t be a DM, so it’s almost impossible,

[00:44:00] so it’s like, it’s, it really does spill into the rest of my, it spilled into the rest of my life. And, I even noticed sometimes I’m like, in social settings on a weekend or something, and I’m like, just the way I’m talking and carrying myself, I’m like, “Man, like, come on.” But it’s cool. It’s it really does,

[00:44:16] like, it’s very helpful, 

[00:44:18] you know? We have two DMs in 

[00:44:19] Virginia who are, who are coming up, they’re, you know, they’re getting closer to their two-year mark, Kelsie Edmonds and Jenn Cedillo and they say the same thing, but they had, they, 

[00:44:30] you got to get there. It’s a journey. 

[00:44:32] It’s a journey. But it’ll impact you kind of, your, your, all those things you’re 

[00:44:37] saying I didn’t want to say it.

[00:44:39] Trevor understands reps. Yeah. Yep. Oh, it’s, so talk about, talk about that. Ooh, yeah, reps are 

[00:44:44] Trevor Shan: everything, I mean, that’s why I have, if you guys see my calendar at work, I just have role-plays with all my like, SDRs, especially the new guys, like, 

[00:44:51] every day, it’s all about the reps and they 

[00:44:53] know it. Some of them are addicted to it,

[00:44:55] like, they’ll, if I can’t role play in the morning, they’re like, “Can we push that afternoon?” You know, like, “I need this.” 

[00:45:00] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. It’s like, “Yeah, I know you need this.” 

[00:45:02] Chris Corcoran: That’s a California-office thing, like, we role play in the company, but I’m just hearing about it a lot here, those are yorkie thing or what, but, like, Reeves or w, or just part 

[00:45:11] Marc Gonyea: of. It’s definitely a new thing.

[00:45:13] Trevor Shan: Yeah. I would, I would literally, you know, I have an SDR in one of those small conference rooms and I have rapid-fire roleplay, especially when we’re, you know, it’s like, “Hey, we need to be there now.” I’m like, we’ll be on a role-play, they’ll say something, like, whatever, doesn’t, doesn’t fly, I’ll hang up, walk in the room, give them feedback,

[00:45:29] “Let’s do it again,” you know, I won’t even let it go all the way to the end, it’s just like chop, chop, chop, and then they’ll slowly, slowly make it to the end, and then once we get to the end, they’re good, you know? And, it’s, that’s the reps that you need to put in. As a manager it’s time, like, managers have to want to show up to do that,

[00:45:44] you know, like, you think I want to do it every morning? That’s what I tell them. I’m like, when they don’t show up for it ’cause some of them don’t, you know, and I kind of leave it on them, I’m like, “I don’t want to interrupt your blitz, your morning, if you want to warm up on, you got me, if not,” but the newer people, “You gotta do it,”

[00:46:02] but some of the older guys, I tell them, I’m like, you know, “You’re missing out on this practice, you know? And, if you don’t, you, if you don’t show up, you’re, it’s, you become rusty,” you know, and the ones who do show up, you see them becoming sharper and sharper and sharper. And, I tell them, it’s like, “I’m putting work on me too, guys,

[00:46:18] Trevor Shan: like, you gotta do this for 5 minutes, but I got to do it for, like, 35 minutes if I’m doing it for everybody, you know? And, I don’t mind doing that, I will do that, but, like, you gotta meet me halfway to empathy,” you 

[00:46:28] Marc Gonyea: know? Meet me halfway. Meet me halfway. 

[00:46:30] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. Let’s, let’s flip over to the interview skills, you know,

[00:46:33] ’cause that’s part of the sales process too, right? You’re getting people to come work for you and so the heart of, heart of the beast, the belly of the beast, and we offer a lot of value, but if you want to make more money or you have to produce, so we’re typically not the highest-paying job initially, at least.

[00:46:51] Right? So, wha, what, what did you develop or what, how did you, how did your interviews, how you interview people, develop that style? 

[00:46:58] Trevor Shan: You know, for me is I 

[00:47:00] almost don’t want somebody who’s 

[00:47:02] that concerned about the money, you know, because you want somebody who, because if somebody has that mindset already, they’re kind of entitled.

[00:47:10] It’s like, “Do you deserve that?” Like, “What market value are you at right now?” When I was walking in, like I told you guys, I, I didn’t have the price tag, I didn’t have the paycheck in mind at all, I, I was ready to learn, you know? Maybe I’m in a different situation, yeah, maybe somebody didn’t, it’s not as blessed to live with their parents,

[00:47:26] they need money, of course, okay, so let’s talk to those people, right? So, I would say, you know, the way I would interview too, is with that in mind, I almost feel like I would never, like, oversell memoryBlue in that way, you know, like, like, overselling, like, you know, “You’re gonna, you can make this much more money if you,” I would never sell them that dream,

[00:47:47] I’d say, “You’re probably gonna make this, you know, you do really well, you’re probably gonna make, you know,” I don’t know what it is now so I’m not gonna say anything, “But you’d probably need to make this ballpark range,” but this is, I would sell them on the stuff, like, the, the skills, the value, the culture, you know, what it’s like to be on my team type of thing,

[00:48:02] you know, like, this is, that’s what I would sell them on the experience, you know, and I would say, “If you’re, if you’re thinking,” I would probably tell this to a lot of people in interview, “If you’re thinking you’re gonna, you’re gonna come here and make a lot of money in your first year, this is probably isn’t the place for you,”

[00:48:17] you know, you can do that and many people have, I’m not going to say that, but yeah, it’s definitely, I did that, you know, I did that, I didn’t think I would do that, but I did that, and sure enough it’s because I had my mind in the right place. If you have your mind in the right place, you’re not thinking, “What can I get out of this?”

[00:48:32] you are thinking more of like, “What can I give? What, what, what can I produce? How much value can I give other people?” You’re, you’re gonna, I tell my SDRs this all the time because they want promotions all the time, I say, “Focus on your job, focus on hitting your numbers, and when something comes around you, it’s going to be a no-brainer,”

[00:48:48] you know? So, interviewing, I would sell that experience. I would sell the fact that like, you’re going to get, you know, maybe you can go get, like, 5k more working for a tech company, but guess what? You’re not going to, you’re not going to be treated with as much respect, you know, just frankly, maybe at some places you would, but, like, here you’re, you’re getting into this where everybody’s doing the same thing.

[00:49:09] You’re, you’re in the same environment and you’re e, it’s competitive, you know, you don’t get that at the tech company, you don’t get the competitiveness, you don’t get the culture, you know, they don’t really teach, typ, typically they don’t teach you how to sell, that’s the problem with technology sales, I realize, is they, they teach you about the product and the technology ’cause they’re whizzes with that

[00:49:28] but when it comes to communicating that to somebody else and maybe doing that within 30 seconds, you know, like, all that type of stuff is missing, so if you’re looking for that stuff, if you’re looking to develop yourself as not only a tech sales professional, because you’re in the right place for that,

[00:49:43] but if you want to develop yourself as a salesperson, as an entrepreneur, as somebody who understands business and how to, how to really hustle, this is the place you wanna be. Yeah, this is what teaches you that hustle, you know, and that’s, tech sales is for hustlers. It really is. 

[00:49:58] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Yeah. It’s too hard not to be. Yeah. And, you’ve done a good job,

[00:50:03] I mean, I know you had countless people get converted by their client, right? Rodriguez was on, your, your hire, your guy, he’s an account executive here, you know? So, you, you obviously looked, left the mark doing those things. So, what else? Well, you’ve got all these other interests too, right? So, let’s talk a 

[00:50:21] little bit about 

[00:50:21] that.

[00:50:22] Yeah. So, I mean, so that’s what I, you know, kind of rewind when I was kind of in those uncomfortable kitchen mornings with my dad, you know, what I was trying to, I would, I, every morning I would put out, like, a little blog post I’d write for 30 minutes on, like, neuroscience or fasting or biology, something that was interesting to me, I would just put out a little block, but I didn’t know what I was doing.

[00:50:41] I was like, “I want to be one of those guys on YouTube or whatever doing this, but I don’t know how to, like, get into that,” you know? You, you know, we see a lot of these guys on Instagram, YouTube, all that type of stuff, you don’t realize that what they’re doing is a business, you know? They have a business behind it,

[00:50:56] they have a brand, they have clients, that’s how they’re making money, you know? I’m not talking about your famous 1-million-view people, I’m talking about the more, the low-key people who are really hustling, you know, they’re really hustling, and I had no idea of how to do anything in that world, you know, and then kind of fast forward to being a DM, being a DM taught me everything I needed to know to, like, run my business, you know, as an individual, um, as, like, a sole proprietor because, basically, that’s what a DM is.

[00:51:26] You’re sole proprietor, you’re like, you’re, you have your own book of business, you’re responsible for it, you’re responsible for the people who work on it, you’re orchestrating it, you know, you’re, what else could you, what else better experience, and on top of that, you’ve got, like, the safety net that is memoryBlue, you know, that is being here,

[00:51:44] that is Joe Reeves, you know, that is incoming clients, that, that’s your safety net, you know? And, that’s like, I couldn’t even, that was priceless for me, you know, learning how to kickoff clients, yeah, it’s a totally different game, of course, I’m doing health and fitness and wellness, but it’s the same concept, and you realize, like, sales is like that in everything,

[00:52:04] like, you need to get somebody on a call, you need to close the deal, you need to schedule a kickoff, you need to kick them off, you need to make sure that all their doubts and worries are taken care of and you’ve addressed everything and you need to have weekly check-ins, you also need to make sure that they’re showing up for you, especially in what I’m doing,

[00:52:22] like, “You better be doing what I’m giving you, man.” And, the same thing for the clients, like, at memoryBlue, like, you need to make sure your clients are giving you everything you need and your 

[00:52:30] SDR. 

[00:52:31] Yeah. That’s the part we have talked about. Your clients have responsibility as well, even though they’re paying us. A hundred percent. Right, they got to show up, to show, you got to show up to the party and you got to do the things that we’re asking you to do,

[00:52:41] and it’s just not “write the check and forget about it.” Doesn’t happen, 

[00:52:45] it’s 

[00:52:45] not, it’s not magic. No, yeah, 

[00:52:46] Trevor Shan: and that’s tough as a DM, you know, because you don’t want to push back on that CML or, you know, you don’t want to be, you know, you’re like, “I’m your, like, person that,” but no, you realize like you have to treat, you have to think of it as a partnership in your mind,

[00:53:00] you have to, and if you do that, you’re actually not being a good partner by letting that person do something the wrong way, 

[00:53:08] you know, or push something that shouldn’t be 

[00:53:09] pushed, or whatever it may be. Like, as a DM, like, a real tenured, experienced, sharp DM will always, like, instinctively push back, you know, even, like, maybe when you don’t need to, but you push back a little, see where you can go, like, see, you know, just show them that like, “Hey, I mean, business, I care about this,

[00:53:25] I’m not just a roll-over, you know, I’ll-get-it-done type of person, like, I will, I have initiatives too, like, maybe we should try this,” you know, like, more of a contributor. But yeah, back to the, what I was saying is it’s helped me kind of structure that, like, find out how to have clients, how to build a business, like, what it means to not have clients all of a sudden, you know what I mean,

[00:53:47] like, and that gives me so much respect for you guys and what you guys have built and how hard it must’ve been at the beginning, you know, not knowing if you’re gonna be able to land the next client or, like, even produce results for the client that you sold and it’s all like, and you think going into business, you need to have all of that ironed out, but it’s like, no, you have to figure it out as you do it, you know?

[00:54:07] And, it’s like I, I booked you guys a lot and I’m like, “Wow,” like I always think about this, I’m like, “I can’t 

[00:54:13] Marc Gonyea: believe they did that.” “If those two guys could do it, anybody could do it.”

[00:54:18] Trevor Shan: Waking up saying, Ghost town, Corcoran. 

[00:54:24] Honestly what you guys have done is probably so unimaginably tough. I can’t even imagine how you guys did it because what I’m doing it’s, like, something that I’ve, I consider myself an expert in and I’ve been doing for so long, it’s tough for me, you know, it’s like, it’s, it’s ridiculous, like, I don’t by any means have, like, the most established business yet.

[00:54:43] It’s a work in progress, of course ’cause this is, I also have a full-time job, but, um, yeah, it’s, uh, without, without the DM experience there’s no chance I would have any of this. I wouldn’t know how to manage clients, I wouldn’t know what it is to, you know, like, why I should have, like, a duration of a program, you know, like, check-ins, like, how important it is to hold them accountable and, and the whole sales aspect of it, you know, the whole sales aspect of it.

[00:55:10] I learned with being an SDR and being a DM and, and mo, I’ve learned more sales as a DM because you’re exposed to, like, higher-level sales conversations, like, you know, “What, what does the company care about? What is converting your revenue? You know, what is the message they’re trying to send? Who is the real audience?” and all this stuff that can tend to fly above the SDR-level head, but, like, you’re exposed to all of this as a DM, you know, you’re seeing the whole chain of command, like, and that’s something that I’m learning a lot in my current role in, like, working on is like, how can I best stay on the, on the f, keep my finger on the pulse of how my CRO is thinking, how my sales director is thinking, how the AEs are selling what they’re selling

[00:55:51] and how can I best align what we’re, our messaging and our reach and our targeting so that it’s a seamless 

[00:55:56] Chris Corcoran: process, you know, from the ground up. So, talk to us a little bit about your business. I want to hear a little bit about what you’re 

[00:56:02] Trevor Shan: doing. Yeah, so I, uh, I’ll basically work with, uh, individuals online from around the world anywhere over the course of 12 weeks and, basically, to get them in the best shape of their lives,

[00:56:14] and I do this with no, you don’t need to go to a gym or anything like that, I’m giving a pitch right now. 

[00:56:20] Marc Gonyea: I want to hear about it. Yeah. 

[00:56:22] Trevor Shan: You give ’em, you just need one kettlebell, you just need one yoga mat and that’s it. And, basically, like, over the course of 12 weeks, I, I take people through this journey of ramping up on kettlebell workouts, loosening up their body and their joints via, like, yoga-follow-along videos, 

[00:56:40] learning how to eat the right way, that the best, you know, maybe harmonizes 

[00:56:45] your circadian rhythm,

[00:56:46] and that’s the most important thing that I’ve found when it 

[00:56:49] comes to, you know, what most people 

[00:56:51] are looking for which is most people want to have a lean, strong physique that they feel healthy and well, and they are able to do things, there are no joint pain, you know, they feel confident with their body, all that type of stuff

[00:57:03] so that’s what I want to help people do. And, I myself have realized that, like, you don’t need a lot of time to do that, you only need 30 to 45 minutes a day, you don’t need a lot of space, you know, with, with a kettlebell. There’s no excuses with this program, you know, so, like, I, I kind of offer that no-excuse, very efficient program where I’m kind of working with these people

[00:57:25] to get them to their goal and, like, and it’s cool because we learn, I learned a lot about them, they learned a lot about themselves, like, what are their real blockages, where their real excuses lie, where are their real bad habits, you know, what are those bad habits that get, keep getting in the way type of thing.

[00:57:39] But yeah, so I’ll, you know, they’ll find me on Instagram or something like that, they’ll message me and go through the process, you know, the sales process. I’ll send them a message out to qualify them a little bit, like, “What do you do for a living? you know, “What’s your height and weight?” stuff like that,

[00:57:54] Trevor Shan: like, just, “Is it, is this person serious, is it worth my time?” And then I’ll get them on a phone call, preferably a Zoom call, you always want to be on the Zoom. Yes. 

[00:58:03] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:58:04] Chris Corcoran: Really? Why would you want to be on a Zoom and not just have one the phone? Yeah. 

[00:58:09] Why would you want to be on a Zoom? 

[00:58:10] Trevor Shan: Oh, I found that it’s much easier to close people on Zoom.

[00:58:14] It’s much easier because 

[00:58:16] like, yeah, 

[00:58:18] yeah because on the phone I can’t, I don’t know, they don’t know me yet, you know, even so they’re seeing him, yeah, they can’t see me, they just know me on the Instagram, now they’re talking to a voice, now this voice is asking them for, like, a thousand bucks or something, you know, it’s like, it’s tough.

[00:58:34] I have done it, but it’s, those people maybe have followed me for longer and they know me a little bit more, know, like, and trust, you know? 

[00:58:41] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Um, what’s the know, like and, 

[00:58:42] what’s know, like, 

[00:58:43] and trust, what is that? 

[00:58:44] Trevor Shan: That’s something I just hear in, in, uh, 

[00:58:46] amongst the social media 

[00:58:48] marketing world a lot, is, like, so there’s this thing that I’m trying to do where I’m trying to, basically, show up every single day on social media,

[00:58:57] and if you do that, they call the-two-year rule, where you show up every day for two years in a niche, a very specific niche, you know, and the more deep you can get into your niche, the better, you know, the more. You. 

[00:59:08] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Sounds like being an SDR. 

[00:59:10] Trevor Shan: Exactly. Yeah. You’re constantly learning, you’re at your audience through your clients and through the people who interact and engage with you,

[00:59:16] and you just show up every day consistently for two years, and isn’t guaranteed after two years and you can be, like, super successful, no, but at that point, you’re going to have an audience that knows you, they like you and they trust you, and those are the people most likely to buy from you, you know, so. 

[00:59:30] Marc Gonyea: Let’s go.

[00:59:31] And so I want to hear more about this, this, this, this business, so it’s a, it’s a 12-week program in, in, are, is it like a daily session with you? Is it live? Is it like, talk to me a 

[00:59:41] Chris Corcoran: little bit more about, but before you get into that, let’s talk about why, what you, ’cause this, the same thing with Chris and I have going there at memoryBlue, right?

[00:59:51] Like, we’d like getting people, Chris and I, and I think you, as a manager, you’d like seeing people go where they get to go. Right? But, “Open these doors,” as Mike Mishler would say. Yeah. And, there’s a lot of, you get some financial reward from this and I want to talk about the program itself, but I want to talk about, like, the big “Why” for you and what does it mean, you and I were talking about before we started, what are these people were kind of reveal to you? Come back to these people, your 

[01:00:13] Marc Gonyea: clients. 

[01:00:14] Trevor Shan: Yeah.

[01:00:15] The big “Why” for me is, is literally changing someone’s life, it’s priceless, you know? Like, when I get, like, a text from one of the guys that I’m training, there’ll be like, some guys will text me and be like, “I’ve never felt this way in my life,” you know? Like, I’ve, I’ve never felt, like, I used to play football in high school,

[01:00:31] I thought I was in good shape, I’m in good shape now,” you know? And, I’m like, I’ve had guys that have their testosterone at like very low, very low readings, like, maybe, I, I forget right now off the top of my head, but maybe, like, 200, 300 something like that, they’ll work with me, like, this one guy worked with me and he was, was, like, above 1000 after, like. Wow. Yeah,

[01:00:50] and he, he was shredded after and he was, like, in his forties and I was, like, so proud. Yeah. I was proud of him, you know? And, and he, and he was the type of guy who worked out a lot, he was already doing some hard stuff, he just wasn’t seeing the results he wanted, you know? And, I was like, “Well, we’ll do this and this and this,”

[01:01:08] and so we got him those results, you know? And, he, you know, so many people that, that just makes me feel, I, I don’t want, I’m not in it for the money, you know, I will give somebody their money back if they want, you know, like, I, I want them to get the results. I care more than they do. A lot of my clients even tell me that, they’re like, “You, dude, it’s, you know, working with you motivates me

[01:01:27] ’cause I realize you care more about my health than I 

[01:01:29] do.” 

[01:01:30] Chris Corcoran: Wow. Yeah. It will come back to the program, but, but that’s why, like, you were such a great fit for memoryBlue because people, some people are like, “You guys are crazy. You let the clients, like, you, the client hired you and you’re a prized possession of the company.”

[01:01:43] Right? “But you don’t, you don’t let the clients hire the people and the people that work for the clients, and sometimes the clients and the people go away, what’s wrong with you?” But that’s not a way to scale a business, but we’re also about getting people where they want to go if they want to get there, and, like, we get as much rush-out of that as we do, like, “Well, I did for the money.”

[01:02:03] No. Right? And, you’re not in, your in business for the money, but you’re, and we’re back to people’s lives, I think, too, because we’re helping people get where they want to go financially, professional, professionally, which helps financially, but you’re helping people with their health. Health is wealth. Health is wealth.

[01:02:16] Who said that? Somebody said that yesterday, but anyways, like, like the health is, your most prime, speaking of price, possessions. 

[01:02:24] Marc Gonyea: It’s everything. That’s amazing. 

[01:02:25] Trevor Shan: It’s everything. It’s even, like, a lot of what I sell it as too is like, if you’re a, if you’re in sales or something, like what I was just saying earlier, you know, like, if you really want to be the best, like, SDR or even account executive, like, if you really want to be closing deals and, like, have that hunter mentality, you best be in the best shape possible, you have to be held, you know, you’re going to lose the people who 

[01:02:48] are. 

[01:02:49] Marc Gonyea: You know, you’re gonna 

[01:02:49] Trevor Shan: lose the people who are. Yeah, like, nowadays it’s, it’s competitive, and,

[01:02:54] like, people are educated now, they know what is, how to get healthy, they know how to work out they know they can hire a trainer, you know, like, people know the impact that health has on, like, the rest of your life. 

[01:03:04] Marc Gonyea: And, we talked about the role, with this wrap-up talking about, Chris is going to talk about your program. Yes. We’ll talk a little bit more about program, 

[01:03:11] and then we can just close 

[01:03:12] Trevor Shan: out. 

[01:03:14] Okay. So yeah, the program. 

[01:03:17] Chris Corcoran: So, tell me a little bit about this program,

[01:03:19] is it, is it they’re meeting with you face-to-face or live in-person? Are they recordings, is it a combination of two? What’s the program? 12 weeks? 

[01:03:28] Trevor Shan: Yeah. A good question. So, since it’s all remote, online, I’ll meet with them on a Sunday, you know, for the initial kickoff, give them their first kind of week of training

[01:03:36] and I, I’ll give it to them in a document, like, a Google document with instructions for everything, when to do what when, you know, what workouts to do, videos for everything, diet plan, when to eat, all that type of checking with me daily with the workout times, they’ll send me videos the first couple of weeks as they’re learning these movements of the kettlebells so I can give them feedback,

[01:03:56] so there’s a lot of interaction in the first couple of weeks, you know, FaceTime, little FaceTime, text, stuff like that, and then as they start to get ramped, they get, they get the gist of the program, it just becomes more of a weekly check in and they’re sending me their times every day, their meals and things like that, I’m just,

[01:04:10] Trevor Shan: “Yeah, good, you know, keep going,” or whatever, any advice they need, any questions. And then, yeah, just, we will sync up weekly and that’s when they’ll get their new plan for the week, and, you know, it’s, in that, in that way, like, it’s a simple business model for me, once I get somebody, like, ramped up into it, you know, the, the real coaching aspect happens in the first couple of weeks while I’m, like, showing them these movements and stuff,

[01:04:31] but what, it’s all very intuitive and all very simple, and it has to be, right? ‘Cause, like, a lot of the clients I have are busy men with jobs, families, maybe their own business and they just don’t have time, they don’t have time for all this lolly gala, gagging, you know, driving to the gym, that’s a lot of time, you know, you’re going to drive to the gym, go to the gym, drive back, take a shower,

[01:04:51] go to work, all that stuff versus you wake up, you warm up for five minutes, you pick up the kiddlebell, you’re done in 30, you’re in the shower, you’re going to work. Chris 

[01:05:00] Marc Gonyea: and I were talking about that, like, point out ’cause Chris does that home workouts and he’s like. Gonyea, I save a lot of time doing them. And, I agree. A lot of time. Yeah, I live close,

[01:05:08] I can ride my bike to the gym on Sundays but it’s still 10 minutes here, 10 minutes back, 15 more minutes to get ready. Yeah. Right? So, there’s 25 minutes, 50 minutes. 

[01:05:19] Trevor Shan: And, there’s the problems, right? Like, not everything is that, you, like, somebody are occupying certain machines or maybe you run into somebody that you, this used to happen to me a lot because I had a lot of people

[01:05:30] I know in the gym, so you run into somebody, it turns into a 30-minute conversation, you don’t want to be rude and you’re having a, it’s a great conversation, it’s cool, but then it’s like, “Oh my God, now I got 15 minutes from my workout.” And, it’s like, little things like that, like, for me, like, working out is a, it’s a, it’s a no-BS, like, thing that I do.

[01:05:50] It’s like a very individual thing that, I like to suffer through it, and I like all that stuff, you know? It’s like a spiritual thing for me, it’s like a meditation or something. Of course. 

[01:06:00] Chris Corcoran: And so where can listeners find out more about you and your business? 

[01:06:05] Trevor Shan: Uh, you can go to, um, you can follow me on Instagram, “Trevorsinstinct_”

[01:06:10] So, it’s just my first name, T R E V O R S, and then Instinct, I N S T I N C T.