Episode 87: Curtis Giles – Believe in What You Sell

The SDRs sitting next to you might be your best teachers. To uncover your style and save time, Curtis Giles advises taking full advantage of your environment.

Now Account Executive at Ambassador Labs, Curtis walks us through a measured and strategic approach to navigating the job market. Know your worth, find a product you believe in, and pay attention to details before pursuing the next step in your sales career.

In this episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers, Curtis shares insights about inbound and outbound campaigning, mitigating cold calling discomfort, and making yourself stand out in a sea of applicants.

Guest-At-A-Glance

💡 Name: Curtis Giles

💡 What he does: He’s an account executive at Ambassador Labs.

💡 Company: Ambassador Labs

💡 Noteworthy: Curtis is a former memoryBlue SDR and SDE.

💡 Where to find Curtis: LinkedIn

Key Insights

⚡ Learn from your peers. Peer learning is one of the most effective ways to thrive in sales. You get to observe different selling techniques and then pick what suits you the most. You can also uncover the best sales practices, save yourself some precious time, and connect with your fellow salespeople. Curtis explains, “Pay attention to others just ’cause — especially here at memoryBlue — that’s really where I think a lot of the value is. Hearing someone else’s calls being in the row, and ‘Oh, they handled that objection that way,’ or, ‘Well, it was a really interesting way to go about it,’ or, ‘I like that opener, I like that close.’ I think that’s where you can get the most information from — that’s something I tried to do, but it would be good advice on day one to say, ‘Hey, just pay attention to your peers and learn what you can.'”

⚡Believe in the product you’re selling. Selling is all about believing. If you firmly believe in the quality of your product or service, you will be much more persuasive and confident. The chances of sealing the deal are much higher if you sell what you believe in. Otherwise, you’ll risk losing your prospects’ trust and damaging your reputation. Curtis says, “Number one, you have to sell a good product, something that you like and that people need because if you don’t like the product or don’t believe in it, you’re just not gonna be able to do it.”

⚡Always think long-term. If you want to be successful, you always have to weigh your options. Think long-term and assess all possibilities. This long-term thinking will help you decide whether an opportunity is right for you or not. Curtis explains, “You’ve got to be able to think long-term. So if you’re going to be at memoryBlue for this long, or you are going to take this client off for now, or we’ll think further than that, like three years ahead. It’s like, where are you going to be if you had stayed at memoryBlue and then found a different opportunity? There are also just way more options if you see it through — do the right thing.”

Episode Highlights

Being Coachable Is a More Critical Factor For a Successful Career in Sales Than Being a Born Salesperson

“I don’t know if I’ve always been built perfectly for sales. Sometimes, not always, asking for exactly what I wanted or being aggressive on the phone — so it just takes a little coaching to get into the right zone and be successful with it.”

Despite What Some People Believe, Cold Calling Doesn’t Have to Be That Uncomfortable

“You have this idea of B2C calling people’s homes and stuff like that, but it was actually — you find people where they have a problem, and you have the solution. So, it’s actually a win-win for all because you just picked up the phone, kind of interrupted their day, and created something out of it. So yeah, I guess I thought people would be meaner. I feel like I didn’t really have any huge blowouts on the phone, although I know that people do.”

The Benefits of Selling in a More Technical Field

“You’re almost putting yourself in a different category — and so something that not everybody can do, you might as well get good at it. And then, it also opens up doors and conversations if you understand the product or what it is doing, you can talk technically and be like, ‘Well, actually I think we can solve this problem that you’re having,’ versus just generalized broad questioning.”

Tips for Picking a Good Job Opportunity in Sales

“It has to be a good product; it has to be something that you like. Sales is hard enough, so if you don’t think what you’re selling is good, you’re not going to be able to do it. The second is the growth path. Where am I going to be if I take this opportunity? What kind of resources do they have for training? Are the people there better than me because that’s good. Then you can just learn more, and the third is the leadership and culture there. […] It’s a little harder to gauge, but the most important thing there is to look at who is in leadership now and what have they done before. Then the fourth point is an addendum because it’s a given. You should definitely not take anything that doesn’t align with your compensation goals; know your worth.”

Transcript: 

[00:00:26] Chris Corcoran: Curtis Giles in the house.

[00:00:49] Curtis Giles: I’m here. 

[00:00:50] Chris Corcoran: For the roadshow and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

[00:00:54] Marc Gonyea: Oh, yeah, that’s right.

[00:00:55] Chris Corcoran: Thanks for making time for us, Curtis. Look forward to catching up with you. 

[00:00:59] For those who may, maybe listening, this is the first time Chris and I have done the podcast live and direct from the office in Waltham, Massachusetts. So, Curtis is the first guy to go. 

[00:01:11] Curtis Giles: Early morning flight.

[00:01:12] Marc Gonyea: Early morning flight. It’s good to get up here. It’s a quick flight. 

[00:01:15] Curtis Giles: Mmm.

[00:01:16] Marc Gonyea: Enough about us. Let’s talk about you. So, you’re not that far gone from memoryBlue, right?

[00:01:22] Curtis Giles: No, just left, uh, last October. So, seven, eight months. 

[00:01:27] Chris Corcoran: October, 2021. 

[00:01:29] But from the prep call, I, you’ve got it to much longer perspective and experience tenure on this we’ll get to. Before we get to that, let’s talk about, just familiarize Chris and I and also people who are listening, uh, about yourself, little personal background.

[00:01:46] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Yeah. So, I’m Curtis, I grew up in Newtown, Connecticut. So, I’d say kind of, kind of a farm town, um, high school and played sports. Some of you guys hearing about athleticism and competition.

[00:01:59] Marc Gonyea: Competition. 

[00:01:59] Curtis Giles: So, I was a swimmer and then I was also a bit, well, it’s not was not like a cross-training, like, tried other sports.

[00:02:04] So, um, track and field, cross country, that. And then…

[00:02:08] Marc Gonyea: We dabbled a little club lacrosse in college, too, right?

[00:02:11] Curtis Giles: A little bit, little bit, yeah. 

[00:02:12] Marc Gonyea: What was your stroke?

[00:02:14] Curtis Giles: I was a freestyler.

[00:02:15] Marc Gonyea: Freestyler.

[00:02:16] Marc Gonyea: Oh, man, this guy goes so fast.

[00:02:17] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Yeah. The other ones were a little too intense. Butterflies, it’s a form of torture.

[00:02:23] Marc Gonyea: The swimming itself is a form of torture, right? Well, why don’t these swimmers that we have at memoryBlue, water so many of the messages great discipline? 

[00:02:31] Curtis Giles: You know, I don’t know. I feel like a lot of the guys that I used to swim with, they’re doing pretty well now. I think it’s more just the daily hop in the pool, get in the cold water and just eat the frog and get after it, day over day.

[00:02:44] Marc Gonyea: What about the whole, like, can’t blame the coach, can’t blame the teammate, can’t blame the scheme? It’s like your time. Does it that, like, cultivate, like, a different perspective on things, like?

[00:02:56] Curtis Giles: Yeah, the, uh, the individual aspect of it. Um, so you have teams, and you have relays, but, um, it gets to be a really, it’s just you in the water, getting in there… 

[00:03:07] Marc Gonyea: And the clock.

[00:03:08] Curtis Giles: Resistance.

[00:03:09] Chris Corcoran: And it sounds like the SDR, just the SDR on the phone.

[00:03:19] Marc Gonyea: So, the Corcoran’s finer moments in the podcast, ladies and gentlemen. All right. So, swimmer, a high school swimmer and then some other sports and then, what’d you think, did you have any idea what you wanted to do, what you thought you might want to do when you’re growing up, in between ones practice? 

[00:03:38] Curtis Giles: Yeah. I mean, I guess as a kid, you probably could have guessed that it would have been in sales at a lot of little mini businesses and things.

[00:03:45] Marc Gonyea: Tell us about that.

[00:03:46] Curtis Giles: Yeah. So, I would, I mean, I guess in middle school, I would, like, buy bulk shock pens from China and, like, distribute those and…

[00:03:55] Marc Gonyea: Give them away?

[00:03:56] Curtis Giles: No.

[00:03:56] Marc Gonyea: So, okay.

[00:03:57] Chris Corcoran: It’s the import-export, import-export, right?

[00:04:00] Curtis Giles: Get them for a dollar, so I’m pretending. Um, and then, uh, throughout it, I did a lot of eBay selling. So, I have, like, an aunt or an uncle that, like, wanted to get rid of an old computer they didn’t want or they wanted somehow inside, you know, to cut and get rid of it that way. 

[00:04:13] Marc Gonyea: “Give it to Curtis, give it to my nephew Curtis.”

[00:04:16] Chris Corcoran: Hey, Curtis, got a foosball table I want to unload.

[00:04:25] Marc Gonyea: That’s too funny. All right, all right. So, you kind of put, did you, did you have any familiarity with professional selling?

[00:04:33] Curtis Giles: No. No. Um, I mean, my mom and my dad were both always in sales. 

[00:04:38] Marc Gonyea: They’re both in sales? So, you have some familiarity. Like, his dad was in the Marines.

[00:04:42] Marc Gonyea: My dad was in the army, and I thought sales.

[00:04:44] Curtis Giles: So, a little bit.

[00:04:45] Marc Gonyea: Both parents?

[00:04:46] Curtis Giles: Right. 

[00:04:46] Chris Corcoran: Wow. 

[00:04:47] Curtis Giles: It’s like, you never know what your parents really do, you know? That’s true to you when you do a workout, but yeah, so it was, dad was in liquor sales, and my mom was not, she sells you still TV, airtime, and not like advertising. Yup. 

[00:05:02] Chris Corcoran: And you were selling pens? 

[00:05:03] Curtis Giles: Yup.

[00:05:05] Marc Gonyea: Wow. Dinner dad. He’s, he’s talking it down, but it must’ve been a little bit different for sure. A good way.

[00:05:11] So, our, all right. So… 

[00:05:13] Chris Corcoran: What other businesses did you have, yeah, you were selling pens. 

[00:05:17] Curtis Giles: Those are the big ones. Um.

[00:05:20] Chris Corcoran: What about that lawn care was that, was that sales? 

[00:05:24] Curtis Giles: That was a little bit of customer service. There was an opportunity for sales, but that was really more just get out on the hotspot and grinds so I have some money to go abroad with.

[00:05:32] Chris Corcoran: Okay.

[00:05:33] Curtis Giles: And that’s, that’s what I worked out.

[00:05:35] Marc Gonyea: Work.

[00:05:36] Curtis Giles: But that’s where I ended up on playing lacrosse in college. It was just a whole club team at the University of Manchester and, um, good way to go to other schools and, you know, have a drink with another team, uh, you know, just get out there.

[00:05:48] Chris Corcoran: So, you went to Manchester, and then you transferred? 

[00:05:51] Curtis Giles: Uh, that was a first semester abroad. 

[00:05:54] Chris Corcoran: Oh, first semester abroad, okay. And then you went to family. Okay.

[00:05:56] Curtis Giles: Which is actually just down the road from here. 

[00:05:58] Marc Gonyea: But, when you were coming out of high school going into college, like, what did you think you’re going to major in?

[00:06:03] Curtis Giles: I was between biology, um, just like life sciences, uh, or just straight business. Uh, and so, I ended up choosing straight business, I think just, kind of more money motivated. That was it really… 

[00:06:15] Marc Gonyea: Okay. 

[00:06:17] Curtis Giles: Get in there, and I just continue the things that I was doing when I was younger. 

[00:06:21] Marc Gonyea: All right. And then, and then, what did you major in?

[00:06:24] Curtis Giles: I majored in finance. 

[00:06:25] Marc Gonyea: Okay. 

[00:06:27] Curtis Giles: Um, I’m not using now, but no, uh, no disagreements there.

[00:06:33] Marc Gonyea: Can you tell us about the President’s Academic Scholarship? 

[00:06:36] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Just something, I guess that kind of relates to how I got here and everything like that. Um, that was just something where, you know, I didn’t have the best grades.

[00:06:46] I was probably like a straight B student. Um, but I, like, showed interest in that leading and I went there, and I interviewed with the staff. Um, and so, basically, they knew that I was going to apply and that I was coming.

[00:06:56] Marc Gonyea: You committed. 

[00:06:58] Curtis Giles: And so, I showed that kind of interest. And so, they said, “Hey, here’s a scholarship.

[00:07:02] Okay, come here, come out.” And, uh, so, knocked on the right doors and, and that, and that helped me make my way through. 

[00:07:08] Chris Corcoran: And finding a way. Finding a way, love the resourcefulness.

[00:07:15] Curtis Giles: Knocking on doors. 

[00:07:16] Chris Corcoran: That’s, that’s kind of a recipe for success, particularly in, in the world of sales. 

[00:07:24] Marc Gonyea: So, but you were like hard doing hardcore finance, right?

[00:07:28] Curtis Giles: Senior year throughout the curriculum, applied behavioral finance, your find all the golden nuggets for knocking on doors. So, so, that when I read the curriculum for finance degree and I was like, “Oh, you can self-study, three credits.” Was getting creative with those. “Okay. Well, I need a six-class to be able to, like, do everything on time.”

[00:07:46] And so, one day, I just, like, jumped up this email to the head of the department, and I said, “Hey, I know you guys don’t have anything offered for behavioral finance.” Thought that was more interesting. Um, “Can I self-study this under you?” Didn’t hear anything back, followed up veggies, like, “Yes, sure. Like, I’m busy but come and meet me in my office.”

[00:08:05] Curtis Giles: And I have this whole curriculum lined up, and he was like, “You know what? I’ve seen you’ve done enough work here. Why don’t I give you, like, these papers, you read them, and you go through it.” And so, I ended up getting three credits just meeting with this professor, I think, maybe five times over the course of the semester.

[00:08:17] And just tell him what I thought about these research papers. And got study a subject that wasn’t offered at the school at the time, behavioral finance 

[00:08:27] Marc Gonyea: Like it. 

[00:08:28] Marc Gonyea: So, when did sales, coming out of school, how did that happen? 

[00:08:32] ‘Cause we don’t see a lot of finance majors kind of rolling, Chris and I were finance majors. But we have some, actually, but we don’t see as many, it’s not as prevalent.

[00:08:41] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Um, I had the restaurant experience, so that was kind of like talking to people. And, you know, I… 

[00:08:49] Chris Corcoran: Serving?

[00:08:50] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Right. 

[00:08:51] Chris Corcoran: Okay. So, that’s, that’s essentially sales, right? 

[00:08:54] Selling, right. I mean, you don’t have to sell them to come to the restaurant, but you do have to, um, selling, et cetera.

[00:09:01] Curtis Giles: On the tip, too.

[00:09:02] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. 

[00:09:03] Curtis Giles: Um, well, kind of, I was always in the back of my mind, but I kind of just stumbled upon it, actually at the, the family career fair. Um, so, once a finance major was really interested in working for Boston Scientific, which had a good, like, finance rotational program. So, you could, you know, get in and see what you liked.

[00:09:20] And, you know, I was, like, trying on new things. Um, but it’s career fair. There’s a hundred people, I don’t know, hundreds of people, suits. So, you know, hot in the gymnasium, like, “All right, I need a warm-up.” And you go talk to someone.

[00:09:34] Chris Corcoran: Seller always does it, seller always plays out, we always plays out, right? We’re, we’re, we’re, wants to warm up.

[00:09:40] Marc Gonyea: Your coworker, Casey Wiles. Um, there you go. Boom. She’s warming up on us, too. 

[00:09:50] Curtis Giles: Oh, yeah? 

[00:09:50] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. So, all right. So, you need to warm up, and what happened?

[00:09:54] Curtis Giles: So, I need a warm-up, like I need to talk to someone before I go in for the, for the big one. And then I see Jeremy Wood standing there next to a picture of tops. So, like the tropical vacation, the giant, the giant poster.

[00:10:06] And I just go, “Hey man, this, this looks pretty fun. Like what, you know, what’s the deal with that?” And we just ended up talking for, like, I don’t know, at least 15, 20 minutes. It took us a little poker chip, thought that was cool. Um, and applied from there. 

[00:10:20] Marc Gonyea: What happened, what happened to Boston scientific?

[00:10:22] Curtis Giles: Oh, I just didn’t even think about it, after that. 

[00:10:24] Marc Gonyea: Jeremy looks like a flee in a fly trap that 

[00:10:28] Marc Gonyea: Casey said the same thing. She saw the picture of tops. 

[00:10:32] Marc Gonyea: Love that picture.

[00:10:32] Curtis Giles: It’s good advertising for college kids. 

[00:10:36] Marc Gonyea: So, do you remember anything from the conversation? 

[00:10:40] Curtis Giles: I think I was just asking about what the role was. Uh, you kind of explained, it’s like, “Yeah, you get to work on multiple different clients.” And like, “Here’s what our alumni do, you know how much they make and where they are.”

[00:10:53] I don’t know. That was really appealing to me.

[00:10:54] Chris Corcoran: Okay. That’s a finance side.

[00:10:58] Curtis Giles: That’s why I saw a graph, and I was like, “Okay, yeah, this is good.” I pick it up. I said, yeah. I was like, “Well, all right. So, look at this alumni graph, they’re all in these different breakdowns percentages. I could be in the top 50%, probably. All right. So, this is not a bad bet.” Um, and yeah, I ended up coming in for the interview and moving from there, but then, you guys didn’t hire me.

[00:11:21] Marc Gonyea: Yes. Talk about that.

[00:11:24] Curtis Giles: Um, so, I gone through, I guess, one, one interview or maybe, maybe it’s just, just a screening call actually with, um, with, uh, Libby Gladys. And after that it was the disc. And so, I remember sitting in between classes and taking that and then get an email a couple of days later. Uh, it was like, “Hey, sorry, uh, we can’t continue from here. Failed, failed the personality assessment. Um, maybe you can try again later.” I was like, “Well, damn, that sucks. Is there any way around?” She said, “Well, I don’t know. You can try this later on.” I don’t know if many people have done that. Um, so, a couple of months later on, um, I think it was, that was in October is it’s, like, December, at this point.

[00:12:02] Um, and I sent a desperate email, I guess, like two weeks, and I said, “Hey, really liked this opportunity. Could you give me another shot? Um, I think it’s, I think it’s the right thing for me.” And I didn’t hear anything back for a little bit. I remember it was, like, the day after Christmas, I got, like, a text. It was like, “Hey, can you drop, hop on the phone for a call?”

[00:12:22] So, I go down, and I’m on vacation in Florida, and I go down to this hotel. I’m sitting by the pool, there’s always kids playing around, I thought it was just gonna be, like, a quick call, turns out it was an interview with Lily. And then, it goes on for, I don’t know, half an hour. And then, from there, ended up getting into, like, the formal, formal interview process and, um, and getting an offer.

[00:12:39] Yeah, I think it was, it was good to follow up and not let that opportunity die, for sure. 

[00:12:43] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. What would to consider maybe when you felt desperate, but for whatever reason, I wouldn’t even call desperate, you sent a follow-up, right? That’s kind of the recurring thing to you. And, uh, what happened then?

[00:12:55] Did they, did they move the offer in the winter or?

[00:13:00] Curtis Giles: I was graduating in May.

[00:13:01] Marc Gonyea: Yep. 

[00:13:02] Curtis Giles: Uh, and so, I think I signed in January…

[00:13:05] Marc Gonyea: Okay.

[00:13:06] Curtis Giles: …to start in July.

[00:13:08] Marc Gonyea: Excellent.

[00:13:09] Curtis Giles: So, it’s always an awesome feeling having a job lined up then out there. 

[00:13:18] Marc Gonyea: Fast forward to July. What was it like starting? What do you remember?

[00:13:24] Marc Gonyea: COVID, right?

[00:13:25] Curtis Giles: Yup. 

[00:13:25] Marc Gonyea: So, did you, did you have any second thoughts? I mean, this is an interesting question. Sometimes I worry that I think the folks who accept early, like, might get, change their mind, might do something else. But, for you is, I think for a lot of people it’s like, “Oh, I got that done.” Yeah, right?

[00:13:39] Curtis Giles: No, I was glad to have already had a position ’cause, um, I’m sure it got more competitive after that.

[00:13:45] And I know a lot of people were struggling to find jobs. So, I was, I was happy to see. Um, I was ready to go, also had a little bit of a summer, too. And so, um, it was on with the remote. I think my first weeks were remote. 

[00:13:57] Chris Corcoran: Wow. From Connecticut?

[00:13:59] Curtis Giles: Yep. Okay, I’m from Connecticut, so I was at my desk, say, “Hey, here’s a client Form 1, learn everything you can about them. We’ll talk later in the day.”

[00:14:07] Marc Gonyea: Form 1, love that company. 

[00:14:09] That are out for bid on. 

[00:14:11] Curtis Giles: There’s still client? 

[00:14:12] Marc Gonyea: Still a client, really still a client Dr. Dre, and it’s still still happening. 

[00:14:20] So, you were working, working from home. Did you get down to the office? Keep going, walk us through the COVID thing.

[00:14:26] Actually, this is this, this really that for a bit. So, did you have, were there people who you’ve graduated with, who were having a hard time getting a gig or people nervous about going to work? Or what was that like?

[00:14:35] Graduating in May of 2020.

[00:14:37] Curtis Giles: Yeah. I mean, the last few weeks of online classroom were very weird.

[00:14:41] The only good thing about it is that I think professors weren’t in the mood to feeling you want to give them a hard time, you know, with everything that was going on. Starting work was, was interesting. I think I was week in, week out, but I remember my roommate that I moved in with, uh, we moved in and he hadn’t had a job yet.

[00:15:00] Curtis Giles: And he was just like, “All right, this would be the, that’s the pay right now that her, I guess somebody killing.” But, yeah. So, it was, it was an odd time, especially calling clients, too, somebody, not everybody’s doing well. 

[00:15:10] Marc Gonyea: When, how was it? Like, did you have a mentor kick it off? Like, you were on academy virtual, right? Was that, were you able to build any relationships with anybody then, or how?

[00:15:22] Curtis Giles: Yeah, I mean, went to the office shortly after, but virtual academy was interesting. I mean, in case your office was in my academy, Jack Class, a couple of other guys. 

[00:15:32] Chris Corcoran: Do you know anyone from Bentley? 

[00:15:34] Curtis Giles: No, I believe there may be some Bentley people here now.

[00:15:37] Chris Corcoran: Okay. 

[00:15:38] Curtis Giles: But, but when I started they weren’t. 

[00:15:40] Marc Gonyea: One of the first.

[00:15:41] Chris Corcoran: .So, you, so, you come in and you do virtual academy and then, at that point, it was week in, week out. Talk about that a little bit. 

[00:15:51] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Well, so for the first few weeks, I believe, uh, I think Gonzales, uh, who was my manager was out. And so.

[00:15:57] Marc Gonyea: Big Rob.

[00:15:58] Curtis Giles: It’s kind of funny, you look at, like, the leadership that was above a, um, Emie Moore was my mentor.

[00:16:04] And so, I didn’t realize it at the time, but she basically just took over the DM responsibilities, like onboarding me for the first few weeks. I didn’t realize that wasn’t typical of a mentor. 

[00:16:12] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:16:13] Curtis Giles: And so, got me going pretty quickly. It was, like one of those people who’s, like, more excited for you to get your fresh first book and, um, you know, be successful.

[00:16:24] Marc Gonyea: She was excited for you. Was that, was that important?

[00:16:26] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know if I’ve always been like built perfectly for sales. Sometimes, like, not always, yeah, asking for exactly what I want or, like, being as aggressive on the phones. And so, sometimes it just takes a little coaching to, like, get into the right zone and be successful with it.

[00:16:49] Chris Corcoran: But the perseverance and work ethic, man, give me those ingredients, and the rest can be coached. But you can’t coach someone to have perseverance or have one strong work ethic, in my opinion. Curtis hires that. 

[00:17:05] Marc Gonyea: Curtis seems to know what he wants, too. Like, in a good way. Like, you kind of know you have a good sense of what’s important to you, and yet those time being financed,

[00:17:14] some people just wouldn’t even consider something else just because they, “I was a finance major.” I would, I be like, “No, no. I think this kind of fits me, I want to give this a shot.” Right?

[00:17:22] So, well, in school, he could have gotten tracked on a finance job up here in the Boston area, easily. So, and I don’t know if he was really built for sales.

[00:17:31] Chris Corcoran: Now. So, quick question for you and, you know, rarely in life are experiences exactly as you think they’re going to be, it’s different, right, what you expect something to be and then what it is is different. So, what was the biggest difference of being an SDR, what you thought it was going to be like, and then what it actually was like?

[00:17:50] I guess I probably initially thought people were going to be a lot meaner and that, uh, there wasn’t as much, uh, how you created it as it really was. ‘Cause cold call and you kind of the, the words together, you have this idea of like B to C, calling people’s homes and stuff like that. But it was actually, you know, you find people where they had a problem, and you have the solution and it’s actually a win-win all because you just picked up the phone kind of interrupted their day and created something out of it.

[00:18:21] Curtis Giles: So, yeah. I guess I thought people will be meaner. I feel like I didn’t really have any, huge blowouts on the phone that I know people do.

[00:18:27] Chris Corcoran: Yeah.

[00:18:28] Curtis Giles: Um, you know, it’s on there. 

[00:18:30] Chris Corcoran: It doesn’t happen that frequently, but. 

[00:18:32] Marc Gonyea: Corcoran, did you have huge blowouts on the phone?

[00:18:34] Chris Corcoran: I’m sure. But I don’t remember them. I don’t remember them. 

[00:18:41] Marc Gonyea: Neither do I.

[00:18:41] Curtis Giles: But, they were the good calls. Right? 

[00:18:43] Chris Corcoran: They all kind of blur together, actually. I mean, just in terms of just the, just the prospecting calls and, I mean, yeah, you take the good with the bad. 

[00:18:53] Curtis Giles: That’s true. 

[00:18:53] Chris Corcoran: But, the bad to your point that a bit, the most people think the bad is going to be much more frequent and much worse than it actually turns out to be. Because prior to starting in professional sales, most people are only familiar with business to consumer and the phone calls received at the house during dinner time for a new roof, where this is completely different.

[00:19:22] Curtis Giles: Some of my other problems, there’s a solution out there. Um, but I do like the idea that they would have no idea about it unless, you know, you pick up the phone and call them or reach out.

[00:19:32] Chris Corcoran: So, that was the biggest misconception about it. Was it, was the role harder or easier than you thought it was going to be?

[00:19:40] Curtis Giles: That’s a good question. I’d say it’s probably about what I expected. Maybe a little easier. I remember the first, the role-play and the interview, like calling, and my heart was pumping. And then, I remember the first, like, few weeks of dialing just same thing, just like your heart racing, going, and then you kind of get into a rhythm and you’re like, “All right. Got to make my calls and go. And then, once you feel really confident with it, um, it comes easier to win. 

[00:20:06] Marc Gonyea: There’s also easier when you’re doing well.

[00:20:08] Curtis Giles: Sure. Everything else around it. Sure. It’s easier. 

[00:20:11] Chris Corcoran: Sure. And looking back, you know, before you started as an SDR, what advice would you give to yourself before you started SDR position?

[00:20:19] I would say pay attention to others. Um, just ’cause, especially here in memoryBlue, there’s, that’s really where I think, like, a lot of the value is, is like hearing someone else’s calls being in, being in the row and “Oh, they handled that objection that way.” Or, uh, “Well, it was really interesting to go about it.” Or “Liked that opener, liked that close.”

[00:20:38] Curtis Giles: Um, I think that’s where you can get the most information from, um, there’s something I tried to do, but it would be good advice on day one to say, “Hey, just pay attention to your peers and learn what we can.” 

[00:20:49] Chris Corcoran: And then, uh, that’s, I think that’s hitting the nail right on the head. Talk about, was that easier on the sales floor?

[00:20:56] So, you’re, you’re week in the office, or you’re week at home. And how could you do that virtually? 

[00:21:05] Curtis Giles: Yeah, definitely was easier in the office and my week in there. And it was always just a, I mean, call break downs I thought were great, um, always helpful. Um, but it was, it was almost just like the walking by or catching a part of a conversation that, I really picked up from that. Like, just, “Oh, they said, like, this for the close.”

[00:21:26] Um, I can’t think of any examples, but just picking up that little knowledge. So, it is good to be in, around each other. I think in this, in this role, especially. I think you guys are, you are on the same page. 

[00:21:38] Chris Corcoran: It definitely has something to do about control. It has about, we want to get people to learn as fast as possible, right? So that they can produce for their client and for themselves. And then, once they’re accomplished, then they’re best set to go work out and work virtually once they’ve learned kind of the profession.

[00:21:56] Marc Gonyea: If you do something, if you’re learning how to master something, and that’s what we’re doing here, learn how to master the outbound motion, and you put time and energy into it, if you walk by somebody’s desk who’s doing the same thing you’ve been doing, the same motion. Be it like lifting weights, you know, at the gym or someone who plays a sport, maybe somebody does a task. You’re going to be curious about how they do it and how it compares to you. And if you’re not, we’ve made a huge mistake in hiring you.

[00:22:26] But you can learn a lot just by walking by and slowing down your, your jot for half a step, just to hear how they open up a call. 

[00:22:33] Curtis Giles: Yeah. 

[00:22:35] Marc Gonyea: Or how you can kind of hear what, how they sound prosperous, running them off the phone. Right? 

[00:22:41] Curtis Giles: There’s a lot of desks out here too, to listen to them. 

[00:22:44] Marc Gonyea: That’s, the second, it’s a dojo. You learn about, everybody’s doing the same stuff. It’s not about micromanaging you it’s about teaching you how to do it the right way, which involves you being managed, but, also, they don’t have to everyone else. So, who else, who were you rolling with? Who were the people leaving or walking by their desk or sitting next to? Who was the ,who were learning from?

[00:23:05] Curtis Giles: Um, I always loved Rob’s team. Um, think it’s long since disbanded. Um, but Eli Sullivan, Billie Jacobs are still here. 

[00:23:20] Um, Justine, I think she’s going to come in, just.

[00:23:24] Marc Gonyea: She’s coming in on Thursday, tomorrow.

[00:23:26] Curtis Giles: Yup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But everybody had a different style. And so, you know, it was like, it was persistence for, you know, Eli’s product knowledge or things like that. And so, I would just try to pick up where I could.

[00:23:40] You know, always thought you want to be, like, the dumbest person in the room more means just be a sponge and just pick up everything from everyone else. And also, Rob’s call break downs is great because you go in, and you’d be like, “I thought that was a pretty good call.” You bring your best call, and then you walk out and you’re like, “All right.”

[00:23:56] Chris Corcoran: Let me kind of rework the whole thing. 

[00:23:59] Curtis Giles: Go back. 

[00:24:01] Chris Corcoran: You can’t do that from your house. So, what was yours, you know, you say Billy’s persistence, Eli’s product knowledge. What was your go-to that you really try to pride yourself on, your superpower? Giles county superpower? 

[00:24:14] Curtis Giles: I don’t know. I did a couple of, like, tricks up my sleeve.

[00:24:17] They ended up being like.

[00:24:18] Chris Corcoran: David Copperfield.

[00:24:21] Curtis Giles: I mean, on the phones, it’s hard to think of, but there were some things that came out, like they ended up being a Curtis special.

[00:24:27] Marc Gonyea: Of course.

[00:24:31] Curtis Giles: If I’m not mistaken, it’s still being used today. So, something that when I was on PPM team, there was, uh, this, this email that, uh, my manager, Grant Johnson, can I come up with it, reworded it and kind of, like, took it to my own. But it was basically like, if someone’s going to ghost you that this email will, let’s say 70% of the time, get them to show up to the meeting.

[00:24:53] And so, that, that’s invaluable as an SDR. That’s what you’re getting measured on. That’s what clients want. Yep. Um, and so, that circle. And I would say that was my, my secret sauce. Um, I don’t know if I’m willing to publish it on the air.

[00:25:04] Marc Gonyea: You don’t need to, listen to it. 

[00:25:07] Chris Corcoran: I mean, a magician never shows his tricks.

[00:25:10] Marc Gonyea: So, Curtis ran like, he was here for 15 months. He was a star participant. So, let’s, but let’s walk through just the, let’s go back to that. So, you had, uh, a deep crew of people you were learning from. 

[00:25:22] When did you kind of know you were on Form 1, client who’d been with us prior, but you gotta learn how to do this stuff in the, in the COVID environment.

[00:25:32] What, what did you think you’re wanting to do when you were in that first quarter of working here? Because, you know, the program is about getting good at the shop, but also helping you get to where you wanted to go. So, were you looking at other things?

[00:25:45] Curtis Giles: Um, yeah, I mean, I think I, there was an email that went out about AE team.

[00:25:50] No, I think I sent an email back, said, “Hey, I’m interested in, like, month, two.” So, I figured it was good and just put my name out there early. So, that, that was a goal. Uh, and then beyond that, I was just looking to, like, hone my skills as much as possible. I knew the right opportunities to come later on. So, just kind of do well where I could.

[00:26:09] But yeah, I mean, getting into a closing role was always the goal and thought about. Um, management, I want to say about, like, six months in, yeah, opportunity came up. Um, and I just kinda realized, the one barometer ,and we always hear it is, “Does your, do you get more excited for someone else, like, being successful than yourself?”

[00:26:27] Curtis Giles: And I kind of always liked just like persevering through, um, I’m not sure independent, but on my own being like, “Hey, I did this.” Um, and always loved helping people too, but kinda just realize that manager wasn’t for me. Um, and then, shortly thereafter that I went to, went to PPM. Uh, more for the long-term, like career exposure.

[00:26:44] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. Talk about that. So, you were at Form when you were on fixed, fixed price work. Was it just exclusively Form 1? Okay, so you tell the listeners essentially what is Form 1? 

[00:26:53] Curtis Giles: Yeah, it was a, they’re a digital marketing agency for, for non-profits. 

[00:26:57] Chris Corcoran: Okay. 

[00:26:58] Curtis Giles: Um, government work, uh, but they got basically calling marketing folks at different non-profit organizations.

[00:27:05] Chris Corcoran: Okay. And you did that for how long? 

[00:27:06] Curtis Giles: Seven months.

[00:27:07] Chris Corcoran: Seven months, and then you moved to kind of our paper meeting team where it’s essentially a hundred percent performance-based, and you did that to get exposed to different technologies and, and, and was there the, was the earning opportunity in other?

[00:27:21] Curtis Giles: Yeah.

[00:27:22] Chris Corcoran: Okay. So, talk about which clients you focused on and the differences between the two.

[00:27:26] Marc Gonyea: Tell us why the tech part, well, just tell us why the tech part, why you said, “I want to expose other technologies.” Why was that part important to you? 

[00:27:34] Curtis Giles: Well, so, beyond, like, the people here, I think that the second biggest opportunity is the ability to work on different clients. And that’s what kind of appealed to me about, about the job in the first place was, it was just like, “Hey, you can work for a company, like be really specific in that product and be good at it. If you go somewhere else, it’s different. Here you’ll learn how to sell, in general.”

[00:27:55] And so, I always thought that was, like, the most, most important thing. And so, PPM was an opportunity to learn different technologies and figure out where, what am I want to sell later on? Yep. Uh, and then, also say like, “Hey, I can pick up whatever, go wherever.” 

[00:28:09] Marc Gonyea: Chris, why don’t more people think that way? Now, there’s, some people are afraid of the PPM life.

[00:28:15] I dunno. Or what about, like, being the second biggest thing, seeing the tech and the opportunity to see what you might want to do later on, I mean, thinking in the future. Like, the Insta world, right?

[00:28:33] Curtis Giles: You gotta, yeah. You gotta have your longterm term goals. So, I, luckily I spent a lot of time thinking about that while I was going through.

[00:28:40] Marc Gonyea: Why? 

[00:28:41] Curtis Giles: Because I said, “All right, if I’m going to go here, it’s going to be 15 months. Um, I better make sure that when I come out of it, I’m exactly where I want to be.” Is, it didn’t feel like a risk. And so, I wanted to make sure that, you know, on the other side, I had all the credentials and skills and what’s the word I’m looking for, I don’t know, sales acumen to, to come around. 

[00:29:08] Chris Corcoran: A little bit of my mission to get up a little, my initial here. Right. So, what technologies were you exposed to?

[00:29:16] Curtis Giles: Uh, there was a lot. So, my first client, uh, was a cybersecurity company. Um, and it was a small startup that they had, they had a pretty good product. Um, and so, I remember hopping on DM Logan and, like, waiting to get on a flight down to DC.

[00:29:35] My week down there with, with, with PPM and, like, learning about the cybersecurity thing, I was like, “All right, this is cool. This is cool. Like, you know, just graduated college, but I’m like, “I’m going on a business trip.” It was exciting.

[00:29:49] Marc Gonyea: It was a big deal. I mean, I get to talk with you too much, just briefly when you were down there, when someone’s coming down from another office to do, roll out PPM for a week, it’s a big deal.

[00:29:59] Chris Corcoran: It is a big deal.

[00:29:59] Marc Gonyea: That’s baller in the house. 

[00:30:01] Chris Corcoran: It is. So, you say you got cyber. What else did you get exposed to?

[00:30:04] Curtis Giles: Um, there was HR software. One of the big ones that I did allow was financial software. ‘Cause I had FinTech. Yeah, a little bit of the background there. There were some other, other cyber clients.

[00:30:17] I want to say it was like seven in total. Okay. Um, and even workplace safety, too. Um, and some sort of AI solution. 

[00:30:24] Chris Corcoran: And one thing, I think, I think it’s smart to get exposed to the different technologies. Absolutely. Because when else can you do that in a, in a 15 months journey, get exposed to all those different technologies.

[00:31:30] That’s very important. What’s also as, what, what’s also important is you get exposed to those different sales cultures. So, you can see what sales culture is important to you, what leadership’s important to you, what technology is important to you so that when you’re leaving, getting the next job, you know what to look for.

[00:31:51] Marc Gonyea: Would it get to that? He’s got a four-point philosophy on that idea. 

[00:31:54] For you? Totally, totally cracked. Yeah. Right? 

[00:31:56] Curtis Giles: Yup. 

[00:31:57] Marc Gonyea: That’s what people should be, hopefully, keep in mind. 

[00:32:00] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Um, this is, yeah, this is good, and it guided me the whole way. Um, who know this, this philosophy kind of guiding me through, but yeah, to, to the different clients at different sales cultures, I would always pay attention to my reps and, and kind of how they left the call.

[00:32:15] So you could tell, like, who’s a good rep and is a bad rep and some of the things that they do, you can, like, pick them up. And so, some of the better reps I like still do some of the things that data is like, okay. 

[00:32:25] Marc Gonyea: Like what?

[00:32:26] Curtis Giles: Well, always setting next steps. I just noticed one guy who would be two minutes into the call, and he’d already be talking about the next step after that, it would be kind of planting the seed.

[00:32:34] Like, “Hey, after this, typically what we do is like X, Y, and working to get him to get into this.” Others were just, you know, very professional and would take any, would take any meeting, you know, they said, “Hey, I don’t, I don’t care. Bring me whatever you can, um, because anything’s going to help. And I know you’re out there, like, grinded on the phones, um, as it’d be appreciated of that.”

[00:32:56] But the, the philosophy for choosing a new company kind of just came about, I don’t know, I’m just paying attention to where people went and what was going on. And it’s number one, you have to sell a good product, something that you like, that people need because if you don’t like the product or don’t believe in it, you’re just not gonna be able to do it.

[00:33:14] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. I want to make you talk to real quick. Well, that’s, that’s point number one, right? 

[00:33:18] Curtis Giles: Yeah. This is.

[00:33:19] Marc Gonyea: We’ll call you, we’ll get to that.

[00:33:20] Curtis Giles: Sure. 

[00:33:21] Marc Gonyea: I just want to aluminate a couple of things. I mean, you’re literally just, you know, the, he said the sponge thing, you talked about learning from the people who work here with him.

[00:33:28] Curtis Giles: Yeah. 

[00:33:28] Marc Gonyea: He’s talking about ruling from the tech and then, you know, yes, if you go to another company, you’re going to work with reps, but you got to work with reps across the different comp, different industries, different companies in tech, people who sell some tech are different than people who sell other tech. And you pick up varying degrees of professionalism or lack thereof or game. 

[00:33:50] So, I mean, you are the student. 

[00:33:54] Curtis Giles: You gotta be, you gotta be soaking up all the knowledge you can.

[00:33:56] Marc Gonyea: Taking it all in. So, you’re on the PPM team, doing your thing. You also took the 3K trip, right? Where did you go?

[00:34:03] Curtis Giles: I went to Miami.

[00:34:04] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:34:05] Curtis Giles: I went to a festival over there.

[00:34:07] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. So curse take advantage of the old program.

[00:34:10] Curtis Giles: But the tops twice.

[00:34:11] Marc Gonyea: So I had to tops twice.

[00:34:13] Chris Corcoran: Checked off all the boxes, business trips, tops twice, 3K holiday PPM. 

[00:34:23] Marc Gonyea: PPM.

[00:34:23] Curtis Giles: Took advantage of everything that was here. It’s. 

[00:34:27] Chris Corcoran: Had cold clients come after ya? Yeah, we haven’t talked about that. Let’s talk about that.

[00:34:32] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Yeah, I had, Form 1, I guess, make an offer, uh, in, I guess January, it was about six, six months in, um, and that one just wasn’t the right product.

[00:34:46] I wanted to be somewhere highly technical. And I do love the non-profit space, but just wasn’t great opportunity for me. Uh, as that almost propelled me to go to PPM, I was like, “Okay, I’ve done what I can here.” And, you know, move on to the next thing, proving that I can do it. Um, challenge myself. And then, um, it was the very first client that I got on PPM after that because I was, you know, it was the first one that was almost full timing.

[00:35:10] It was all the other ones. Um, and they, got them some really good meetings. Um, there was a, like a fortune five or two in there.

[00:35:19] Marc Gonyea: Who were they, do you remember the client?

[00:35:21] Curtis Giles: Uh, yeah. Pro, Reflectiz. Okay. Yep. They were an Israeli-based cybersecurity company. 

[00:35:29] Marc Gonyea: Hard to please sometimes cyber startups.

[00:35:33] Curtis Giles: Yup. Yeah, they’re tough. I mean, they had a really good product, too. Um, it was very specific in the cybersecurity spaces, so 70-ish, but it ended up getting really close with the rep. Uh, he was really good guy, and they said they had an opportunity like open sounded like the right thing. Um, everything was, looked good. Um, and then, it just didn’t line up to my expectations for what I wanted to do.

[00:35:58] Marc Gonyea: But, Curtis, why did you want cyber so hard? Why do you want to be on cyber as an SDR? Is that the people are kind of mean they don’t pick up? They’re so skeptical. I want to be on an easier account.

[00:36:08] Curtis Giles: I don’t know. You got to train in the trenches. 

[00:36:10] Marc Gonyea: Why?

[00:36:11] Curtis Giles: How are you going to get better? It’s also cyber can be fun, there’s a lot of money in it.

[00:36:17] And the complexity, it will never get boring. There’s always going to be something that you hear, that you have no clue what it’s about. So, you can learn from it a lot. 

[00:36:24] Marc Gonyea: So, you actually want to be on a separate client. 

[00:36:26] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Thought it was good exposure to have. Because I always did like the more technical clients because I feel like, you know, you can change sales.

[00:36:36] The average rep can do that and be good at it, but to also have, like, a technical proficiency, not everybody can do that. And so, you’re almost like, you know, putting yourself in a different category. And so, when it’s not somebody that not everybody can do, you might as well get good at it. And then, um, it also opens up doors and conversations.

[00:36:56] If you understand the product and what it’s doing you can talk technically and be like, “Well, actually, I think we can solve this problem that you’re having.” Versus, just generalized broad questioning. Don’t make sense. 

[00:37:08] Marc Gonyea: Makes sense. So, you’re doing, so, graciously, you know, decided you I’ll keep working with the clamp and didn’t want to go work there, which is, which is clearly an option, for you and for the client, meaning you accepting or turning them down or you, you kind of figuring out what you wanted to do.

[00:37:25] So did, did it crystallize kind of where you wanted to go next? Is this because now you’re on the PPM team, so you’ve got to fix the client and want to convert you, respectfully declined. All good. So, client to this day, PPM client respectfully declined. And then, where was your mindset at this point? 

[00:37:44] Curtis Giles: Yeah, so, at that point, um, I was, I mean, I was always thinking about this timeline, so, you know, six months, uh, remember, in October is my, my free agency.

[00:37:55] Um, so I was like, all right, either want to go, but now I’m more, I’m just going to stand PPM to the end up continuous exposure.

[00:38:05] Um, and I think because I joined PPM recently, it didn’t make sense to, to join another team. Yup. And so, from there, just kept grinding and, you know, that was a good summer, definitely. Miami and then tops and whatnot and working different clients.

[00:38:22] Um, so, yes, that’s what, that’s what I stuck with. 

[00:38:25] Marc Gonyea: And you rolled on the, on the rise and starts? Can you tell folks who are listening to what rises? We’re talking about lot of things, 3K holidays, the trip you can take the two related, you cumulated some tenures, tops our president’s, club trips that SDRs and DMS and other parts of the business can go on.

[00:38:41] Marc Gonyea: Rising stars is a program that we believe helps position people who are coming out of the company, a high probability of success here, free agent. Right, but you, can you describe it? Why am I describing it?

[00:38:52] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, basically once you hit your 15 months of tenure, actually before that, um, one of the recruiters at memoryBlue will basically work for you, almost on retainer and say, “Hey, what kinda opportunities do you want?”

[00:39:06] Surface them, set up interviews and basically lie to evaluate a lot of different offers, uh, which is very, very appealing. 

[00:39:15] Marc Gonyea: Let’s talk about that. Okay. Is my favorite part, Curtis and the four points? 

[00:39:21] So, there are a lot of SDRs for whatever reason, sometimes it’s right, sometimes it’s wrong. They take the first thing that kind of rolls their way. Yeah. The client or an opportunity. Why, why, why do you think that is? Like, what, what, why are people kind of hopping on the first, the first train? 

[00:39:43] Marc Gonyea: It’s always the wrong 

[00:39:44] Marc Gonyea: thing, but I’m more for the night. I would say wouldn’t. 

[00:39:48] Curtis Giles: Yeah, when it’s the wrong opportunity. I don’t know if it’s the right term, but hopping out of the frying pan into the fire, you gotta be able to think long-term.

[00:40:03] So, it’s like, if you’re, if you’re going to be at memoryBlue this long and then, or you’re going to take this client off, for now, I will think further than that, it’d be like three years ahead. It’s like, “Where are you going to be if you had stayed at memoryBlue and then found a different opportunity?” There’s also just way more options.

[00:40:19] If you see it through, do the right thing. And there definitely are good client offers that come in. But, of course, you just want options because you can pit offers against each other, really get a feeling for it. Um, and you’ll just be way better off.

[00:40:32] Chris Corcoran: You will. This is, for the record, this is my advice. If you get a client offer, hold that offer.

[00:40:41] Get to your 15-month process. Uh, evaluate the market. And if that, if that client offer turns out to be the strongest offer that you want, accept it at that point.

[00:40:54] Curtis Giles: They’ll take you back. 

[00:40:55] Chris Corcoran: Absolutely, take you back yet. 

[00:40:58] Marc Gonyea: Always, and then will be upset by it.

[00:41:03] Chris Corcoran: No, because they know that at that point, they know that you a hundred percent want to be there because you’ve seen the market and you can compare it to other things.

[00:41:12] So, you took, you took the right approach. Yeah. You took the absolute right approach. And so, you got to, you got all the exposure, you got to the rising star’s process. Hopefully, you got to see more things than what you would have seen had you not gone that, through that process. What, what happened? 

[00:41:30] Curtis Giles: Uh, yeah, so I’d gone to, I think Joey Bones, uh, by a recruiter and, um, he hit me up a month before and, “Hey, what are you looking for?”

[00:41:42] I said, “Hey, I’m actually probably gonna be getting a lot of, like, outbound looking out and trying to find what an opportunity. Um, these are the things that I’m looking for, and I can elaborate on them. The four points.” 

[00:41:54] Marc Gonyea: Laid out for us, please. Break it down, Curtis, testify. 

[00:41:57] Curtis Giles: Yeah. The, as I mentioned before, the first one is product.

[00:42:01] It has to be a good product. It has to be something that you like and sales is hard enough. So, if you don’t think what you’re selling is good, you’re not going to be able to do it. Uh, the second is growth path. “Where am I going to be if I take this opportunity, what kind of resources that they have for training, um, are the people there better than me?” Because that’s good because then you can just learn more.

[00:42:23] Um, and then, the third is the, the leadership and culture there. Uh, especially if you’re looking to startups. So, know a lot of the opportunities out there, startups. Yep. Uh, I would say more than, I guess, more established companies. Uh, and so, it’s a little harder to gauge, but the most important thing there is look at who is in leadership now, what have they done before, where are they going.

[00:42:43] And then, the fourth point is kind of like an addendum because it’s a given, you should definitely not take anything that doesn’t align with your compensation goals and kind of know your worth. Uh, at the end of memoryBlue, say, “Hey, I’ve worked on…” You worked at least two clients on your tenure. Um, and you’ve done some things.

[00:43:00] You probably mentored some people. So, you know, and you’ve made a lot of calls. So, think about that.

[00:43:07] Marc Gonyea: Know your worth. Let’s go back to the leadership part ’cause you, you and I know this, but when you said leadership and look them up, people, you said leadership matters. What, what do you look at in them, what they’ve done before? Why do you look at that? 

[00:43:19] Curtis Giles: because startups are mostly determined, not by the product or service that they offer, but by the leadership and how dedicated that those people are. There was a study done on it. I dunno why it works that way, but it is. And so, I looked at, I mean, from a current opportunity, current job.

[00:43:37] I looked at, uh, the old companies that people had worked at. Um, and it was like the VP of customer experience was coming on and had taken this company, New Relic from 50 employees to, like, 2000. 

[00:43:49] Chris Corcoran: Wow. 

[00:43:49] Curtis Giles: New Relic came in to stay. But, other people in the company, same thing, they just worked at different companies.

[00:43:55] The director of sales had worked, worked for a company, small startup, ended up going big enough to be acquired by SAP. He, he got the edge to, I want to come back to the startup world, came back, came over to my current company. And so, those are the things I was asking in interviews. Like, “Why’d you come over here? What’s the difference?” Um, yeah, the leadership is so important because otherwise, it’s too hard to judge. 

[00:44:16] Marc Gonyea: What was the last one? I’m sorry, I crossed over that. I mean, you, you did it, but I was, I wanted you to go back to the leadership one. What was the last oh, know your worth, right?

[00:44:24] Curtis Giles: Yeah.

[00:44:25] Marc Gonyea: And how do you really know what your worth is, in the market?

[00:44:29] Curtis Giles: I mean, I always have that wouldn’t take the low, and you can talk to other people and just cut. It is pretty easy to just say, “Hey,” no people who got offers, like people will tell you, it’s like, “Hey, you’ve been telling me, I’m, like, looking for a position. I want to make sure I’m in the right place for this.”

[00:44:44] Um, just ask around and don’t be afraid to say no. That was, so. That was what, what had happened with, with my, um, the second time a client tried to offer me, I was kind of like all sunshine and roses. Uh, and then I got my offer letter and it just wasn’t what they had said. And so, that’s something also to be aware, I was redrawn for letters, don’t sign anything, make sure you know what’s, what’s going on there.

[00:45:10] It was a tough thing to do, but it was like, well, you know, this isn’t, this changes the whole matrix of how I’m looking at it.

[00:45:16] Marc Gonyea: And you were out there looking for a gig with Bones, what Bones had going on. 

[00:45:22] You’re still working your clients, and then you’re doing your own outbound work. 

[00:45:27] The final gig.

[00:45:28] Curtis Giles: Yeah. 

[00:45:29] Marc Gonyea: And how were you doing that?

[00:45:32] Curtis Giles: I would just find cool companies that I thought had really neat products. Um, mostly startups. I think a couple of them, I just messaged the CEO said, “Hey, I’m, I have interesting kind of preposition, look at, let me know if you need salespeople. I’ll be open to talking like after.” 

[00:45:49] Marc Gonyea: So, you kind of did an outbound campaign for yourself. You’d reach at the CEO’s on LinkedIn?

[00:45:54] Curtis Giles: Yep. Yep. 

[00:45:55] Marc Gonyea: And kind of like they knew they could look at your LinkedIn profile, see what you’re doing at memoryBlue. 

[00:45:59] Curtis Giles: Yep. 

[00:46:00] Marc Gonyea: “Hey, this is what I’m doing,” just because you know the right environment. 

[00:46:04] Curtis Giles: Um, I’ve done that for a couple of companies, but I didn’t have to go that far.

[00:46:08] I was ready to stay for the right opportunity. I was ready to hang out as long as I needed to. Um, but the right one ended up coming to me.

[00:46:14] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. So, and so, you’re doing all these things and then you get an inbound. 

[00:46:18] Chris Corcoran: Oh, you got an inbound. Yeah. You got an inbound. So, you were doing it. So, you were doing, you were doing your own outbond, you do everything.

[00:46:25] You, you, you doing your own outbound, you had Bones working for ya. 

[00:46:30] Curtis Giles: Yep. 

[00:46:31] Chris Corcoran: And then, you were also were patient. You got an inbound. 

[00:46:35] Curtis Giles: Yeah. 

[00:46:36] Chris Corcoran: Wow. 

[00:46:36] Curtis Giles: Had it all, had the LinkedIn open, uh, ready to go. So, I mean, I’d been connecting with people and, like, had conversations, um, you know, with different, different recruiters, like along the way, you’re just like, “Okay, what is this?

[00:46:49] What are you doing? Tell me more about it.” Um, but it’s, what’s that phrase? It’s like the harder I work, the luckier I get. It was a matter of like, I find the right opportunity, but you also have to be in the right position to take that. So, um, they came out along with the right time and also at a time where their company, where they were looking to fill a position and I was, just the timing was perfect.

[00:47:11] And then, so much of life is timing. Um, there was a lot of many jump right into, to a closing role and work really complex technology. Yeah. So, it was, it was awesome. 

[00:47:22] Marc Gonyea: So, you, inbound came in, you ran them through the four points. Uh, you ran through your matrix, and you decide, decided to do it why? Just tell us a little bit, this take into what you’re doing now, where you’re working.

[00:47:34] Curtis Giles: Yeah. So, working at Ambassador Labs. Um, they provide software development tools for Kubernetes.

[00:47:41] Marc Gonyea: What’s a Kubernete? 

[00:47:43] Curtis Giles: It’s a Rubik’s cube I can get. And it’s, you know, people always ask me and it’s like, there’s a couple layers, a Google software that allows applications to be more resilient.

[00:47:54] Marc Gonyea: Okay. 

[00:47:55] Curtis Giles: And so, it’s a really complex and very hard to use.

[00:47:58] And so, we provide tools to make that easier and it’s growing and, you know, there was just a, it was online at 4:00 AM last week for Kubernetes convention in Europe, last week. 

[00:48:07] Marc Gonyea: Excellent. 

[00:48:07] Curtis Giles: So, it’s grown all over the globe. And so, that’s one of the reasons why I liked it is the technology is still kind of early stage, but it’s about to hit that, like, massive adoption crossing the chasm.

[00:48:18] Marc Gonyea:  Crossing the chasm.

[00:48:19] Curtis Giles: Yep. Um, yeah, I mean, I’m happy to talk more about, like, what led me to go there. What are the questions I was asking both? 

[00:48:30] Marc Gonyea: What led you to go there and what are you doing now?

[00:48:33] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Um, it was so, yeah, it was, as I said before, you know, where, where people would come from, I liked that it was a complex technology.

[00:48:42] It was growing, uh, as far as career-wise, I was going right into a closing role. Um, yeah, really everything lined up. Um, and so, now, uh, there’s like a little bit of account management with it. Um, but basically, I’m talking to people all over the globe, um, say, “Hey, what are you doing? Learning more and more about the technology.”

[00:49:01] Um, as a common thing, just like soaking up what I can about this. Then, I know the right questions to ask. Um, and growing with the team, has been a lot of growth of the company, a lot of changes that I’ve been able to witness, which is kind of awesome about a startup. 

[00:49:15] Chris Corcoran: So, who are you selling to?

[00:49:17] Software developers? 

[00:49:19] Curtis Giles: Yeah, developer operations. Um, so, I think it’s kind of funny, but CTO loves sneak, and I know they were their client and now they have billboards out around Boston. Um, so, that kind of same, same persona, um, so, dev ops people, some, like, higher up technology folks, but basically the guys who set up the infrastructure for the rest of the developers, right at the company.

[00:49:40] Chris Corcoran: I see. Okay. And, uh, are you getting most of your opportunities inbound or outbound or mixed between the two? 

[00:49:49] Curtis Giles: So, when I started, it was, it was in email me on SDR uh, it’s just a flow. Um, so, that’s why I said it’s been great to see all the changes. 

[00:49:56] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. 

[00:49:56] Curtis Giles: And since then we’ve had a number of different lead flows.

[00:50:00] And so, it’s been like, basically, just more, more opportunities generated. So, um, we’ll do some, some outbound for campaigns, um, and, and getting back on the phones now. So, yeah, it’s about 60, 40, probably.

[00:50:16] Chris Corcoran: 60, 40 inbound, 

[00:50:18] Curtis Giles: 6% inbound. 

[00:50:19] Chris Corcoran: And, and, and then you also have an SDR? Can you share that with other AEs?

[00:50:24] Curtis Giles: Yep.

[00:50:25] Chris Corcoran:  Okay. That’s great. So, having been an SDR, now, it’s you get to be on the receiving end of that gift. 

[00:50:32] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Very grateful for it. Yeah. Yeah. It’s nice to see a pop on your calendar, but yeah, it’s been good to see the changes because I can capitalize on some of the skills that I had before. I remember talking to Robin about it.

[00:50:46] It’s like, “Hey, we have a very specific skillset. You probably want to use it and address it.” And top performers always do a little bit outbound with what they’re doing, no matter what’s coming their way. 

[00:50:56] Chris Corcoran: You never know what you can uncover. 

[00:50:59] Okay. Find out if that’s right. That’s right. 

[00:51:04] Marc Gonyea: So, now that you’re in a closing role, what’s important in a manager, that you look for different than, like, when you, you know, or how’s the same as having a Delivery Manager or Sales Development Manager? 

[00:51:16] Curtis Giles: I’d say the similarity, um, is, like, just proficiency. Like, a good SDR makes a good manager.

[00:51:26] And my, my management now is very good because they’re hands-on and they’re in on the calls with you and, like, know how to approach things, um, versus a more hands-off approach. So, that’s, it saves one thing similarity. Um, other than that, it’s just a, it’s just a different role. I understand the whole 15 months thing, it’s, you know, it’s a lot different than the other, making your calls 8:30 to 10 and then 3:30 to 4, 5.

[00:51:52] It’s like, you gotta, you gotta be able, there’s a lot of different, more different things to do, um, than just generate meetings, now.

[00:51:58] Marc Gonyea: Going back to what Chris was mentioning earlier, is this role, this closing role more difficult than you thought it would be? ‘Cause you’re still transitioning, right? Is it easy? Is it harder? Is it easier? In what ways? 

[00:52:10] Curtis Giles: Yeah, definitely more difficult than I thought it would be, I’d say.

[00:52:13] Marc Gonyea: In what ways it’s hard to say?

[00:52:15] Curtis Giles: It’s hard to bring new business. And I feel like to me, ’cause, 

[00:52:18] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, you know, people who are SDRs like, “Oh, I think this is the hardest job ever.” And we talk about, well, the next jobs. 

[00:52:26] Curtis Giles: It’s their responsibility, too.

[00:52:28] It’s like carrying the number and especially, you know, there’s a, we have three reps, and it’s not, you’re just nowhere to hide, nowhere to hide. Yeah. This is where I’m at. Um, yeah, just a little more, a lot more complexity. SDR, you can kind of, like, get your meetings, like, sign off the other day, but especially playing in international waters kind of chases you around sometimes.

[00:52:51] Chris Corcoran: Yeah.

[00:52:52] Curtis Giles: I definitely am glad that I jumped right into it. 

[00:52:54] Chris Corcoran: I bet. 

[00:52:55] Curtis Giles: Yeah.

[00:52:56] Chris Corcoran: Did you ever consider going to work at a big, big-name company? It sounds like you liked the startup. 

[00:53:02] Curtis Giles: Yeah, I thought about it. ‘Cause I thought it might be a better training environment and to, like, learn, um, right off the bat. Um, so I thought about, I think this opportunity just came up, and it checks a lot of boxes.

[00:53:16] Um, if that’s the kind of ideas you could do that for, that was my day. You could do that for, like, a couple of years and then go to a startup and take that expertise that you have there. Or you could go to a startup where things are changing, and it’s like, you’re, you’re also learning a lot. It can be kind of hard.

[00:53:31] And then, um, take that and just go to another startup later on. Right. I think if you start at the big company, I’m not sure you go up there unless you build it yourself. Yeah.

[00:53:44] Marc Gonyea: It’s interesting. This is a topic for another day, but I don’t see as much the big company folks coming down to the emerging companies. You don’t see that.

[00:53:54] Chris Corcoran: Normally, it’s pretty quick cup of coffee. 

[00:53:57] Marc Gonyea: Normally, it’s like, “Yeah, I’m here for a snack and going back to the big company world.” And then, it, so, I think it’s at that, I think I like your path better. It’s harder. It’s harder. And you got used to it being hard in an emerging tech space.

[00:54:15] It’s no disrespect to people who work at the big companies, but until the different we’re kind of splunk, right? It’s a household name and, you know, in tech, Oracle or EMC, you be great companies, for sure.

[00:54:28] Great technology, but it’s good to see your path you’ve chosen. 

[00:54:34] Curtis Giles: Yeah, I think there’s these startup items. I think certain people just love it. I mean, I know that the people that I work with all have gotten the edge before. And so, they’re just like in that. So, now I see myself in the future. Like, I could just, you know, doing it again and again and 

[00:54:49] building out a sales program, seeing the sales program, being prioritized, um, I mean, at the end of the day you have any company of your sales and your engineering, everything else is, like, in, at least in technology, everything else has kind of peripheral.

[00:55:02] What do you have and how do you get it out to people. And so, I didn’t get it out and setting it up. 

[00:55:08] Marc Gonyea: What, so, Curtis kind of get close to wrapping up what this is. I’m still in a, some Chris w what do you, you obviously will read. What do you do to keep your skills sharp or how, how you educating yourself in sales and, you know, in a tech, I’m curious about the sales side of the house?

[00:55:25] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Um, I used to do a lot of like cross-training with, like, learning about psychology. Um, things like that. Um, nowadays, professionally, I just like lean on, like, the other reps and managers, and sometimes it’ll just go into our CRM and just like, “Oh, he’s working to deal with, like, this huge bank. It looks like it’s just closed for a lot.

[00:55:50] I want to go see what the paper trail is, what kind of happened there, maybe go back and watch the meetings, see, like, how, how has approached.”

[00:55:57] Chris Corcoran: Your forensic workpiece and the piece in the deal together. Right. 

[00:56:01] And watch the meetings and what, like in gone or something like that?

[00:56:04] Curtis Giles: Yeah. Chorus. But, yeah, I watched the meetings like, “Okay, this is how.” Um, it’s how it kind of went.

[00:56:10] It’s the process of what they said in the beginning, uh, which I think is a big thing. And then, this is where it is now. 

[00:56:16] Marc Gonyea: Why is that a big thing?

[00:56:18] Curtis Giles: Well, because SDR, it’s your job to, like, figure out how real deal is or what is going to happen and then move through it. And so, I remember this one deal. It was for a huge bank.

[00:56:28] I’m still not even sure it’s been closed. It may come down this week. Um, but I went back and listened to the first meeting, and they were like, “Yeah, we’ve already chosen it. You’re the technical vendor. We have another team is using it. We want to buy it right now. This is very informal. Like, let’s, let’s get it going.”

[00:56:42] But that was like two months ago. So, I don’t know if it’s a matter of, like, slow procurement or, you know, disillusions about software development, life cycle timelines. Yeah. But maybe the person saying that wasn’t the person who actually get it done. You never know. Find the right person there.

[00:57:01] Chris Corcoran: Uh, any, any podcasts or books that you recommend for people thinking about becoming a tech sales professional? 

[00:57:09] Curtis Giles: I always liked entrepreneurship. Um, don’t know how relevant is it to sales specifically, but XXXXXXXXXX? That’s very good book. Probably one of my favorites. And then, as far as podcasts, I mean this one.

[00:57:28] Chris Corcoran: Well, they get to hear you break it down.

[00:57:30] Curtis Giles: Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, you’re doing the job, and you’re talking to, listen to people who’ve done the job successfully. So, if you’re going to come in and show up, you may as well do it right. It’s coming same thing as going to the office. 

[00:57:42] Marc Gonyea: I mean, Curtis has worked it when he was here, right?

[00:57:47] Yeah. You’ve worked it in the pandemic. Kicking off from your house, work in cyber, moving over to PPM, turned down clients. 

[00:58:00] Chris Corcoran: Running his own process. Leveraging the rising stars.

[00:58:04] Marc Gonyea: Going outbound. Yeah. It, deliberate and intentional. I mean, we’ve got a lot of good podcasts. I wouldn’t, this almost has to mandatory for, for SDRs because people can’t, it’s hard for people to resist the urge of the first thing.

[00:58:26] Curtis Giles: FOMO. 

[00:58:27] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. In that concept. I’ve talked about that before, so, you’re good. This is a good client. They’ll still be there. Yeah. It’s most likely in your best interest to see things from a little bit.

[00:58:41] Curtis Giles: Yeah. 

[00:58:42] Marc Gonyea: We’re not talking about years talking about a couple quarters. 

[00:58:48] Curtis Giles: There’ll be there, too. Every time that it will be there every time.

[00:58:51] And if it’s not been, maybe it wasn’t it.

[00:58:53] Marc Gonyea: How big are you so sure? You haven’t done the four points, right? 

[00:58:59] The CG, the four CGs. Like, let’s talk those things through, but something like, 

[00:59:05] I think it’s a fear. It’s FOMO. It’s fear of something. So, this is, Curtis has been great, man.

[00:59:10] Chris Corcoran: And lots of wisdom. Thanks for listening.

[00:59:15] So to you guys, I mean, this is what we, this is what I always suggest people do. And it’s very refreshing to see when someone just maximizes the, takes the opportunity, because literally at this point, Curtis, we’ve had thousands of SDRs working at memoryBlue and not all of them maximize the opportunity.

[00:59:34] Some of them get some value along the way, most do, but you really, I think maximized the experience here. And so I want to thank you for doing that.

[00:59:43] Curtis Giles: I have to, open many more maximize it needs. It’s a good opportunity to try to get better. 

[00:59:50] Chris Corcoran: Very good. All right, Curtis. Well, thanks much, thanks a bunch of the wisdom.

[00:59:54] Curtis Giles: Of course, thank you, guys.