Episode 95: Marco Johnson  – Pinpointing The Pain Points

Take time to appreciate what you have. Staying humble keeps Marco Johnson at the top of his game. 

Now an Enterprise and Strategic Account Executive at Gainsight, Marco prioritizes quality over quantity. Don’t get bogged down in the technical minutia; instead, focus on finding the problems you can solve. 

In this episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers, Marco shares how to conquer the unique challenges of selling a service, time management rules to live by, and the three questions you need to be able to answer to close.  

Guest-At-A-Glance

💡 Name: Marco Johnson

💡 What he does: Marco is an enterprise and strategic account executive – PX East at Gainsight

💡 Company: Gainsight

💡 Noteworthy: Marco grew up in humble circumstances. Marco worked from an early age, and the first thing he learnt was that the more you work, the more you can earn. In the winter, he shoveled snow with his father to make some money. Later, once he’d grown up, he joined his father in landscaping. Marco quickly realized that he didn’t want to do that for the rest of his life and enrolled in college. He graduated from Towson University with a BBA in Marketing, and college was his introduction to sales.

💡 Where to find Marco: LinkedIn | Website

Key Insights

⚡ Learn from every person you meet. While working in different positions and with different teams, Marco realized that he’d learnt a lot over the years. As he points out, every person he talked to had a specific influence on him, that is, he learned something from everyone. “I’ve had great mentors in life who probably didn’t even know they were mentors to me. I’ve always tried to learn something from every single person I meet. Like, I could have an interaction with a homeless person on the side of the road, and I would be trying to learn something that I can use to better myself. And I hope that I can share something with other people. Just about everybody that I have worked with, I have tried to take something from them, and I’m not of the school of thought where it’s like, ‘I’m gonna take what the top performers are doing and just duplicate that.’ In my eyes, that caps me at, ‘As good as they are, that’s as good as I’ll ever be.'”

⚡ If you can sell services, you can sell anything. For the first six months at memoryBlue, Marco worked in the position of SDR, and just when he wanted to change companies, he received an offer to become an internal sales representative, which he accepted. As he says, it was the greatest decision of his sales career. “The experiences that I had selling something that people can’t physically touch — I don’t have slides; I don’t have an SC or an SE that’s coming to support me; there’s no demo. I remember people asking for slides, and I’m like, ‘What do we do?’ It was like you’re selling hopes and dreams at that point — like people just literally have to take your word at face value that you’re going to be able to deliver on what you say. And it was powerful; it was a powerful skill to learn. And I always told myself that the difficulties of selling services are a beast of their own, but using the skills that you take from that, you can sell anything in the world.”

⚡ Industry knowledge is important for an SDR. SDRs are inside sales representatives who focus exclusively on prospecting. And in order to be successful, they need certain skills. According to Marco, you don’t need to be too technical, but it’s crucial to show the potential customer that you understand the specific terminology related to him and his work; it is important to learn to speak his language. “I’ve seen a lot of people trying to get super technical or become product experts, but I think you need to have a fundamental understanding of the pain points that your prospect is facing and how your software or solution aligns to those pain points. And I genuinely think that sales is as simple as that, and the rest is, ‘Am I talking to the right person, and is this the right time?’ […] Be a student in the game, understand what different companies are investing in this year, next year, and within certain industries you’re targeting. Understand the pain points of your prospects and what’s important to them, and talk to them.” 

Episode Highlights

What Is Marco’s Superpower?

“It’s less a superpower, and it’s more of an understanding that there are people who would kill for the opportunity I have right now. That is one side of it. And the other side of it is that as accomplished as I feel I’ve been in certain areas of life, I’m nowhere in the grand scheme of things. And it’s not keeping up with the generalist-type deal, but it’s like there’s so much more growth that I can have. I’m a student of the game; I fall in love with the process. And I detach from the outcome. That’s not to say that I don’t get upset if I lose a deal — we all lose deals — but I’m not going to lose sleep over it because I can look back, and I know for a fact that I’ve done everything in my power to close that deal. And if it doesn’t close, I can’t lose; it’s out of my hands at that point.

Similarly, when I win a deal, I’m not going out and buying a Rolex just because I can; you just be humble: ‘I put the work in, and I got this, but this could be taken away tomorrow.'”

Marco’s Motivation in Career

“Early on, it was just ‘I wanna make as much money as humanly possible.’ And then I start seeing people get hired out and getting into closing roles, and I’m like, ‘Okay, well, I’ve only been doing this for a few months. I don’t know that I’m ready for a closing role, but I want to take those steps.’ I want to go down that path because, again, being money-motivated — so-and-so was able to buy X, Y, and Z or do this. And being the poor kid coming up, that was cool. It was cool to be able to do what you wanted. 

Coming to the present day now, it’s still money-motivated, but I enjoy helping people. But I’m a fond believer that people who say, ‘Money doesn’t buy happiness,’ have either never been poor or they don’t have money. Because I think money can buy you time and having the time to do the things you enjoy is the definition of happiness. So you’ve got to chase money, but if money’s the only thing that you’re looking for, it’s going to be cold, hard work because you get told ‘No’ a hell of a lot more than you get told ‘Yes.’”

Marco: Qualify Your Time

“There’s no shortage of money, but there’s a shortage of time. And we don’t know when that last second’s up. So it’s like, if I’m going to take time away from my wife, from my son, from my travels, I need to make sure that it’s a good use of my time., And I don’t want to waste your time either; so going back from that SDR mindset of throwing anybody in there. 

When I was first an AE, it was like, ‘Throwing every meeting on my calendar; I would talk to everybody.’ And I’m still that same way, but I try to qualify in and out as soon as possible. If you clear up your pipeline, you know what’s legit and what’s not.”

Transcript: 

[00:00:00] Marco Johnson: The tools that I learned here are things that I try and teach everybody that I work with, that works under me.

[00:00:06] Like, in my current company, I was on, like, day two and I created a slack channel that was just about pipeline generation, right? And I, like, throw all the other AEs in there. I’m like, “Any meetings you book, any conversations you get into, like, share all the notes here. Well, you know, share best practices.”

[00:00:19] Like, it’s, I’m always thinking about, you know, generating more pipeline, and that’s rooted here, man. Marco Johnson returning for an episode with us on the podcast. 

[00:01:16] Yeah, man. It’s great to be here. 

[00:01:17] Chris Corcoran: Great seeing you, Marco. I’m looking forward to catching up.

[00:01:19] Marco Johnson: Likewise, likewise. 

[00:01:21] Marc Gonyea: So, Marco, before we get into it, how long has it been? 

[00:01:25] Marco Johnson: I want to say almost seven years. I think it was July 7th, 2015, if my memory serves correctly. 

[00:01:31] Marc Gonyea: Well, when you started. 

[00:01:32] Marco Johnson: Correct. 

[00:01:32] Marc Gonyea: And then, you were with us for nearly three years. So, you’ve been gone for four, four years and three months?

[00:01:39] Yeah. Wow. Okay. All right. So, we got a lot to catching up.

[00:01:42] Marco Johnson: A lot, man. Yeah. 

[00:01:43] Marc Gonyea: All right. Well, before we catch up on it, this would be good for Chris and I, and for the audience, just tell us a little bit about yourself. Like where you’re from, where you grew up. We’ll kind of speed through childhood a little bit, but we’ll slow you down, speed you up.

[00:01:54] Marco Johnson: Cool. Cool. Yeah. So, I, I grew up right outside of DC, Montgomery County, Maryland, hopped all over. My parents were split, had very young parents. So, my, my dad lived on one side of the county, my mom lived on the other. So, a lot of my early years were, were right outside DC, which was cool.

[00:02:07] But then, the more formative years of my life were out in Western Maryland, in a small town Boonsboro, Maryland. Little farm town, maybe 2,500, 3000 people. A lot of blue-collar work, you know, not a lot of tech, you know, opportunities out there. But it was cool, you know. So, I, I played sports in high school, football, basketball, baseball, wrestled a little bit coming up.

[00:02:25] Marc Gonyea: Did you have a favorite?

[00:02:27] Marco Johnson: I always loved football.

[00:02:28] Marc Gonyea: Okay. 

[00:02:28] Marco Johnson: Yeah. Football was always fun. 

[00:02:29] Marc Gonyea: You like to inflict the pain?

[00:02:32] Marco Johnson: I like being humbled too, though. 

[00:02:34] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Like the humble. 

[00:02:35] Marco Johnson: It’s good to always know that there’s somebody bigger and better than you, out there. Otherwise, you get a little bit too confident.

[00:02:40] Marc Gonyea: Interesting. 

[00:02:41] Yeah. And then, when you were growing up, just talk to me about kind of, you’re in sales now.

[00:02:47] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:48] Marc Gonyea: At some point, before you kind of decided what you wanted to do, going to school, did the sales thing kind of pop up anyways somehow or? 

[00:02:56] Marco Johnson: So, I mean, sales popped up later in life, but, like, in hindsight, I was always exposed to it.

[00:03:01] So, my dad was in landscaping. He’s still in landscaping. 

[00:03:03] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:03] Marco Johnson: And I remember going with him while he’s doing estimates, right, and telling people what these jobs would cost. And, as a kid, you don’t realize like, “All right, well, he’s gonna tell ’em how much this project costs, but then he’s actually gotta convince them to go with his company.” you know?

[00:03:15] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:16] Marco Johnson: So, like, I never thought I had, you know, sales, you know, in my life coming up, but I, you know, hindsight I did with, with my dad. 

[00:03:23] Marc Gonyea: When did you realize that? Did you realize that, at a certain point, that, “My dad was kind of doing all these things, but also selling?” 

[00:03:28] Marco Johnson: Oh, I mean, not to get emotional, but when I had a kid, you know, when my son was born.

[00:03:31] Yeah. 

[00:03:32] Marc Gonyea: It’s funny, right, how it takes long.

[00:03:33] Marco Johnson: It’s wild.

[00:03:34] Marc Gonyea: We’re all in our little stupid world and…

[00:03:35] Marco Johnson: Yeah, man.

[00:03:36] Marc Gonyea: …things change as you mature. Then you’re like, “Shit.” 

[00:03:38] Marco Johnson: Yeah. And you start realizing, you know, why people do things and it’s just, yeah. 

[00:03:42] Marc Gonyea: How much of a badass he is, right?

[00:03:44] Marco Johnson: Oh, my pop is great. He’s great. If I can be half the man he is, I’ll do all right in life.

[00:03:49] Marc Gonyea: All right. I think you’re doing good so far, proud of you. All right. So, what about you, though? So, you saw that.

[00:03:54] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:03:54] Marc Gonyea: But, like, did anything with you or is it just the sports and?

[00:03:57] Marco Johnson: So, I, I grew up very humbly. Like I said, my mom was 15, 15, or 16. Excuse me. I think my dad was 17. 

[00:04:02] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Wow. 

[00:04:03] Marco Johnson: Mom dropped outta school. Dad got a job. My dad’s dad died when he was 15.

[00:04:07] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:08] Marco Johnson: My mom’s dad was a, a decorated war hero. So, like, you know, they were raised by, you know, imperfect parents as well, you know?

[00:04:15] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:15] Marco Johnson: And it’s, like, very humble beginnings. And, like, my earliest exposure was, you know, the harder you work, the more you can earn, the more you can make.

[00:04:22] Like, it was, it was always very blue-collar vision. Right? Like, “You want more money? Do more jobs.”

[00:04:26] Marc Gonyea: Yep. 

[00:04:27] Marco Johnson: So, like, from an early age, yeah, I would go around in, in, in the wintertime my dad’s company would shovel snow. So, like, I’d go shovel snow to make a little bit of money. When I was old enough, I would work landscaping with him in the summers.

[00:04:39] And thought I was making a ton, made a couple hundred bucks a week, and I’m like, “Oh, I’m loaded.” 17, 16 years old, whatever it’s. And then, you start to realize, on a hot summer day, like, “I don’t wanna do this for the rest of my life.” Right? So, it’s like not knocking it, it just, it wasn’t for me, you know? And I never knew where I wanted to go or what I wanted to do.

[00:04:55] I just knew it wasn’t specifically manual labor, you know?

[00:04:58] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. Go ahead. Keep going. Keep going. 

[00:05:00] I was gonna say in college is, is really like my introduction into sales. And… Did you, you were always gonna go to college?

[00:05:07] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:05:07] Marc Gonyea: Yeah? 

[00:05:08] Marco Johnson: Well, originally I got, I wanted to go, I was gonna go to the military first. 

[00:05:13] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:13] I had a bad back injury in college.

[00:05:15] Marco Johnson: Like, my grandfather told me he was a Marine, and my stepfather was a Marine, as well. And they were like, “Look, if you’re gonna do it…” They were both infantry guys, both saw, saw combat, and they were like, “Look, if you’re gonna do it, go in, go to school, get a degree, go in as an officer.” Right?

[00:05:29] Like, “They’re gonna make fun of you for being an officer because you didn’t earn your stripes the way that they did, but you’ll be set better in life.” Yeah. You know? And so, that was what I was gonna do at first. And I went in, and I had a, a really bad back injury and there was just a, a bunch of technicalities as to why I couldn’t get certain waivers signed and stuff.

[00:05:45] So, then, truth be told, like, if I really wanted it, if I really had the courage, I probably could have found a way, you know? So, I don’t wanna act like, “Oh, they wouldn’t take me.”

[00:05:52] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:05:53] It was probably on me. I was probably too scared, to be honest with you. But it, it didn’t work out for whatever reason.

[00:05:58] Marco Johnson: And so, then I was in school and, you know, I was studying business, truth be told, I thought it was the most generic thing that could set me up for some sort of decent career in life. And this is after, we’re kind of backtrack, and it took me six years, I’ll be honest, it took me six years to do four years worth of school.

[00:06:13] I had, um, a friend, unfortunately, take his own life when I was 18.

[00:06:17] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:18] Marco Johnson: And, like, that kind of just messed with my head. And I, I ended up not doing well my first two years of school. They booted me. 

[00:06:24] Marc Gonyea: Where was this? 

[00:06:24] Marco Johnson: This was a community college in Western, Maryland. 

[00:06:26] Marc Gonyea: Okay. 

[00:06:27] Marco Johnson: They booted me and…

[00:06:28] booted for the community college.

[00:06:29] Chris Corcoran: Dude. How does that happen?

[00:06:30] Marc Gonyea: It happens. That can happen. That can happen.

[00:06:32] Marco Johnson: I was on a golf scholarship, too. How funny is that? But they ended up booting me, and my mom kicked me out the house, and it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. ‘Cause it was like, I had to grow up. I can’t lean on this crutch of, “My friend took his own life.” Anymore.

[00:06:44] Like, “I have to be a grown-up now.”

[00:06:46] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:06:47] Marco Johnson: And my dad’s like, “You can come live with me, but you’re gonna go to school, or you’re gonna work.” No, if hands are butts. Right? And I look at that as kind of a second chance. And then, I told myself, “Look, I’m actually gonna try.” Like, I, I, I’ve been good naturally at everything I’ve ever done in life, with minimal effort.

[00:07:02] And, um, I think I get that from my dad. But it was like, “I’m actually gonna, I’m gonna try and see what I can do in school.” Right? And I graduated from a, a local, another local community college, got an Associate’s.

[00:07:15] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:15] Marco Johnson: With highest honors. And then, I, I transferred into Towson State School in New Maryland.

[00:07:20] Marc Gonyea: Yep. Yep. 

[00:07:20] Marco Johnson: And at Hagerstown, at Frederick, I was criminal justice or, like, pre-law originally, and I thought that would’ve been really cool. And then, when I got booted, I was like, “All right, I’ll figure something else out.” Clearly, it didn’t interest me enough to go to class or pay attention in classroom. So, then, it was accounting ‘cause I’ve always been good with numbers and I, I, I enjoy numbers.

[00:07:41] So, you know, I was gonna do that, and I was looking at it, and I was like, “Where, where can I make the most about of, it’s selfishly, where can I, potentially, have the highest earning potential with the least amount of schooling requirement and the most freedom or flexibility?” And so, sales was always in the back of my mind, but it wasn’t something I landed on until,

[00:07:59] you know, probably work in retail, in college at, at a supplement store, GNC.

[00:08:04] Chris Corcoran: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:05] Marco Johnson: Being a part-timer outperforming all the full-timers and being like, “Wait a minute, you’re gonna pay me commissions to sell this, you know, testosterone booster or fat burner or whatever, you know, just helping people do what they, you know, they wanna lose weight, they wanna gain muscle.”

[00:08:18] Like, “I’m gonna help them and get paid to do it. Hell yeah.” 

[00:08:20] Marc Gonyea: So, let’s talk about that. I remember you had told us back in the day. So, you were in school, doing your thing, and you started working at GNC part-time.

[00:08:26] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:27] Marc Gonyea: And they pay you commission. 

[00:08:29] Marco Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. So, the GNC thing was funny. So, like, when… 

[00:08:32] Marc Gonyea: A lot of people don’t have those jobs, like commission-oriented jobs there.

[00:08:35] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:08:35] Marc Gonyea: You know, in college or even in their, certainly growing up. So, you got exposed to that. And what was that, was that like? 

[00:08:41] Marco Johnson: So, like, GNC wasn’t even in a store that I was really planning on working at. I had moved down to Towson. I was enrolled in school, and bless my dad, I mean, he’s saved from such a young age to make sure that I could go to school and not have debt.

[00:08:56] Right? Which, like, a lot of my friends hadn’t been able to, to say. And he’s like, “Look, man, I’m paying for your school, but I’m not paying for your extras, as well.” Right? So, like, “If you want stuff, you need to get a job.” So, like, this hits, I move in, like, the next week, right? And I’m like, “I need to find something.” I’m literally just walking through the mall.

[00:09:13] I think I go into GNC to get some protein powder. 

[00:09:15] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:09:16] Marco Johnson: And the manager’s like, “Hey man, you’re in shape. You want a job?” And like, it just fell. It fell in my lap, you know? And I was like, “Great.” And, yeah, it was, you know, minimum wage gig, but you sell certain things, you make X amount of dollars, so.

[00:09:27] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:28] Marco Johnson: You know, you higher margins on certain things.

[00:09:30] I start pushing those a little bit more, you know?

[00:09:32] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:32] You worked there for a while, right?

[00:09:34] Marco Johnson: Yeah.

[00:09:34] Marc Gonyea: You worked there outta school. 

[00:09:35] Marco Johnson: Yeah. I was a part-timer there for a little bit. Then, I dunno, maybe six months or a year or so then I, when I graduated, they promoted me to, ended up getting a, a store manager job. Did really well, really well in that gig.

[00:09:49] And, you know, ended up getting put in, like, the worst store in the Baltimore region. It was at this Eastpoint Mall out in Dundalk, Maryland. If anybody’s familiar with that, shout out. 

[00:10:00] Chris Corcoran: Dundalk, if you listen it. Right, right.

[00:10:02] Marco Johnson: I’ll never forget…

[00:10:03] Chris Corcoran: Shoutouts.

[00:10:04] Marco Johnson: …one of my first days working at the Mall, I had a gentleman come in and try to trade me a pocket knife for a protein bar.

[00:10:10] Like, it was that kind of mall, you know what I mean?

[00:10:11] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. Water system.

[00:10:13] Marco Johnson: Yeah, man. It was interesting. And I ended up taking that store from the lowest in the region to the top, like, one or two in the region.

[00:10:18] Chris Corcoran: Wow. 

[00:10:19] Marco Johnson: And I was like, it was super motivating for myself and I was like. 

[00:10:22] Chris Corcoran: Well, how’d you do that?

[00:10:24] Marco Johnson: I’ve, it’s a good question and, like, I, I’ve thought about it a lot. ‘Cause, like, my, my wife will ask me after I win a deal or something like, you know, just like, how I stay motivated. ‘Cause I’ve been, I’ve been a remote worker since Damien left memoryBlue. 

[00:10:36] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:10:36] Marco Johnson: Like, it’s, so, like I’ve never needed the camaraderie of other people around me to get motivated, very, very internally motivated.

[00:10:42] But I think there, it was like, it’s, it’s me versus me. Like, I didn’t have really part-timers working with me. Like, I never like letting people down, I guess that’s probably the root of it.

[00:10:51] Chris Corcoran: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:51] Marco Johnson: From a very young age, my dad told me, like, “The only thing you have that nobody can ever take from you is your word.”

[00:10:55] Right? So, if somebody gives me a responsibility, I’m gonna try and run with that. And I’m a people pleaser. I wanna keep people happy, you know?

[00:11:01] Chris Corcoran: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:01] Marco Johnson: And, yeah, so it was just when people came in and instead of writing it off as we’re in some bad area, like, “Maybe they don’t have money to buy this, or they don’t, you know, they’re not gonna do this or that.”

[00:11:11] Like, just give everybody the benefit of the doubt, have honest conversations, get to the root of why they’re in there to, you know, to begin with and just talking through it right now. I guess that was my first experience with qualifying people, right? And figuring out what their pains were. But yeah, it was just honest conversation.

[00:11:26] And still, this is exactly what I do to this day, right, just talk to people.

[00:11:29] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. You learn, you’re kind of what works for you.

[00:11:32] Marco Johnson: Exactly. 

[00:11:32] Marc Gonyea: And you have to change it a little bit, but if it’s still your stroke, you’re not gonna change your stroke. Not necessarily, right? Unless you Tiger Woods and your car crash and break little bones in your body, you gotta change your stroke, I guess.

[00:11:42] Marco Johnson: Changes a little bit.

[00:11:43] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. All right. So, you’re at GNC, and you’re, you’re obviously doing well, you got promoted to men’s stores too, right? 

[00:11:49] Marco Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. After that, after taking that one store from the bottom to the top, I ended up having, like, five or six stores.

[00:11:55] Marc Gonyea: Wow.

[00:11:55] Marco Johnson: Just in the Baltimore area, Baltimore County, Anne Arundel County areas, that I’d managed. I’d be responsible for their numbers, kind of hiring, firing, all that fun stuff.

[00:12:05] And it was, I thought I was making great money. Yeah. Like, I was fresh outta college, you know, I, I mean, I was probably making like 50K or something.

[00:12:11] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:12] Marco Johnson: Like, I was stoked at that. 

[00:12:13] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:12:13] Marco Johnson: You know, from, from my upbringing, I was like, “Oh, this is great.” But as with anything in life, like my biggest, the biggest upsides in everything has come from me being humbled.

[00:12:22] Right?

[00:12:24] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:24] Marco Johnson: So, then, it’s like, you know, I meet people that are doing so much better than me, and I’m like, “Well, how are they doing it?” You know?

[00:12:28] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:12:28] Marco Johnson: And then, it’s like, “I can do that too.” 

[00:12:31] Marc Gonyea: So, who did, who did you meet?

[00:12:32] Marco Johnson: I met my now wife. 

[00:12:33] Marc Gonyea: Okay. 

[00:12:34] Marco Johnson: Yeah. I met my now wife.

[00:12:35] Marc Gonyea: Mother of your, of your.

[00:12:36] Marco Johnson: Of our, our beautiful boy, who just turned four. Yeah, Rachel and Dominic are awesome, but. 

[00:12:41] Marc Gonyea: Shout out to them, they’re part of this journey. 

[00:12:42] Marco Johnson: Yeah, for sure. 

[00:12:43] Marc Gonyea: I remember before you were married and before you had a kid.

[00:12:46] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:47] Marc Gonyea: But you had, still had the wife.

[00:12:48] Marco Johnson: Yeah.

[00:12:49] Marc Gonyea: Wasn’t the wife yet?

[00:12:50] Marco Johnson: No. Yeah, man. It was the girlfriend at the time. 

[00:12:51] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:52] Marco Johnson: And so, I met her, and she’s super motivated.

[00:12:55] She was a stylist. She was in hair school and, you know, just, just loved, loved working with people and, and, like, her retention rate at, at her salon was great. And, like, so, like I learned a lot from her, but in hindsight, like, meeting her, I meet her family and, like, her family was very successful in, in the ventures that they had taken part in.

[00:13:14] And, you know, her, her stepdad is, you know, had been in tech sales and had built a phenomenal, you know, life for himself and his family. And, you know, without Steve, there’s no way I would’ve gotten in tech. Like, I, I saw the, the future that he created for himself and his family. And it’s like, “Well, if he can do it, why can’t I do it?”

[00:13:30] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:13:31] This is about my guy named Steve Williams, who I met at MicroStrategy. He was, like, VP of the Northeast, was crushing it, and everybody was like, “Hey, go work for that guy.” So, somehow, I met him at MicroStrategy, we’ve worked at the same company. 

[00:13:44] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:44] Marc Gonyea: And I was on a different group and…

[00:13:46] Chris Corcoran: Back in the nineties.

[00:13:47] Marc Gonyea: Back in the nineties, yeah, this is like ’99, probably.

[00:13:51] Chris Corcoran: 1999.

[00:13:52] Marc Gonyea: Wow. And when Chris and I started the business in 2002, he’s one of those guys on the list we kind of pepper every now and then.

[00:13:59] Marco Johnson: Right.

[00:13:59] Marc Gonyea: Right? ‘Cause we were like, “Man, this guy knows people, he’s successful. Maybe he will give us some work or give us an opportunity to earn some work.” Did you ever get him some referrals?

[00:14:08] We’ve worked with him, his company, not him as the initial. 

[00:14:12] Marco Johnson: Got it.

[00:14:12] Marc Gonyea: I don’t think.

[00:14:14] Chris Corcoran: He was VP of sales.

[00:14:15] Marc Gonyea: He was the VP of sales. Yeah. Right. Exactly. 

[00:14:16] Chris Corcoran: He was the VP of sales. So, yeah, we had worked with him just. Probably our third or fourth client was very cool startup company called Clarios. 

[00:14:24] Marco Johnson: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Very cool.

[00:14:25] Marc Gonyea: That’s right. That’s right. See, we worked with him a bunch then. Clarios is the first that pops my mind. Yeah. Okay. Yep. 

[00:14:33] So, he’s got a great reputation. So, at some point, he pinged me about you. 

[00:14:38] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:14:38] Marc Gonyea: Let’s tell that story.

[00:14:40] Marco Johnson: Yeah. I remember we’re in South Beach. They have a, they had a condo out there and, you know, my wife and I had went down to visit them.

[00:14:47] And I remember just talking to ’em and I remember just being out on the balcony and, or watching him sit out on the balcony, reading a book, smoking a cigar, laptop open. And I’m like,” This is like, that’s the life.” You know? Right? Like, and, and he’s on sales meetings. He’s doing this stuff. And I remember just picking his brain, and the genesis of what I took away from it was basically, “If you enjoy helping people, you enjoy talking to people, you can be a student of the game, you know, and you’re willing to, at least in your mind, outwork everybody in the room that you’re in, like, you can build a very good career for yourself in sales.” And he is like, “And I know just the, the folks for you to talk to.” And he mentioned memoryBlue.

[00:15:23] Marc Gonyea: And I remember he brought us Marco. And Steve’s super smart, super successful, really nice guy who well thought of, and I was like, “This guy looks good, but he lives too far away.”

[00:15:34] Marco Johnson: Frederick. 

[00:15:34] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. And I didn’t wanna tell Steve. 

[00:15:36] Marco Johnson: Well, I was in Baltimore at that time.

[00:15:37] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. You were in Baltimore.

[00:15:37] Marco Johnson: It’s a hike. Yeah. 

[00:15:38] Marc Gonyea: It’s a hike. Yeah. And I was looking at Baltimore from Tyson’s last night, at nighttime. It’s an hour six.

[00:15:43] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:44] Marc Gonyea: This is nobody’s…

[00:15:45] Marco Johnson: No traffic.

[00:15:45] Marc Gonyea: …middle of summer. So, I was like, “Oh, what am I gonna tell Steve?” ‘Cause he’s an awesome person, you don’t wanna tell no to, right?

[00:15:50] Chris Corcoran: So, well, he knows talent when he sees it. Right. He knows talent. Any referral from Williams is gonna be someone that we should give him.

[00:15:57] Marc Gonyea: But we didn’t, initially. 

[00:15:58] Chris Corcoran: Yeah.

[00:15:59] Marc Gonyea: What happened?

[00:16:00] Marco Johnson: It was, I mean, it, it was good, right? I mean, yeah.

[00:16:02] I didn’t know any better. I didn’t know what I was missing out on, at the time, right? I was just like, ah, like…

[00:16:07] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:16:08] Marco Johnson: Coming from a, you know, like I said, humble beginnings. It’s not the first door that I’ve had slammed in my face in life.

[00:16:12] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:16:13] Marco Johnson: You know? So, it was just like, “All right, onto the next, keep chugging. GNC’s fine.” You know?

[00:16:16] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:16:16] Marco Johnson: “Maybe I’ll just, I’ll become a regional manager at GNC or something.” You know?

[00:16:19] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. And just to make clear, we were like, “Man, this is a hard job to kick someone into initially.” 

[00:16:24] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:24] Marc Gonyea: And then, we don’t like to put on that an hour and a 45-minute commute, in rush hour, two-hour commute in rush hour, one way.

[00:16:31] Marco Johnson: If not more. Yeah.

[00:16:32] Marc Gonyea: If not more. 

[00:16:33] Marco Johnson: Yeah, man. 

[00:16:33] Marc Gonyea: So, we said, “No.” It’s just like, “Respectfully, we’ve gotta pass.”

[00:16:37] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:16:37] Marc Gonyea: But. And you said, “Yes, I’m out too, for now.” But how did it happen? How’d you? 

[00:16:41] Marco Johnson: I don’t remember how it came back, but a few months later, I don’t know if, if I reached out or, or what the case was, but I was moving back to Montgomery County, and my game plan was like, “I really need to give this a shot.”

[00:16:55] Like, “Nothing good in life comes from staying in your comfort zone.” Like, “I need to take, I need to, you know, spread my wings.” So, I was humbling myself after living on my own for a little bit. And I was like, “I’m gonna move back in with my grandmother.” You know, it’s close, it puts me within that 25-mile radius or whatever you got, 30-mile radius at the time.

[00:17:11] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:12] Marco Johnson: And I moved in with Nan and, you know, it was, it was awesome. You know, I ended up getting the job and starting here and, I mean, the rest is history. But I’m sure you’re gonna wanna dig into.

[00:17:22] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, let’s talk about that.

[00:17:22] Marco Johnson: memoryBlue stuff. Yeah. 

[00:17:24] Marc Gonyea: You wanna roll, Corcoran?

[00:17:25] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. So, what do you remember about starting as an SDR?

[00:17:30] Marco Johnson: I remember my first face-to-face interview was at old courthouse.

[00:17:35] Chris Corcoran: Okay. 

[00:17:35] It was there. I was running late. I drove a, a huge work truck, big diesel work truck. AC didn’t work. Right. So, I didn’t wanna wear my, like, my suit and dress clothes in there. So, like, I’m in basketball shorts and a tank top getting changed in the parking lot.

[00:17:49] Marco Johnson: Right? Like, it’s hilarious, in hindsight.

[00:17:50] Marc Gonyea: You had a huge truck.

[00:17:51] Marco Johnson: Yeah. Huge, huge, lifted. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:17:56] I still miss the truck. My wife hated it. 

[00:17:58] Couldn’t park it anywhere. Yeah. But I, I remember interviewing, I think I, I interviewed with Mishler, obviously. 

[00:18:05] Chris Corcoran: Like, Mishler.

[00:18:06] Marc Gonyea: Mishler daddy.

[00:18:07] Marco Johnson: Mish was awesome. But my experience with him was like a week.

[00:18:10] So, like, I don’t remember a lot of the intricacies of, like, the interview process, but I remember day one, Mish was like, “Here’s your headset.” Hands me a headset that didn’t work, one. “Here, here’s your desk and oh, by the way, like, I’m leaving.” So, like, and that’s when he was going out to California. 

[00:18:25] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Right. 

[00:18:26] Marco Johnson: So, it was like, “Oh.” Yeah. So, I got thrown in a back little corner, in, or yeah, at the old courthouse office. And I think I was near Austin. I sat near Austin.

[00:18:36] Marc Gonyea: Okay. Yeah. Yep. 

[00:18:37] Austin. Yep. Austin at the time.

[00:18:39] Marco Johnson: Yep. Yep. And there was a couple empties in that, and then very quickly I got moved over to the, the boon office.

[00:18:45] Chris Corcoran: Okay. 

[00:18:46] Marco Johnson: Which is where I was with a lot of people that I stay in touch with until this day.

[00:18:48] Marc Gonyea: Who? 

[00:18:50] Marco Johnson: Crippen, Crippen. 

[00:18:52] Marc Gonyea: Josh Crippen, yeah. 

[00:18:53] Marco Johnson: John Paul sat next to me.

[00:18:54] Marc Gonyea: John Paul. 

[00:18:55] Marco Johnson: Yeah. I, I haven’t talked to him in a while, but, yeah, he and I always. Um, Justin was a, a big dog in that office.

[00:19:02] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:19:02] Marco Johnson: Yeah.

[00:19:02] Marc Gonyea: Okay. 

[00:19:03] Marco Johnson: And Tommy Oudinot.

[00:19:04] Marc Gonyea: Oh, Tommy O.

[00:19:06] Marco Johnson: Yeah. I worked with him at the company before I’m at now.

[00:19:08] Marc Gonyea: Okay.

[00:19:09] Marco Johnson: Yeah. I brought him in over there. He’s awesome. Yeah. He’s, there’s a lot, a lot of great people in the office to, to learn from. 

[00:19:14] Marc Gonyea: And what was that like? So, you were making the transition…

[00:19:17] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:17] Marc Gonyea: …from B2C .

[00:19:19] Marco Johnson: Yeah.

[00:19:19] Marc Gonyea: At GNC to B2B and, you know, talk to us about what you remember about that. Maybe you don’t remember. 

[00:19:26] Marco Johnson: Yeah. I mean, I was nervous to like, get on the phones at first, but then I reminded myself, like, throughout college, I had an internship with the National Kidney Foundation and like, I was cold calling people, trying to raise money for events that they had and stuff.

[00:19:37] Right. So, like 99% of the people that picked up the phone told me, “No.” Or like, “Do you know where this money’s going?” And start grilling you and stuff. Right?

[00:19:43] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:19:44] Marco Johnson: So, it’s like, I was used to having negative reactions, picking up the funds. Like, that didn’t scare me. I was used to people walking into GNC and being like, “Oh, I don’t need any help.”

[00:19:53] Right. So, like the rejection didn’t scare me. I probably, like, worried too much about, “Can I perfect the pitch or the sheet music or anything like that?”

[00:20:00] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:01] Marco Johnson: But, for me, it was once I picked up the phone and like, I got that first, “No.” And it was like, “All right, that’s as bad as it gets.” Then it was, confidence was there.

[00:20:09] And it was just off to the races. And I may not have known what the hell I was doing, but I knew I was gonna put up more dials and more activity than everybody else. And something had to fall out the, the other side. 

[00:20:18] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, for sure. Who, whose team were you on? Who was your client?

[00:20:22] Marco Johnson: So, I was on Michel’s team and then it went to Lee Ryan.

[00:20:24] Marc Gonyea: Lee Ryan.

[00:20:25] Marco Johnson: Yeah. And so, I worked with Lee for a little while. And that was throughout the five months or so until I, I went to Tommy’s team. But, yeah, I worked with Lee and it was, I wish I remembered more about the folks that were on my team. I know it was like, you know, Crippen and those folks I mentioned.

[00:20:39] Marc Gonyea: But, yeah. I think you’re on Hitachi.

[00:20:41] Marco Johnson: And Nanorep. 

[00:20:41] Marc Gonyea: Nanorep, right?

[00:20:42] Marco Johnson: Hitachi Federal.

[00:20:44] Marc Gonyea: Hitachi Federal, correct? Yeah. Wow. And then, Nanorep digital customer assistant. 

[00:20:48] Marco Johnson: So, Nanorep was acquired by LogMeIn, not long ago. Um, but Bob Sullivan was their VP of sales that I worked with and he was awesome. He was just, like I’ve had great mentors in life that probably didn’t even know they were mentors to me.

[00:20:59] I should probably reach out to the guy now.

[00:21:01] Chris Corcoran: He appreciated it.

[00:21:02] But, like, it’s, I’ve always tried to learn something from every single person I meet. Like, I could have an interaction with a homeless person on the side of the road.

[00:21:08] Chris Corcoran: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:09] Marco Johnson: And like, I’m trying to learn something that I can use in my life to better myself, selfishly.

[00:21:14] And I hope that I can share something with, you know, other people, you know?

[00:21:16] Chris Corcoran: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:17] Marco Johnson: But, like, just everybody that I worked with, I tried to take something from them, and I’m not of the school of fault like some people say where it’s, I’m gonna take what the top performers are doing and just duplicate that, in my eyes that caps me at, “As good as they are,

[00:21:29] that’s as good as I’ll ever be.”

[00:21:30] Chris Corcoran: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:30] Marco Johnson: Like, I, it’s probably not right to think of it that way.

[00:21:32] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:21:32] Marco Johnson: But that’s just how I process it. So, it’s like, “I’m gonna take what other people are doing. I’m gonna analyze it and I’m gonna make it my own.” Right? “I’m gonna take what I love about what they have and then I’m gonna throw my twist on it.”

[00:21:42] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:42] Marco Johnson:  ‘Cause I’m a fond believer of like the, the biggest power in sales is, is not being salesy.

[00:21:48] Chris Corcoran: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:48] Marco Johnson: Right? And, and never coming across, like I’m trying to push or do this. Like, I’m just having honest conversations with people.

[00:21:53] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:53] Marco Johnson: “If I can help you, great. If not, shake hands, part ways as friends.”

[00:21:57] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:57] Marco Johnson: Right?

[00:21:57] Marc Gonyea: Yep. Yeah, this is good. You’re hitting some game. So, let’s just go back to that real quick when you were doing the job. Well, first of all, you were famous for one thing, you never worked on Friday, right?

[00:22:07] Marco Johnson: Oh man. I miss that. 

[00:22:09] Marc Gonyea: Tell us about that.

[00:22:09] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. That’s epic. 

[00:22:10] Marco Johnson: So, going back to moving in with my grandmother.

[00:22:12] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:13] Marco Johnson: Right? I, you know, it wasn’t a terrible drive coming out here, but then, you know, I, I, things get more serious with my now wife and I, and we decided we’re gonna get a place together. This is maybe six, seven months after working here. And I didn’t care where we were moving, you know? I was like, “We’ll move wherever,

[00:22:26] you know, I’ll just, I’ll make the commute.” And so, I moved out to  Anne Arundel County, it was about 50, 50, 55 miles from the office, no traffic. And this is 495 in rush hour.

[00:22:36] Marc Gonyea: In that truck.

[00:22:37] Marco Johnson: In that truck.

[00:22:38] Chris Corcoran: In that truck.

[00:22:39] Marco Johnson: So, you know, I’d leave early and, you know, it was, it was a, it was a nightmare. The traffic wasn’t a total nightmare.

[00:22:46] But so, I, I told myself it was like, my wife didn’t work Fridays, at the time. So, that was the first motivator, was like, “It’s just more time to, to hang out with this chick I like.” At the time, right? 

[00:22:54] Marc Gonyea: Yep. 

[00:22:55] Marco Johnson: And it’s four days worth of work cramed into, or five days worth of work cramed into four, like, “Great. Gimme a freebie.” So, like, that was motivating. And then, once I, I moved and I had that commute, like that was huge. Right? It’s like, “I don’t wanna make that commute.” Like, this is, I ended up putting like 60,000 miles on a car in like a year and a half, two years or something, crazy. 

[00:23:13] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Wow. 

[00:23:14] Marco Johnson: Just memoryBlue.

[00:23:15] And I was paying a ton of money in tolls on, like, 66 and 495, thinking that the express lanes were gonna help. They don’t help. Like, it helped, like, 10 minutes. Yeah. It was bad. 

[00:23:25] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Well, he’s, Marco’s making it sound like you just work four days. You had to earn it. 

[00:23:28] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. This was not given to you.

[00:23:30] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:23:30] Marco Johnson: The story behind, I don’t know if anybody knows this. So, the, I, I did work five days. I worked Saturday.

[00:23:35] Marc Gonyea: Oh, okay. 

[00:23:36] Marco Johnson: And, and nobody knows that. So, what I would do.

[00:23:39] Chris Corcoran: How to do yeah.

[00:23:39] Marco Johnson: My now wife would work Saturdays and I, me and my dog we’d load up in my truck. We’d drive down. This is, this is before I lived out there.

[00:23:48] We’d drive down to her old apartment, and I’d set up shop there for the weekend. She’d go to work on Saturdays. I’d pop the laptop out and I would build massive lists. I would.

[00:23:58] Marc Gonyea: To this guy. 

[00:23:59] Marco Johnson: I would reveal the secrets.

[00:24:00] Marc Gonyea: This is like one of those 48-hour shows on TV. Keep going, sorry. Sorry. 

[00:24:06] Marco Johnson: No, no, no. So, I would build these massive lists and identify prospects that I wanted to get in front of.

[00:24:11] And then, I would actually email them on Saturday. I was like, the way I’ve always approached sales is like, “How would I want somebody to sell to me? When am I gonna be the most accessible?”

[00:24:19] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:19] Marco Johnson: Like, in today’s day and age it’s when I’m laying in bed at nighttime, and I’m scrolling my phone at 8:30, like that email is gonna hit me a lot harder than the one you send me at nine o’clock when I’m already in meetings for the day.

[00:24:28] Marc Gonyea: Like, yeah.

[00:24:29] Marco Johnson: Different structure, different folks. But, like, selfishly, I try to sell to people the way that I like to be sold to.

[00:24:33] Chris Corcoran: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:34] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:34] Marco Johnson: And it doesn’t mean I only operate on those times. I don’t send Saturday emails anymore.

[00:24:38] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:38] Marco Johnson: But back then, it was effective.

[00:24:40] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:24:40] Marco Johnson: Being changed a little bit. But so, I would email people, and I think the metric was if you were 125% to your quota…

[00:24:47] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:48] Marco Johnson: …or for that for the month, you would get Friday off.

[00:24:50] Chris Corcoran: Yep. 

[00:24:51] Marco Johnson: So, the work I would put in on Saturday would almost always yield, you know, anywhere from one to three meetings. And then, I’m going into the office on Monday, already with Friday off. So, I could have, I could have played FIFA all day if I wanted, you know, but, but clearly I didn’t. But, yeah, so a lot of that, a lot of the secret sauce behind that was work that I put in on Saturdays.

[00:25:12] Marc Gonyea: Excellent. 

[00:25:13] And when you were doing this well, I mean, you’ve already told us, but what did you think you got good at, as, like, what was your kind of superpower? 

[00:25:20] Marco Johnson: There’s, if I’m being honest, I think it’s, it’s less a superpower, and it’s more a, an understanding that there are people that would kill for the opportunity I have in life right now.

[00:25:31] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

[00:25:31] Marco Johnson: Is the one side of it. And the other side of it is, is like, as accomplished as I feel I’ve been in certain areas of life, I’m nowhere in the grand scheme of other people. Like, and it’s not a keeping up with the generalist type deal, but it’s like, there’s so much more growth that I, I can have.

[00:25:46] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:46] Marco Johnson: Like, I’m a student of the game. I fall in love with the process. And I, I detached from the outcome.

[00:25:52] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:52] Marco Johnson: That’s not to say I don’t get upset if I lose a deal. Right? ‘Cause we all lose deals, but, like, I’m not gonna lose sleep over it because I can look back, and I know, for a fact, that I’ve done everything in my power to close that deal.

[00:26:04] And if it doesn’t close, I can’t lose. Like, it’s outta my hands at that point.

[00:26:08] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:26:08] Marco Johnson: You know?

[00:26:08] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:26:08] Marco Johnson: Similarly, when I win a deal, I’m not going out and buying a Rolex just ‘cause I can, you know? Like, it’s you humbly respect, like, “All right, I put the work in, I got this.” 

[00:26:16] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:16] Marco Johnson: “But this could be taken away tomorrow.”

[00:26:17] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:26:18] Like, this is where you coming with a good quote, Corcoran. But a lot of it’s like kind of, you know, the highs and the lows, “Don’t get too excited. Don’t get too, just depressed.”

[00:26:30] Marco Johnson: Yeah. You can’t.

[00:26:30] Marc Gonyea: Or down, or, you know, act like you’ve been there before when you’re in the end zone. 

[00:26:35] Marco Johnson: Yeah.

[00:26:35] Marc Gonyea: Right? And not go too crazy.

[00:26:36] Marco Johnson: Exactly. Been here before. 

[00:26:38] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. And you can tell that you really love this ‘cause coming really easy out of your mind, you know, from your mind, outta your mouth. 

[00:26:45] So, alright. So, you’re doing your thing. You’re not working Fridays. Nobody knows about the secret weapon on Saturday, which is great because we were always like, “Man, how’s that guy do it?” 

[00:26:53] Marco Johnson: Dude, man. 

[00:26:53] Marc Gonyea: Because you’re the only person, you know, people do it, but the consistency that you did it and you guys ex, extrinsic things that were motivating you, what did you think you wanted to do when you got into the role, be like, “Okay, where do I see this going? Where do I see my career going?”

[00:27:06] Marco Johnson: It’s crazy how that changes. Right? Just in, in life, like at memoryBlue, it was just, “I wanna make more money.”

[00:27:12] Marc Gonyea: Yep.

[00:27:12] Marco Johnson: And, like, you guys had a killer comp plan. Like, the base rate was lower than a lot of other places, but, like, I was able to see beyond that. And it was like, if you hit a hundred percent, it’s a one K bump.

[00:27:22] If you’re 125%, you get a two K bump to your base or whatever it was. 

[00:27:25] Marc Gonyea: Yep. Yep. 

[00:27:26] Marco Johnson: So, like, being able to have that and then, you know, I’m back at the nap being like, “All right. A two K bump, what’s that adding to each paycheck?” Like, “Okay.”

[00:27:32] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:27:33] And lacks numbers.

[00:27:34] Marco Johnson: Totally. Yeah. Um, I’m a data nerd. Yeah. Like, I believe almost everything in life is a numbers game.

[00:27:39] Like, if you have enough at-bats, you’re gonna hit a home run at some point.

[00:27:41] Chris Corcoran: Yep.

[00:27:41] But, yeah. So, like, early on, it was just, “I wanna make as much money as humanly possible.” And then, I start seeing people get hired out and, and like getting into closing roles, and I’m like, “Okay, well, I’ve only been doing this for a few months.”

[00:27:55] Marco Johnson: Like, “I don’t know that I’m ready for a closing role. But, like, I want to take those steps. I wanna, I want to go that path because, you know.” So, and so I was able to, again, being money motivated, so, and so I was able to buy X, Y, and Z or do this and being the poor kid coming up. Like, that was cool, you know? Yeah.

[00:28:10] It was cool to be able to do what you wanted. Yeah. Now, like, just, you know, coming to the present day now, it’s still money motivated, but, like, I enjoy helping people. But I’m a fond believer that people who say money don’t buy happiness have either never been poor or they don’t have money.

[00:28:23] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:23] Marco Johnson: Because I, I think money can buy your time and you having the time to do the things you enjoy is the definition of happiness, in my opinion.

[00:28:32] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:33] Marco Johnson: So, I mean, you gotta, you gotta chase money, but like, if money’s the only thing that you’re looking for, it’s gonna be a cold, hard world ‘cause you get told no a hell of a lot more than you get told yes. 

[00:28:41] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Yeah. So, you’re a traditional memoryBlue SDR, and then you probably could have ended up going, getting out place, or going to work for a client, but you got promoted internally. So, what, why’d you wanna stick around? Like, how did that, how that go down?

[00:28:53] Marco Johnson: Shout out to Tommy Gassman.

[00:28:54] Marc Gonyea: So, ’cause we got these SDRs who are working here, they wanna know.

[00:28:57] Marco Johnson: Oh, yeah.

[00:28:57] Marc Gonyea: You know, shout out the Tommy Gassman, okay. 

[00:28:59] Marco Johnson: Shout out to Tommy Gassman. So, Tommy Oudinot and I were always kind of like top, top people in the leader. Right? Tommy.

[00:29:05] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:29:07] Marco Johnson: And Gassman wanted Tommy Oudinot to come over to his team, and I think Tommy was promoting out to another company.

[00:29:12] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. He went, moved to Boston or something.

[00:29:14] Marco Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that’s when he went to work for one of those companies. 

[00:29:17] Marc Gonyea: Uhhuh. 

[00:29:18] Marco Johnson: And so, then Tommy came in, pitching a tough game and like, I, I told him, I don’t even remember this, I was like, he’s like, you know, “I’ve had my eye on you for a while.”

[00:29:24] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:29:24] Marco Johnson: I was, I was always, I’ve always been a smart ass. Right? So, I was like, “No, you had your eye on Tommy O.” And he said, “No.” But, no, like, you know, just talking to him, I, I told him, I was like, “Look, there’s another opportunity that I have, like, here’s what I wanna do with my career.”

[00:29:39] Marc Gonyea: Yep.

[00:29:39] You know, “I do wanna get into a closing role.

[00:29:41] Marco Johnson: I have this SDR offer from a, you know, a household name, you know, company, if you will.”

[00:29:46] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:46] Marco Johnson: Um, and, you know, “They want me to work close to my house.” It was a company that wanted me to do BDR work for NASA, like out at four B. 

[00:29:54] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:29:54] That’s where I would’ve been targeting. So, it was like super close to my house.

[00:29:57] Marco Johnson: It was, you know, like a fatter base and, and, you know, for that time it was great, you know? Yeah. And Tommy, so then Tommy breaks out the numbers and he is like, “Well, you know, technically that’s only this much a month.” Like, “Are you really gonna make a decision on your future over, you know, a couple dollars a month?”

[00:30:10] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:30:11] Marco Johnson: And he’s like, “Look, you know, if you wanna path into a closing role, your quickest path is gonna be on my team.” And hands down, it was the greatest decision I have ever made in my sales career, was to take that jump with Tommy. 

[00:30:23] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:24] Marco Johnson: Hands down. 

[00:30:25] Chris Corcoran: Why was that? Yeah.

[00:30:25] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:30:26] Marco Johnson: Yeah. So, the experiences that I learned selling something that people can’t physically touch.

[00:30:32] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:32] Marco Johnson: I don’t have slides. I don’t have a, an SE or an SE that’s coming to support me.

[00:30:37] Marc Gonyea: Or demo. 

[00:30:37] Marco Johnson: There’s no demo. Right? Like, I remember people asking for slides, and I’m like, “Holy shit, what we do?” Like, “Cohen, what do we do?” Right? 

[00:30:43] Chris Corcoran: Right. And, yeah, Cohen, man.

[00:30:46] It was, like, if you’re selling hopes and dreams, at that point. Like, people just literally have to take your word at face value that you’re gonna be able to deliver on what you do. And like, it was powerful. It was, it was a powerful skill to learn. And like, I always told myself that, like, the difficulties of selling services, which are a beast of their own.

[00:31:08] Marc Gonyea: Yep. 

[00:31:08] Marco Johnson: But, like, the skills that you can take from that, you sell anything in the world. 

[00:31:12] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:13] Marco Johnson: Like it, when I was at memoryBlue, I was begging for somebody to just be like, “Oh, here, sell this phone.” I’m like, “Well, hell I could show you everything about this phone that’s great.” Right? And, and when I got my shot to, to sell products, like it was, it was great, you know, later on in my career. But the foundation, the fundamentals that I learned of selling services, I don’t know that I, I would’ve been as successful without that.

[00:31:35] Chris Corcoran: You take someone who’s selling services and have them sell products, they’ll find it a lot easier. You take someone who’s, needs to selling product and sell services, it’s gonna be challenging. 

[00:31:46] Marc Gonyea: So, we were talking about that in the elevator down about, uh, one of the skills that you learned from the early at memoryBlue. And now, we’ll talk about the skills you have to develop, because there are people who are curious about, you should make that lead for some skills you to develop, but continue to work on.

[00:32:00] But let’s talk about that ability to kind of create your own pipeline. ‘Cause it sounds like it’s differentiated yourself from the competition, meaning other reps out. 

[00:32:08] Marco Johnson: There’s always, always, I mean, I think shy of maybe a month here or there, short of, this one business development rep that I worked with, at my previous company, you know, by the name of Cyrus who is a master at being a BDR, like a legend.

[00:33:28] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:33:28] Short of that, like I’ve outsourced the pipe, my own pipeline from almost every BDR I’ve ever had that worked under me. And it’s like, it goes back to what was ingrained at memoryBlue. It was like, Tommy gave me, he called ’em like prime directives, right?

[00:33:41] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:33:41] Marco Johnson: It was like, “You need to set things that are within your control and things that aren’t without, you know, that are not within your control.”

[00:33:46] So that, even if you make a hundred dials and you get into tin conversations and you don’t book a single meeting, like how are you still gonna look back and say, “This was a successful day.” Right? So, like, every single day, like I, I approach sales with the mentality that I want to find a path to hit my number on my own.

[00:34:05] And anything that demand gen or marketing or my BDR does is just complimentary. It’s, I view that as just additional revenue.

[00:34:11] Marc Gonyea: Like accelerators.

[00:34:12] Marco Johnson: Yeah, man. Right. You’re hiring me. Let me, I’m gonna hit my number on my own. And anything else that anybody else brings in is just another dining room table from CB2 that my wife wants.

[00:34:23] Like, as simple as that. 

[00:34:27] Marc Gonyea: Some really nice rims, right, for the truck. Right? Rims and tires. So, but go into that. So, how does, but how does that happen? ‘Cause you said not everyone, and this is not you talking yourself up or talking to anybody down, but not everybody has that view or that ability… 

[00:34:40] Marco Johnson: Yeah.

[00:34:40] Marc Gonyea: …that make that happen. 

[00:34:42] Marco Johnson: I think I, well, this is merely my opinion, in my opinion only, but I, I think that I come from a very entitled generation that are used to having things handed to ’em. And like, it’s difficult to pick up the phone and put in the work when you’re getting a cushy base that whether you make a hundred dollars or not, you’re still gonna make that…

[00:34:59] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:59] Marco Johnson: …that check every two weeks.

[00:35:01] You might not get a commission check, but, you know, if people are doing it right, they’re gonna, they’re gonna be able to live off of the money that they know is coming in, you know? Yeah. So, it’s like people get comfortable and when you get comfortable, like, it’s, it’s a, a killer of dreams. Like, people get complacent, you know?

[00:35:16] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:17] Marco Johnson: And I’ve never, I had a mentor tell me that I have imposter syndrome and I agree with it a hundred percent.

[00:35:21] I’ve never felt like I deserve to be as successful as I did just coming from, from, you know, humble beginnings. 

[00:35:27] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:35:27] Marco Johnson: And because of that, I’ve always felt like, you know, somebody was chasing me in, you know, on my ass to take my seat. So, it’s like, I can’t let off the gas. Right? You know, so. Yep. With, with pipe gen, it’s just, it was so ingrained to me,

[00:35:41] as a BDR at memoryBlue to joining Tommy’s team, even being a closer in helping train BDRs under me and still doing my own region. Like, when I was on Tommy’s team, he gave me a choice. I think you guys were splitting how we handled deals, and it was, “Do you wanna be the inbound or the outbound guy?” And I, I, I think I told him I was like, “Outbound, you know, that’s the only way. Like, if you try and make me the inbound guy, I’m gonna leave.”

[00:36:02] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:03] Marco Johnson: Because it like, “It will hurt my career five years from now.

[00:36:06] It’s gonna be tougher today, but it’s gonna hurt me down the road.”

[00:36:09] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:09] Marco Johnson: And I stand by that.

[00:36:10] Marc Gonyea: But why don’t more people think that way? 

[00:36:14] Marco Johnson: I don’t know.

[00:36:18] Chris Corcoran: It’s hard to be hungry when you’re well fed.

[00:36:20] Marc Gonyea: It’s hard to be hungry when you’re well fed. 

[00:36:20] Marco Johnson: I love eating. 

[00:36:21] Marc Gonyea: Right? You really like to eat, right? Yeah. 

[00:36:25] Right. So, but translate that into, like, your success today. 

[00:36:30] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:30] Marc Gonyea: You passed, you know, your past stop or two, since you left the firm, like, how has that helped you, in addition to growing these other skills, as a professional?

[00:36:39] Marco Johnson: Just how is, like, the outbound function? Like, so, I mean, the biggest deal that I’ve ever closed came from a cold email. 

[00:36:45] Marc Gonyea: Really?

[00:36:46] Marco Johnson: Yeah. It was over a $3 million deal.

[00:36:50] Chris Corcoran: Wow. Outbound.

[00:36:50] Marc Gonyea: Outbound.

[00:36:51] Marco Johnson: Email outbound.

[00:36:51] Marc Gonyea: Email, outbound. Does it work, Chris?

[00:36:53] Marco Johnson: A CTO of a three letter agency, it was a federal deal.

[00:36:56] Wow. It ended up being the first, the first big federal client that, that company had had. It, it got us on more contract verticals so that they had the authority to operate with more federal agencies. So, it was game changing for the company as a whole. 

[00:37:09] Marc Gonyea: Wow. 

[00:37:09] It’s staff that it probably has over 30 people in the project now.

[00:37:13] It’s, I guarantee it’s still running. And it’s, it’s one of the biggest digital transformation projects from the Department of Defense. 

[00:37:20] Chris Corcoran: And this doesn’t happen without you. 

[00:37:22] Marco Johnson: All from a cold email. Now, I didn’t close the deal entirely by myself. Right? I was the AE.

[00:37:27] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, you found it. 

[00:37:27] Marco Johnson: But my CEO, my COO, like I can’t take all the credit, but I was part of it.

[00:37:30] And it, it started from, it properly placed email to a CTO that ended up coming to our office two weeks later for a face-to-face. And…

[00:37:40] Chris Corcoran: How’d that feel?

[00:37:40] Marco Johnson: It was great, man. It, it’s proof. It, it’s proof, is, you know, seeing is believing, you know? Like, at memoryBlue, I’m a fond believer of like staying in your lane.

[00:37:52] Right? So, like, when I was at BDR, I didn’t care about closing deals. 

[00:37:57] Chris Corcoran: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:57] Marco Johnson: Right? Like, I’m paid on the amount of meetings that I book, right? So, my sole purpose in this, you know, I didn’t, it wasn’t my job, in my opinion, at that time, to make sure that it was a hundred percent the perfect client, it was to share what we do, generate a certain level of interest and then pass that meeting along to somebody more knowledgeable, making more money than I am,

[00:38:18] that gets paid to come in and qualify in or out and close it, so on and so forth. Right?

[00:38:22] Marc Gonyea: Yep. 

[00:38:23] Marco Johnson: And being able to detach from that, like it, it made it easy for me. Right. Like, I didn’t, it was just a numbers game, you know?

[00:38:29] Marc Gonyea: Where’d you learn this concept attachment, that’s the second time you mentioned this, detaching yourself from the outcome, just kind self-learned that, did you pick that up somewhere? 

[00:38:38] Marco Johnson: I had an ego early in my career. 

[00:38:39] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:38:39] Marco Johnson: Like, early in my sales career, it was easy to be like, “Oh, you’re up towards the top of the leader board.” Right? And like, you walk around your chests out a little bit more, you know? And then, like, a lot of it came when I had, when my wife had our child.

[00:38:50] Right? It’s just, it was very humbling for me of like, what’s, what’s important, what’s meaningful in life. And like sales, sales has given me the ability to, to travel and do a bunch of cool stuff. Like, there’s no doubt about it, right? 

[00:39:02] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:02] But people who are driven, like the one thing I’ve realized is regardless of what industry they’re in, they’ll find a way to make it work.

[00:39:07] Marco Johnson: You know?

[00:39:08] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

[00:39:09] Marco Johnson: Putting, placing the bet on myself versus the, like, just focusing on the outcome. Like, any deal that I’ve had that’s, like, getting close to closing if I start talking about it closing or I start, you know, counting the commissions before they hit, right, something, 99 times out of a hundred, goes wrong, 99 times outta hundred.

[00:39:26] So, I’ve just learned, I’m gonna keep.

[00:39:27] Chris Corcoran: That’s Tom, that’s Tom Gassman that’s coming out.

[00:39:31] Marco Johnson: I’m gonna keep my mouth shut until it hits my bank account or until that the contract is signed and then, you know, we’ll celebrate very briefly. And then, we’ll get on with it. I’ve had mentors tell me I don’t celebrate enough.

[00:39:43] Yeah. But it’s hard to get super pumped up when this is what I’m paid to do. Like, it’s, it’s my job, like.

[00:39:51] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:39:52] Marco Johnson: Does your wife congratulate you for driving to work safely every day now? Right? It’s expected that you’re gonna get here safely, right?

[00:39:56] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:39:57] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:39:57] Marc Gonyea: So, trying to think. 

[00:39:58] Marco Johnson: It’s just a different view on it, I guess, but. 

[00:40:00] Marc Gonyea: No, it’s, I think it’s, uh, one that serves you well, you and your employer.

[00:40:06] Right? This is the type of person we’d want on our squad. Right?

[00:40:10] Chris Corcoran: Absolutely. 

[00:40:11] Marc Gonyea: There’s a reason why you were here, for nearly three years, because I think we, we’re not perfect, but we espoused a lot of these same beliefs that you hold.

[00:40:18] Marco Johnson: Of course. 

[00:40:18] Marc Gonyea: Right? You could have left many times. 

[00:40:19] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:20] Marc Gonyea: Let’s see with a, you know, guy like Steve Williams in your corner.

[00:40:23] Marco Johnson: Crazy thing is, aside from memoryBlue, I don’t think I’ve ever asked him for an introduction to help. I think I’ve been scared to. I think, I think I’ve been scared of him putting his neck on the line and like the one time it doesn’t work out. You know what I mean?

[00:40:35] Chris Corcoran: Well, how, how do you know Shaik then? ‘Cause Sheik and Williams were both at Clarios where Mark and I worked.

[00:40:42] Marc Gonyea: He closed the deal. 

[00:40:43] Marco Johnson: Yeah. I closed deal with, yeah, with his company.

[00:40:46] Marc Gonyea: When he was at memoryBlue, he closed OT, I see. 

[00:40:50] Right? 

[00:40:50] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:40:51] Marc Gonyea: To come work here and then I dunno, you probably knew him before. 

[00:40:53] Did you know him before?

[00:40:54] Marco Johnson: I didn’t know him. Well, well, yeah, a cool guy mean he took me out to lunch and, and, I’ll tell this story now.

[00:41:00] ‘Cause it was a total badass move and, like, I hope I can have a moment like this in my career. He’s like, he’s like, “I want you to know why I’m buying your services.” And I’m like, “why?” He’s like, “Because I want you to work for me one day.” And he is like, “That’s why I’m…” 

[00:41:11] Marc Gonyea: It’s taking a long road. 

[00:41:12] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:41:12] Marc Gonyea: Right, right?

[00:41:13] Marco Johnson: Like, but it was, we’re sitting at, you know, eating, eating lunch in Tyson’s and it was a nice little restaurant and he, he’s dropping this “knowledge and, and says that line and I’m like, Wow, that’s bold. That’s cool.” You know?

[00:41:24] Chris Corcoran: It is.

[00:41:24] Marco Johnson: And then, you know, fast forward, you know, yeah, I ended up working for him and it was cool, man.

[00:41:28] It was, it was my first taste of, of remote work and learned a lot. But I try to learn from everybody, you know? 

[00:41:34] Marc Gonyea: So, couple things. Yeah. Heck, yeah. So, what are some of the muscles that you have to, you developed when you go from like, just booking the meetings and learn to close and through the ones you’re working on today, right?

[00:41:47] Marco Johnson: Yeah. In, in my opinion, like, this sounds super negative, but, like I’m trying to qualify you out before I’m trying to qualify you in. 

[00:41:55] Chris Corcoran: The reluctant surgeon.

[00:41:57] Marco Johnson: Is that a saying that? 

[00:41:58] Chris Corcoran: Well, the surgeon, he’s, he doesn’t wanna, he or she doesn’t wanna perform surgery unless you really convince them to do it.

[00:42:05] Marco Johnson: Right.

[00:42:05] Marc Gonyea: To do it.

[00:42:05] Marco Johnson: It’s, again, going back to, like, having, you know, having a child now, right? It’s like my time is the one thing that I can never get back in life. 

[00:42:11] Marc Gonyea: Take your time by qualifying. 

[00:42:13] Marco Johnson: You can, there is no shortage of money in this world. Like, anybody, you, you guys could do anything and be successful, you know? There’s no shortage of money, but there’s a shortage of time.

[00:42:21] And we don’t know when that last second’s up. Right? So, it’s like, if I’m going to take time away from my wife, from my son, selfishly for my travels, right? Like, mm-hmm, I need to make sure that it’s a good use of my time selfishly and that I don’t wanna waste your time either. You know?

[00:42:35] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:36] Marco Johnson: So, like getting, going back from that SDR mindset of, “Throw anybody in there.”

[00:42:40] And like, when I was a first in AE, it was like,” Throw every meeting on my calendar. I will talk to everybody.” 

[00:42:45] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:46] Marco Johnson: And I’m still that same way.

[00:42:47] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:47] Marco Johnson: But I’m, I’m more so like trying to qualify in and out, like as soon as possible. 

[00:42:52] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:53] Marco Johnson:  Clears your pipeline up, like, you know, you know what’s legit, what’s not legit.

[00:42:56] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:56] Marco Johnson: You start, you know, like one of the most important things in life, if you have a buddy that never reaches out to you, like, are you gonna reach out to him every day? It’s like, give the energy you get, you know, it’s like the people that want to spend time with you, there’s your low hanging fruit.

[00:43:08] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:08] Marco Johnson: Like, spend your time with those people, that doesn’t mean to avoid the others, keep ’em on ice. Right?

[00:43:13] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

[00:43:14] Marco Johnson: You don’t need to talk to ’em every week, possibly.

[00:43:15] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:16] Marco Johnson: You know? So, you keep your cadence up with the important people. So, like, for me, that was the biggest shift is like, I really need to focus on like, “Why are we talking?

[00:43:26] What are you looking to solve? And can I solve it?” And if I can’t answer the three of those, like it’s, it’s not a real app. 

[00:43:32] Chris Corcoran: Very good. Yeah. 

[00:43:34] Qualification is the ultimate closing. 

[00:43:37] Marc Gonyea: Well, that, that’s also like the whole negative reverse cell in a way. Right? I mean, you kind of want to find that if it’s really important to them too, a hundred percent, right?

[00:43:44] So they don’t waste your time further and their own. Some people won’t tell you, “No.” 

[00:43:48] Marco Johnson: Yeah.

[00:43:49] Marc Gonyea: And you have to know whether or not you need to cut bait or not. ‘Cause it’s your most precious resource, time. What’s something, that you, what else was something that you kind of, “Hey, this is something else I need to, kind of skills I need to grow and develop.” 

[00:44:01] Marco Johnson: If it takes, I don’t remember what the saying is. 

[00:44:04] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:44:04] Marco Johnson: But I live by saying that I don’t know what it is. That’s funny. Right? Like, something, if it takes less than 10 minutes to do, just do it now. Right?

[00:44:12] Marc Gonyea: That’s a good one. I need that one.

[00:44:14] Marco Johnson: So, it’s like, it would be so easy, especially, like, when I was on Tommy’s team, looking back and that team’s expanding, and we bring in folks like, you know, Bruce Horner to the team.

[00:44:23] Marc Gonyea: Bruce.

[00:44:24] Marco Johnson: I love that kid. I love that kid. 

[00:44:27] Marc Gonyea: He’s awesome. 

[00:44:28] Marco Johnson: He’s awesome. Nick Boustead, oh, Carley Armentrout. Like, we had this rockstar team and like…

[00:44:36] Yeah, you did.

[00:44:36] Marco Johnson: Austin Schiffli was there for a little while.

[00:44:38]  old man 

[00:44:39] Chris Corcoran: Schiffli. 

[00:44:40] But, like, you know, as that team was expanding, you know, we’re all having more responsibility of helping each other be successful. And then, it’s like, “All right, well, my prospecting time was cut into by this or that.” And like, as team gets bigger, like there’s so much more responsibility.

[00:44:55] Marco Johnson: So, like, I had to learn that, like, I needed to create sacred time and like, “It’s okay to tell people no.” Right? So, it’s like, “If it’s not, if I’m not a hundred percent helping you or you’re not a hundred percent helping me, like, we might not need to talk right now about it. We can push it out a little bit and focus on the important things.”

[00:45:12] So, just like time management, protecting my time. And if, if something doesn’t take a while, like, whether it’s building a list, like it doesn’t take a long time to build a list. Like, that’s one of the things that, like, I took from here and, and maybe other people just haven’t found the right, the right process for it.

[00:45:27] Marco Johnson: But, like, I’ve seen so many people, they go to build a list and like, it’ll take ’em hours, and it’s like, you can literally type in a couple criteria, have this massive list pool. You can, you can narrow that down fairly quickly. And you could have a huge list in, in 20 minutes, 30 minutes. Right? Like, and, and maybe I’m naive to the skills that I’ve learned here.

[00:45:47] Right? And just other people haven’t. But it’s, there’s, be sacred with your time. Put stuff on your calendar and actually do it. Like, don’t see that PG block of, I don’t care if it’s 30 minutes or an hour, like if you see a block of anything, you put it on your calendar for a reason, just do it. 

[00:46:04] Marc Gonyea: What’s PG?

[00:46:05] Pipe gen.

[00:46:06] Marc Gonyea: Pipe gen.

[00:46:06] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:46:07] Chris Corcoran: PG.

[00:46:07] Marc Gonyea: Pipe gen. Nice. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of times people are just, they’re scared of the, they fall in love with, like, the list building ‘cause they’re a little bit scared, which is okay of that, the rejection of the app on part of it. 

[00:46:17] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:18] Marc Gonyea: Right. And it’s easier to sit there in your zone and kind of make these not and I’m all for making good lists.

[00:46:22] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:46:23] Marc Gonyea: But, like, not for, like, doing it at the sake of avoiding what’s most for sure. 

[00:46:27] The thing that, that I’ve seen a lot is like or, or one thing that I had to learn, just kind of going back to that, you know, I thought about it with something you said. Like, when I was working for Hitachi Federal, right,

[00:46:39] Marco Johnson: as a BDR here, like, I started thinking, I’m talking to a CTO of, of the Air Force. I’m talking to, you know, somebody important in, in some three letter agency. Like, they walk on water. Right? Like, I started thinking that they’re some, you know, crazy unreachable person, like how, how grateful I should be that they gave me 10 minutes of their time.

[00:47:00] Like, and then you start thinking about it, it’s like, “Why? We, like, we’re all the same.”

[00:47:04] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, no.

[00:47:05] Marco Johnson: Like, we, some of us got different titles. And like, when you can take that mentality that, like, they’ve ate a bad Chipotle burrito at one point in their life, right? Just as we all have, like, yeah. Then you start realizing, like this supposed, should happen,

[00:47:17] somebody says, “No, cool.” And the saying, I always told Shifflett was, there’s 7 billion people in the world. ‘Cause he like, sometimes he’d be like, “Oh man, they hung up.” Or like, “Ah, it’s a slow day.” And I’m like, “Schiff, there’s 7 billion people in the world. Somebody else is gonna say yes.” 

[00:47:29] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. I think that that only comes with experience, the experience of doing.

[00:47:33] Marco Johnson: A hundred percent.

[00:47:33] Marc Gonyea: I think. Some people may have that, but like you’ve refined that from all the no’s. 

[00:47:37] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:47:38] Marc Gonyea: And if you don’t put yourself to get those no’s, you don’t develop that philosophy. 

[00:47:42] Marco Johnson: Yeah, totally. 

[00:47:42] Marc Gonyea: Because it’s high memories grappling that too. It’s tough. And, but the only way we’re trying to push people here is the same thing, trying to push people to get through it.

[00:47:51] ‘Cause when you get pushed through it and you push yourself through it, then you develop a different perspective on that part of the game. And you can kind of check that box, “Okay. I know how to do this. I’m comfortable doing it. I can move on to these other things.”

[00:48:01] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:01] Marc Gonyea: Which are, you know, what’s it like, just as a rep, you’ve been doing this for a while. Like, what are some of the most important other skills that like you then one talk to you about when you’re an SDR, so?

[00:48:14] Marco Johnson: I think, like, industry knowledge is important, like understanding specific terminologies and things like that with your potential buyer prospect, just showing that you can speak their language.

[00:48:23] I’ve never felt that you had to be over technical. I’ve seen a lot of people, you know, try and get super technical or become product experts. But I, I think you need to have a, a fundamental understanding of the pain points that your prospect is facing and how your software or solution aligns to those pain points.

[00:48:38] Marco Johnson: And I genuinely think sales is as simple as that. And the rest is, “Am I talking to the right person, and is it the right time?” So, like the, you can’t control if like, sure you can create an opportunity, but more often than not, like, you’re not creating opportunities from scratch with a lot of enterprise clients.

[00:48:55] Right? So, like, a lot of enterprise clients, they have very talented people that they work, they have working for them. They’re, they know the pain points that they have, they’re in, you know, SCC filings and reports that they’re releasing every year. So, like, be a student in the game, understand what, you know, different companies are investing in this year, next year, you know, within certain industries you’re targeting, understand, you know, the pain points of your prospects and what’s important to them.

[00:49:20] And, and talk to that. Whereas, like, when I was a BDR here, I knew enough to be dangerous, I think is how you guys used to say it. But, yeah, or Tommy used to say it. Yeah. But, like, I was never an expert on Hitachi. I was never an expert on Nanorep, but nobody ever knew that. Right? Because I knew enough that when the conversation was about to go somewhere that I didn’t need it to go or like I was uncomfortable, or I didn’t know, as a BDO, where to take it, like, I was able to close on the meeting. 

[00:49:43] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:43] Marco Johnson: And that just came from talking their talk, you know, using their lingo and faking it until you make it sometimes.

[00:49:51] Chris Corcoran: All right. This is good. 

[00:49:54] Marc Gonyea: What, you know, when you look around at the, your colleagues, either ones you’ve worked with here or people out in the industry, when people are sizing up opportunities, like places to go work. What do you see some things that people, I don’t wanna say mistakes, but, like, what are some things to look for when you’re evaluating your next thing?

[00:50:15] Marco Johnson: That’s a tough question. There’s a ton. Like, what’s important to me maybe, you know, different than others, but for me, it’s selfishly, “How, how can I come in and make an immediate impact here, but how can they help me become a better, not only a sales person but a better human?” Right? Like, I’m big in, in company values and things like that.

[00:50:35] So, looking at who you’re gonna be working for, you know, like their CRO, “Where’s the CRO come from, is this their first startup?” You know? Or whatever you’re working in, “Have they done this before?” Right? “Were they successful?” You know, things like that. I mean, it’s, everybody’s successful for the first time at some point, but like when you,

[00:50:57] aside from the current company I’m at, like, I’ve worked for smaller companies and when you’re in that, when you’re in that startup grind, you want to be with somebody who has that know-how, who has that expertise to take a company to the next level. Look where the companies at, right, from a revenue perspective. Like, figure that out because the guy who gets you to 10 millions, probably not the guy that’s gonna get you to a hundred million.

[00:51:16] So, you’re probably gonna have a CRO change at some point, right? Like, so you start, you start thinking, and this is all stuff that I had no idea about. 

[00:51:22] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:23] Marco Johnson: When I’m, when I’m early, you know?

[00:51:23] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:24] Marco Johnson: It was, you know, my, my thought process early on was, “Who’s gonna pay me the most?” And, you know, “Great, that’s where I’m gonna go. And I’m just gonna head down and just work, work, work.” You know? But when you start, you know, asking the right questions around like, “All right, well, what’s the competitive landscape look like, you know, where do they fit within that competitive landscape? Are they a market leader? How long have they been out?

[00:51:44] What’s the market share that they have?” You know? And then, look at their leadership, “Are they first time founders?” First time founders are gonna hit roadblocks at some point.

[00:51:51] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

[00:51:52] Marco Johnson: You’re going into, you know, the economy right now. Like, you know, or, or company’s gonna be resilient. Is it a, a quote, unquote like recession proof type business?

[00:52:00] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:52:01] Marco Johnson: And like, there’s just, there’s so much more that goes into it, but like just do your homework, try and get, the advice that I would give myself is remember you’re interviewing them equally as much as they’re interviewing you. 

[00:52:11] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:12] Marco Johnson: And it, it took me years to have that confidence to be able to be like, “Wait a minute, why am I nervous in an interview?”

[00:52:17] Right? Like, “This is for me to, to do better and to help, I’m helping grow a company. Why should I be nervous?” You know? But that just comes with time and seat and, you know, experience. Be confident. 

[00:52:29] Marc Gonyea: For sure. , 

[00:52:31] Chris Corcoran: What, any red flags to look for, that you may tell your former self of, “Hey, if you see someone, if you see this or that, probably something to be concerned about.”

[00:52:42] Marco Johnson: Ah.

[00:52:45] There’s no, there’s no red flags that, that I can look back at today. Like, there’s nothing that I regret from paths that I’ve taken. But it, also, it’s, it’s because of an outlook of stuff. Like, even if something didn’t work out a hundred percent. Like, I, I went to one company and it was supposed to be a product company.

[00:53:01] They ended up not productizing their service.

[00:53:04] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:04] Marco Johnson: And it just kept being a service company. So, like, the whole reason that I ended up leaving memoryBlue, at one point, to sell a product didn’t really happen, you know? ‘Cause it was still selling a service. It worked out, it was great, but, like, taking everything that could be a negative and just trying to learn from it.

[00:53:18] And then, it’s like, it’s not really a red flag because, like, it progressed my career in some way, shape or form. 

[00:53:23] Chris Corcoran: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:24] If you have co-founders, right? Like, try and figure out how they get along. Right? Like, are, are they gonna be happy co-founders, right?

[00:53:31] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:31] Marco Johnson: Are they fighting all the time? 

[00:53:32] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:53:33] Marco Johnson: Um, and then, selfishly, like, I would look at the E team or the executives, like their network. Because, like, if you know, “Alright, I’m an enterprise guy or gal on the East Coast, so I’m probably gonna have an East Coast book of business.”

[00:53:46] It’s a quick sales navigator search of like, seeing, you know, “Well, who are they connected to with East Coast companies?” Right. And you start seeing like, “All right, well, would they be able to make intros early to, you know, get some early, you know, stuff in the pipeline, you know, while I’m, I’m building out my book of business?” You know?

[00:54:00] So, just little stuff like that. 

[00:54:02] Chris Corcoran: Smart. First time founders you said was, that was a red flag too, not a red flag, but just look out too ‘cause they’re gonna run into obstacles.

[00:54:09] Marco Johnson: Totally. 

[00:54:10] Chris Corcoran: So, yeah. That’s good. 

[00:54:12] Marc Gonyea: So, where do you see yourself going, Marco? Like, you know. 

[00:54:17] Marco Johnson: A million dollar question, right? 

[00:54:18] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Like, like, so you’re legitimate, you know, enterprise field rep.

[00:54:26] Do you wanna keep doing that? Either you wanna be a manager one day, VP, like, ’cause you like the freedom, right?

[00:54:33] Marco Johnson: Oh, yeah. I love the freedom, but… 

[00:54:34] Marc Gonyea: I, excuse me, the flexibility. 

[00:54:36] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:54:37] Marc Gonyea: Right? ‘Cause you take, you’re a guy who takes care of things, but then, you know, you’re… 

[00:54:40] Marco Johnson: Totally, totally. 

[00:54:41] I don’t, I love being an individual contributor, but I also love helping people. 

[00:54:47] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:48] Marco Johnson: There’s a lot of people who come from similar backgrounds, you know, that I do that, you know, never saw a, a, a, a career trajectory, you know, of, of, you know, having some financial freedom and being able to do a lot of things, you know, they, they get pigeonholed coming from a small town thinking, “I can only accomplish this.”

[00:55:05] So, like, I’d love to give back to, you know, blue-collar type towns and, and show them that there is a, a bigger path in the world, the… 

[00:55:12] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:55:12] Marco Johnson: Not, not like, “Hey, leave your hometown.” But like, “There’s so many means to be successful in this world.” And like, “Selling’s not a sleazy career, like, people, you know, make it out to be.” 

[00:55:21] Marc Gonyea: Yeah.

[00:55:22] Marco Johnson: You know? There’s, I mean, there’s bad apples in every bunch, right?

[00:55:24] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:55:24] Marco Johnson: But, I, I could see myself being a manager or a VP or CRO one day. But I, I, if I were a betting man, at some point I’ll be running my own company. 

[00:55:33] Marc Gonyea: Okay. Yeah. 

[00:55:35] Chris Corcoran: All right. Nice. Yeah. 

[00:55:36] I dunno when, I don’t know when.

[00:55:37] I am expecting that.

[00:55:38] Marco Johnson: Yeah. But at some point. 

[00:55:39] Chris Corcoran: Okay.

[00:55:40] Marco Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:55:40] Marc Gonyea: And then, what you gonna tap into that side of, like, the world and get those folks involved in your business? 

[00:55:45] Marco Johnson: I don’t know. I, I don’t know what it is. Like, I, I, I don’t have the ideas today. It’s just like, that’s kind of the plan long-term. It’s like, I’d love to, I’d love to create my own, my own dream.

[00:55:56] I love working for people. I love helping other people, you know, accomplish their dreams. But at some point in life, I mean, I’m, I’m 32, at some point, you know, maybe it’s not until I’m 52. 

[00:56:06] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:56:06] Marco Johnson: But at some point, I’m gonna wanna say, “All right, let’s try something else out.” But, for now, for the foreseeable future, I love tech.

[00:56:12] I love not having to come up with the idea, and I love working off of somebody else’s, you know, brainchild. 

[00:56:19] Chris Corcoran: That’s great. Marco, for the listeners, tell us a little bit about selling for small companies versus now you, you moved on, and you’re selling for a larger software company. Just the differences. 

[00:56:28] Brand awareness is big, right?

[00:56:29] Marco Johnson: Like, just, just name recognition of calling and, and you say, “Hey, I’m calling from this company.” And it’s like, boom. Like, when I was cold calling for Hitachi, everybody knew who Hitachi was, at that time. 

[00:56:38] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. 

[00:56:39] Marco Johnson: When I was calling for Nanorep, at that point in time, this was like, they were just getting off the ground, small little startup launched outta Tel Aviv.

[00:56:46] Not many people knew who Nanorep was. Right? So, bigger company, you get the brand awareness, which is always cool. But I almost prefer the scrappiness of, like, a startup. Like, I work for a bigger company now, but like I’m in a smaller division. That’s like a, a scrappy startup.

[00:56:59] Chris Corcoran: Kind of both.

[00:57:00] Marco Johnson: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I don’t know that necessarily the, maybe outbounding is a little bit more difficult when you don’t have the brand recognition, but I’ve always believed that, like, don’t let excellent be the enemy of good. Right? So, like, like with a message, like, I don’t think you have to have the perfect message of saying like, “Hey, I know you went to Virginia Tech.

[00:57:20] I know this, I know that, I know this.” Like, I think a lot of it, a lot of it is, is a relevant enough message touching on the right things just at, at the right time. And, like, regardless of whether you’re at a big company or a small company, like, you still gotta pick up the phone, you still gotta open the email.

[00:57:35] Right? And, like, that’s more important than where I’m calling from, I think is just that I have or the, the sales rep has the ability to create content or a message that is going to be well received on the other end. And I think if you can do that, it doesn’t matter where you work, you will always have a job selling or generating pipeline or anything like that.

[00:57:54] Chris Corcoran: PG.

[00:57:55] Marco Johnson: PG. 

[00:57:56] Marc Gonyea: What are you doing just keeping your skills sharp? Have you podcast, do you read, do you say anything else? 

[00:58:04] Marco Johnson: Everything. All of the above.

[00:58:06] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:06] Marco Johnson: I’ll, I’ll, you know, audiobooks, podcast. I’m big in, like, self-help books, though. Like, I think, like, I’ve, I have favorite sales books, like favorite sales book,

[00:58:15] You can’t Teach a Kid to Ride a Bike at a Seminar. 

[00:58:16] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:17] Marco Johnson: You know, it’s, I love Sandler stuff.

[00:58:19] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:58:19] Marco Johnson: Thanks, thanks, memoryBlue. And, you know, we’ve, I’ve, I’ve done a ton of, like, sales training and all that fun stuff, but I always go back to the Sandler stuff, you know, it’s, it’s my favorite. 

[00:58:28] Marc Gonyea: It’s so good.

[00:58:29] But, for me, a lot of it is like, I follow guys, like Jocko Wilink, I don’t know if you guys, like, like, I love Jocko, right?

[00:58:35] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:36] Marco Johnson: Discipline Equals Freedom.

[00:58:37] Marc Gonyea: Watch, right? Yeah. 

[00:58:39] Marco Johnson: Yeah.

[00:58:39] But, like, Discipline Equals Freedom, that book, like if you’re ever having a, a down day or you’re feeling demotivated, like,

[00:58:47] Marco Johnson: I’ve heard so many people say like, “Sales is tough.” Like, sales is not tough. Like, I, I hate to say it. Like, sales is not tough. Like, my grandfather got shot in Vietnam, like, that’s tough. My mom had a kid at 16 years old; that is tough. 

[00:59:00] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:00] Marco Johnson: Like, we get paid a very good wage to sell software. That’s not tough.

[00:59:05] We’re privileged. We are fortunate. We have an opportunity that we need to take advantage of. So, I think the best way to sharpen the acts is, is just doing it, right? Like, being in sales calls, breaking down sales calls. Like it’s one thing I hated about working here was like getting put on blast of like, “Hey, we’re gonna break down this call.” And when you’re early, and you don’t have that confidence, it’s like, you know, I was worried, you know, “Is, is somebody gonna think less of me because I, I dropped the ball on this call?”

[00:59:33] Marco Johnson: Right? And then, you start thinking, it’s like, “Well, no, it’s just making me get better.”

[00:59:36] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[00:59:36] Marco Johnson: You know? So, like, to continually get better, yeah, tons of podcasts. But I like, it goes back to trying to learn something from everybody, I’ll watch something about people of, you know, all different walks of life.

[00:59:47] I love documentaries, just learning about people. And it, I, I think it gives me kind of going back to a superpower, like being a chameleon, like it can fit in, in any room. Like…

[00:59:58] Mm-hmm.

[00:59:59] …I’ve, I’ve, you know, been poor. I’ve, I’ve, you know, seen the wealthier side of the world. I’ve been all over the world. Like, I’ve done a bunch of cool stuff.

[01:00:05] Like, you can find commonality with people. And sometimes that’s the easiest way to get somebody’s guard down at the beginning of a call, which is the difference between them telling you what you are there to find out and not telling me that.

[01:00:15] Marc Gonyea: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:16] Yeah. Rapport. I like it.

[01:00:18] Marco Johnson: A hundred percent.

[01:00:18] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. That’s all I got, man.

[01:00:21] Chris Corcoran: Very good.

[01:00:21] Marc Gonyea: We, we could keep going. 

[01:00:23] Chris Corcoran: Very good. 

[01:00:24] Marc Gonyea: You got a lot of good takes.

[01:00:26] Marco Johnson: I appreciate it. 

[01:00:28] Marc Gonyea: Experience, you know, when we have people on, from people who left a year and a half ago, but I really like when get people on who’ve been gone for a while.

[01:00:35] Marco Johnson: Yeah, man. 

[01:00:35] Marc Gonyea: Because you developed, I mean, you, you felt, married, kid. 

[01:00:41] Marco Johnson: Oh yeah. 

[01:00:41] Marc Gonyea: You know, couple jobs, hint some big numbers. It gives you some perspective.

[01:00:46] Marco Johnson: For sure.

[01:00:46] Marc Gonyea: And you relate, you remember working here so well, so the folks who listen, who are mostly a CROs, who work here now. Yeah. And then, people are thinking about coming to work here. It, hopefully, they take, they could take some things from this, but Chris and I, we had first Friday, last Friday.

[01:00:58] Marco Johnson: Yeah.

[01:00:58] Marc Gonyea: We went to happy hour and one of the SDRs… 

[01:01:01] Marco Johnson: Still at Spider Kelly’s?

[01:01:02] Marc Gonyea: At Spider Kelly’s, of course. Yeah. Right.

[01:01:04] Marco Johnson: I never went if you were wondering, but I knew where it was. 

[01:01:07] Marc Gonyea: Yout need to go. ‘Cause.

[01:01:08] Chris Corcoran: Around county.

[01:01:09] Marc Gonyea: It was off Friday.

[01:01:10] Marco Johnson: It was Friday. I wasn’t working that day, very often. 

[01:01:14] Marc Gonyea: So, you got some hardcore, this it, so we’ve got some hardcore listeners.

[01:01:16] So, I think the ones who are listening, this is another great episode, man. You’re not gonna get this advice from people you’re working for. They can’t be as candid. 

[01:01:25] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. Well, I, I really appreciate you doing the perspective on kind of selling services…

[01:01:32] Marco Johnson: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:32] Chris Corcoran: …versus selling a product and how much that experience you gained from that. And you realize it, that it’s been, it was helpful in your career development.

[01:01:40] Marco Johnson: This is life-changing. Like, memoryBlue single-handedly changes trajectory of my life. Like, I, I owe that to you guys. We’ll talk, like, I know I put the work in, and that’s what you’re gonna say, but, like, but, but the tools that I learned here are things that I try and teach everybody that I work with that works under me.

[01:01:58] Like, in my current company, I was on like day two, and I created a Slack channel that was just about pipeline generation. Right. And I, like, throw all the other AEs in there. I’m like, “Any meetings you book, any conversations you get into, like, share all the notes here. Well, you know, share best practices.”

[01:02:10] Like, it’s, I’m always thinking about, you know, generating more pipeline, and that’s rooted here, man. 

[01:02:16] Chris Corcoran: That’s great. 

[01:02:16] Marc Gonyea: I love that. 

[01:02:17] Marco Johnson: Yeah.

[01:02:17] Marc Gonyea: I mean, you were part of the crew, remember we had you guys on the second floor Boone or what floor? That the top floor? 

[01:02:22] Marco Johnson: Oh, yeah. 

[01:02:22] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. That was, like, wild. ‘Cause I was thinking there, I was like, “Man, what is going on up here?” We got all these, in the space, it was you, Carley…. 

[01:02:30] Marco Johnson: We had great, we had, we had beautiful views, just huge offices. Right? I was living like a king.

[01:02:34] Marc Gonyea: But there’s no one in there. 

[01:02:35] Marco Johnson: We had that little buffet downstairs. 

[01:02:37] Marc Gonyea: That’s right. Everybody was…

[01:02:38] Marco Johnson: Oh, I loved that place. 

[01:02:39] Chris Corcoran: Very good. 

[01:02:40] Marc Gonyea: So, you were grinding. 

[01:02:40] Well, Marco, thanks for joining us today.

[01:02:42] Thank you guys. 

[01:02:42] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, Marco, this was great. It was awesome. Great catching up with you.