Tech Sales is for Hustlers Podcast

Campus Series: Lenita Davis and Melaney Barba – Sales Isn’t All About Selling

Guest-At-A-Glance

💡 Name: Lenita Davis and Melaney Barba

💡 What they do: Lenita is the sales program director, and Melaney is a sales and marketing lecturer at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire.

💡 Company: University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire

💡 Noteworthy: Lenita started out in mechanical engineering at Tuskegee University. She got her MBA and worked at Procter and Gamble for a while. Then she worked in the engineering sector before deciding to pursue a Ph.D. in marketing. She worked at the University of Alabama, where she accidentally started teaching sales and eventually built their sales program. Today, she is the sales program director at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire.

Melaney was the first student to graduate with a sales certificate from the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, although she studied chemistry for the first three years. Then, she moved from sales to middle management roles that included training, hiring, and recruiting. After doing that for 20 years, Melaney finished her MBA, which led her back to Eau Claire, where she’s now teaching.

💡 Where to find them: Lenita’s LinkedIn | Melaney’s LinkedIn | Website

Key Insights

⚡ You can have a sales career with a non-traditional background. Lenita worked in the engineering sector and earned a doctorate in marketing, and Melaney studied chemistry. Nevertheless, both are very successful salespeople and are even teaching sales at the university level. Lenita and Melaney point out that whoever gets to know sales falls in love with the job. “We do start to see it more — the competitions are really the thing. So we do the huge internal competition, and then students see cash, travel, prizes. Then, they talk to the recruiters, hear about some of the starting salaries and some of the UNCA potential, and they’re going, ‘Is it too late?'” explains Lenita. Melaney adds, “There are so many types of sales. There are so many types of relationships, places that you can go with it, and opportunities that it creates. And I would say that students, once they’re introduced to it, they’re hooked. And that’s probably what happened to me.”

⚡ You have to be unique in sales. People who never thought about sales before can end up in it and become very successful. The University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire makes sales careers accessible to people from diverse backgrounds or who might not have considered it in the past. Melaney explains how they do it. “We’re not going to teach them to be robots. There’s no scripting; there’s no one way to do everything. There are skills that if you can master in your own way, you can be unique, you can separate yourself, and you’re going to be great. […] We want to teach you the skills, but you get to go out and be you when you execute those skills.”

⚡ Being coachable leads to success. If you attend the sales program at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, you will not only learn a lot about sales itself, but you will also develop the necessary skills and attributes required for this job. According to Lenita, the qualities that students develop in this program, and which are very important, are listening and being coachable. One team had exactly such a spirit, which she cites as an example. “They competed in a virtual competition, which meant they were locked in a room with me from 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. over their spring break. They worked their hearts out, so we got down to the finals. Now last year, to put it in perspective, they came in like seventh place, and they were pretty content with seventh place. But not this year. We get down to the finals, and they announce, ‘And in second place, University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire.’ And they started booing; they were so mad. No one heard them but me, but they were upset. I couldn’t believe it. I loved it, but I couldn’t believe it. Then, after working with me all week long, they immediately said, ‘Do you mind looking at our role plays right now and telling us what we can do to improve?’ And I’m like, ‘Dude, we’ve been here 12 hours,’ and they were like, ‘Please, Dr. Davis.’ I say, ‘Okay.’ I don’t want to kill enthusiasm. They actually made me sit down, watch the role plays immediately after the competition, to give them feedback on how they could do better next year. And that’s the kind of spirit we have.”

Episode Highlights

The Sales Ambassadors Program at UW-Eau Claire

“We get freshmen primarily — a few sophomores — and we say, ‘This is a chance for you to be the face of the sales program and to get a leadership position when you come in the door.’ And so, what my sales ambassadors do: they design the logo, and they have their own little name tag. 

With companies, we have what we call ‘corporate days.’ Companies come to our campus and speak to all our classes. They have lunch with the student leaders, et cetera. Well, the ambassadors are the hosts and the hostesses. So we give the ambassadors the whole day to plan. We give them a script. They call the corporate recruiter, and they’ll say, ‘I’m calling to confirm your schedule on March 5 at eight o’clock. We will meet you at the visitors’ center.’ So one of the ambassadors is at the visitors’ center to get them their parking passes. And there’s a sales ambassador that escorts them throughout the day. And so, the benefit to the student is – my freshmen last year got to meet senior VPs, presidents, and they have their cell phone numbers. They were able to start to build relationships, in their freshman year, with corporate executives,” Lenita explains.

Constant Learning and Improvement Helps a Lot in Sales

“One of the things I always tell students is, ‘If you’ve got a passion about something, you’ll never know all of it. You’ve got to continue to explore it, to learn it.’ And sales is one of those things. The basics have remained the same but so much has changed, whether it’s technology or people and why they buy — and people are more emotional today. And so, how does that change the sales process and your approaches and things like that? I think spending time with people has prepared me to work with students, really appreciate each one of them, and help them identify what their strengths are and really put those out first and go,” says Melaney.

Building AI Technology on the Sales Program at UW-Eau Claire

“It gives them different contexts in which to practice things like building rapport, overcoming objections, that kind of thing. And what we like about it is that it’s never the same, each time you do the role-play. So they can’t memorize a schtick to get through the role-play,” Lenita explains.

Melaney adds, “We’re able to do different industries, too. Again, there are so many types of sales, whether it’s business-to-business, business-to-consumer, or product/ service. So we’re able to go into the AI and simulate a B2B, maybe in tech sales, so they’ll get the chance to hone their skills in different areas. And that’ll help them find out what they like, too.”

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Lenita Davis: You gotta think of sales as helping someone. It’s about solving a problem. You’re helping 

[00:00:04] someone dreams a bigger dream, “It doesn’t have to be this way. I’m, here’s a different way of doing, a different way of being.” That’s the essence of sales. 

[00:01:00] Kristen Wisdorf: Welcome back hustlers, to another episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers, our special Campus Series. I am your host, Kristen Wisdorf. Very excited to be joined by my co-host today, Jeremy Wood, Senior Director of the East Coast at memoryBlue. Hey, Jeremy.

[00:01:15] Jeremy Wood: Hey, Kristen. How’s it going?

[00:01:17] Kristen Wisdorf: Welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:18] And 

[00:01:18] today we have a very special episode. It is our 

[00:01:21] first episode with two guests. So, and not only that, but two guests who are, um, sales professors and work at the program at my alma mater, the University of Wisconsin, Eau Claire, which is very exciting. Lenita Davis and Melaney Barba, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:41] Lenita Davis: Thanks.

[00:01:41] Melaney Barba: Hello. Thanks for having us.

[00:01:43] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, absolutely. So, we like to 

[00:01:47] start all of our episodes by getting to know you. So, we’ll start with you, Lenita. If you could just take, let’s say 60 seconds, and tell us about you, what would be your 60-second, let’s call it your highlight reel?

[00:02:02] Lenita Davis: Wow, my 60-second highlight reel, something I teach all the time. So, in 60 seconds, I started out in mechanical engineering in college. I got my MBA. I tend to find places where I am, like, the only, so 

[00:02:22] if you can imagine, the only one of the few women take mechanical engineering courses. Worked at Proctor and Gamble for a while and worked in the engineering sector.

[00:02:33] Decided I needed to do something different with my life, had a life-altering experience and I say, bump my head and decided to get my PhD in marketing. And the day I interviewed for a job at University of Alabama, the person who taught sales retired. So, in the 

[00:02:54] Lenita Davis: interview 

[00:02:54] they say, “Can you teach sales?”

[00:02:56] “Of course I can teach sales. I can teach anything.” And I had done some work with sales in my career and I ended up building the sales program at Alabama. We had a limited budget and we needed a way to record role-plays, so I got with my good friend Haywood Pulliam, we met by happenstance and we developed sales hardware and, uh, software to record role-plays and critique student role-plays.

[00:03:24] And it ended up being bought by, like, 40 different universities. It’s all over the place. It’s at Texas A&M Baylor, Clemson. You got Michigan State. They all have the system. And one thing led to another and I ended up at Eau Claire. Bob Erffmeyer wanted to retire and he took me out for some bourbon.

[00:03:44] I think there was bourbon involved and somehow convinced me it would be a great idea to, uh, become the sales director in Wisconsin, O Claire. And I had traveled up here many times for his great Northwood Sales Warmup. I came as to, as a competitor, you know, brought my students up to compete and I’ve been here the last couple of years.

[00:04:07] It was kind of dramatic. I remember, uh, I came right during COVID, the riots and so it’s, I’m learning more and more about Eau Claire every day.

[00:04:18] Kristen Wisdorf: From Alabama to Eau Claire. All right.

[00:04:22] Lenita Davis: There you go.

[00:04:23] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s so interesting. I definitely wanna spend some time digging into the software that you created for role-playing, kind of marrying this engineering background in sales and education, kind of future that you have. Melaney, let’s talk about your 60-second highlight overview.

[00:04:41] Did you intentionally get into sales or did you happen to get into sales the way Lenita did?

[00:04:47] Melaney Barba: It also includes a story about Bob Erffmeyer, believe it or not. My claim to fame, I was, actually, an alumni of Eau Claire myself and was my third year of chemistry major, believe it or not. And I didn’t know what I wanted to do. My advisor kind of introduced me to this gentleman, he said, “You know, you’re really outgoing.

[00:05:06] You have a really creative mind. I think you should maybe look into potentially marketing, even if, you know, this chemistry thing isn’t what you wanna do.” And, um, Bob Erffmeyer right away grabbed me, he’s like, “Get into sales. Take a look at it.” And so, my claim to fame is I was the first student to actually graduate with a sales certificate from UW Eau Claire and the rest is history.

[00:05:27] So, I took my first job, actually, in promotions and then, you know, worked there for about a year and a half with a marketing firm. Found myself with a big, top-100 insurance carrier for the next 20 years, moving through roles from sales to middle management that included training, hiring, recruiting staffing, kind of really all, you know, the parts of it.

[00:05:48] And after doing that for 20 years, just had an epiphany, finished my MBA and said coaching, training, you know, the passion of sales is what I’ve loved the most, which led me back to Eau Claire and, and now I’m teaching there, so happy to be there.

[00:06:03] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s really exciting. I remember taking, like, a sales management course with Bob Erffmeyer 

[00:06:10] and I had a summer sales internship where I had to fly to North Carolina for a week of sales training, but that training, ‘cause Eau Claire goes to school a little bit later than the, you know, the rest of the country,

[00:06:23] I had to request and sell myself to Bob to let him, uh, have him let me take my final early and that was, like, my first true sales test. So, I love that. I love the bourbon with Bob. 

[00:06:37] And, you know, it’s, it’s interesting. You both, like Melaney, you said you had an epiphany and Lenita, 

[00:06:42] you said you bumped your head and that’s why you have, like, this change in kind of like career direction,

[00:06:48] so let’s talk about that. I imagine you work with students and people in your kind of every day who are like you, they didn’t grow up with their parents or, you know, intend to go to college, expecting to have a professional sales or marketing career. How common is that, that people that you talk to, whether it’s your students or people in the industry, happen to find their way into sales with either

[00:07:15] technical or science backgrounds? Is that something you see often? How do you have those conversations and how are you at Eau Claire opening the doors for people with those more non-traditional sales backgrounds?

[00:07:28] Lenita Davis: Yeah, we don’t see it as often as I’d like, right? Because usually 

[00:07:33] people in the science 

[00:07:34] and tech field have their schedule so full, it’s difficult to talk them into taking sales as an elective. We do start to see it more. 

[00:07:43] The competitions are really the 

[00:07:45] thing. So, 

[00:07:47] we do the huge internal competition and then students see cash, 

[00:07:52] travel, 

[00:07:52] prizes.

[00:07:54] Then they talk to the recruiters, they hear about some of the starting salaries and some of the UNCA potential 

[00:08:01] and 

[00:08:01] they’re going, “Is it too late?” And as a matter of fact, we have a student, I don’t know if I can give out his name, but he was gonna leave school and he just happened to pop into one of my sales management classes, into Melaney’s professional 

[00:08:17] sales class

[00:08:18] and it just, like, changed its whole trajectory and thought process around finishing college and, you know, what he wanted to do in his life. I think it’s 

[00:08:28] the experiences, like, he had exposure to sales, but it was the 

[00:08:31] experiences of the competitions, the travel and how much fun it is to build relationships with other sales students across the country, with professionals that really get students excited 

[00:08:45] about sales. 

[00:08:47] Melaney Barba: Yeah. And I’d piggyback a little bit on that. It’s, people don’t realize the opportunity that sales is until they start exploring it, right? You know, they think immediately, “Oh, I don’t wanna sell something.” But there’s so many different types of sales. There’s so many different types of relationships, you know, places that you can go with it, opportunities that it creates.

[00:09:04] And really, I would say the word “experiences” that students, once they’re introduced to it, they’re hooked. And I, I would say that’s probably what happened to me. I know that happened to this student, you know, Dr. Davis as well. And we do see that a lot, when the worlds do collide. I will say, I know Eau Claire is actually working on a biology with a business emphasis to try and marry the two a little bit.

[00:09:26] So, schools are really looking into that because we do see some carryover and sales is about relationships. So, whether you’re in biology or something else, you still need those skills to really be good at it. And so, you know, there is some, some, some crossover happening more and more, I would say.

[00:09:43] Lenita Davis: Yeah. And I would say, I would tell students, “You gotta think of sales as helping someone.” And you’re in a help, if you go into those fields, you’re usually trying to help mankind or help someone and sales, it’s about helping. It’s about solving a problem. You’re helping 

[00:09:58] someone dream a bigger dream, right? “It doesn’t have to be 

[00:10:02] this way. I’m, here’s a different way of doing a different way of being.” That’s the essence of sales. And once students understand that, that they’re actually helping someone, they really become excited about it.

[00:10:15] Jeremy Wood: So, Lenita, I want to, I wanna go back to something 

[00:10:17] you mentioned earlier and it was the first time I’ve heard

[00:10:21] someone say it like this, but you mentioned that you like finding a place where you’re one of the only. Where did that

[00:10:29] mindset stem from?

[00:10:31] Lenita Davis: I don’t know if I like it. It just that’s what ends up happening. Right? And what was the question? I’m sorry. I just reacted to that part. Go ahead.

[00:10:41] Jeremy Wood: Yeah, well, I mean, why do you find yourself 

[00:10:44] enjoying being in that type of situation?

[00:10:47] Lenita Davis: You know, and that’s something Melaney and I talked about, because in sales, there’s a huge need for more underrepresented groups. There’s a huge lack of diversity. And what I tell people is, you know, I’m working on this whole theory and research and Melaney and I shoot the idea back and forth, is how do I leverage that difference to my advantage, right?

[00:11:09] Because part of sales is sticking out from the crowd. And I tell students, for example, I’m Vice President of University Sales Center Alliance, which is, like, 60 plus collegiate sales centers across the US and Europe, well, I’m the only African American female there, right? Everybody knows my name

[00:11:30] which is the basic of starting relationship. Everybody remembers me. That’s a huge advantage when you’re in sales. And so, everybody’s gonna notice and pay attention to you, so leverage it to your advantage. Make sure they see what you want them to see. It’s a great way to build your brand because you’re gonna be highly visible.

[00:11:50] Lenita Davis: And we don’t, kind of, we always think of the, there is some extra to it, there’s some extra things you have to do, but there’s also some opportunity there as well. And so, we talked about coming up with curriculum or something, we’re just blue-skying it right now of how do we think about taking that and working it to our advantages, being the only woman or only African American or one of few,

[00:12:15] right? How do you leverage that to your advantage in the sales field?

[00:12:18] Kristen Wisdorf: I like 

[00:12:19] how you said there’s an advantage in being 

[00:12:21] different. 

[00:12:22] And the thing about sales is I think there’s a 

[00:12:24] misconception, which 

[00:12:26] you all and all the other professors we talk to are working to change, which is that there’s a type of person who can be successful in sales or there’s someone that people envision when they think of sales,

[00:12:38] which is a common misconception. I think it is good and 

[00:12:41] Kristen Wisdorf: it’s a great 

[00:12:41] reminder to know that a lot of 

[00:12:44] different types of people, 

[00:12:46] backgrounds, life experiences, 

[00:12:48] personalities, introverts, extroverts can 

[00:12:50] be successful in sales. And so, that’s 

[00:12:53] such a good 

[00:12:54] kind of reminder 

[00:12:55] that 

[00:12:56] being different is 

[00:12:56] really, really good in sales 

[00:12:59] and opening up the sales

[00:13:01] kind of 

[00:13:01] Kristen Wisdorf: career path to, to, to people and different people and new people who maybe otherwise wouldn’t have considered it is a really good thing. So, how are you doing that? How are you opening up? I, you know, 

[00:13:13] you mentioned 

[00:13:14] Melaney partnering with biology, um, to create 

[00:13:17] this kind of like cohesive biology business, kind of future.

[00:13:22] How 

[00:13:22] do you and other professors you work with open up sales career to different backgrounds or people who otherwise wouldn’t have considered it in the past?

[00:13:32] Melaney Barba: Yeah, I think there’s a couple levels to that. And one of ’em starts with our teaching, I would say, you know, like Dr. Davis said, we’re talking about these concepts and topics all the time because they matter and one of the things we both really agree with is we’re not gonna teach ’em to be robots.

[00:13:47] There’s no scripting. There’s no one way to do everything. There are skills that if you can master in your own way, that you can be unique, you can separate yourself and you’re gonna be great, you know? I think my background, I was managing, you know, individuals all the time that had very, very successful careers, successful books of business.

[00:14:06] And I had, you know, one time, three different Hall of Fame representatives, where there’s only been fifty in, you know, the hundred years of my old company, and they all did business differently. They did it, they were unique, they stood out in their own way. And so, that’s number one, is we really wanna impress that upon our students is we wanna teach you the skills, but you get to go out and be you

[00:14:27] when you, you know, execute those skills. So, that’s number one. I think the second place is where we’re sourcing, you know? We take, sales is all about prospecting, right? And sourcing and finding new customers. We’re doing the same thing with our students, you know? We’re not just saying, “Okay, whoever enrolls, this is who we get.”

[00:14:43] We’re reaching out to different groups. We’ve explored a lot of, you know, different groups on campuses that we’re reaching out to or actually even, you know, attending, trying to get tables at, you know, booth, student events and things going on to really attract more and reach outside the college of business students that are there as well.

[00:15:00] So we’ve got a, Dr. Davis actually started a program called The Sales Ambassadors at Eau Claire this year that has been a huge success for that and I’ll let her talk about that because that’s her brainchild and it’s been phenomenal because it’s all about other students, right? Other students know other students, they can introduce them to this

[00:15:17] Melaney Barba: and that’s where we’re getting a lot of our new students from too, is, you know, students finding talent, finding people that might have an interest that, you know, aren’t already looking for it, so, yeah.

[00:15:28] Lenita Davis: So, yeah, what we do with our sales ambassador, it’s something I started a while ago and then I brought her here to Eau Claire, is we get freshmen, primarily freshmen, a few sophomores, and we say, “This is a chance for you to be the face of the sales program, to get a leadership position when you come in the door.”

[00:15:47] And so, what my sales ambassadors do, we buy them a little polo, they design the logo, they have their own little name tag. And so, we have cor, with companies, we have what we call corporate days. When companies come on our campus, they speak to all our classes, they have lunch with the student leaders, et cetera.

[00:16:04] Well, the ambassadors are the host and hostesses. So, we give the ambassadors, they plan the whole day, we give them a script, they call the corporate recruiter and they’ll say, “I’m calling to confirm your schedule on March 5th, whatever, at 8 o’clock. We will meet you at the visitors center.” So, one of the ambassadors is there at the visitor’s center to give them their parking pass

[00:16:27] and there’s a sales ambassador that escorts them throughout the entire day. And so, the benefit to the student is, I said, “Look, by the time you’re a sophomore you’re gonna have,” and, you know, my freshman last year, they got to meet senior VPs, presidents, they have their cell phone numbers. I mean, they were able to start to build relationships their freshman year with corporate executives.

[00:16:52] I’d say, “You’re gonna be the first person that this executive meets when they come on campus.” And they actually interview them at the end of their visit and do a little podcast, right? And so, they have a standard set of questions they ask ’em and they, they edit the podcast and publish it on LinkedIn. So, it’s a great way in a very non-threatening environment to build those leadership skills, to start building that network way before their junior year.

[00:17:21] I mean, can you imagine by their junior year, how many people they would’ve met and come into contact with, how many mentors they’ll be able to build relationships with? So, they get very excited. We feed ’em pizza. We make ’em do grunt work too, you know, set up booths at the career fair. It’s not all 

[00:17:41] sunshine and blue sky.

[00:17:44] It’s not all sunshine and blue sky, but they are great. When we have events, they set it up, they sign people in, they, they manage the students and the corporate people. They learn the ins and outs of planning an event. And then we have workshops for them to help them with their resume. You know, it’s just a great deal.

[00:18:01] That’s our student ambassadors, so that’s to try to get ’em in at a very early age. And then they, I mean, imagine being a freshman and say, “Oh, I can’t hang out with you. I gotta go meet the senior VP at the insurance center,” you know? “Oh, I was having dinner last night with Gartner or whatever,” but that’s, that’s their life.

[00:18:23] Lenita Davis: That’s their experience. So, it’s been great. They’re a great group of kids, and so. 

[00:18:29] I love the, the exposure you give them at such an early time in, in their career and the ownership they’re probably now having in the success of the program as they get more and more invested over the years. For, for the students that you have in your program, I’m, I’m sure that they don’t all come in at their top skill level.

[00:18:50] Jeremy Wood: What traits do you see in your students that 

[00:18:53] grow the most and, and develop the most over their time in your program from freshman to, to senior year?

[00:19:00] Lenita Davis: I would say being 

[00:19:01] coachable and 

[00:19:03] listening. If you will just be coachable, right? “You’re right. I’m not good at this. How do I become better?” And looking for ways to become better. I mean, I’ll tell a little story to brag on the kids at Eau Claire. When I first came in, everybody was used to winning and then we kind of disavowed, that wasn’t pleasant.

[00:19:25] But anyway, this last sales team we had, they were 

[00:19:28] so 

[00:19:29] great. The entire team was great, but I’m gonna tell a story about the twin city, which epitomizes how great this team is. They competed over spring break at a virtual competition, which meant they were locked in a room with me over their spring break from 6:00 AM to 11:00 PM at night.

[00:19:49] I mean, they work their hearts out. So, we get down to the finals. Now, last year, to put in a perspective, they came in, like, seventh place and they were pretty content with seventh place. But not this year. We get down to the finals. They announce, they go, “And in second place, University of Wisconsin, Eau Claire.” And they started booing.

[00:20:13] They were so mad. No one heard them but me, but they were upset. “What? Boo.” I mean, I couldn’t believe it. I loved it, but I couldn’t believe it. Then, now, after working all week along with me, they immediately said, “Do you mind looking at our role-plays right now? Tell us what we can do to improve.” And I’m like, “Dude, we just got, like, we’ve been here 12 hours.

[00:20:38] We just.” “Please, Dr. Davis.” I’ll say, “Okay. Okay. I don’t wanna kill enthusiasm.” They actually made me sit down, watch the role-plays immediately after the competition, to give the feedback on how they could do better next year. 

[00:20:51] That is the kind of spirit 

[00:20:53] we have. 

[00:20:54] Jeremy Wood: I have a feeling those students are gonna succeed regardless of the avenue. They, they go in their careers with that attitude.

[00:20:59] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s really the standard, 

[00:21:02] right, of excellence. And that’s a culture that you’re building and have built in the program, which is really incredible. Like, they have this standard of excellence and they wanna win, but they’re also coachable enough to make you break down the role-play immediately, which is awesome. And Jeremy’s, um, you know, totally right. Like, if they’re doing that now, I can’t imagine what your students are gonna do when they hit their career in a full-time capacity with that attitude, that coachable attitude. Really exciting.

[00:21:34] Lenita Davis: Yeah, they’re great. They’re really great.

[00:21:37] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s awesome. So, I wanna touch on something, Dr. Davis, that you said very early on, when you were giving us your highlight reel, 

[00:21:43] you talked about when you were at, I believe it was Alabama, you created a software or a solution to be able to, 

[00:21:50] for sales programs and the role place. Can you talk a little bit more about that and how that got off the ground and where that kind of seed started?

[00:22:00] Lenita Davis: Yeah, it called, it’s called “No Budget” and I had no money so I couldn’t do the multimillion-dollar thing. And Haywood was a small business owner who was, well, it wasn’t small, but, you know, he was, he was pretty, but anyway, and he was like, “Well, what do you want?” And so, together, I would say what we wanted and I would test it, beta-test it, beta-test it and we developed this system where it not only recorded the role-plays, but it would instantly upload the role-play with no buffering. And then a professor could watch it and digitally annotate the video for feedback. So, you would see all the feedback and it’d be hyperlinked to different points in the video. And so, students, “I didn’t say,” and they’re like, “Oh, well, let’s look at my critique.”

[00:22:51] And then you could click on it. “See? There we go. 15 times. Look at.” And that’s how it started. And it was cheaper than the other different versions. So, Haywood, you know, I worked for University of Alabama, so I couldn’t be on the patent and, but I helped him.

[00:23:10] He didn’t charge us for the system, but I helped him market it to other sales programs. He said, “There’s a real market for this” and other schools started to use it. It has a “View Live” feature so that if corporate sponsors wanna view a role-play live, but this is presume you gotta think about, they could just log in and see what is going on in the sales lab live and interact with the students from anywhere in the country.

[00:23:39] And so we develop, it’s since gotten bigger and better and added more things. Haywood’s added tons of things to it now, but it’s pretty much standard in alike, all, most of the sales programs.

[00:23:53] Kristen Wisdorf: I love that. Your comment earlier about, you know, looking for and wanting students in your program who are coachable and you in your career developing essentially what is a coaching software, right? Being able to listen back and see what was done and use it for coaching and getting better and also being able to kind of marry your engineering brain, maybe, with your future in sales and sales education is really cool.

[00:24:17] And I think it’s a good reminder for listeners if you have a passion or a degree in something that isn’t sales, you can still combine the 

[00:24:25] two, which is a great reminder.

[00:24:27] Lenita Davis: Oh, yes. 

[00:24:27] Jeremy Wood: So, Melaney, I, you’ve spent, you know, years selling both as an individual contributor, as well as in more of a team lead 

[00:25:37] position. What from the real selling world has helped you now in this position coaching students who are in this, you know, learning phase of their sales career?

[00:25:47] Melaney Barba: Yeah. I mean, there’s been a lot along the way. I, I really will, you know, say that. I think it’s continuous learning, continuous improvement, you know? Spending time with people, I think, in the field. You know, you think about, “I’ll marry it to my chemistry degree. It’s like a biologist out in the field watching the animals.”

[00:26:05] No, I’m kidding. It’s not like that. But, you know, seeing people and learning, “This is, you know, my personality, these are my quirks,” and making it strengths, right? So, I think some of that has really helped me understand people a little bit and see that, you know, the uniqueness can be a strength.

[00:26:22] And I know we’ve already talked about that quite a bit, but the rest of it, I think, along the way has been continuous, like, learning. You know, one of the things I always tell the students is if you’ve got a passion about something, you’ll never know all of it. You’ve gotta continue to explore it, to learn it

[00:26:39] and sales is one of those things, right? I mean, you know, the basics have remained the same, but so much has changed, whether it’s with technology, you know, people and why they buy and, you know, people are more emotional today and so how does that change, you know, the sales process and, you know, your approaches and things like that?

[00:26:55] I think spending time with people has helped prepare me for sure, to work with the students and, you know, really appreciate each one of them and help them, you know, take their strengths, you know, identify what their strengths are and really put those out first and go. So, yeah.

[00:27:12] Kristen Wisdorf: So, I think you mentioned that you were the first class, Melaney, to get the sales certificate 

[00:27:18] at Eau Claire, is that right?

[00:27:19] Melaney Barba: I was. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I won’t tell you the year.

[00:27:22] Yeah. It’s really exciting that you experienced that, right, first. You experienced that first-hand and now you’re kind of on the front lines in 

[00:27:33] Kristen Wisdorf: coaching and developing students in the program. So, 

[00:27:36] how are the two of you, well, first let me ask, how has the program changed and the curriculum changed since you were in it and now as a professor?

[00:27:47] Melaney Barba: Ooh, that’s a good question. Alright, I’ll start. Since I did go to school here. 

[00:27:52] Now, again, I think so much of it has stayed the same in the respect of, you know, the art and the skills and, you know, the relationships and the connection that you make with people because sales is all about people, right?

[00:28:06] No salesperson would have a sale without people. I mean, in anything, whether you’re selling a service, whether you’re selling a good. So, that connection piece, the relationship part of it, I think, has remained the constant. And the program at Eau Claire has always done a really good job of simulating opportunities to do that.

[00:28:25] Whether, you know, when we built the sales center back in the day, we’ve had that thing for a while now. We’ve had the ability to record for students to go in there and simulate a one-on-one conversation with someone and watch their tape and provide feedback and those types of things. So, the program has always been very, very hands-on.

[00:28:43] You know, the people before us did a really nice job of that, Bob built it, you know, with that hands-on kind of real-life experience and I think going to today, we’re just trying to take it all to the next level. We’ve got some exciting things. I don’t know if I can sail it, Dr. Davis, if she can,

[00:28:59] but we’ve got some exciting things we’re adding this year, between her and I, the amount of time we spend hands-on with the students. Even my 11-year-old son knows most of our sales team students because I’m at home, coaching ’em, you know, from 7 to 10, sometimes at night on Zoom and, you know, my son will peak in, like, “Hey, so and so. Hey.” You know, it’s kind of hysterical because it, again, it’s, our program is really built on the students, about giving them the experience and there’s nothing better than role-playing and spending time with them.

[00:29:28] Melaney Barba: And I think that’s what, you know, Dr. Davis and I are really building it on and continuing that, so it’s been a good tradition here.

[00:29:35] Lenita Davis: You could tell ’em what we’re thinking about doing.

[00:29:38] Melaney Barba: Go ahead.

[00:29:41] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, what’s next for the program? 

[00:29:43] Lenita Davis: Okay. So, I’m always giving Melaney grief that, “Oh my God, look, you cannot burn out this, doing all these role-plays.” She has 70 plus students, like, a semester, right? That’s 

[00:30:00] a lot of role-plays. So, one of the things we’re looking at is AI technology where the students can practice doing role-plays on their own and have them scored, recorded and calibrated, that kind of thing.

[00:30:15] So, even by the time they get her, they can do the rudimentary stuff with the AI, so when she gets them, now we’re into polishing. 

[00:30:25] Right? And so, it’s better for the students and it’s better for Melaney’s mental and mine because I end up role-playing with them and it’s, you know, you get to number 10 or 20. 

[00:30:36] Melaney Barba: It’s a lot.

[00:30:36] Lenita Davis: It’s, you know, you’re, 

[00:30:38] it’s a lot.

[00:30:39] Right? And so, we’re looking at AI technology for them to practice with and score with. What I also like about it and we’re looking into it is you could change gender, you can change a lot of different stuff about it, you can change the context, you can change a bunch of different things. You 

[00:30:56] could even give them an accent.

[00:30:58] So, it gives them many different contexts in which to practice, things like building rapport, overcoming objections, that kind of thing. And what we like about it is it’s never the same role-play each time you do it. So, they can’t kind of memorize a stick to get through the role-play. 

[00:31:17] Right? “Oh, that worked.

[00:31:19] I’m using that.” Well, when they go back in it’ll be different. 

[00:31:22] And so, they’ve gotta be able to think on their feet.

[00:31:25] Melaney Barba: And that’s one of the 

[00:31:26] things I loved about it. You know, we’re able to take different industries too, right? Again, there’s so many different types of sales, whether it’s business-to-business, business-to-consumer, product, service. So, we’re able to, you know, go into the AI technology and simulate a business-to-business maybe in tech sales, in there

[00:31:44] and so that they’ll get the chance to really hone their skills in different areas. And, and that’ll help ’em find out what they like too, right? “Oh my gosh, you know, this type of sale, just, I’m excited about it. I’m passionate about it,” that’s gonna be really helpful in a lot of ways for us.

[00:31:59] Jeremy Wood: That’s a great point. And there are so many different avenues of, of sales, different industries to pursue. How do you all help your students sort of find that maybe what they are gonna be passionate about selling after they 

[00:32:12] graduate from the program?

[00:32:14] Melaney Barba: Internships is one way. You know, we work with a lot of different companies and really try to provide opportunities for our students to gain internships early, you know, not just one internship, but can you start, you know, at the sophomore level, the junior level, um, you know, a little bit early with business partners to really try things out, going to the career fairs and meeting all these different companies and really learning about, you know, what do they do.

[00:32:39] So, we always have, like, pre-call approach, you know, what are the things that you need to go learn to really figure out if this is something you might be interested in and, and then go talk to the company, you know? Just have a, an initial call, do your research. We really, you know, push the students to do more

[00:32:54] and a lot of that is, you know, take a look at what internships are out there and, and maybe try one or two. 

[00:32:59] Kristen Wisdorf: I am really excited about what you’ve talked about in terms of like, what’s next for the program and that AI, um, solution to have the students practice and get a variety of practice under their belt. We certainly understand and you’re doing the lord’s work, Melaney, because 70 role-plays is a lot and, like, there’s multiple, I’m sure,

[00:33:20] over the semester. I mean, even at memoryBlue, we have 500 SDRs, but we keep our teams, like, 8 to 10 people because we know, like, how much time it takes to do that coaching, so that’s really exciting. It’s also, I think, really good for, you know, going back to that coachable piece that you mentioned Dr.

[00:33:39] Davis, because by the students practicing with this AI technology, it’s putting them in a position to self-learn, self-coach, self-reflect, which is so important. And, you know, as Jeremy and I work with, you know, early in their career entry-level sales folks, that’s often something that, you know, people early in the role struggle with.

[00:34:02] They wanna go to their manager and get the answers. “What did I do wrong? What did I do well?” Well, first, the best way to learn is to self-reflect. And so I love that you’re doing that and I think it’s really, really exciting for your program.

[00:34:14] So, let’s have some fun and let’s talk about your time before you got to Eau Claire and you got into sales education.

[00:34:22] I wanna talk about maybe your own personal experiences in sales. So, Melaney, you have, I think you mentioned, like, 20 years of experience in the 

[00:34:32] field, let’s call it, do you have any very memorable sales experiences, maybe a story or two you can share with us? Maybe like your best memory, the best sale you ever had or the one you feel the most accomplished about?

[00:34:48] Melaney Barba: Okay. I can start with that one. I do have that one. So, it was actually, it was only about nine months after I graduated from Eau Claire and I was working for a small promotional company down in Sarasota, Florida. So, living the life on the beach, had the dream job, no, making very little money, but I had everything else.

[00:35:07] So, at small mom-and-pop company, there was only three of us salespeople who were in charge of, you know, acquiring new customers, finding new customers and I, actually, had gotten a lead for this graphic designer who was working on a very top-secret project, 14-people magazine. And I didn’t know the magazine, even then,

[00:35:26] Melaney Barba: I didn’t know anything. Went in with a bid, worked with this graphic designer, sold the heck out of it, they loved me. No. And, um, I ended up landing the biggest account that this company in 27 years had had, you know, a multimillion-dollar deal with Teen People magazine. And, actually, so this was, you know, years ago, 20 years ago,

[00:35:46] and it ended up with, I don’t know if you remember the singer Aliyah, she, actually, unfortunately died in a plane crash the next year, we did her tattoos on, like, tattoos and inserts and a bunch of kind of fun things for that. So, that was my biggest sale with that one. So, most memorable.

[00:36:01] Kristen Wisdorf: That’s 

[00:36:02] amazing. Isn’t it crazy how those real sales experience are, like, imprinted? It’s like sometimes I can’t remember what I did last week, but I can remember sales, like, that happened years ago like they were happened yesterday. It’s 

[00:36:15] really kind of cool and something really unique about being in sales.

[00:36:20] Okay. On the flip side of that, do either of you, Melaney or Dr. Davis, have maybe some sales experiences or examples that didn’t go as well as the team people story? Maybe some embarrassing sales stories or something you can share with our listeners?

[00:36:36] Melaney Barba: Where to begin? No, I, I have one.

[00:36:40] Kristen Wisdorf: No chance.

[00:36:42] Melaney Barba: I’ll let Dr. Davis go. She’s got it. 

[00:36:44] Come on. 

[00:36:44] Lenita Davis: No.

[00:36:45] Melaney Barba: No? She’s like, “I’m not going down.”

[00:36:46] Lenita Davis: Nope. I don’t. I don’t have a story. No. Mm. Go ahead.

[00:36:50] Melaney Barba: So, it, it, actually, was a defining moment for me. It was the moment that I knew that while I loved sales, I didn’t wanna be a sales rep for the rest of my life. It was that defining moment and that was, I wanted to teach it, you know, I always loved, I was a mentor, you know, as my first year as a salesperson, kind of right out of the gate.

[00:37:10] So, I always knew I was on that path, but I was sitting in this woman’s house and she had, I’m not kidding, I counted at least 12 cats. I think there were more. I’m highly allergic to cats. And so, I’m on her couch, the cats are crawling across, I’m in my nicest suit, you know, going out to meet someone, is this impressionable, you know, young, funny something, cats crawling all over me,

[00:37:32] Melaney Barba: I’m starting to sneeze, I’m swelling up and I just feel it. And this woman wanted to go over everything. She wanted the consultative approach. I’m spending as much time, but I was seriously like, “I can’t breathe. I have to get out of here.” And so, I just, I went out without having making a sale because I had to get out of her house.

[00:37:50] So, I, I booked another phone consult. “Can we finish this? I need to get back and look through some things.” I think I pretended like I didn’t have the answers just so I could get out of there. And, um, I did end up closing her over the phone a few days later after a lot of, you know, {..} and other things on the way home,

[00:38:05] Melaney Barba: but.

[00:38:06] Jeremy Wood: That is, that is

[00:38:07] elite thinking on the fly, that.

[00:38:09] Melaney Barba: Yes.

[00:38:11] Jeremy Wood: I, I think that’s such a good lesson though, that failure is, is okay in sales and 

[00:38:16] and you learn sometimes more when you mess up or when you make a mistake. I think a lot of people sometimes wanna have perfect practice before they even try to get on, on the phones or, or get 

[00:38:29] out there and and get face-to-face,

[00:38:31] but when you mess up, you’re gonna, you’re gonna get better faster if you’re also willing to, to be coachable, as you 

[00:38:37] all mentioned earlier, with such an important trait when it comes to developing your skills.

[00:38:42] Melaney Barba: Absolutely.

[00:38:43] Lenita Davis: Always push students to go until you fail 

[00:38:46] because you don’t know how much you can accomplish until you fail. 

[00:38:50] Right. So, I fail all the time, but you know, they’re not funny, ‘cause I go all in. Melaney will tell you. I will go, ” Melaney, let’s go all in.” She’s like, “Wait, wait, wait, wait, come back, come back.” So, we make great partners. ‘Cause I go all in. Like we, we won’t know what we can do until we fail fabulously. And 

[00:39:12] so I will go all in. Yeah.

[00:39:14] Kristen Wisdorf: Gosh, what a good message for your students to hear from you that failing is good, go until you fail and then keep going ‘cause the value, really, in sales and in kind of any career, quite frankly, is the struggle. That’s where you learn what you’re made of, you get better, so I love that message and I love that you’re using your past experiences, both of you, to kind of teach the next generation at Eau Claire.

[00:39:40] All right. So, let’s ask a couple fast questions. Just answer the first thing that comes to your mind. We’re just gonna have a little bit of fun here. Okay. So, Dr. Davis, if you could 

[00:39:50] have a billboard anywhere in the 

[00:39:52] world, 

[00:39:52] where would it be and what would it say?

[00:39:56] Lenita Davis: Oh my God. A billboard anywhere in the world. It’s for me personally or for the sales partner?

[00:40:04] Kristen Wisdorf: Oh, this is for you personally.

[00:40:07] Lenita Davis: Wow. Lenita is awesome. Dr. Davis is awesome.

[00:40:14] Kristen Wisdorf: I’m surprised you didn’t

[00:40:15] Melaney Barba: Truth. 

[00:40:15] Kristen Wisdorf: say, “We’re going all in.”

[00:40:17] Lenita Davis: You don’t know what you’re missing. You don’t know what you’re missing. Where would I put it? Oh, I don’t know. I could think of some places, but it would sound like I’m bitter. So, I would just go. Where would you put it? Let me think.

[00:40:37] Kristen Wisdorf: Ooh. 

[00:40:38] Lenita Davis: Where? 

[00:40:39] Kristen Wisdorf: Can I create your billboard for you?

[00:40:40] Lenita Davis: Sure. Go ahead.

[00:40:41] Kristen Wisdorf: What if it’s on the interstate, go, like, when you’re about to get to Eau Claire and it’s you and Melaney and it says, “You don’t know what you’re missing” and then it pitches the UW Eau Claire sales program.

[00:40:56] Lenita Davis: Okay, we’ll go with that. 

[00:40:56] Melaney Barba: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:57] Kristen Wisdorf: All right. It’s, combine it. 

[00:40:59] Yeah. 

[00:40:59] Melaney Barba: I like it. 

[00:40:59] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah. 

[00:41:02] Jeremy Wood: So, Melaney, what?

[00:41:03] Lenita Davis: Thank you for saving me.

[00:41:05] Jeremy Wood: Melaney, what would you say that you are world-class at?

[00:41:10] Melaney Barba: Oh. 

[00:41:12] Jeremy Wood: Dr. Davis? You can go too. 

[00:41:13] Melaney Barba: I don’t, that’s a rough one. I, I don’t ever say I would world-class at anything again, continuous learner. But I am gonna go with closing. If I’m gonna pick a skill, something that, I close people. I’m all about, like, “What are the next steps? What are we doing next?” Like, even if it’s a micro step, like, “We’re moving forward.

[00:41:31] I gotta keep this going.” So, I would say closing is something, yeah, that I’d pick for myself. 

[00:41:37] Lenita Davis: Creativity and resilience. 

[00:41:40] I’m closer. I’m a big closer. I love closing, but I would say creativity and resilience. Those would be the two.

[00:41:47] Kristen Wisdorf: I love it. 

[00:41:48] Okay. Last 

[00:41:49] question, I’ll give it to both of you, if you could recommend one book to someone considering a career in sales, whether they’re a student or not, what book would you recommend?

[00:42:00] Melaney Barba: All right. Yeah. I would say, 

[00:42:03] I’ve got three, but I’ll go with “Sales EQ” by Jeb Blount. I would say that’s probably a really good, when you talk about students entering into a career, really understanding the behavioral aspects of people and how people think and how people use emotion and how we internalize emotion ourselves and how we can use it to our advantage and how it can really negatively hurt us,

[00:42:27] I think too. So, there’s some inward things and some outward, you know, customer-facing things that you can really learn from that book. So, that’s probably the one I would pick.

[00:42:35] Lenita Davis: I’m gonna go oldie. Not many people may have heard of “The Accidental Salesperson.”

[00:42:41] I like that one for the person who’s not considered sales career and this guy talks about how he accidentally got into sales and then how to sell on purpose. So, it takes you from, “I don’t know about the sales thing” to, “Hey, if you become a professional at it, it’s really a great career, a great thing.”

[00:42:59] So, I like “The Accidental Salesperson” and “Seven Habits.”

[00:43:04] Kristen Wisdorf: Awesome. Those are great 

[00:43:06] recommendations. Thank you so much. 

[00:43:09] Well, we 

[00:43:10] have really enjoyed our conversation with both of you today. The students at Eau Claire are very lucky to have two powerhouse women leading the program. Thanks for sharing your afternoon with us.

[00:43:23] Lenita Davis: Well, thank you.

[00:43:24] Melaney Barba: Thank you 

[00:43:24] both. We appreciate it. 

[00:43:25] Lenita Davis: Glad you didn’t miss it. 

[00:43:27] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah.