Campus Series: Raj Agnihotri – Teaching Discipline and Persistence

In this episode of the Campus Series podcast, Raj Agnihorti, director of Ivy Sales Forum at Iowa State breaks down the many benefits of hiring graduates, while diving into some common misconceptions about sales and explaining how it’s the most entrepreneurial discipline.  

Guest-At-A-Glance

💡 Name: Raj Agnihotri

💡 What he does: He’s the director of Ivy Sales Forum at Iowa State.

💡 Company: Iowa State University

💡 Noteworthy: Raj started out as a sales engineer and transitioned into the world of academia later on in his career.

💡 Where to find Raj: LinkedIn

Key Insights

⚡ Hiring college graduates brings tech companies a fresh perspective. There are many reasons why tech companies should give graduates a chance. Not only do they bring innovative ideas to the table, but they’re also very adaptable and easy to mold. Raj explains, “I think what is good in this scenario is that instead of going to really well-settled folks to hire them from the competition or from the market to sell for them instead, they’re going for college graduates. So one, this generation definitely is much more technical and analytical. They have just this cognitive nerve to get so that they’re very comfortable, that’s one. Number two, these tech companies are finding that because competition is so intense outside, they want to bring in fresh thinking that they can learn from, but at the same time, who’s easy to mold.” 

⚡ Students should have the opportunity to learn sales skills outside the classroom too. The classroom is vital for gaining sales knowledge and learning new skills. But you can learn so much more in the real world. That’s why internships are so crucial for college students. Raj says, “These are a few things beyond the classroom that really inject the understanding of accountability in sales and relationships. Also, one last thing would be that we have encouraged them to do internships and sales jobs and whatnot, but beyond that, we do a lot of activities. For example, we do speed selling and speed networking events, and all these events and gatherings are fully run by our students. And I think that is really making an impact when it comes to bringing the quality students from across the campus to our program.”

⚡ Sales is the most entrepreneurial discipline. Both sales and entrepreneurship are about discipline and persistence. Just like in entrepreneurship, your success in sales is dependent on your efforts. As Raj points out, sales is the most entrepreneurial discipline. He explains, “We really want to make sure that we work closely with entrepreneurship. That’s one of the very personal things for me. I still think sales is the most entrepreneurial discipline among all. There is a lot of push on innovation at Iowa State, and I think the sales program can contribute to that. We have a lot of issues. We opened up our 90 million+ sales innovation center, but I think all those innovations need somebody who can believe and communicate with the bigger world. So entrepreneurship is one area that I really want our sales to be [close to].”

Episode Highlights

The Importance of Speaking the Customer’s Language 

“We worked very closely with our inside sales team and outside salespeople, but we were taking over when it comes to discussing the analytical part of it, whenever it’s discussing the technical part of it. So I’m not saying that we were the best, but we did a great job because we were able to connect to the audience in a much better way than anybody else. We were speaking their language.”

We Need to Break Some False Misconceptions About Sales

“This is the responsibility of higher education, of campuses, and the nation to come together and make sure that sales is considered a discipline. Nobody needs to explain if they say, ‘I want to be a chemist.'”

Having Support at the College Level Is Essential

“It can be tough, based on my personal experience, that you’re not finding support at the college level because there is none. And now, they — my family — all love me, but if you don’t have those role models at home too, then you’re really stuck. So who can you talk to? Everybody. I’m not saying they hate it, but they don’t [love it].”

Teaching Sales Is About Helping Students Discover Their True Potential

“It’s just helping them find their true potential because nothing can replace that kick — to be honest with you — when you really help someone realize their true potential. And I think there are a lot of [people] out there who can do a really good job for themselves and for society and make good money on top of it.”

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Raj Agnihotri: What really makes me click and what really makes me smile is, is when I see the evolution of a particular student from being, “Sales is not more for me,”

[00:00:10] from fresh role play where she was shy, nervous, walking in, coming out, smiling, second role play, getting better, and then securing top tennis part at the end of the semester. It’s just helping them find their true potential Welcome back, hustlers, to another episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers. We’re back with your special Campus Series. I am your host, Kristen Wisdorf, and I have as my co-host today Joe Reeves. Hey, Joe!

[00:01:24] Joe Reeves: Excited to be here.

[00:01:25] Kristen Wisdorf: We’re excited to have you, Joe. Joe runs all of delivery for our West Coast. You probably know him if you have ever worked in our California office, but we’re very excited, Joe and I, to have The Director of the Ivy Sales Forum at Iowa State, Raj Agnihotri. Is that right, Raj?

[00:01:43] Raj Agnihotri: You did an A+ job, 

[00:01:44] Kristen Wisdorf: Okay. 

[00:01:45] Raj Agnihotri: telling you, you, definitely better than my, my foundation of selling students.

[00:01:50] Kristen Wisdorf: Welcome to the podcast, Raj.

[00:01:52] Raj Agnihotri: Thank you very much. Super excited to be here, and thank you very much for giving me the opportunity. I look forward talking.

[00:01:59] Kristen Wisdorf: Of course, we’re excited. So, I’m excited to chat with you. I’ve actually spent quite a bit of time in Ames in Iowa State, in my previous life, my former job. So, I know all about Iowa State and the Cyclone, so I’m excited to chat with you today, Raj. We like to start all of our episodes, actually, the way I start my interviews, when I interview college students, which is to give us your highlight reel. Take 60 seconds or so, don’t worry, it’s not, there’s no timer here, and tell us about you and who is Raj?

[00:02:29] Raj Agnihotri: Yep. So, that’s great. Thank you again. And I did not know that you have connection to Ames. So, which is good. So, I’m not gonna spend 60 minutes explaining how beautiful Ames is. So, you know what I’m talking about. So, Raj, yeah. So, it started as an engineer, moved to sales, loved sales, ran into a mentor, and on the college campus, while doing MBA, and fell in love with the word of academics.

[00:02:54] And one of the reason fell into love with academics is because there was a need for sales researchers, there was a need for sales faculty members. In, in higher education system, there was a scarcity, so saw the gap, saw the opportunity that we can do some good work. So, moved on to the brighter side of sales, right, on education side, did my Ph.D. from Kent State,

[00:03:20] and, um, since then, either involved in building sales programs or collaborating in existing sales programs. Moved to Iowa State to build a sales program with our beautiful two little daughters. One is in elementary school, starting in, uh, grade first, and, uh, another one is an eighth grader.

[00:03:40] So, my wife Manu, and we live here in Ames. She is definitely a better negotiator than me, you know. So, we build a home here, bought a lot and, and build a home. And another person definitely better negotiator than I am is my Dean, David Spalding, who, who persuaded me to move from cold and shivery Dallas area because I was at UT Arlington to warm Iowa. You know what I mean?

[00:04:05] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, that’s, that’s a big win going from Dallas to Iowa. What time of the year did you move to Iowa because

[00:04:11] Raj Agnihotri: Right.

[00:04:11] Kristen Wisdorf: got you in the summer.

[00:04:13] Raj Agnihotri: Yes. So, so they were smart, they invited me, so the way higher education hiring works, it’s one year in advance, right? So, they, they invited me to do campus visit, that was cold, but it was a festivity time here because homecoming day, I remember vividly, and that day I was, stayed beat TCU,

[00:04:32] and boy, oh boy, everybody was smiling, happy, you know, the whole Ames was celebrating, so it seems like they were celebrating for me, but yeah, so that was good. But then, we brought family visited here sometimes, you know, when, when it’s beautiful and green, not gray and white, so, but so far loving it,

[00:04:49] Raj Agnihotri: a great opportunity, like I said, you know, I see salespeople as entrepreneurs, right? So, we see an opportunity to build something, we see an opportunity where we can make an impact and help and serve. I think this was great, and there were resources, you know, resources don’t hurt, right? So, um, yep.

[00:05:07] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, we’re gonna dig into that. I wanna learn all about, about what you’re doing at Iowa State with the program, and you have a lot of experience with multiple universities over your career, but before we get into that, let’s go way back. You said you started your career as an engineer, and then you transitioned, walk us through kind of that path.

[00:05:26] Why did you start your career as an engineer? And was there, like, a moment or a time or a story or an instance that led you away from engineering and into sales and sales education?

[00:05:36] Raj Agnihotri: So, a great question. So, I grew up in India and, you know, I was good in maths and whatnot. So, got persuaded by everybody, “You should be an engineer,” and I said, “Okay, let me try it out.” So, got into the engineering, electrical engineering specifically. Never liked it, but I was good at it, I mean, the one lesson I learned whenever I’m gonna write my personal, right, sometimes you learn you’d good at something, but doesn’t mean that you are in love with that, right? So, so I was good at it, successfully finished it, but always got excited towards whenever there is an opportunity to reach out to people, whenever there is an opportunity to go out and build relationships, right?

[00:06:10] So, I was, I’m, I’m just like all the millennials now I’m surrounded with, I was confused, and I was saying, “What, what I’m gonna do?” So, here coming out from my engineering program, but wanted to utilize and leverage, to be honest with you, what I have worked hard to earn, that is my engineering education.

[00:06:27] So, I, I was the only one I think, unless I don’t know, but as much as I remember, I was the only one in my class because everybody, so this is like, dot-com era, you know, you know few lines in, in coding, you are boss, right? I mean, everybody was rushing to find those software engineers, no matter what engineering you do, everybody’s going into tech, coding software.

[00:06:48] Raj Agnihotri: I was one of those few who decided to join an organization as a sales engineer. So, never worked in core engineering facility, but always worked in a tech side, tech industry, in the sales side. So, it started off as a sales engineer, and it’s a lot of struggles, I know you’re gonna ask a few things about that too.

[00:07:08] So, because of no sales background, no sales training whatsoever, right? So, I was learning through, through coaches and mentors and colleagues, hardware, but succeeded, there are a lot of failures, but few succeeded still, and kept moving. So, worked with a, an entrepreneur and then got a gist of it that, you know what? Sometimes it’s okay to go back to campus and get some proper education.

[00:07:31] And that time, I came to States to do my MBA. But after MBA got into more so academics and a research side. So, to answer to your question, it was my core, to be honest with you, it, it, nothing big happened, I think it, it was always there, I was not able to express myself clearly, and once I got the opportunity, I immediately picked the ball and ran with it.

[00:07:52] Kristen Wisdorf: I love that, and I really like how you were a sales engineer. So, that’s something that, you know, in a lot of these episodes we don’t discuss, and it’s a role that a lot of young people, curious about sales or early in their professional sales career, don’t know what type of that, that path and that role exists, where you can merge a technical mind or skill set or engineering degree with talking to people, talking to prospects, and sales, you can merge the two.

[00:08:21] So, you know, you started your sales career as a sales engineer, can you walk our listeners through a little bit what a sales engineer does and how that’s a bit different than maybe a traditional account executive sales rep?

[00:08:33] Raj Agnihotri: Exactly. So, so great point. So, I can tell you that this organization, uh, Zed Computers, that they were, they had both, they have two units, one worked core sales executives team, and then there is a core of sales engineers, very few of them. And the reason they were, they were experimenting with that,

[00:08:51] this was a new unit, the reason they were experimenting with that because they really want to earn their prospects trust, they were selling very complex networking solutions, for example, right? So, they understood that these sales executives, they are very good in prospecting,

[00:09:06] Raj Agnihotri: they’re very good in, in building those social relationships, but what they also notice, when it comes to the presentations, as it comes to connecting without forcing themselves to connect to the audience, right? So, they were selling to engineers, I mean, that’s the reality, I mean, the people who really breathe and, and drink, uh, networking and engineering solutions, and here comes a sales executive, all looking dashing,

[00:09:29] but, but the point is there was a misconnect, you know, there was a situation where they were seeing it’s not naturally adaptive mechanism happening. So, they thought, “You know what? Let’s find the sales engineer.” So, we were early on, our first few group who, front few groups who, who joined that company as a sales engineer, and what a great experiment.

[00:09:49] So, we worked very closely with our inside sales team, with our, our side salespeople, but we were taking over more, when it comes to discussing analytical part of it, whenever it’s discussing the technical part of it. So, I’m not saying that we were the best one, but we did a great job because we were able to connect to the audience in a much better way than anybody else.

[00:10:11] Raj Agnihotri: We were speaking their language. So, one quick example, and then you gonna laugh at it. So, the same prospect, one of my buddy, fancy MBA degree, and they got 30 minutes, so it’s early-on meetings, right? So, 30 minutes meeting, that person would walk in, and that time I was not joining him, he took 35 minutes, 40 minutes, came back to office,

[00:10:31] we were chatting over coffee, so, great man, “Next time you, you gonna go and you’ll nail it, and they gave me 30 minutes and, but they kept listening to me for 35 minutes.” A few minutes passed by, I got an opportunity to present to their core team that involves engineers and decision maker and gatekeepers, and here I’m sitting, they gave me 30 minutes,

[00:10:50] I finished a presentation in seven minutes, and I’m shut up, I said, “This is it, this is it.” And, and everybody, my team said, “Oh boy, what, what you doing?” And they liked it, and said, “No, I get it, I get you saying, right, and we got the order.” So, what a great, I’m not suggesting we should always do that, but sometimes, you know, you, you connect with the audience, you connect with a prospect and there is not whole lot of, of shenanigans to present, right? I mean, sometimes just simple two plus twos go to four.

[00:11:21] I totally agree with a lot of what you’re saying, and it, it’s interesting ’cause the, the technical sales engineer route, like, I’ve had a couple of personal friends even go through these doors, and they’re now specifically in that role, and it’s pretty rare that people know when they start in their sales career that that’s something that they want to do.

[00:11:37] In this case, they did, a lot of people can find themselves, you know, as you get into sophisticated technology, SaaS sales that you might be working on that you’re like, “You know what, actually, I wanna be doing that, I wanna, I don’t wanna necessarily have to be doing the song and dance of, of moving a deal, but more so, I wanna be talking about the logistics, the technicality with folks and, and building that trust.”

[00:11:57] Versus, you know, in some cases some people might think this person’s trying to make a sale, you’re just explaining the solution, as, you know, as you understand it.

[00:12:05] Raj Agnihotri: Totally agree. You, you said it very nicely, exactly, that’s what I’m talking about, Joe.

[00:12:10] Kristen Wisdorf: So, I imagine, with your students now, you know, software and technology sales is around us, it’s everywhere, and tech companies hire people right outta college, whereas, even when I graduated college, let’s say 10-plus years ago, wasn’t really common, right? So, do you see that now with your students in, in your program where technology companies are hiring students directly out of school in these sales programs now?

[00:12:37] Raj Agnihotri: Yes, absolutely, answer is yes, and I think what is good in this scenario, where these companies who, instead of going to really settled, well-settled folks to hire them from competition or from the market to sell for them, instead they’re going for college graduates. So, one, this generation definitely is much more technical and analytical.

[00:12:58] They have just this cognitive nerve to get it, right? I mean, so that they’re very comfortable. That’s one. Number two, these tech company, what they’re finding is, because competition is so intense outside, they wanna bring the fresh thinking, right? They wanna bring a fresh thinking that they can learn from, but at the same time, who’s easy to get mold in, you know, so that’s very, that is phenomenon that I’m noticing that, that these companies, we work here in Des Moines-based company, they sell cybersecurity solutions, and now

[00:13:29] they prefer finding these graduates, so that they can get adjusted nicely and smoothly with the company culture, and live and breathe the product that they’re presenting, right? So, so I think it’s easier now, unbeneficial now to hire fresh graduates, and I’m biased too, I mean, I’m professor, so I want my students to get hired.

[00:13:49] Kristen Wisdorf: Well, we get it too, because everything we do is technology sales and our clients are, they’re more open to having young people work on their team, and I think, like you said, they’re, you know, fresh thinkers, they don’t necessarily have any bad habits or misconceptions, they’re already in learning mode, right?

[00:14:09] ‘Cause they’re coming right out of college. So, why not take someone, mold them, train them, right, on your solutions the way you want them to be trained and need them to be trained. So, I think it’s really exciting and it’s, it’s really great for sales and, and the sales careers for young people, but especially for the technology space that they’re open to hiring people maybe without two to five years of experience.

[00:14:31] So, let’s talk a little bit about that. So, if we have tech companies now hiring students right outta college, um, maybe quote-unquote, inexperienced. You are giving students experience the best way you can, like, before they even graduate, you’re teaching them how to sell and what selling means. How do you do that?

[00:14:48] Kristen Wisdorf: How do you prepare, what is Iowa State doing to prepare students for these maybe technical sales roles that even 10 years ago didn’t exist for them?

[00:14:59] Raj Agnihotri: Yeah. And, and, and I have three hours, right? So, let’s bring it on. Okay. I’m just kidding. This is it. This, you, you’re touching the nerve now, right? That’s what we live and breathe. So, so, thank you for giving me an offer to talk about it, and, and I’m not gonna say to begin with that, that we have radically created something that never existed.

[00:15:19] Definitely, there are other schools that exist, as we speak, who are doing cool things, and I have, I have started some of those programs too, so I understand. However, building upon those experiences, there are few things that we have done that we are proud of, to be honest with you, in, in the, the nation, maybe, one or two, uh, is doing similar to what Iowa State is doing,

[00:15:40] but let me explain, and you talk to these faculty members, you talk to folks, so, so then you be the judge, if this is unique or not. So, we understood the need from the employers and companies, right? So, so being in Iowa, a lot of people outside of Iowa, Kristen,

[00:15:56] Raj Agnihotri: you’ve been to Ames, so you understand, maybe, but Iowa economy is not just agriculture, I mean, that’s the, that’s the one thing I always try to explain to people, right? Even though equity is big, and John Deeres and, and, and, and, and caterpillars of the world, they have, they’re huge employers, but nonetheless, we have a lot of manufacturers here in the State of Iowa that nobody knows about, but they’re growing.

[00:16:21] And we have tech companies in Des Moines, we have financial services company in Des Moines. So, a lot of this stuff is going on beyond corn and soybean. Okay. That’s one. So, what we started when we started building a program, we thought, how can we prepare these because many of these students, we are the largest school in the state of Iowa, in terms of recruiting high school graduates from Iowa.

[00:16:42] Raj Agnihotri: So, these, the reason I was telling about this farming thing, some of these students grew up in farms, many of them actually grew up in farms, right? So, they have seen this life, but they haven’t seen necessarily that fancy, you know, cool cafe type of California-based tech company styles, right?

[00:16:59] So, we wanted to give them that exposure so that they’re ready, right? So, what we have created, first of all, three-dimensional reports we did. So, first dimension is, we said our sales program will be open to each and every major. So, we don’t wanna limit ourselves to marketing, we don’t wanna limit ourselves to business,

[00:17:16] okay? I know some programs that offer it to finance or accounting and management, everybody, but we wanna go beyond the walls of college of business. So, we work very closely with engineering here on campus, we work very closely with college of agricultural and life sciences, we work very closely with VetMed.

[00:17:35] So, our program, the structure of our program, we, we do some core sales classes that I’m gonna talk in a minute, but we, but we involved a lot of electives from these colleges. So, our student body, I would say 30% is outside the college of business, primarily engineers, because college of engineering has, has a minor and on top of that minor, they can pursue our sales certificate.

[00:17:56] So, we don’t have a major or minor, we have a certificate, and that certificate it’s one of its kind in the State of Iowa, definitely the only one on the campus that is open to all the majors. So, when these students start taking classes, Kristen, we, each and every class, each and every class, irrespective of who’s teaching, by default, each and every student has to go through a sales case study, okay?

[00:18:21] So, as you must have talked to folks who are running sales center or working in sales center, right? And these companies and employers come for hiring, networking, coaching, mentoring, all that kind of thing, but our classes in each and every class, we connect that class to one of the organization that we work with.

[00:18:38] So, Ivy Sales Forum is a combination of 13 companies, majority of them are in Iowa, but they came together. So, we, we developed the content while working with these 13 organizations who really want to create the future of sales talent pool, right? So, our contents, our curriculum, which is relationship based is veryhands on, okay?

[00:19:01] So, no student can finish any sales class without going through these sales case studies that we have developed in conjunction with these companies. So, when they come out and they are doing 21 hours total for the certificate, but definitely 9 hours of sales curriculum. So, if you think about, and these case studies are semester-long, right?

[00:19:20] So, if you do the math, they have technically done eight or nine sales negotiation presentations. I’m not counting the actual practice sessions. So, each class, we do two or three, 20 minutes to 30 minutes long video recorded, videotaped intense business presentations, sales presentations that are judged by individuals and executives,

[00:19:44] you know, participated as a buyer and judges. So, they are being exposed through and through while they’re on campus, while they’re taking classes to these different sales scenarios, okay? So, for example, in my students, in my class, they’re working on an ethos service system that is focused on, uh, employee engagement within the organization.

[00:20:04] They’re part of Holmes Murphy, another student group of students, the entire class is working with Pella Corporation. So, the point is, even though they’re not technically having the, the sales experience, they, they understand sales, they appreciate sales, they understand the relationship selling process. And then, we encourage them to, to internships.

[00:20:23] So, not technically, I would say in theory maybe they not have, you know, two, five years students, but we put them in a rigorous process that when they come out, they’re ready to, for the training, there are some, in some cases, they’re even ready to carry the back, you know, makes sense?

[00:20:38] Joe Reeves: It makes total sense, and I actually kind of wanna ask a follow-up question for listeners who, who it might not fully make sense because sales can sometimes be of this very pretty broad and general idea of, like, what necessarily does it encapsulate, and I think that’s very exciting that you have this hands-on in classes, right?

[00:20:55] You’re, they’re gonna be a part of one of these 13 orgs, probably sponsors in your org here. We’re huge proponents of hands-on, like, our junior to senior year internships that we offer, like, they’re, you know, by almost look and feel they’re doing a lot of the SPR work, not just some of the backend CRM stuff, right?

[00:21:12] They’re working with SDRs that are here on the floor. So, what are some, like, other examples of things that are very hands-on material in those sales courses that they would be doing with those 13 partners?

[00:21:23] Raj Agnihotri: Very good. So, the whole organization runs like a sales organization, every student who is involved through sales club and part of Ivy Sales Forum understands that they need to be accountable, right? Uh, one of the big things over the years that we saw in sales, you know, I’m gonna make sales, then I’m gonna disap you, right?

[00:21:41] So, we want to teach them from the campus that, that they need to be accountable, right? Just, actually, the real works start when you say I do, right? Movies end by that by the creator, but I think the real movie should start, and then when both parties said I do, right? So, when you get into relationship, that’s when the work starts.

[00:21:58] Raj Agnihotri: So, so, for example, what I’m trying to say is we have created a professional sales club organization that is our frontline, okay? So, there are account managers. So, these students are, are working as account managers for these companies, okay? We have, one of the key examples that I’m gonna give, which will make sense,

[00:22:16] for example, you go to colleges, business career services, right? They do career fair and all that kind of thing. We, we, we did something very different, we said, “You know what? Business career services faculty members should not get involved”just because one of the key reason it is between employers and students, right?

[00:22:33] So, why not give students authority to run the show? So, I think we are one of the few in the nation where our key core career night is arranged and run by students. So, we officially call it “A sales club career night.” So, these 58 employers were here, you know, this past Wednesday, 58 employers from table to serving, to giving the water bottles, everything was done by club students, right?

[00:23:03] They are truly running the show and, and one student is telling another student, I think about that, such a beautiful thing, and we just sit and relax, and somebody can say, “Well, you figured out a lazy way to do things,” but that’s true, too. So, we are just watching from the sidelines and how they’re handling, and think about the, the relationship they build, right?

[00:23:21] And accountability they, they understood. So, these are a few things that I would say beyond classroom that really inject the understanding of, of accountability in sales and relationships. Also, one last thing would be, we, we have encouraged them to do internships and sales jobs and whatnot,

[00:23:39] but beyond that, we do a lot of activities, we do a lot of, for example, we do, uh, speed selling and speed networking events, and all these events and all these gatherings are totally run by our students, and I think that is really making an impact when it comes to bringing the quality students from across the campus to our program.

[00:23:59] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, and not only does it give them the op, your students the opportunity to have, you know, sales experience by doing role play in speed selling, it also gives them kind of exposure and experience to running a business, working on a team, it’s not just a group project, hey, we have to, you know, do this simulation, they act, it’s as close to the real thing as they can get, which is really exciting. 

[00:24:19] Raj Agnihotri: So, this is school, Kristen, so, you, you put it really nicely. So, I’m gonna give you one example. So, this past Wednesday, and these are students, right? I mean, these seniors, juniors, we, even sophomores, and so much pressure, 58 employers, right? In two hours, we, we own the whole main floor that we have, and they’re going crazy.

[00:24:36] They’ve been working for the last two months, to be honest with, to make that happen, and the day happened just like in a salesperson’s life, you know, one employer reached out, he’s texting me, well, he’s one of the big donor of our sales firm, he’s texting me, he said, “Raj, we are a little bit furious because we did not get the table in the main arena,

[00:24:55] we are stuck here in the corner, I don’t see much traffic coming, I think it’s, it’s, it’s not fair.” And, and he’s, I said, “Hey, man, I, I can’t even do anything, you gotta have text message to, to Riley because she’s a Sales Club President,” or something like that, right? So, now they’re, so on the spot, they’re feeling the pressure and all those things, right? I mean, like, like, we deal with, you know.

[00:25:16] Kristen Wisdorf: Like a true customer, exactly, or prospect. A hundred percent. 

[00:25:19] Raj Agnihotri: You said it, right, and right now, you have to make a decision to make them happy, right? They got two hours, they’re angry and, and boy, oh boy, but, but those are the things that really make us, make it interesting.

[00:25:31] You know, I wanna go back to, you talked a lot about how, you know, students in your program, maybe they, only experience industry wise that they have is really, like, they grew up on a farm or thinking that Iowa’s mostly ag jobs, whether it’s sales or not, and since you are open to every major, what are some of the misconceptions you face or students, or maybe even their influencers like their parents have about sales and a career in sales.

[00:27:00] And then, the follow-up question is like, how do you, as the program, overcome that to get more students into your program?

[00:27:05] Oh boy, yeah, that’s sensed it, right? And that is the one thing, thanks to folks like you and thanks to people who support us, we need to come together to break those myths, right? Break those, those walls that exist when it comes to sales, right? So, often time it’s, it’s painful

[00:27:22] Raj Agnihotri: what I hear, right? That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s to be, that’s very fair to say that I feel pain. For example, if I see a very dynamic young woman, and I said, “You know what? You should explore sales.” And she’s listening, she’s good, but then she would say, “Yeah, I know, but you know what? I, I can’t lie, I’m not good in lying.” And I’m just like, 

[00:27:42] Kristen Wisdorf: Oh, no, that is like the 

[00:27:42] Raj Agnihotri: I’m just shocked.

[00:27:43] Kristen Wisdorf: truest misconception, yeah. 

[00:27:45] Raj Agnihotri: I know, I’m just shocked, and, and to be honest with you, I think I can talk, but I was, for a few seconds, I just locked my word, I said, wow, wow, I don’t know how to, how to come back from that. And then, she was not making fun of it, she just had this struggle that, in order to succeed in sales, you need to make up things.

[00:28:03] And I said, “You know what? It, it’s just sad, it’s pitty that you think that’s what we teach, and that’s what, this is far from reality, and to be honest with you, we, we don’t do that, right?” So, so those are things, another thing, a student, again, a history major, by the way. So, she was in my class, and she was good,

[00:28:22] Raj Agnihotri: I can totally see the potential, history major. So, I said, “Hey, would you, would you, we stop by my office, we can talk about sales certificate program, everybody’s in sales, by the way, I’m also in sales, right, I have to sell the program to students.” And she would say, “Yeah, I’ll stop by.” We just chatting,

[00:28:35] and I said, “I see potential, you’re doing very good in sales cases study, you did very good in your role play presentation, have you thought about it? I know you’re sales major.” And she said, “You know what? I know, but, but I don’t know if, if it will make my parents excited.” Another book, right, I said, are you, said, “I know, I know what my dad’s gonna say.

[00:28:54] ‘I, we send you college, we, and you’re gonna go on sales, why did you go to college? To become a sales?'” Right? So, those are the things that really hurt, right? And one student at a time, we’re doing, and I’m not saying all the situation is like that, or all the scenarios are like that, but definitely, these scenarios exist.

[00:29:13] These conversations have interesting, and this is the responsibility of higher education of campuses in the nation as America to come together and make sure that sales is considered as a discipline, right? Nobody needs to explain if they say, “I wanna be a chemist, or I wanna be engineer,” right?

[00:29:32] I mean, people get it. I just say I’m, then there is no second question what exactly you’re doing, right? Then why suddenly, if I say I wanna be a salesperson, I wanna ensure, oh, okay, why, why they start trying to find certain qualities that I possess, maybe, to be sales, right? So, we need to break those myths, we need to work one day at a time,

[00:29:52] and it would, it has to start from even when they’re in high school, you know, I like to see a day in my life as admissions, when a student are applying to be a salesforce, right? We don’t see that yet, they understood when they talked to industry folks that sales is good, and if their parents are in sales, they understand the respect, right, it gets, but oftentimes they don’t, and they come in here to become a banker or a marketer, but then they start going to these career fairs and start talking to professionals like you and others, and they say, why, they’re looking for something very tangible, right? I mean, go to career fair, 80% of marketing companies who are marketing companies, but they’re hiring sales,

[00:30:35] that’s the reality we live in. But then, we are not doing good job in our classrooms because they think they’re gonna get out and they’re gonna make a hundred K, and their boss is gonna give them a hundred million dollars to create new ad for Apple. I mean, that is just not true.

[00:30:49] Kristen Wisdorf: It’s very true. The, I even remember when I was in school marketing majors, like, you know, my classmates, they all just wanted to make Superbowl ads and thought that was like the real, and while some people will and can and do, right, the truth is, is 80% ended up in a sales role, ultimately, so.

[00:31:08] Joe Reeves: Yeah, I still, I, to this day, occasional friends or family have to give that off the misconception of like, oh, so like, you know, you have to stretch the truth, I’m like, unnecessarily, no, if anything, when you get down to it, sales is, you know, you’re trying to help someone usually, and, and if you’re, if you’re ultimately not trying to do that, that will come back on you as a sales professional, or at some point in time, right?

[00:31:30] So, then I, I’m curious, then, you’ve been building this at Iowa State, plus a couple of other colleges and universities. What’s the current state of the sales program in Iowa State, and like, what are some of those other initiatives you’re, you’re rolling out now that’s obviously a lot more established?

[00:31:45] Yes, I agree with you that I, we can proudly say it is established here. We have, and we are supported by resources, too, by the way, right? So, so we have three Ph.D. members in our team who dedicated to sales research and teaching sales classes, right? One of the researchers, female, that’s another thing, right?

[00:32:04] Raj Agnihotri: We wanna put the role models in classrooms that, that sales is not just a male business, right? So, we, we are very working hard to make sure that we secure 50% of our human population, right, they, they get interested in sales, too. So, and in terms of practitioners also, so, so we have around four or five faculty members who dedicated to sales, right?

[00:32:23] So, that’s why, what else we are doing in terms of rolling out the programs, we really, really wanna make sure that we work closely with entrepreneurship, that’s one of the very personal things for me, I still think sales is, is the most entrepreneurial discipline, you know, among all, right?

[00:32:42] A lot of push on innovation at Iowa State, and I think sales program can contribute to that. We have a lot of issues, we open up our 90 million or plus sales innovation center, but I think all those innovations need somebody who can believe and communicate to the bigger world, right? So, so entrepreneurship is, is one area that really, I, I want our sales team.

[00:33:03] Raj Agnihotri: We are growing a student wise too, so we just closed our scholarship application deadline, even though we started two years ago, to be honest with you, 72 applicants, right, who deserve that they think we can get a scholarship, we are rolling out $70,000 in scholarship because really not bring talented students to sales, right?

[00:33:21] So, branching out to other disciplines, especially to entrepreneurship, bringing quality talent, and bringing diversity in our classrooms. I think we are going a little bit macro now, right? That’s where the, the real value is now. I mean, in the State of Iowa, we are limited in terms of who’s coming to Iowa State campus,

[00:33:39] but within that, you know, we see another next big thing would be, it’s already there, but, but I think diversifying the, the workforce and diversifying the front lines, no matter how much we diversified organization as a whole, think about it, right? Because front lines are, are the face of the organization,

[00:33:54] Raj Agnihotri: if front lines are not diverse, no matter how much reports and, and website promotion you can do, you know, it’s still, it’s, it’s not making any sense. So, I think it has to start just like those sustainable and green pushes, right? There were a lot of reach at that time that first you need to make your front lines, you know, green, then you can, then you can claim that your organization.

[00:34:14] So, I think those are certain areas. I don’t know if you, that, that’s what your question was, but those are some of the priorities that we, we really are, are trying to push.

[00:34:22] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah, absolutely. That’s really exciting, and obviously, as a woman in sales, I appreciate your, you know, push to have representation in your faculty for sales as well. You know, it’s interesting, you, I think a lot of people will resonate with your story of you got into engineering originally, ’cause you were good at it, but you didn’t necessarily love it.

[00:34:42] And that is, I think a lot of people find themself in that spot in their life at some point. So, what advice would you have or give to someone, maybe they’ve already graduated college, or they happen to be at one of the universities where sales education isn’t really on the forefront yet?

[00:34:59] What advice would you give someone if they’re considering getting into sales, but they have a degree in something else, or their experience to date is in a different field? That’s a million-dollar question, that’s a real question. And it’s tough, right? Especially it became tough based on my personal experience that you’re not finding support at, at the college level, right? Because there is none, and then, now they all love me, my families, but if you don’t have those role models at home too, right,

[00:35:26] Raj Agnihotri: then you’re really stuck, right? So, who can you talk to, everybody, everybody, I’m not saying they hate it, but, but they don’t, you are super thrilled about sales and the college, you don’t have research, think about those, and there are a lot of them, right? There are people like me who, so, so it’s challenging,

[00:35:39] that’s, nonetheless, it’s challenging, but I think things have changed a lot in, in last 25 years, the story that I’ve seen over the years. I think, even look at you, right? I mean, the resources that are available, that are available at the click of the, just, just like typing something on the website, right?

[00:35:55] Think about it, there are podcasts, there, there, there are stories out there, and kudos to you all, talking like this, right? I mean, these things did not exist, you know, 25 years ago, even 20 years ago. And so, there are a lot of, tech has enabled learning, we all know that, right? Tech has enabled learning.

[00:36:11] Learning is much easier now if somebody is truly interested in learning, right? So, that’s one. Use those resources if you’re struggling finding resources in a school and, and personal life. If, although I still believe that personal touch is needed, I still believe that tech is there to enable human touch, not to replace human touch.

[00:36:33] So, you still need to find a coach, a mentor, a role model, right, who can really tell you what sales is and what sales is not, because sometimes we know the answer, but we wanna hear from someone, right? And we don’t wanna read it, it on the screen, or on our, on a newspaper, by the way, I change this, I used to do newspaper now I’m doing newspaper, like, so, or to read the newspaper or, or, or hear, you wanna hear from a human being, right, who looks normal, right? And they said, “You know what? I made my career in sales, I build a family, it’s a great profession, it’s a respected one,” and you can succeed by doing the right thing by being ethical and by being relational, right?

[00:37:12] So, fine, try to find those individuals, okay, they exist in our communities, in our college campuses, if it is not a major, I talk to students who sent me an email, just the other day, a student named Jackson, he, he, he said, “I’m not your student, I’m not taking sales classes,

[00:37:28] I’m not even in the sales certificate program, but I wanna talk to you because I know you are in that field.” I said, “Okay.” So, we are chatting, and he’s avid hunter, by the way. So, he’s, he, he loves to hunt and he’s telling me, 15 minutes his story’s about hunting and all those things, and then politely, and starts the thing, he said, “One day, I wanna be selling financial services,

[00:37:50] I wanna go in that field area.” I said, “Why you say that?” And then he’s telling personal stories that how some tragedies happen in life and how, thankfully, his parents have that insurance and all that kind of thing, and that saved the entire family, you know, those good, those good real stories. And he said, “You know, I wanna do something like that.”

[00:38:08] So, he doesn’t wanna sell, he wanna help, like, literally, truly what you said. He said, “Based on my parents, I wanna help other families who may face that situation.” And so, he found, I said, “You don’t have to be in my class, let’s talk.” So, we sometimes, we talk, we chat. So, finding those mentors coaches are still important because us, because as I said, you know, sometimes you need to talk to individual, but going back to, again, I think technology has made it things very simple, you know, very simple.

[00:38:35] Kristen Wisdorf: But, but how amazing that, I mean, to go back to the original question of, like, what to do if you’re interested in selling, like, this student isn’t necessarily in a class or taking a class, but he reached out, which is the first step in sales. So, maybe it, I mean, it probably is meant for him. And so, I think, I think it’s just a good,

[00:38:53] good piece of advice and a great story to, reach out to someone, have an informational interview or just a coffee chat and talk through it, and, and what a great lesson that selling is about helping, you know, doesn’t matter what you’re selling, but if you’re helping people, fix problems or avoid problems, then, um, you can feel really good about having sales as your career, which is great.

[00:39:15] Joe Reeves: And, and it’s also in that, like, baseline, it’s also about building relationships, like, that also shows like, Raj, even though you’re, you know, the individual in the sales function, like, these students obviously have known you’ve gotten this social reputation of he’s gonna help, you know, he’s happy to talk, right?

[00:39:30] ‘Cause again, that’s what it is, it’s, it’s building relationships, it’s helping others typically, like, and you’ve built that, like, you’ve gotten that social capital that someone who might not even be in your, you know, part of the school, and they’re like, I know that I want to talk to you about these things.

[00:39:45] That’s priceless, you know, why, what a great capture you rate, and to be honest with you, that’s how it’s a win-win, right? So, down the road, if that person tells anybody that, “Hey, you know what, that, you can reach out to that person.” And you don’t have to be in the sales program, and that’s the true social capital.

[00:39:59] Raj Agnihotri: Like, that’s the true branding, personal branding we, all the salespeople, should be aspire for. So, I agree with you, I, I totally agree with you. And if we can make an environment, a learning environment where sales is perceived as something like this, I, I think it’s a win-win for all of us who are involved in this, in this great profession. Yeah.

[00:40:19] Kristen Wisdorf: What’s the most rewarding part of what you’re doing now, being a sales educator at Iowa State?

[00:40:25] Raj Agnihotri: So, many things, one, I just love sales, you know, that, that, anything related to sales, I love it. So, so that’s why I, I, I feel really good when I see it’s growing, it’s changing perceptions at a philosophical level, so that’s one, but at a very, in a human level, what really makes me click and what really makes me smile is, is when I see the evolution of a particular student from being, sitting the front, back bench, shy, “Sales is not more for me,

[00:40:53] I am stuck in this class because I need three hours to graduate.” An evolution of that student from back bench to middle bench and front, from, from fresh role play where she was shy, nervous, walking in, coming out, smiling, second role play, getting better, and then securing top tennis part at the end of the semester, right,

[00:41:15] it’s just helping them find their true potential, right? Because nothing can replace that kick, to be honest with you, when you really help someone, help them realize their true potential. And I think there are a lot of out there, to be honest with you, who can do really good job for themselves, for society, and make good money on top of it, right, I mean.

[00:41:39] Kristen Wisdorf: Which we haven’t even touched on yet, today. Yeah.

[00:41:42] Raj Agnihotri: I tell my students, I say, I say, “You can make a lot of money by telling stories, by being creative, and don’t cut it off by doing the call,” but if you’re in accounting and you’re creative, you go to jail, think about it, how cool my life is.

[00:41:56] Kristen Wisdorf: Oh, that’s great. Okay. Let’s wrap this bad boy up with a couple fast, fun questions. So, just answer the first thing that comes to your mind, Raj.

[00:42:06] Raj Agnihotri: Okay, well, that’s a tough one. Okay.

[00:42:08] Kristen Wisdorf: Okay. What are you world-class at? What’s your superpower?

[00:42:14] Raj Agnihotri: Connect with people.

[00:42:16] Kristen Wisdorf: I love that. I’d agree after spending some time with you today. Okay. Who is the most influential person in your life or career?

[00:42:26] Raj Agnihotri: In my professional career, my professor, Dr. Thomas Brown, he’s retired now when I was pursuing MBA. In my personal life, my mom.

[00:42:35] Kristen Wisdorf: All right, and this one’s one of my favorites. If you could have a billboard anywhere in the world, where would it be, and what would it say?

[00:42:43] Raj Agnihotri: It’ll be on campus here, Iowa State University, or any campus where the students can see every day, and I’ll write this, “The biggest excuse is I don’t have enough time in a day,” is the biggest excuse, and it’s a lie because it is the only resource that is common to each and every human being on the planet earth, they cannot say they have same clean air,

[00:43:05] they cannot say they have same clean water, but everybody got 24 hours in a day. So, basic logic doesn’t fit, and it is up to us if we wanna spend those 24 hours as a teenager or as an entrepreneur.” That’s it.

[00:43:20] Kristen Wisdorf: Well, on that note, great advice, Raj, it’s been an absolute pleasure chatting with you about your experience from engineering to sales, your time as a sales educator, what you’ve done already at Iowa State and kinda what the future holds for your program, as well. We appreciate it.

[00:43:36] Raj Agnihotri: Thank you, Kristen. Thank you, Joe. And really appreciate the opportunity, you all are doing great job, I hope my students listen to this, and I’ll definitely pass it on the, the other recordings.

[00:43:44] Kristen Wisdorf: Yeah.

[00:43:45] Joe Reeves: Hope 

[00:43:46] Kristen Wisdorf: Maybe some extra credit. Just kidding. 

[00:43:49] Raj Agnihotri: No, it’s a good idea.

[00:43:51] Kristen Wisdorf: We’ll see you next time, hustlers. Thanks for joining.

[00:43:53] Joe Reeves: Thank you, Raj.