Episode 122: Max Hufft – Take Care of Your Network

A sales career should be anything but stagnant. While many will begin as entry-level sales reps, that merely serves as the launchpad for the rest of their career endeavors. After all, once you take that first step in sales, the opportunities for growth are truly inexhaustible.

In this episode of Tech Sales is for Hustlers, Max Hufft, now a Senior Solutions Architect at Veracode, explores his journey from being a memoryBlue SDR to transitioning into his present position, while discussing how the SDR position prepared him for his role and taught him the importance of believing in his company’s product.

Guest-At-A-Glance

💡 Name: Max Hufft

💡 What he does: He’s the senior solutions architect at Veracode.

💡 Company: Veracode

💡 Noteworthy: Max used to be an SDR at memoryBlue. He then went on to become a sales engineer for Contrast Security, and now, Veracode. 

💡 Where to find Max: LinkedIn

Key Insights

⚡ What does a solutions architect do? A solutions architect or a sales engineer plays a critical role in an organization. But what does the role entail? Max explains, “Oftentimes, they’re called a solutions architect or sales engineer; that’s pretty much the same. Essentially the main job is just doing demos of the product and being very knowledgeable about the product. It’s not just being able to put on a show but also being able to answer questions and also being insightful and being able to ask certain questions that are probing that are essentially figuring out whole tech stacks of a customer without them even noticing you did that.” 

⚡ The best solutions architects were once BDRs. Despite what some people think, a sales engineer is also a salesperson, not just an engineer. Max explains, “I find some of the best solutions architects are the ones that were former BDRs, and a lot of people that I’ve talked to that are former BDRs are scared about it, or they’re cautious because they think, most of the time, it’s like developer folks and some people who are from engineering. But I’ve found, though, the best ones are usually from BDRs. And they’re a lot more personable. They’re a lot more willing to talk to the customer ’cause we can put engineers in front of anybody. The job is also to be a salesperson. At the same time, it’s half sales, half engineering — but it’s mostly sales.” 

⚡ You’ve got to believe in what you’re selling. Genuine belief in the product you’re selling is a prerequisite for success in sales. Max says, “What I get to do is I get to talk to people and dork out about technologies, and for me, it’s like, I also have to really believe in the tech. That’s one caveat, especially in the security realm, you don’t want to sell somebody falsehood security. So I really have got to believe it’s the best-fit thing for the customer, or also it’s going to come out in the demo. It’s going to come out in the presentation. I come off as this dorky, really dispassionate person about this technology because I believe it. There’s no bullshit. There’s no poker face at all.” 

Episode Highlights

Telephone Communication Is a Valuable Skill in Sales

“Email’s good; it’ll get you the job done, but I think if you want to be good as a sales rep, don’t get wrong, hit your number. But I think if I was a manager of like ISRs or a director, I would definitely make sure anybody I’m hiring or promoting has definitely got that experience of being able to talk to the phone, people are uncomfortable with just picking up random people ’cause you never stop being a BDR.”

Take Care of Your Network

“It’s great just being able to build up those relationships with people that, like this network, you build over time. That’s another really good thing about memoryBlue — the people you meet there now are this network that you use later on.”

Sales Engineers and Account Executives Are a Team

“I found when I have a really good relationship with an AE, they and I are going back-and-forth in a demo — it’s like how you see newscasters will be trading off in different types of a story. It’s the same thing; we’re just like tossing the ball back-and-forth in a demo and being able to essentially make it seem like it’s more of a conversation, which is so important when you’re given a presentation and they’re not saying anything. Everybody’s off-camera eating lunch, and you’ve lost them entirely. It’s great being able to keep it, so it’s not one speaker, and the relationship’s beautiful, and it comes off, and the prospects know it, and the sales teams recognize it too. Sales teams notice when an AE and an SE are doing really well together, and they can see that.”

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Max Hufft: When you’re in a, like, sales process, there is going to be highs and lows, and it’s important to, like, know with every high, like, there’s gonna be a swap.

[00:00:27] Marc Gonyea: Max Hufft joining us this afternoon.

[00:00:31] Max Hufft: Hey, Marc, hey, Chris, it’s great to see you guys again. 

[00:00:33] Chris Corcoran: Great seeing you. 

[00:00:34] Max Hufft: Yeah, it’s, it’s been a few years, I love this new office, it’s great to be back. 

[00:00:38] Marc Gonyea: It’s great.

[00:00:38] Max Hufft: It’s awesome to see how, how far it’s grown, too. I remember the, the little fledgling office we had in San Jose with that one tower at the beginning, and now to see it in, in a very traditional, like, as you would expect it, like Silicon Valley style office. 

[00:00:51] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, yeah. Well, we, we appreciate you coming down from SF, thank you.

[00:00:56] Marc Gonyea: Do you know who’s developed and grown a lot, too?

[00:00:58] Max Hufft: Who?

[00:00:58] Marc Gonyea: You.

[00:00:59] Max Hufft: Yeah. 

[00:01:00] Marc Gonyea: You’re doing, you’re doing some really cool things.

[00:01:02] Max Hufft: Right. 

[00:01:03] Marc Gonyea: Which we’re gonna get to. 

[00:01:04] Max Hufft: Sure. 

[00:01:04] Marc Gonyea: But before we get to that, take us down, you know, a little bio on you, like, where’d you grow up?

[00:01:11] Max Hufft: Absolutely. 

[00:01:12] Marc Gonyea: What were you like, a little bit, we kind of, as a kid, this will kind of, let’s hop into that. So, educate Chris and I, but also the, the listeners. 

[00:01:18] Max Hufft: Sure. Absolutely. So, I grew up a little bit all over California, I was born in Bakersfield and lived there nine years, and then from there, we moved to Eureka, and I lived there for nine years.

[00:01:26] Marc Gonyea: Oh, wow.

[00:01:26] Max Hufft: So, do rural places, I would not live in camp, but I’m, I’m glad we don’t live there anymore. And from there, after, after high school, like I, when planning for college, I was saying was like, like I, I really wanted, like, go, go somewhere, like, go out and like, leave these towns and really make something on myself. So, I applied through the, the different UCs and CSUs, and the one I, I found that I, I drive the most with and also connected it with was UC Santa Cruz.

[00:01:51] Marc Gonyea: And what?

[00:01:52] One, it was a little bit about how it was close to what Humboldt County is like, that’s where Eureka is, um, so it’s like that, but just blown up, like, 10 times aside. So, it was, it was a little bit of familiar home. I knew I, I either wanted to be a performance major ’cause I was also playing the saxophone quite a bit at that time, still do every now and then a little bit today. 

[00:02:11] Marc Gonyea: Bleeding gums Max Hufft. 

[00:02:12] Max Hufft: Yes.

[00:02:15] Marc Gonyea: I got a question for you real quick. 

[00:02:16] Max Hufft: Sure. 

[00:02:16] Marc Gonyea: So, when you’re growing up, what did you think you were gonna do when you got older? 

[00:02:19] Max Hufft: Right. So, I honestly, like, I, you know, there a lot of, people say you need to have a plan, or like, having a vision, but like, I, I really, really didn’t necessarily, I know if I have one, part of me was wondering if like, if I stayed along the music path ’cause, like, that was, like, where I mostly did, mostly doing in, like, high school.

[00:02:36] I’d probably end up being, like, a studio musician. However, I also knew I, I wanted to do something in technology, so I didn’t know what, though. And I was very open to the idea in exploring things, and so.

[00:02:47] Marc Gonyea: Why did you wanna do something in technology, do you think? 

[00:02:48] Max Hufft: I dunno, I just kinda like being in a dork, I, I, I like playing around with shit. And so I, I was excited to also see if I, at school where I can either be a performance maker or also be, going to engineering. And I quickly realized that after, like, a quarter or two, that I like money.

[00:03:07] Marc Gonyea: Why? 

[00:03:08] Max Hufft: Well, yeah, that’s a great, I don’t know, Marc, why do you like money?

[00:03:14] Marc Gonyea: Most up is you have, like, a good job, you earn your own money? 

[00:03:17] Max Hufft: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

[00:03:18] Marc Gonyea: Like, some people who have jobs, they 

[00:03:19] Max Hufft: I didn’t, I didn’t even think about that. So, yeah, I worked every quarter in college, and like, before I even started, I was looking for jobs at school. So, before I even started school, I was actually started in, like, working in food service in the catering department for two, two years. And I actually got that job before school started, so I gotta move in early, um

[00:03:34] Marc Gonyea: So, you had money, and money gave you some flexibility that,

[00:03:38] Max Hufft: Absolutely.

[00:03:38] Marc Gonyea: not tax, so that’s what you like about money, right? 

[00:03:40] Max Hufft: Yeah, sure, that, too. I didn’t, honestly, I didn’t really think about it. So, not until someone else, I guess, is when you think about it, you know? But it’s, throughout college, I always had some type of income going on. After my sophomore year, I was, ended up elected as Vice President of the school, and.

[00:03:58] Chris Corcoran: So, Vice President of the school?

[00:03:59] Max Hufft: The whole school of, like, 17,000 undergraduates. 

[00:04:02] Marc Gonyea: Not Sigma Pi, Vice President of the school.

[00:04:03] Chris Corcoran: Vice President of the school, wow. 

[00:04:04] Max Hufft: Yeah, a lot of people thought I was gonna run for president the next year, but I decided not to, I decided I wanted to pass and graduate on time.

[00:04:11] Marc Gonyea: You look down your constituents. 

[00:04:12] Max Hufft: Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s, I got done what I wanted to get done. It was, there was also just times when I was vice president, I was running, I, I did an all-nighter every Tuesday while doing the, while doing my overdose, which is probably why, but I had, like, 30 paid staff under me. And so, it was, like, a lot of just management, and like, looking over things, and like, it was great being able to be an advocate and a voice for people and also being able to run new programs and exciting events.

[00:04:41] But it comes with a toll, but I think that experience was really important ’cause it also made me kind of realize that I didn’t want to be, like, stuck behind a desk coding all day, every day, and I really enjoyed the people aspect of just, like, the, my whole student government experience. So, I, after college I, I had a, a couple of options. 

[00:04:58] Marc Gonyea: You were Si, so here’s a computer science.

[00:05:00] Max Hufft: Yes, I forgot to mention that, yes.

[00:05:01] Marc Gonyea: Yes, like, that’s.

[00:05:02] Max Hufft: Yeah. 

[00:05:03] Chris Corcoran: Did you graduate with CS degree?

[00:05:04] Max Hufft: I did graduate with CS degree. 

[00:05:06] Chris Corcoran: Baller. 

[00:05:06] Max Hufft: Yeah. 

[00:05:06] Marc Gonyea: Yes. So, that, so what, when you’re, you were in the student government your junior year, you said senior regular graduate on time. Did you think senior year you’re gonna get in into tech, like, as the coding side of the world? What did you think you’re gonna do?

[00:05:21] Max Hufft: I realized my senior year I didn’t want to, but I knew I was like.

[00:05:24] Marc Gonyea: Solid. 

[00:05:25] Max Hufft: Yeah, but I realized after, like, I’ve been working all this much paying for all this for loans that I’ve peed up, but also paying off it to some, and like, I was like, I have to, like, I have to at least finish this degree, I can’t, like, switch up now. So, I was like, well, it’s also computer science is a very respectful degree no matter what you wanna do,

[00:05:41] Marc Gonyea: Absolutely, yes. 

[00:05:41] Max Hufft: no matter what you wanna do with it, it’s very versatile, whether it’s VS or the VA, or any variation of it, it’s, you can, you, like, a lot of people I work with now in my later career that I found are, like, VPs, even a few piece of sales or computer science, and I, I think that’s pretty common across the technician. 

[00:05:58] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. All right. So, what would you think you were gonna do then? June come, May, May comes?

[00:06:03] Max Hufft: Right. So, I, actually, like, I didn’t end up having to take an extra quarter, so it came around December, and around, once that, once that happened, like, I was trying to, I had a couple options, I actually had an, I had an offer for a job where I can go coding, and then for just a little bit less money, I also got a job at memoryBlue. I made the right decision, and I went for the less money. 

[00:06:28] Marc Gonyea: So, why’d you, you weren’t interested in?

[00:06:30] Max Hufft: Yeah, absolutely. I knew I was gonna be bored and miserable, like, it just, it’s, not, not to knock, like, coding as a profession or a job or anything, it’s just, it wasn’t me, it’s not something I knew I could enjoy myself doing.

[00:06:41] And I, I really enjoyed, like, from my interview pro, process of learning from Mike and Jeanne, like, the different.

[00:06:48] Marc Gonyea: Mike Mishler and Jeanne Ball.

[00:06:50] Max Hufft: Is there, is there a certain time you have to ring the bell, is it for.

[00:06:52] Marc Gonyea: For alums, yeah.

[00:06:53] Max Hufft: Oh, okay. So, anytime we, an alum, gets mentioned, you have to?

[00:06:55] Marc Gonyea: Yes.

[00:06:55] Max Hufft: Oh, God, we’re gonna be ringing all day. So, working with them, I was really excited just seeing like all these.

[00:07:02] Marc Gonyea: How’d you get in memoryBlue?

[00:07:04] Max Hufft: So, it actually showed up on my career portal, and like, that was, like, the one good thing on the career portal, our career portal wasn’t that good, it wasn’t that well invested in, I would say, and so it was, it was nice seeing, like, like what, you know?

[00:07:17] And it was, it was a fair interview process, and it was a very exciting time to work with, and like, get out in college, it was very engaging, but also it was fun, too. I think it was, like, for, if I, looking back on it, like, I wouldn’t do it now because it was just, it’s a bunch of, like, younger 20-year-olds in sales, I mean we, we got after it, man, so.

[00:07:36] Marc Gonyea: You wouldn’t do now in your age, now? 

[00:07:38] Max Hufft: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:07:38] Marc Gonyea: But you, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:07:40] Max Hufft: No, I recommend it, though, like for anybody starting in sales, like, memoryBlue really sets you ahead on the pack. And I’m not just pandering that because I’m talking to the Co-Founders right now, but it’s the truth, though.

[00:07:50] And this is something I found when working at, like, job after job, anytime I’m working with different BDR, like overall standard of what you consider to be KPIs or what you can think is, like, a work ethic and what you wanna get done is completely different. It’s like night and day, and like,

[00:08:06] I heard a little bit about that when I was working at memoryBlue, but I was like, “Oh, they’re just saying that, they’re just saying that, it’s like how we’re gonna have to go write cursive later when we get older.” Something like, we’re never gonna have a calculator around, like, that’s not true. Well, it is. 

[00:08:21] Marc Gonyea: What do you remember from when you started? So, did you know what you’re getting yourself into? 

[00:08:25] Max Hufft: No, not really. 

[00:08:25] Marc Gonyea: Okay. So, walk us through that. 

[00:08:27] Max Hufft: Yeah. So, I knew it was cold calling, and I knew we were getting meetings, but I didn’t, I didn’t understand the concept of like, like, how the clients work with us, all that, all that well, it was something that I, I kind of had to figure out, like, it was, 

[00:08:40] because it is a part of our business model from, like, for someone who’s, like, never worked in, like, the working world, like kind of explaining, like, it’s kind of outsource, it’s kind of not, it’s kind of in-house, it’s kind of, it’s like, it’s kind of its own thing,

[00:08:51] so, it was interesting working with such a weird variety of clients, and that, that was something I got to enjoy, like, working in that full 15 months, like, I definitely had, like, a couple clients that were, like, on for the longest, but there’s somewhere, like, I’m like, I learned a lot about how to, I, I’m not trying to, I won’t, I won’t mention any names, 

[00:09:12] but like, how to not run business, I would say. You know, there’s some, there’s some great clients out there that are just like, I see, you see why they need the help ’cause the product just doesn’t make any, something like that. Yeah. So, I, I got to see some really cool products that were coming out there, and they’re really, like, help my career along, but also, you know, some of it’s, some to, like, you know, as a, as a learning lesson from them.

[00:09:36] Marc Gonyea: That’s such a skill, right? You’re, you’re learning that, you know, get people to spend their most precious asset, their time, to learn about a, a technology that, you know, may or may not make it. Who are we to, right, decide? 

[00:09:50] Max Hufft: Oh, absolutely. 

[00:09:50] Marc Gonyea: I know, but we get some inkling on it ’cause we’re doing the front end of the work. 

[00:09:54] Max Hufft: Sure. 

[00:09:54] Marc Gonyea: But then that’s a skill. When you were acquiring that part skill, like what, just walk us through that process like, was it, was, you were working with a bunch of other 20-year-olds, you said. Who, who, were you learning from them? You learned from the process, like?

[00:10:06] Max Hufft: Right. So,

[00:10:07] Marc Gonyea: Was it hard? 

[00:10:08] Max Hufft: It is challenging, I mean, I’m not gonna tell anybody that, like, picking up a phone and calling, like, around 120 times a day isn’t, isn’t something you gotta put yourself out there, right? I would recommend anybody who’s done something though that like, you have to put yourself out there though,

[00:10:22] like, if you’ve ever done any type of sports, or in my case, if you’ve ever had to, like, work, like, do a lot of sales or a lot of improv, like, it’s almost the same feeling. I, I, that’s why I think it came a lot more naturally to me just being able to, like, dive in there and talk to people, like, and not even care, I’m just like, oh, I’m just gonna talk to this,

[00:10:40] “How’s it going? I can’t, did I catch you at a good time?” So, I, I, I would, like, tell anybody who’s had that experience, like, like, whether it be through sports or anytime you really just have to put yourself out there or any type of fundraising even kind of summary of situation,

[00:10:57] you’re probably gonna do really well within the same type of role. And that’s, that was my experience, and it real, like, it kind of, I had that, once I realized it was, like, kind of that same moment to click for me and, losing my train of thought on it, otherwise, other things that were challenging with it though,

[00:11:14] I would say, like, keeping up with just how to, like, plan for your future work. So, that means, like, building lists and being, having different campaigns ready to go on instead of, ’cause like, oftentimes you just get started, you think about, like, what your daily tasks are, like, “How can I get through these meetings?”

[00:11:29] Max Hufft: But like, I, what I found to be successful and what really keeps you going there, and like, really what makes your client successful is, like, once you get the ball rolling, being able to plan your next cadences, plan your next list, that’s what makes, like, that, like, I think planning ahead and giving them the mindset is what, what ended up helping me out throughout the long term.

[00:11:48] Marc Gonyea: Who’d you work with back then from memoryBlue days? 

[00:11:51] Max Hufft: Sure. So, the clients or people or? 

[00:11:53] Marc Gonyea: Both.

[00:11:54] Max Hufft: So, my main clients, my first one was Airframe, and that was a cool technology, I think they’ve folded since, though, so I’m glad I didn’t go with them on that. Um, my second one was ThreatMetrix, and I think that’s what helped me muddy with my career the most

[00:12:06] ’cause that put me in the fraud space, which then I was able to leverage that experience into a security role. Then I also, working back to that, yeah, I was on them full-time for quite a while, and then I was on inspection company. 

[00:12:18] Marc Gonyea: Perfect Reports.

[00:12:19] Max Hufft: No, I was on Perfect Reporting for a minute, we’ll talk about that off the, there was some fun tactics we used to get them meetings ’cause it was 

[00:12:28] Marc Gonyea: Challenging.

[00:12:29] Max Hufft: it was, it was an interesting product, but, so you gotta get creative, I’d like to say, I’ll tell you those stories later, but 

[00:12:37] Marc Gonyea: Who’d you work with? What SDRs, remember who of SDRs were your contemporaries? 

[00:12:40] Max Hufft: So, I, I remember I work with Paris on

[00:12:45] Marc Gonyea: Okay, Paris. 

[00:12:46] Max Hufft: Uh, yeah, for Airframe, and then at ThreatMetrix, I was on with Dan Yorkey.

[00:12:50] Marc Gonyea: Mr. Yorkey. 

[00:12:51] Max Hufft: Yes. 

[00:12:52] Marc Gonyea: Okay.

[00:12:52] Max Hufft: Yeah, Dan was interesting, it was good seeing someone, like, who had, like, what I would see, like, a method of excellence to get meetings set, so then I was just like, okay, I’m gonna go and try to copy all that, which I recommend anybody doing

[00:13:05] if they see someone who is doing really well in almost the same role, figure, just copy it, there’s no shame, figure it out, make it your own, but like,

[00:13:13] Marc Gonyea: Make it your own.

[00:13:14] Max Hufft: Like, take that little bit of excellence and just be like, “This is mine now.”

[00:13:21] Marc Gonyea: What is, so you saw Yorkey and maybe any the others

[00:13:23] Chris Corcoran: Paris. 

[00:13:25] Marc Gonyea: doing their thing. What did you kind of make your own, though? Like, what, what, what was, what was the reaction? What’s your signature? 

[00:13:30] Max Hufft: So, for those, like, Dan was one of the few people that was able to get, like, really good meanings from emails. And so, I was like, well, like, ’cause like, memoryBlue isn’t big on emails, and like, and I, I don’t think it should be either, I think, like, and this is something I’ll, I’m gonna do a little sidebar here. 

[00:13:45] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, sidebar what you want, it’s your podcast.

[00:13:48] Max Hufft: So, well, not sidebar outta the pocket, table this part of the conversation, we’ll come, we’ll come back to this. So, there, there’s a little tip for anybody in the SDR role on this, do the calls, even if you’re getting, like, meetings from emails, like when it comes to being an ISR or any other thing afterwards, like, you need to be able to just comfortably talk 

[00:14:09] to strangers and just, like, because if you were gonna call once, like, it’s gonna become a much bigger problem later on. Like, I, I’ve seen, like, a lot of, like, a lot of SDRs not convert outside of memoryBlue because, like, they’re, they’re, they were not too well once they’re an ISR, ISR is an inside 

[00:14:27] representative for those on the, the podcast, but it’s, that’s, it’s huge. Uh, so back to Dan here.

[00:14:34] Marc Gonyea: We talk, we’ll probably just little more sidebar. Yeah, we talk about that on memoryBlue sales calls, how much do you use email, use email all the time.

[00:14:41] Max Hufft: Right? Email’s good, I mean, it’ll, it’ll get you the job done, but I think if you, like, want to be good as a sales rep, I mean, like, don’t get me wrong, hit your number, but like, I, I think if I was, like, a manager of, like, ISRs, or like, a director, I would definitely make sure, like, anybody I’m hiring or 

[00:14:58] promoting up has definitely got that experience of being able to talk to the phone with people and comfortable with, like, just picking up random people because you never stop being a BDR, right? Like, it’s, is that another one?

[00:15:09] Chris Corcoran: That’s just a pearl, wait, it’s a second time we heard that today. 

[00:15:11] Max Hufft: Yeah, it’s true though, yeah, like, and this is something, like, I’ve heard VPs of sales say too, you never stop being a BDR, you never stop being able to, just constantly nagging people seeing this opportunity and seeing for, like, who you can bring in and how you can, like, create more business. 

[00:15:24] Marc Gonyea: You know what you can’t do, Max? 

[00:15:25] Max Hufft: What?

[00:15:25] Marc Gonyea: You can’t qualify a meeting over email. 

[00:15:29] Max Hufft: Yeah, yeah

[00:15:30] Marc Gonyea: You can’t, you can’t, you can’t do discovery in an email, you can’t, you can book, right? You can book a meeting, but if you wanna get good at it

[00:15:37] Max Hufft: You can do, like, a little qualification email, but like, I think it’s still half-assed in, not, you can’t, you can’t ju, just like, you can’t judge how, like, interested they are, you can’t get their tone of voice. And so, you can’t, like, you can’t just give it a little sniff test beforehand

[00:15:52] ’cause like, you can email, like, yes, whatever. But if you get ’em on the phone, they’re like real, you can either see enthusiasm or not hear the enthusiasm, but prepare people to say, “Hey, there’s, they’re not that enthusiastic when you to hook ’em in a little bit.” Yep, um, so it’s 

[00:16:04] Marc Gonyea: All sorts of stuff.

[00:16:04] Max Hufft: Yeah, stuff like that ’cause it’s like, you know, like, a rep’s got if meets gonna take beat, so, you just wanna make sure you can see, tell them like, “Hey, it’s like, like, bring, bring the dog and pony show, or like, really try to bring him in on this one and set him up for something.” 

[00:16:20] Marc Gonyea: All right. So, going back, sidebar completed. Yorkey, you and Yorkey were doing your thing, and what was yours? What was yours?

[00:16:26] Max Hufft: So, I, I tried to copy his email campaigns, yeah, exactly, and see, like, all right, what’s successful here, how am I gonna make this my own? And it’s totally going against my own, but again, you got ’em, you got ’em to hit quoted, damn, we gotta…

[00:16:40] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, you were talking to enough people, I’m sure. 

[00:16:42] Max Hufft: Yeah. And so, like, that, that is ideal, is being, again, copying the success of someone else, for me it was seeing how that multitouch email of, like, very personal, like, way of setting things up, setting certain emails were, were able to copy over. 

[00:16:59] Marc Gonyea: How much do you think your computer science degree and background helped with all the tech?

[00:17:04] Max Hufft: You know what, it helped me pick up certain clients a lot easier, like, I really understood what ThreatMetrix was doing pretty easily. Things like Airframes, that was like, it’s, it was like a surveillance type company. So, that one, like, I know, I think anybody could have picked up,

[00:17:16] but there was, like, clients that people had, like, I didn’t have, but I, I kind of, I, I saw ’em in the office, and I helped explain them what the, there was like, a lot of times we get a new client that was really confusing, like there was this one, I’m trying to remember the name of it, it essentially took, like, this, like, tableau-type software, and like, helped data aggregates to it in, like, a faster way or something.,

[00:17:37] But I was trying to explain it to, like, someone who was formally, like, a school teacher who knows nothing about this stuff, they probably took, like, a psych degree or something and like, so it was nice having that then, but it really came in, in handy. And during, when I, after I worked from SourceClear from the Source, query, SourceClear

[00:17:54] Marc Gonyea: SourceClear.

[00:17:55] SourceClear to Veracode acquisition, that’s when it helped them up.

[00:17:59] Marc Gonyea: Really? Okay.

[00:17:59] Max Hufft: Yeah, because when that acquisition happened, there I had, I had, like, three different route types, and it was really, it was really interesting, I’m gonna, I’m jumping around. 

[00:18:08] Marc Gonyea: We’ll get that, we’ll get, we’ll get to that. 

[00:18:09] Max Hufft: Sure.

[00:18:10] Marc Gonyea: Okay. So, you’re at memoryBlue, doing your thing, you’re working with this crew, who else, do you remember any of the cronies back then? Any of your UC Santa Cruz folks? 

[00:18:17] Max Hufft: Yeah, so, uh, my, this is actually where I met my current best friend, Joe Reeves. 

[00:18:22] Marc Gonyea: Joe Reeves. 

[00:18:22] Max Hufft: Yeah. So, we’re gonna have multiple rings here. 

[00:18:24] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. Yep.

[00:18:25] Max Hufft: So, I, I joined a month before him and I never let him live it down. 

[00:18:28] Marc Gonyea: You, you joined before him?

[00:18:29] Max Hufft: I joined a month before he did. 

[00:18:31] Marc Gonyea: Wow.

[00:18:32] Max Hufft: I, I came up from that ’cause I heard somebody was from Santa Cruz and I always try to get people’s two truths, one lie. And I was really good at that ’cause it was always the most obvious thing that was the lie, people always put mundane stuff is the truth, so 

[00:18:44] Marc Gonyea: We still do that, by the way. 

[00:18:45] Max Hufft: Yeah, I hope so, just probably someone else like me right now who has to go forget. Like I, I had, like, the most of it, I always had one ready. So, I go up to him, and I’m like, we’re, and I started, ask what, it’s so funny, like, our first conversation was an argument. We, we, we were, we’re trying to figure out, I was like, “Oh, you’re from Santa Cruz?

[00:19:05] No way.” “Where are you from? Like, what part of Santa Cruz?” “Oh, is that this one spot? And you, do you know where burger is?” “Of course, I know where burger is.” And like, we ended up narrowing down, like, he lived at this house.

[00:19:14] Marc Gonyea: He told me that. 

[00:19:15] Max Hufft: Yeah, that, he swears is called Costco, but he is absolutely wrong. 

[00:19:20] Marc Gonyea: Oh, he always says that.

[00:19:22] Max Hufft: ‘Cause he’s wrong, and he, he just wants, he keeps, like, building up this line in his head that it’s still called Costco Reese, but even though we all call it, my friend, his name is Chris Pickles, so we call it the Pickle Palace. So, he, he thinks he lives in this Pickle Palace called Costco, but it’s, it’s not. And so, we just had this argument, like, right here in the middle of like, the whole floor.

[00:19:42] Marc Gonyea: But you guys did not know each other.

[00:19:43] Max Hufft: We didn’t know each other.

[00:19:44] Marc Gonyea: That’s so, like, 

[00:19:44] Max Hufft: Right there in that moment, like, within like, like, three questions, we ended up figure out like, all right, we gotta settle this. And so, we ended up, like, making, like, one of our, like, the strongest friendships.

[00:19:55] And like, I still have, like, regular friends that I, I hang out with on a daily basis, like my friends, Jonathan Adams, Taylor Moore, um, I was just hanging with those last weekend. I’m gonna go do trivia with Taylor later this night.

[00:20:07] Marc Gonyea: Oh, cool. 

[00:20:07] Max Hufft: Yeah. And so, it’s, it’s great just being able to build up those relationships with people that, like, this network you build over time, that’s another really good thing about nemoryBlue is the, the people you meet there now are this network that you use later on because, like, now in my, like, spot, my career, I also have friends with, like, in this spot in my career, like, for an instance, there was a moment where Colin knew she was over at before he was at LinkedIn.

[00:20:34] And he was, like, having some issues with this RFP, RFP process, and I remember, like, Veracode had this really good process set up for its RFP process, really cool tool, and I was like, “You need to go and talk to this person.” And so, I like, put them, I parlayed a conversation for them, and like, Colin adopted everything on that.

[00:20:50] And so, like, that was also, like, a little bit of everything, not just helping people get jobs, but also just, like, helping you with different, like, initiatives or things you have to do at work. 

[00:20:57] Marc Gonyea: It’s awesome. 

[00:20:58] Max Hufft: Yeah, it was, it was great using that experience and being able to help people, but like, again, these are all people on that, at memoryBlue at the time.

[00:21:05] Marc Gonyea: That’s wonderful. So, so, you do this memoryBlue thing. When did you, when did you kind of get this idea what you wanted to do next? Like, did you wanna, because you did the tour duty, you saw people come, you saw people go, get up by clients, maybe some rising stars, you saw people stay and get promoted, right, so you saw all sorts of different things. What did you think you wanted to do? 

[00:21:29] Max Hufft: So, 

[00:21:30] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, were you still, right?

[00:21:32] Max Hufft: I didn’t know, I saw, didn’t know at that point, yeah, and that’s all right, you can have, you can be undecided. I, I knew I was going to move to the city, and the city being San Francisco, after this.

[00:21:43] And so, the move from San Jose to San Francisco, those that are listening, it’s a little bit of a drive, it’s about 40, 50 minutes, and it’s a little bit of a distance, but still not leaving the area, but. So, my first whole thing was like, I gotta get a job of paper. So, I was interviewing and ended up coming across a company that had, 

[00:22:01] I was already, it was funny, I was already in, like, the in-person interview stage of this company. By the way, for anybody listening, if, when you’re in the interview process, I would recommend after, because especially after a year being in memoryBlue, recruiters have you all the time, maybe not so much right now with all these layoffs happening, but like, I was getting, like, five hit-ups a week.

[00:22:20] And like, when I finally went to interview through the interview process, I did, like, 12 phone screens in the first week. 

[00:22:26] Marc Gonyea: Wow.

[00:22:26] Max Hufft: And then, yeah, I was getting that job. And then, um, I did, uh, uh, three on-sites the next week, and one of the on-sites was with this company called SourceClear, and I just happened to notice of the people in there was former alumni of the year, Taylor Pierce.

[00:22:41] Marc Gonyea: TP.

[00:22:42] Chris Corcoran: Oh, wow. 

[00:22:42] Max Hufft: Yeah. 

[00:22:43] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, man. 

[00:22:43] Max Hufft: And so.

[00:22:44] Chris Corcoran: And you knew, you knew who he was, and 

[00:22:45] Max Hufft: Yeah, I met him once when he came and visited the office, but like, we didn’t know each other.

[00:22:49] Chris Corcoran: Right. But you knew he was, he kind of came from memoryBlue?

[00:22:52] Max Hufft: Right. Absolutely, yeah. No, yeah, I, I saw, like, all, all this different stuff because he was the first alumni of the year, I saw, like, a lot of his stuff on LinkedIn. So, at like, I think it was either right before right or right after that interview, like I hit him up, I was like, “All right, tell me about this company, is it legit? Like, is it, like, is it, is it really gonna take off, is the technology cool?” And like, he really convinced me the technology was really cool, but also was able to put in a good word for me. 

[00:23:14] Marc Gonyea: Oh, wow. 

[00:23:14] Max Hufft: Yeah. So, it was, it, it was nice getting that job, and like, the offer was fantastic. For me, when I was like 22, they paid me 60/40, so 60K base, 40 OTE.

[00:23:22] Marc Gonyea: Wow.

[00:23:23] Max Hufft: I know. And so, when I got the job, and like, when you, like, they gave me, like, central territory, which is supposedly the worst territory, but I don’t care, like, you can tell me, I’m gonna get, like, so much meeting, so much per meeting, like it’s 40 grand, like. 

[00:23:34] Marc Gonyea: You’re coming out of memoryBlue, too, right? It’s ha, it’s hard, like this, we’re working with startups, do creative things to put meaning, source their, if TP is working.

[00:23:44] Max Hufft: I don’t care, that was a ton of meaning for me, like you, like, even now for me, I would be like, “Yeah, sure, why not? I’ll, like, pick up the phones a little bit.” Just ’cause, like, kind of cash, but like, you already grand for it your on-target earnings, like, that’s so much, I was like.

[00:23:55] Marc Gonyea: Unattainable.

[00:23:56] Max Hufft: Yeah. And so, I, I like, I, I, I went pretty hard on the dials when they first got it ’cause I was like, I need to figure out how good the data set is. So, I was like, let’s just burn through everything, it was mostly discover word and whatever they had their Salesforce. So, I was going, like, ignorant. There was one week I did 300 dials a day just to see how many connections I would make, and I… 

[00:24:16] Marc Gonyea: This guy is testing the quality of the code.

[00:24:20] Max Hufft: Well, I, I wanted to see what I can get to my connections, it’s all about the conversations, whatever you can do to get to the conversations, I can lead you to the meetings, I don’t care about the dials ’cause like, you can do 300 dials before lunch, right? Like, it’s just like, if you’re not, nobody’s picking up the phone, nobody’s picking up the phone. So, it, the data set was not good, but I don’t care.

[00:24:36] Like, I was getting through it, I was just making connections, I was getting some meetings. But like, but then the first, like, three months of the job, like, I, it was just me putting up the activity, there was two other BDRs, and they were doing, like, 60 activities a day, with maybe, like, 60 of those activities, like, five calls.

[00:24:52] Marc Gonyea: Wow. 

[00:24:52] Max Hufft: So, I know, and they come from like big, they came from big shops, like, when I, very mature, like, setups. This is a Series A startup, we gotta be scraping, so.

[00:25:02] Marc Gonyea: People are coming like or something. 

[00:25:04] Max Hufft: Yeah. So, we just need meet, essentially something like that, it wasn’t an Oracle, but like, certain, certain companies, you know, I’ll say that.

[00:25:11] Chris Corcoran: Household names.

[00:25:11] Max Hufft: Household names. 

[00:25:12] Marc Gonyea: It’s a little bit of a different experience.

[00:25:14] Max Hufft: Yeah. And so, like, I don’t remember was this lunch, we were out on, like, a Friday after three months of being there, I was like, “Ah, I don’t know guys, like, how much you’re paying us, and like, how much, like, we’re bringing in, like, something’s not align enough or this isn’t sustainable, like, I’m no chief finance officer by any means, but this makes no sense.”

[00:25:34] And then, like, a week later, they, they pulled me aside on the Monday, and they got rid of the entire marketing team, the other two BDRs, and it was just me, that was it, like, they got, they, they, they walked me outside, and they were like, “All right, so what, right now we’re having this conversation.” Well, there’s also another conversation having, they’re, like, giving everyone these, like.

[00:25:51] Marc Gonyea: They kept you

[00:25:52] Max Hufft: They kept me.

[00:25:53] Marc Gonyea: because of your 300,000 calls, you were just testing the data.

[00:25:56] Max Hufft: A, absolutely, but I was also getting meetings, too.

[00:25:58] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, I know, but that they were like, “This guy, he’s gonna make it work.” What, what, what?

[00:26:03] Max Hufft: I can win with this.

[00:26:04] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, right, I can win with this.

[00:26:05] Max Hufft: I can ask Taylor Pierce about it, too, like, he’ll, he’ll, he’ll also verify, too, it was such an interesting time. And then, like, I wanna

[00:26:14] Marc Gonyea: So, what, Max, what a great story to tell, I mean, not the, not the, you know, God bless the people who got let go, right, they’re gonna end up okay, let go, take that and sit in the middle of it all 

[00:26:24] Max Hufft: Yeah, each of them are doing well, so.

[00:26:26] Marc Gonyea: They said, “You’re staying, we want you to stick around.”

[00:26:28] Max Hufft: Yeah, I was like, “Shit.” At first, I was worried about my job security, but ’cause I was like, well, like, ’cause that was, like, half to three months. 

[00:26:37] Chris Corcoran: And you just moved up to SF.

[00:26:38] Max Hufft: Yeah, I was like, “Shoot.” But it, no, it turned out to be, like, a, a sign of more things to come ’cause around eight months later we got acquired by Veracode. And at first when that happened, every, like, ’cause I was, that office, and like, that company, too, it’s like a Series A people, and like, people who work for Series A, Series B companies like to work for Series A, Series B companies,

[00:26:57] they just enjoy the scrappiness of it, they didn’t wanna be absorbed by the giant conglomerate. But like, when I was happening, I was like, this could be opportunity here, um, I was a little worried ’cause everyone else was like, “Oh, shoot, there goes the neighborhood, giant acquisition, everyone’s gonna be let go.”

[00:27:10] But that was not the case, the, at that time, Veracode was owned by CA technologies and they have this whole, like, mergers and acquisitions team that tries to, like, do right by every company they acquired, keep everybody on and not try to fire everybody and, like, to solve major branches of every company.

[00:27:24] Max Hufft: Instead, they, they wanna make sure everyone was, like, doing very well and got more than what they wanted out of an acquisition. And so, when that happened for me, like, within a week of that happening, they flew me out to their HQ in Boston, and I got to see essentially, like, how all the different organizations work.

[00:27:39] And I remember there was this really nice lady named Emily Fernando that helped me, like, navigate the waters of that organization. And from there, I was able to see, essentially, what their account management looked like, what their insight sales reps looked like, but also their, what their sales insurance are fund. So, I got to see all three of those and get to meet with each three of those managers.

[00:27:58] Marc Gonyea: Oh, wow.

[00:27:58] Max Hufft: And so, this was, like, a huge opportunity for me to, like, make a move, and I was most impressed by the solutions architecture team, the sales engineering team, and that just seemed like such a natural fit, I got to see what they do over the demos, and I was like, “This just seems like fun.” And at, at that point. 

[00:28:12] Marc Gonyea: So, you were an SDR. 

[00:28:13] Max Hufft: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:28:14] Marc Gonyea: And then the acquisition, then you get, hey, 1, 2, 3, oh, that’s ’cause you, you

[00:28:18] Max Hufft: And I could’ve stayed, I coud’ve stayed as a BDR if I wanted to, I was like, I’m not gonna do that, if there’s like, an opportunity for promotion, like a career growth, I’m like, I’m gonna take that, sure, yeah, and so

[00:28:28] Marc Gonyea: You know what we tell people, though, and they don’t believe us?

[00:28:30] Max Hufft: Sure. 

[00:28:31] Marc Gonyea: If you’re an SDR and you’re listening, and you want get into sales office, or if you want get

[00:28:35] Chris Corcoran: Sales engineering.

[00:28:36] Marc Gonyea: you wanna get into sales engineering, like, I was, best way to do that is to be good as an SDR because then it gives you so much street cred, I mean, it certainly helps you. 

[00:28:46] Max Hufft: Yeah, they wanna, they wanna retain you, yeah, and they wanna make, because they, they also wanna invest in you and see you do better at, like, in another organization, people wanna steal you for, um, which is essentially what was happening

[00:28:55] Marc Gonyea: Because they know if you can perform as an SDR, it’s a hard ass job, you can do that, and this person 

[00:29:01] Max Hufft: Absolutely, it is as tough as nail’s job, like if, if you can cut it at that, like you’re gonna do, like, much better at, like, any, any other like, like any other type role. It’s a good proving ground, for sure. 

[00:29:12] Marc Gonyea: Did you know, though, before the acquisition that, hey, maybe I want to kind of give this, so you kind of knew where

[00:29:18] Max Hufft: I was thinking about it because my, my current boss, at the time at SourceClear, like mentioned that was a career path, and I was like, this seems like something that I can deal, um, and I got to use, like, some of my more former, like, yeah, like technology experience. 

[00:29:30] And so, it was, it was something I was thinking about, but like, when it, when I finally got the opportunity, I was like, this just seems right, it just, and it felt so natural getting into the role, I loved doing presentations ’cause the whole job is just doing presentations, doing proof of concepts

[00:29:42] Marc Gonyea: Tell, tell SDR, tell people right now, or SDRs, they don’t even know what that means. 

[00:29:45] Max Hufft: Sure, yeah. 

[00:29:45] Marc Gonyea: So, like, break down the job. 

[00:29:47] Max Hufft: Absolutely. 

[00:29:47] Marc Gonyea: Basic details. 

[00:29:48] Max Hufft: You got it. So, for, oftentimes, they would be calling it, like, a solutions architect or sales engineer, that’s pretty much the same. For, essentially, the main job is just doing demos of the, the product and being very knowledgeable about the product, it’s not just being able to, like, put on a show, but also being able to, like, answer, like, questions and also being insightful and being able to ask certain questions that are, like, poking product that are essentially as, like, figuring out whole tech stacks of a customer without them even noticing you did that

[00:30:16] ’cause sometimes, like, some people are like, “We, uh, we’re not here to discuss anything about us, like, just tell, just, just show us the product,” that tells us no, like, we can’t sell you shit if we don’t know how to work it, like, we don’t know how’s gonna work in your environment, like we, we, if we can’t find out, we don’t support your language,

[00:30:28] Max Hufft: you won’t tell us anything about it, like, we’re gonna hang up, we can’t support you, we’re gonna fail fast and get out of there, so

[00:30:35] Marc Gonyea: That’s that sales side of you, too, though ’cause you. 

[00:30:37] Max Hufft: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:30:38] Marc Gonyea: I gotta know before the show.

[00:30:39] Max Hufft: Oh, yeah, definitely. And that’s why I find, like, some of the best, like, solutions architects, ones that were former BDRs and a lot of. 

[00:30:45] Marc Gonyea: Oh, really?

[00:30:46] Max Hufft: Yeah, and a lot of people that I’ve talked to that are former, let’s say, or not former, former BDRs, or are scared about it, or they’re cautious because they think, like, most of the time it’s like, developer folks, and like, some people who are from engineering, but I’ve found though, like, the best ones are usually from, from BDRs.

[00:31:06] And so, it’s, it’s really just a, they’re, they’re a lot more personable, they’re a lot more willing to talk to the customer ’cause like, we can put engineers in front of anybody, the job is also to be, like, a salesperson, too, at the same time, it’s half sales, hast, have engineering, but it’s mostly sales have fun.

[00:31:20] And the ones that be successful, too, but there, don’t get me wrong, there’s definitely really successful, and sales engineers out there are also from an engineering background.

[00:31:28] Chris Corcoran: Cocktail Kevin.

[00:31:30] Marc Gonyea: Yes, Kevin, if you’re listening. 

[00:31:32] Chris Corcoran: So, one of Marc and I’s very first clients, we, we met one of their engineers, sales engineers, and he would just tell us that, he’s like, I don’t, I don’t, he’s like “This is not a job for me,” he’s like, “I feel like I’m just going to a cocktail party.” And I just talked about technology and how we can help him, or how we, he loved his job, and I know, for me, back at F5, I love my sales engineer, and like, they can make a huge difference.

[00:31:58] Max Hufft: Oh, absolutely. 

[00:31:58] Chris Corcoran: And, and it sounds like you, you really love what you’re doing. 

[00:32:00] Max Hufft: Oh, I love what I do. It’s fantastic, man, like, all I, all I, like, what I get to do is I get to talk to people and dork out about technologies, and like, for me, too, is, like, I also have to really believe in the tech, that’s one caveat,

[00:32:12] like, ’cause there is, like, especially in the security realm, like, you don’t wanna sell somebody a falsehood security. So, like, I really gotta believe it’s the best fit thing the customer wants, or it’s, it’s gonna come out in the demo, it’s gonna come out in the presentation. 

[00:32:22] Marc Gonyea: Sure. 

[00:32:23] Max Hufft: I come off as, like, this dorky, like, really just passionate person about this technology because, like, I believe it, there’s no, there’s no bullshit, there’s no poker face at all, and I, I have a shit poker face. So, it’s, it works out great ’cause I do come off as a genuine authentic because I am being genuine. 

[00:32:38] Marc Gonyea: People believe that. 

[00:32:39] Max Hufft: Yeah, no, it’s, ’cause it’s the truth, too. 

[00:32:42] Marc Gonyea: It’s the truth, that’s what I mean. 

[00:32:43] Max Hufft: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:32:43] Marc Gonyea: Like, they believe in kind of what you’re selling, and they make some things ’cause most people don’t have that sort of selling style. 

[00:32:50] Chris Corcoran: So, so, you, the acquisition happens, you go career shopping, you pick the third card. 

[00:32:55] Max Hufft: Right. 

[00:32:56] Chris Corcoran: And what happens then? 

[00:32:57] 

[00:33:59] Max Hufft: So, okay, I, so, then we come back to the, the SF office and a lot of the people are leaving, are trying to get me to go to their other companies with them, 

[00:34:06] Marc Gonyea: Sure.

[00:34:07] Max Hufft: and which I, which I was fond of. 

[00:34:08] Chris Corcoran: As an SE, as an SDR? 

[00:34:09] Max Hufft: Yeah, as an SDR, yeah. And so, but like, these were people that, like, I really looked up to that were also successful in their careers. And it also, like for me, that was the, I was like, oh, this is the invite, it was the first time I realized that people usually go company to company together.

[00:34:23] And like, you don’t realize as an SDR ’cause you’re still on the ground floor, you don’t realize that, like, a lot of people don’t apply for jobs anymore, they like, they have someone like, I like to call lander who goes and lands, and like, susses the company out. And then they say, like, “Do they believe in that, or is the technology good?

[00:34:37] They think it’s gonna take off.” And then they go and bring in all their friends. And so, that’s, I was getting.

[00:34:42] Marc Gonyea: Lander. 

[00:34:42] Max Hufft: Yeah, lander, and then they go and bring in everybody else, like it’s, I, I’ve gotten to do that at once. But we’ll get to that later and, so, wait, I was, I realized I was getting invited, and I was like, “Oh, this is cool.”

[00:34:55] I’m like, and like, there was, I, I denied them first ’cause I really thought there was, like, some there with Veracode, and then they called me inside, and I was like, “No.” They were like, “We really think you should consider this.” I’m like, “No, I’m, I’m sticking with Veracode, see how this plays out, but I will keep that door open,” Like, you know, later on

[00:35:07] Marc Gonyea: Of course.

[00:35:09] Max Hufft: But it, it didn’t work out. And over the course of, like, 2018, 2019, I got a really good experience just traveling all over the place, I didn’t get to travel before, so I was traveling a lot, meeting with customers, um, being for an East Coast company, having a sales engineer out west, I got to go all over, I’ve been to places, I’ve been to, like Alaska, I’ve been to Washington, been to Missouri, more boring states, I got to go to New Mexico.

[00:35:32] Marc Gonyea: Indiana? 

[00:35:33] Max Hufft: So, it’s, it was, it was great, just everyone, of course, from Massachusetts, too, from someone who’s in the West Coast doesn’t really get to go to New England that much.

[00:35:40] So, it was really cool just being able to have that experience. There’s some weeks where, like, especially during our businesses in the fall, I was only home during the weekends, so it’s probably why I put so much weight during that time, you know, you get to eat out all the time, it’s so great, you eat all the restaurant food, but.

[00:35:52] Marc Gonyea: That’s right.

[00:35:53] Max Hufft: Yeah, anyway, so it was, it was just a great experience. And since then, my career’s grown a lot, after two years there, I got moved into the field and doing our estate and local government accounts

[00:36:03] Marc Gonyea: Oh, wow. 

[00:36:03] Max Hufft: ’cause that’s where I think Veracode’s technology, it’s somewhat the best, is like, they’re, they’ve had, like, Veracode has been around for 16-plus years. So, they’re, a lot of the technology that’s behind that, that Veracode is, like, vested years in. And so, Veracode’s just right out of gate, is a lot of sustainable governments, like older technology shops that were Swiss cheese, just between us and the listeners here. But there, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of work that needs to be done.

[00:36:30] So, it, it was scraping up to work on these accounts, like close to major accounts. And then, that all dried up during the pandemic. So, during that time I made the move to contrast, which I had a couple people working at, former memoryBlue alum, Jeff Liccion was there. 

[00:36:44] Marc Gonyea: Jeff. 

[00:36:45] Max Hufft: Didn’t get to work with him at all, I think we said, like, one word to each other, but it was good seeing somebody else there to, like, you know, suss it out. I had one good year there, and I got to the club, and I got, I got into seller’s, it’s nice, it’s, it’s a good pay. 

[00:36:59] Chris Corcoran: You, you’re solutions engineer there, too. 

[00:37:01] Max Hufft: Yes, and I gotta handle the top accounts. So, I was doing demos for companies like Apple, Microsoft and all that. A lot of times our co-founder would be on the call, too

[00:37:09] Chris Corcoran: Really? 

[00:37:09] Max Hufft: No pressure, these would be calls where, like, there would be, like, two prep calls, the call, and then, like, two after calls discussing about what just happened on that one call. It was so great just having that exposure, just stepping up the big wins at the top, like Fortune 10, Fortune 50 accounts on the West Coast, and even getting to close one of ’em and few others. 

[00:37:29] So, it was, yeah, we, we had a really nice close with PayPal for, like, over three mil, and it, it was, like, my first, like, serious payday, and all, for listeners, you can message me afterwards if you wanna talk about it, yeah, was like, even for sales engineer it was nice, like, it was like, go, go make a down payment on a home if want kind of nice, you know?

[00:37:48] Marc Gonyea: Wow. 

[00:37:48] Max Hufft: Yeah, it was good money, and I’m chasing a couple whales right up, that now being back at Veracode, I’ll tell about that experience moving back and forth between the jobs here in a minute,

[00:37:57] but it’s been great handling, like, these giant accounts and doing the, I don’t know, the whole process throughout it. 

[00:38:05] Marc Gonyea: So, as a, as a sales engineer, I know different companies have different setups. Sometimes you’re paired with one or two AEs, other times it’s, you’re kind of a, a stable. Have you worked in both scenarios, or have, 

[00:38:20] Max Hufft: So, when I first. 

[00:38:21] Marc Gonyea: and what your preference, right?

[00:38:22] Max Hufft: Oh, the former, for sure. 

[00:38:24] Marc Gonyea: When you went to, with one or two other people? 

[00:38:25] Max Hufft: Yeah, absolutely. When you got a good job like that going, especially, like, when you know other, like, prioritizing your accounts and just start sending you a little. I had this one, uh, I, I had this one AE, one AE I was working with, and this, this, this was, like, when I, when I started taking up state, local government for Veracode, and this was, like, when I got to see what excellence looks like.

[00:38:46] I got to see, like, someone who’s in the prime, their career, who really knows their craft, they taught me so much about how the state works, especially the state of California, and like, how to do business with them, and how one does business with, like, these different accounts and how to evangelize them and how to work them.

[00:38:58] And, and like, it was, it was just, like, mind-boggling me to, like, see someone who was, like, so good on it, and we were able to just go, like, an account, account, account, we just were able to close so many within, like, a year that you normally don’t get to do with state-level government, ’cause like, those are long-deal cycles.

[00:39:13] So, he would send me, like, little bottles of tequila because he knew I was a tequila guy, so I could just get, like, a bottle of Reposado every now and then, ah, so nice. But also the pay was nice, too, you know, we’d get to work with somebody that good. That’s also another aspect, too, of like, being a sales engineer is you get to see, like, people, like, really good sales reps, and then like, you know, sales reps that 

[00:39:34] Max Hufft: sometimes you’re the one helping them, and that was part of the reason why I left Contrast ’cause I was working with, like, two really good reps. One of ’em was the one that, like, got me to come over there, it was so, someone I knew from SourceClear, and we did, we did great, we were able to close some great accounts, and then everyone left me, and then I was, I, I realized I was, I was doing all of the selling,

[00:39:56] and helping all my, my AEs, and so, I don’t like to be the, the smartest person in the room ever. I, I still think I have a lot to grow, and there’s a lot of things I just don’t know, I’m still very young in my career, I like to think, and so I don’t like, I try to always make it sure, like, the reps I was being with are more senior. And like, that was not the case,

[00:40:17] Marc Gonyea: I see. 

[00:40:17] Max Hufft: um, anymore, and, which is a bummer ’cause I was working on what I like to call golden year that year, uh, at Contrast, which is a year where you plan, one, you gotta plan the company, right, where, you gotta make sure that you’re gonna be able to, like, blow your quota.

[00:40:30] This is, this is, like, mask accelerator’s hitting, I’m, I’m still chasing this where, like, you’ve gotta plan, so like, we’re planning all these different deals that are gonna knock out your, equip the quota within the first quarter, and then, like, throughout that year, everything’s just hitting your accelerators.

[00:40:44] And so, you can sit, like, 3, 4, 500K as an SE. So, I was really close to that, and like, everybody left, and then they changed our idea, our process so that we were paid on more like of a stable model, as you were saying. And I was like, man, I just had the wind, took it outta my sales on it. And so, I, it was around that same time my former boss, Eric, was like, 

[00:41:03] hey, ’cause I was trying to get him to come over at Contrast, and he was like, “How about I play an Uno Reverse card on you?” His exact words. 

[00:41:11] Marc Gonyea: Uno Reverse card?

[00:41:12] Max Hufft: Yeah, and like, “We fixed a lot of things you said in your interview, interview, like exit interview, and we’ve, we have this whole new public sector team.” I was like, “All right, keep going.” 

[00:41:23] Marc Gonyea: And it, this is two years later?

[00:41:26] Max Hufft: Yeah, exactly. And so. 

[00:41:27] Marc Gonyea: Right?

[00:41:27] Max Hufft: Yeah, we’re getting into, like, what happened last summer. And so, I would, I was like, “Okay, well, let me interview the reps.” Because at that point, I was just kind of crispy on my reps, so I was like, let me, let me interview.

[00:41:35] Marc Gonyea: Crispy on my reps.

[00:41:37] Chris Corcoran: I love that you.

[00:41:37] Max Hufft: That’s a sales lingo for you there, right?

[00:41:40] Chris Corcoran: I love how you’re interviewing the reps. 

[00:41:41] Max Hufft: Yeah, I got. 

[00:41:42] Marc Gonyea: Smart. 

[00:41:42] Max Hufft: I got to dictate the interview process, how cool was that? 

[00:41:44] Marc Gonyea: That’s ’cause you’re good at your job, right? 

[00:41:47] Max Hufft: Right. They.

[00:41:48] Marc Gonyea: You’re a valued, scarce, scarce resource. 

[00:41:51] Max Hufft: Yeah. So, they, they, I got to do that and interviewed the reps, that was it, that was an interview process. And I was like, okay, these are a lot better than what I’m working with right now. All right, “Now, let’s talk about compensation, like, get me out of, like, buy me outta my stock.” So, they also gave me a nice signing bonus, too. 

[00:42:04] Marc Gonyea: Oh, wow. 

[00:42:04] Max Hufft: Yeah. And so, I took a month off ’cause I had like, I had a good signing bonus on it, and I already have, like, a good amount of travel, so I got to go to, like, three different festivals during that time last summer, it was one of the best summers ever. And then I got to come back, and now we’re working, like, these two massive deals and already made more than I would’ve if I stayed at Contrast. 

[00:42:21] Marc Gonyea: Really?

[00:42:21] Max Hufft: Yeah, like, at the time though, like, man, I was like, is this the right choice, like, because it also, it’s like a little scary leaving, like, having that look on a resume, you know, like, go leaving one company, come, going back to that same company and then spending just like a couple years here, a year and some change here,

[00:42:37] like, like, future employer’s gonna be like, “How long are you gonna stay here?” You know, so it, it was looking like a risky choice right now, but now, like, looking back on it, especially seeing, like, what we’re bringing in right now, and what I’m chasing after right now, like it’s, it was definitely paid off.

[00:42:49] Marc Gonyea: Well, I mean.

[00:42:49] Chris Corcoran: So, when, when you were interviewing the AEs, what, what do you look for in a good sales rep? 

[00:42:54] Max Hufft: Right. So, for me, it’s how, how well they know their territory, um, if it’s somebody who’s like, never worked this patch before, like, and they, they’re really building the ground up, they don’t have any type of, like, I, I don’t wanna call it a Rolodex, but like, some type of like, idea of the companies and how to talk to them, and like, and how, how, how different companies like to be approached.

[00:43:14] For the, when we’re talking public sector, that’s even more important, and just how much they know, like, the states they’re working with, the departments and how to get into them, how does one do business with them. That’s a lot more important because, like, you can be, you can be just bartender for days,

[00:43:29] Max Hufft: and there’ll be, like, no business. So, that, then, then that brings into some more obvious questions, like, what’s your pipeline? What’s your pipeline been like? What’s, what it was like in different companies? Um, like what do you like? And then, of course, what do you look for an SE? 

[00:43:41] And like, what do they envision the working relationship being like. If it’s one of those AEs that are like, just try to find somebody and then bring it to the SE, it’s like, I’m doing all this selling, there’s, like, no pitching, like, that’s another big part of it, too, it’s like, now here’s Max, I, I, I hate it when, like, AEs do that, I’m like, “Do they even know who we are?

[00:44:01] Do they even know what we’re talking about here?” I’m supposed to talk to them about like, hitting into the weeds and the technicalities, and like, I’ll definitely do a lot of, like, what it, I’ve got to learn was force management, um, if you guys were familiar with the force management system. 

[00:44:13] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s used by all, for the listeners who don’t know, it’s this training program, I wanna say they’re based Avenue, New England something, Charlotte. 

[00:44:20] Max Hufft: Oh, they’re in Charlotte, um, and they work with almost every big tech shop, they’re, they’re, it’s, it’s a big industry name that essentially talks about owning the whole conversation, the message, and how to get and essentially sell based on value.

[00:44:34] Um, so this, this is, like, big league stuff, this is stuff where, like, even like, some of the biggest things like Optiv for their entire North American skills team uses it, it’s a big, like, recognized training program. So, I got, I got that experience at Veracode, but like, I find there’s times where, like, if I get on with a rep and I’m doing all that, like, I’m doing all the force management,

[00:44:51] like, and like, I’m trying to figure out, like, their consequences, and like, what their desired outcomes are, and like, a whole mantra on it. But, so if I’m doing all that, like, that’s not good, like, if they envision that, so I wanna envision their process, like, if I, if I don’t get that, then it’s, like, it’s mostly me running, I’m like, well, then just pay me to be the AE, you know. 

[00:45:11] Chris Corcoran: No, no, no, no, no, not just pay you to be the AE, pay you both, AE and the SE, right? I mean, if I’m gonna do the AEs’ job and I’m gonna do the SE job, pay me both. 

[00:45:21] Max Hufft: Yeah, pay me, yeah, give both paychecks, I’m, I’m down for that. 

[00:45:25] Chris Corcoran: But I think it is best when you find, like, a great salesperson, ’cause that person’s gonna do a phenomenal job.

[00:45:31] Max Hufft: Oh, absolutely.

[00:45:31] Chris Corcoran: You’re gonna do a phenomenal job for the team, you guys need to sell the most in that studio. 

[00:45:34] Max Hufft: Yeah, and like, you get a good jive to it, too, like, I found when I have a really good relationship with an AE, like, them and I are like going back and forth in a demo, like, it’s like, like how you see newscasters, like, we’ll be, like, trading off in different types of a story, like, it’s the same thing, we’re just, like, tossing the ball back and forth in a demo and being able to, like, essentially like, make it seem, like, it’s more of a conversation, 

[00:45:56] which is so important when the case where, like, you’re given a presentation, and they’re not saying anything, everybody’s off camera eating lunch, and like, no, you’ve lost them entirely, like, it’s great being able to, like, keep it, so it’s not one speaker, and like, the relationship’s beautiful, like, like, and it comes off, and the prospects know it and the sales teams recognize it, too, like, sales teams notice when, like, an AE and an SDR are doing really well together, and they can see that, that means.

[00:46:21] Marc Gonyea: Batman and Robin.

[00:46:22] Max Hufft: Absolutely, yeah. You’ll see them go company to company together. 

[00:46:25] Marc Gonyea: Totally, yeah, totally, totally, yeah, yeah, I, I know some reps who are like, I’m, I’m, this is my SE, like, we’re a partner, partner

[00:46:33] Max Hufft: Absolutely, yeah.

[00:46:34] Marc Gonyea: duo. 

[00:46:34] Max Hufft: You know, I almost, uh, followed my, one of my AEs, like, that I already followed into Contrast, I almost followed ’em again to another company, might still do that again in the future, we’ll see, but I’ll, I’ll save that for off the podcast. 

[00:46:46] Chris Corcoran: That’s great.

[00:46:48] Marc Gonyea: So, lemme ask you a question.

[00:46:49] Max Hufft: Sure. 

[00:46:49] Marc Gonyea: You’ve obviously put a lot of thought and energy into companies and moves, I think a lot of that is ’cause you, you work in the epicenter of tech?

[00:46:57] Max Hufft: Right. I, I think also, like, part of it is something, as this guy picked up in memoryBlue, we’ve, when looking at clients is, um, this is something, so this is actually a relevant conversation to some people I’m having right now ’cause I’m, I’m helping three different people get jobs right now. 

[00:47:10] If you’ve, unless you’ve lived under the rock, you know, that, you have probably noticed, like, every company is essentially shutting off all the people they hired way too fast over the last year, last two, last two years or so. So, there’s three different people I’m trying to get to hire with, and the first thing I, I like to tell people when looking for a company, and these are, like, things I like, this is actually something I learned to, at memoryBlue, like getting new clients is first and foremost, does the tech make sense? Like, just gut feel, you don’t have to be, like, a sales engineer, you don’t have to be an engineering student, you could be anybody, like, just gut feel, does this sound like a good product? Like, we buy, businesses or people buy this shit, you know, pardon my French, but, but like, they, that’s the first and foremost.

[00:47:54] And then, the second is, like, is it, like, the industry want, is it an industry relevant in? So, like, if you don’t want to go work for marketing software or something else, maybe not the best. But yeah, or if you wanna go, and like, like, where IT software’s kind boring. Um, but like I, I’d love to steering people towards security if they’re passionate about security, and like, securing things, good place to be, it’s great, good place for money, too, but 

[00:48:17] Marc Gonyea: Well, but security’s hard, though. 

[00:48:18] Max Hufft: Yeah, it isn’t. 

[00:48:19] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, so everybody’s like. 

[00:48:20] Max Hufft: No, it’s not, well, that’s my opinion, though. 

[00:48:22] Marc Gonyea: Let’s get into that because I hear, you, we, you know, it’s, it’s a very self-reflecting job, soul-searching SDR job, and people say, “I had a bad client, I’m in cyber.” 

[00:48:33] Max Hufft: What’s wrong with cyber, dude? 

[00:48:35] Marc Gonyea: Nobody picks up the phone, it’s so hard, they’ll get back to you. 

[00:48:37] Max Hufft: You just gotta find a better way to get a hold of them. 

[00:48:39] Marc Gonyea: You’re skeptical.

[00:48:40] Max Hufft: It’s such a good industry to be in, though. 

[00:48:42] Marc Gonyea: They don’t trust, you’re so skeptical. 

[00:48:43] Max Hufft: Yeah, they should, yeah they damn well should be though, like, you want your, you want your cyber professionals to be skeptical about everything, those are the good ones, like, you want these people who go, like, “Why are you calling me? Who is this?” Because like, you guys also gotta think about it from like a, like, from an outside attacker’s perspective of, like, what a BDR comes in can also sometimes come in off as, like, an intruder

[00:49:06] because there’s, like, there’s, like a lot of different breaches we’re seeing happen nowadays are social engineering. So, it’s things that are where you’re calling someone or emailing and trying to get advantage of their, like, either credentials or if you’re, like, somehow get approved to, like, spam them with two factors,

[00:49:21] like, it’s a lot of things where the security controls work great, but someone got taken advantage of. And so, that’s probably oftentimes, like, you know, put yourself in their shoes, see why, like, imagine why they’re, like, so scared about, like, talking to people, or like, seeing why there’s some stranger talking to me,

[00:49:38] they can oftentimes think it’s a bad attitude. So, it’s, put yourself in their shoes and try to find a friendly way to come at them, that’s the advice I would give anybody that’s concerned about that, or like, seeing why the industry might be like that. 

[00:49:51] Marc Gonyea: So, you give us your rules, or you’re cutting, looking at opportunity. How important is the who the manager is, ’cause we haven’t talked about that as much, 

[00:49:58] Max Hufft: Right. 

[00:49:58] Marc Gonyea: we talked about the AEs and the tech.

[00:50:00] Max Hufft: Oh, man, I didn’t even put it in there. I didn’t put in the list yet ’cause we’re not

[00:50:04] Marc Gonyea: Is it, is it more important than the, the tech, or is it 

[00:50:06] Max Hufft: No, no, it’s definitely important though, like it’s, you gotta like the boss, that’s for sure. Definitely get to know them, see, see their experience, like, it’s, is it somebody you can grow with? Is it someone who’s, like, a team lead who just got promoted, and like, they’re looking, like, are they really excited looking to grow people, or they’re just kind of, like, stuck with it all, and they don’t wanna do, like, you know, like, it’s, it’s your interview, too, at the end of the day.

[00:50:29] Chris Corcoran: Completely. 

[00:50:30] Max Hufft: That’s, that’s something that I think, as we’ve discovered over the course of this podcast, it’s like, I’ve definitely totally changed how I deal with, like, interviews, like, for me it’s like, I’m sussing the company, I’m sussing the people out, do that, you know, like, make it your own interview process, like, really take it, ask if you, there’s certain people you 

[00:50:48] wanted to see, like, oftentimes they’ll say, like, “Okay, you’re gonna meet with these people and these, like, and these people,” it’s like, “Okay, well, do you mind if I also ask,” and like, that goes to leaps and bounds, like, if you’re, if, if it’s, it makes it, not only does, does it seem like you’re hard to get, but it’s also showing that you’re putting thought in interview, like, in, like, effort into the interview process, too.

[00:51:04] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, I challenge, like, we’ve got people, you know, they’re you five years ago, four years ago when you left the company, they’re SDRs, and if they’re sharp and good, they have some leverage, it’s not the same as someone who’s been doing,

[00:51:16] Max Hufft: Oh, sure, no

[00:51:18] Marc Gonyea: but get a little power, ask some questions. 

[00:51:21] Max Hufft: Yeah, make it your own dude.

[00:51:22] Marc Gonyea: Make it your own. 

[00:51:23] How do you stay sharp on the technology? 

[00:51:25] Max Hufft: So, that, that’s a good question. Honestly, I would just say, like, be naturally curious and just kind of dorky about it, like, right, for example, today we were talking about ChatGPT, and like, for me, I was like, when I first, like, we were, we had a conversation about it with, like an, our meeting and at first I was like, “I don’t see how this is relevant,

[00:51:43] like, how, how could this possibly be like, like geared towards us? This is just some little chatbot thing.” Now, we ended up discussing about it, and people are, like, talking about like, well, why do people start using this to automate different, like, open-source packages that people would just go and take 

[00:51:57] them, but the open-source packages are deliberate people under rule. So, it’s like a deliberate backdoor, if you will, put this off, too. It’s so that, that like, totally opened my mind. So, like, staying naturally open and curious to things, surround yourself with people who are smarter than you, and like, are more dorky about the technology,

[00:52:14] that I think is huge, that’s, uh, I think is awesome also, just anytime anything new comes out, like I, as an SE the most, like, the, we gotta be up on anything that’s new what’s going on with the company, even if we think it’s a dumb product when it comes out, like, for example, like our dynamic analysis, like, at Veracode, I’m not giving away any companies here, everyone knows this, this is a company, this is an industry not, noted thing, kinda like the Amazon Prime video of dynamic analysis,

[00:52:40] like, it was, it was, no Netflix, it was on HBO, but it’s grown to be, like, this really good product, and I, I, when I came back to it, like, after being at Contrast, I was like, this has so many bells and whistles now, eye scan is awesome, other stuff’s fricking cool, man. Um, like, now I’m excited about it. So, it’s like, also giving a li, always giving a little hope and a benefit of the doubt.

[00:53:01] Like, our, we recently put out a container scanning and it’s, it, it, it checks the box, right? And I’ll put that there, like, I have customers listening, it’s true, I’ll get the job done, but it’s, it doesn’t have a lot of the bells and whistles you’d expect from more bigger product from, like, 

[00:53:14] say, and I hate to give, like, my competition air time, but I’ll give ’em a little, little time on this one so it, it doesn’t do as well as like a, a Prisma Cloud, we’ll do it just yet, but we’re definitely trying to, like, get there. And so, it’s sun, the looking at, like, always giving hope about new technology we’re building ’cause it can end up being that really nice shiny product. 

[00:53:32] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, you gotta learn, but also, given the competition of some props makes you more credible as a seller or as a sales systems architect.

[00:53:38] Max Hufft: Yeah, actually. 

[00:53:39] Marc Gonyea: Like, you’re always punking the competition, I gotta get anywhere.

[00:53:41] Max Hufft: No, it’s, vendor bashing is absolutely disgusting, like, it just, it just looks bad, it looks slimy, it comes all sides ’cause it is, like, I, I hate it when, like, marketing teams, other people try to do that, I, I think it just, it comes out so immature.

[00:53:56] Yeah, I’ll leave it at that, but I think it’s also important, like, you know, once you get a little bit on your belt, like I, I find, like, it’s some of the more convincing times I would have for the customers when I’m being just flat out with them, like, I’ve worked with three application security companies now, and I can tell you, like, this is what I’ve seen on the market,

[00:54:16] Max Hufft: this is what you need, you don’t need all this other stuff, this is, like, eventually the tools you’re gonna need, like, and this is usually a conversation where I don’t have the Salesforce online and this, this is a known, like, thing to do where, like, we’re, if we’re in, like, either a proof of concept of the customer or something, it’s not a tactic, it’s just a normal part of the sales process where sometimes it’s just the SU with the customer, just being candid and 100 with them.

[00:54:38] And like, that’s when, like, and then the salesperson come in and be like, try to push all these other different licenses and get on the pricing and stuff, but, it’s nice when the SE is like, “Okay, this is what you, this is what you’re gonna take value with, this is what’s gonna get you to what you actually need to get done,

[00:54:50] this is how you’re gonna get to your desired out-state with a little of that force management.” Right, you now, but it’s still candid, but like, this is a little force management. And, and at that point, like, they, they kind of, they had that, like, come-to-Jesus moment and realize how it all works, and like, you can also tell ’em like, you don’t need these other products. But like, that, that, that little candid moment,

[00:55:11] like, that’s usually where, like, it, if you get to that pride in the sales process, the SE’s in there, and like, they get that in there, like, deal’s almost done, like, it, it’s, it’s really getting somewhere at that point. 

[00:55:21] Chris Corcoran: Propeller head to propeller head?

[00:55:23] Max Hufft: Yeah. What does that mean? 

[00:55:25] Chris Corcoran: Like, you know, there’s the dorks with those propeller heads.

[00:55:27] Max Hufft: Oh, I got it, sorry, that was, I know the, the hat, is that, like a, you’ll ask me on there.

[00:55:34] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. 

[00:55:34] Max Hufft: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:55:35] Marc Gonyea: I think it’s, it’s such a good technique ’cause people are always nervous that sells, people are, they’re getting done wrong in the process 

[00:55:42] Max Hufft: Oh, absolutely. 

[00:55:43] Marc Gonyea: buy more. 

[00:55:44] Max Hufft: Oh, yeah, I mean, that’s a natural, like, if any, any of us three for someone’s selling us, we’re just instantly thinking like, all right, where’s the gimmick, like, that’s a natural human thing. 

[00:55:52] Marc Gonyea: You’re selling your company’s money, I mean, be a statement. 

[00:55:55] Max Hufft: Oh, absolutely. 

[00:55:56] Marc Gonyea: Much the wrong way. 

[00:55:58] Max Hufft: But also, it could also be line if you don’t…

[00:56:00] Marc Gonyea: If you don’t.

[00:56:01] Chris Corcoran: You don’t wanna, you don’t wanna end up on the front page of the Wall Street Journal. 

[00:56:03] Max Hufft: Exactly, yeah. That’s a classic sales headline there for, we’ll keep you off the front page of the, the New York Times.

[00:56:12] Marc Gonyea: New York is subject line, and you know it. 

[00:56:14] Max Hufft: Yeah, pretty much, yeah. 

[00:56:17] Marc Gonyea: Wow. All right. So, where do you see yourself going with this? Like, do you, like, you really like, it sounds like you love working big deals. 

[00:56:23] Max Hufft: Yeah, I’m enjoying it right now, I’m enjoying my whales. Yeah, it’s a, it’s important, well, it’s important, one, to not ride the rollercoaster, that’s some advice I could anybody get.

[00:56:32] Marc Gonyea: Tell them. 

[00:56:33] Max Hufft: So, right in the rollercoaster is a, it is a piece of advice I got from one of the sales reps I worked with from SourceClear, it says potentially when you’re right, when you’re in a, like, sales process, there is going to be highs and lows, and it’s important to, like, know with every high, like, there’s gonna be a swap, like, you’re gonna have a shit two quarters in a row, and you’re gonna be like, “This is not looking good,” you’re sweating. 

[00:56:55] And then, like, the busy season will roll around and then, like, you’re on the high again, like, that’s oftentimes where I found, like, an application security first half year, not that good. Um, and then, but like, like around, like, the autumn, and like, especially like the, like the winter and also maybe the first quarter, too, a little bit, like, you get that hangover, it’s late, it’s a windfall, but like, the first half of the year looks horrible, and you can feel it and the, like, revenue fixes all things, but when it’s not there, like, like the little things come out, like, all this different things that gives you anxiety.

[00:57:27] And so, it’s important to, like, know, like you’re, there’s gonna be highs and lows and not ride the rollercoaster, not freak out, keep doing your job and keep figuring out how to, like, going after, like, the, the next deals and the next big deals, and that’s how you, it’s gonna get you to your number. 

[00:57:41] Marc Gonyea: Love it, but where are you gonna go? Like, where are you gonna.

[00:57:43] Max Hufft: Great question, so.

[00:57:44] Marc Gonyea: ‘Cause you like a kid chasing the deals, yeah, I mean, you’re, you’re like, you start early, you’re early in your career. 

[00:57:50] Max Hufft: Yeah. So, I, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I’ll, I’ll fall back on something that said many times throughout this podcast, I don’t know, I don’t know where I wanna go yet.

[00:57:58] Marc Gonyea: You have to know. 

[00:57:59] Max Hufft: Yeah. So, I, I, there is, there is something though, I do want to, it’s something that I’ll, all, something I mentioned earlier is I do want to have one of those, like, just absolute blowout years. So, I, I’m, I’m really, I really want to put in some time here, but I, I think we got a really good team that can help absolutely do that. And so, I’m trying to line up some.

[00:58:21] Marc Gonyea: It’s okay, okay. 

[00:58:23] Chris Corcoran: So, a propeller head? The definition is an, an enthusiast of technology and especially of computers. 

[00:58:29] Max Hufft: Okay. 

[00:58:29] Chris Corcoran: Propeller heads. 

[00:58:30] Marc Gonyea: Oh, let’s, let’s do this whole 

[00:58:33] Max Hufft: Is your urban dictionary that good? 

[00:58:35] Chris Corcoran: I just Googled it. 

[00:58:36] Marc Gonyea: I think we’ll have in the military. 

[00:58:37] Max Hufft: Propeller head. Yeah, I can see that.

[00:58:39] Marc Gonyea: We’re, like, military East Coast guys.

[00:58:42] Max Hufft: Okay. 

[00:58:43] Marc Gonyea: Maybe that’s how my dad would always say that. 

[00:58:44] Max Hufft: Propeller heads.

[00:58:46] Marc Gonyea: Um. 

[00:58:46] Max Hufft: Are we back on? 

[00:58:47] Marc Gonyea: We’re back on. Let’s go with, like, the question, I’ll start with the question of where, where you think you want go, and you can say it, you don’t have to go into it, then I got another question for you. 

[00:58:55] Max Hufft: Yeah. So.

[00:58:56] Chris Corcoran: Here we go, let’s go, 3, 2, 1, and then go. 

[00:58:58] Marc Gonyea: All right.

[00:58:59] Chris Corcoran: 3, 2, 1.

[00:58:59] Marc Gonyea: 3, 2, 1. 

[00:59:01] Max Hufft: Let’s go. 

[00:59:02] Marc Gonyea: Ha, I like it. Max, I think was jumping out at me as you like the big, you like deals. 

[00:59:10] Max Hufft: Yeah, I love.

[00:59:10] Marc Gonyea: Everybody loves big deals, but you like the deal. So, I’m curious as to where, although you’re so early in your career, still you are, where do you, where do you wanna go with this?

[00:59:19] Max Hufft: Right. So, I, I definitely wanna stay in this role for at least another. It’s, like I, I just moved into the more senior roles, so I’m handling most of our larger accounts now, I’m enjoying it, I’m loving it. So, I’m not, I haven’t thought about where I wanna go after that, I kind of, I love the, the lifestyle and the individual contributor.

[00:59:36] At first, like I, after college, I, I thought I wanted to, like, get more into leadership again, like, ’cause I was doing that in college, but like, I love the freedom I have right now, like, I love, like, the low stress, like, I don’t have to worry about people, like, hitting me up at the end of the day and nag me about stuff, or like, always, like, thinking about who I’m trying to hire and who, like, I need to improve,

[00:59:55] Max Hufft: like, I, I would love not having to think about that right now. So, I’m, maybe as I get older, I, like, maybe revisit that again, but right now I enjoy the lifestyle, being able to have a work, like, working these type of deals, I enjoy being in the public sector we’re at, I’m learning a lot from the, the people,

[01:00:13] we have our, I really like our new VP of public sector and our VP of government affairs. Our public sector comes from, uh, it comes from Adobe. And our government affairs lady, she comes from, being a former state CIO. 

[01:00:26] Marc Gonyea: Oh, wow. 

[01:00:26] Max Hufft: And so, I’m like

[01:00:27] Marc Gonyea: A lot of credibility. 

[01:00:27] Max Hufft: Yeah. So, we have someone who’s great at handling our lobbyists, and I get to lobbyists now, I get to see what’s so great about reusing them and the value with those people. And then, also just seeing what Exxon says, like being able to build out, like, a really high-functioning, like, public sector machine that just, like, prints money. 

[01:00:43] Yeah, um, so I’m, I, I don’t, I, I don’t wanna leave, like I, I really like where I’m at right now, I really love the team, I’m really glad I moved back. So, I don’t, I don’t wanna think about future, don’t make me, Marc.

[01:00:54] Marc Gonyea: But you don’t have to, I’m just curious. You’re engaging about it when you’re, uh, riding around in the zip car. What about this, so you’ve seen, you like the sales part it sounds like, I mean, you’re talking force management and you getting these things, have you considered being a, a classic salesperson, have you liked money? It sounds like…

[01:01:16] Max Hufft: I played with the idea. 

[01:01:17] Chris Corcoran: So, yeah, this is another question, is like, why not be the sales rep? So. 

[01:01:21] Marc Gonyea: Why not be, that, that’s my question, why not be a sales rep?

[01:01:23] Max Hufft: I, I love the amount of risk and reward I have right now, it’s not, like.

[01:01:27] Marc Gonyea: Very self-aware, it’s good, it’s good. 

[01:01:30] Max Hufft: Yeah, ’cause I, I, I, like, I, I always, I know it’s gonna be, like, just talk about riding the rollercoaster. The, the sales rep role has, like, it’s, it’s that, I like what’s asked of me, I don’t like it’s, that I’m constantly having to worry about a bag and a number over my head as much as a sales rep would. So, I, I love the perfect, I think it’s a really good balance and a really good balance for me. 

[01:01:51] Marc Gonyea: Yeah. 

[01:01:52] Chris Corcoran: He’s run all the numbers, man. 

[01:01:52] Max Hufft: I, I’ve thought about it, I, I’ve played with the idea of, like, if I were to take over a California spot right now, and I don’t know, I would, I would have to have, like, I, if it, if this situation arise where I saw, like, a really good manager, like, a really good director to help me grow. And also I’d, like, have to step down, like, the size of council. 

[01:02:11] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, probably.

[01:02:12] Max Hufft: Maybe not always, like, there could be a good situation arise. So, it’s, there’s, like, a lot of shit I don’t know. So, like, to do that kind of role, excuse my French, um, but it, it, it’s, it’s, it’s crossed my mind a couple times, but I, I would have to see, like, a really good opportunity where I believe I could be, like, like real, like really given the support, and like, overall direction of where I, I wanna go.

[01:02:34] Marc Gonyea: You considered it. 

[01:02:34] Max Hufft: But like, but also I, I really enjoy where I’m at, so I like, I don’t think about it that much, maybe it crosses my mind like once a year or so.

[01:02:41] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, you may not need to, I mean, it sounds like you love what you’re doing, you’re really good at it. 

[01:02:45] Max Hufft: Thank you. Yeah, I, it’s the case.

[01:02:48] Marc Gonyea: So, knowing what you know now, you could go back to the night before you started at memoryBlue, what advice would you have for yourself?

[01:02:54] Max Hufft: Oh, man, enjoy the ride, honestly, like I, there was, I was so stressed out at memoryBlue for like, no reasons, like, there was, like, a lot of things like I, I would just be so worried about if numbers weren’t right or if there was, like, I, I would just scrutinize every type of, like, client call and just get super worried about something didn’t need to.

[01:03:14] And if I, if I knew to look back on it, it’d just say like, you know, enjoy it, learn everything, if, uh, mostly just, like, slow down and enjoy the months there ’cause like, month of memoryBlue could be like a quarter something.

[01:03:26] Marc Gonyea: That’s okay. 

[01:03:27] Max Hufft: It’s ’cause you learn so much, like, um. 

[01:03:30] Marc Gonyea: Right, a firework 

[01:03:31] Chris Corcoran: Where, where, where the months feel like quarters.

[01:03:33] Max Hufft: Yeah, absolutely, months like, what’s this about, this month took this long. 

[01:03:38] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, it’s only February. Oh, man, that’s hilarious. 

[01:03:44] Marc Gonyea: Yeah, man, thank you for coming on, I mean, we, you’re like one of the memoryBlue California OGs because you were one of the first people to set the bar by, by running the tour, right?

[01:03:54] Chris Corcoran: Yeah, oh, yeah, in the notes I saw. So, you were one of the first to take a 3K? 

[01:03:58] Max Hufft: Yeah, I was, I think I, I was the first.

[01:04:00] Chris Corcoran: Yeah. So, you tell us, where’d you go? 

[01:04:01] Max Hufft: So, I, I went to EDC, Las Vegas for it, and I, that was, like, second time going, and at the time, that was a huge vacation for me. 

[01:04:09] Marc Gonyea: You went where? 

[01:04:10] Max Hufft: EDC, Las Vegas, that’s a, it’s a, yeah, it’s a giant music festival that happens at night in Las Vegas called Electric Daisy Carnival. It’s huge, but like, I’ve gone to go to such bigger things now, but at the time it was 

[01:04:21] Marc Gonyea: You were coming outta school, someone’s giving you three grand to

[01:04:23] Max Hufft: Yeah, absolutely, it was great. Now, we’re doing such bigger and loftier things, it’s great, let’s see how much you can grow from going to that point. Now, I’m thinking about, this year, I was like, yeah, I can just go for on the easy if I wanted to, but like, we got such a, such something, such bigger plan the next month.

[01:04:38] But back to the story, sorry, I’m getting excited for my vacation. It was great, we got to stay at the Venetian for a good four or five days. 

[01:04:47] Marc Gonyea: Wow. 

[01:04:48] Max Hufft: So, it wasn’t just, we’re in and out and staying at some, like, shitty little hotel on the side, we gotta stay in a nice spot, the shuttle’s in and out, it was a really nice experience. And it all kind of worked out with, like, timing, and like, like we, I think we took, like, a good week for it off. So, we got time for recovery till, it was a good time.

[01:05:05] Marc Gonyea: It’s great, very good. 

[01:05:07] Chris Corcoran: Any other closing thoughts, Mr. Max? 

[01:05:09] Max Hufft: No, I, I, what I am excited though, is to see, like, the rest of this office, it’s grown so much. I, I think there’s so much opportunity here in the Silicon Valley, there’s so much, so many good clients, too, people can take off, I think this office is just getting started. Anybody’s thinking about it, definitely give memoryBlue a thought, definitely come in, see what it’s about, it’s really, helps you set, set yourself above and beyond for later parts in your career, it really gives you a leg off later on. 

[01:05:32] Chris Corcoran: That’s great, very good. Well, thanks for joining us today, Max. 

[01:05:35] Max Hufft: Yeah, thanks, Chris, thanks, Marc.

[01:05:36] Marc Gonyea: Great seeing you, man. 

[01:05:37] Max Hufft: Yeah, likewise. ​ 

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