Tech Sales is for Hustlers Podcast

Campus Series: Alex Milovic – Don’t Be Afraid of Opportunity

Guest-At-A-Glance

Name: Alex Milovic

What he does: Alex is an award-winning marketing educator and researcher. He currently works as an Assistant Professor of Practice at Marquette University, teaching courses in marketing and sales while developing an undergraduate sales program.

Company/Institution: Marquette University

Noteworthy: From Black & Decker and Goldman Sachs to Marquette University, Alex Milovic has a career we could all be envious of. It was a path full of obstacles and doubts, but, as our guest explains, “As long as you’re positive and trust and believe in yourself, you’ll see your way through this.” Alex loves to be on stage. He played the piano for a couple of years. That’s maybe one of the reasons he decided to pursue a career in academia. “I finished my Ph.D. in consumer behavior. But, from then on, I became a sales strategy professor. Marquette was looking for three people, two for traditional research and one to start a sales program. That’s pretty much my job. I started there in 2014, and we’ve been building the sales program ever since.”

Where to find Alex: LinkedIn

Key Insights

⚡ Sales is a challenging profession. If you are thinking about a career in sales, get ready for anything. Sales is a roller coaster you need to be trained for. It is an exciting profession, full of possibilities, but it can quickly put you in a state of despair. Therefore, as Alex explains, sales programs are crucial in preparing students for this complex role. ”We teach students how hard sales is, how challenging it can be. We prep them for that pit of despair moment. Without a sales program, a lot of students will take that first job in sales, and they’ll realize, ‘I don’t know anything. I’m scared.’ They’ll get their resume together, and they’ll leave. And now we as more experienced sales leaders and educators say, ‘No, no, stick with it. It is fine, totally normal. What you’re experiencing is what everybody experienced,’ and then work them through the process.”

⚡ Whatever your plan is, be willing to change it. Getting hired after graduation is one of the most exciting things a young person can experience. However, Alex shares his thoughts regarding this matter and says graduates should not look at their first jobs as something final. It is okay to be excited about the job, but don’t let that feeling put a shadow on your plans. “Write these plans in pencil. Have your one, three, and five-year plan that may not include the company, and that’s okay.” Alex also explains why it is important to fight against the impostor syndrome most of us face throughout our careers. “You’re going to wonder, ‘Why did they pick me? They chose you for a reason, and they chose you because you have inherent skills and a desire to be better.”

⚡ Don’t be afraid to fail. It is a known fact that students look up to their professors. For most of us, educators are surreal creatures who have figured everything up, and success is the only outcome they accept. But that’s not true. Professors who are dedicated to their calling will never hide their failures. In contrast, they will use those examples and teach students about everything that could happen on their professional path. These professors are the most admired ones; why? ”I think a lot of it has to do with my failures and promoting that. Being okay with that and telling them that ‘What you see now looks like a very well thought out plan that led me to be in front of you.’ Brutal honesty. I’ll share with them when times were tough,” says Alex.

Episode Highlights

Never Burn Bridges; You Never Know When You’re Going to Meet Them Again

”I went to college, started as a science major, switched to business marketing, and graduated. I was fortunate enough to get a job with Black & Decker when they were the Kings of the Hill. I did that for three and a half years. I was laid off. ‘What am I selling? Who am I selling to? What am I doing? What are my metrics?’ I completely failed on all of those.

I love my time at Black & Decker. I loved the opportunity. It can be something that I speak to companies about. A lot of the leadership team, currently on Milwaukee Tool, Black & Decker’s largest competitor, came from Black & Decker. I worked with them in the year 2000. We were all entry-level sales reps. Now, a number of them, I can point high on the hierarchy and say, ‘Worked with him, him, him, her, her, him,’ and we placed plenty of people there.”

How to Prepare Students for Their First Official Sales Call

”We spend a lot of time focusing on everything right up until that official sales call. A lot of time in research, understanding you, the competitors, the product line, the customer, as well as prospecting techniques to build the plan. We also talk about what’s the goal of that call. So the goal of the first call is a meeting. The goal of the second meeting is a meeting with somebody else and more information. We walk them through what the process will look like. And the more time you spend initially in prospecting and research and also developing a good, strong list of questions when you get into that first sales call, you can succeed.”

A Piece of Advice for Future Sales Professionals: You Have to Be Selfish

”Be friendly, but focus on you. If you’re not the most important person in your life, then find a new life. Ideally, you have a good manager who can train you, lead you, and help you get promoted. But how few and far between are those managers? Most managers are happy because you don’t start fire drills every five minutes. Also, identify what the next job is. What lane you started in the company is probably not the lane you’ll finish in. You’ll probably bounce around. There’s no such thing as a lateral move. You’re always going to learn new things and new skills, doing different jobs. So don’t be afraid of opportunity.”

Never Stop Hustling

”There are many chapters in your life, and that’s okay. I think that gives them the relief that as long as you’re positive and trust and believe in yourself, you’ll see your way through this.

But also, never stop hustling. If it’s your current opportunity, the next opportunity, say yes to more things, do more things. You never know when a chance meeting is going to end up in a future job or a future opportunity. So do those things. Get out of your comfort zone.” 

Transcript:

[00:00:09] Libby Galatis: Got it. Welcome back hustlers to our Tech Sales is for Hudson Hustlers Campus Series. Hold on, I’m gonna stop you do that again. Kristen normally does introductions. Okay. Alright. Welcome back hustlers to another episode of our Tech Sales is for Hustlers, Campus Series. My name is Libby Galatis, 

[00:00:32] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:00:32] and I am Kristen Wisdorf. 

[00:00:35] Libby Galatis: [00:00:35] And today we have Alex Milovic  from Marquette University to talk about his sales career and experience in the industry.

[00:00:42] Welcome Alex. 

[00:00:44] Alex Milovic: [00:00:44] Happy to be here. Thank you for having me. 

[00:00:47] Libby Galatis: [00:00:47] We are thrilled to be able to pick your brain today. I’m sure you have a wealth of knowledge to share with our listeners, but we are going to start things off the way that we typically do this podcast. We’d love to know your highlight reel. If you could just share your 60 second snapshot of who you are and we’ll go from there. 

[00:01:04] Alex Milovic: [00:01:04] Absolutely. So I guess I would probably be described as career student. Went to college, started out as a science major, switched to business marketing, graduated, was fortunate enough to get a job with Black & Decker, de Walt, right when they were the kings of the hill. So I did that for three and a half years and was laid off actually, it was when we talk about role clarity and role ambiguity, in terms of “What am I selling?”

[00:01:22] Who am I selling to? What am I doing? What are my metrics?” I completely failed on all of those. And so that was a little scary. Went back to school, got a second degree from a school called UNC Charlotte in information technology systems. Had met my wife at that point. So we moved from Charlotte to Chicago, where she was from, and I had a chance to work for Goldman Sachs for two and a half years, completely different from sales.

[00:01:44] So I was sales support, and this is probably the first signal that I missed sales because initially I was scared when I lost my job. “Maybe this is the right fit. What am I doing?” But then when I was doing a non sales role, working with salespeople, I realized that I had all the fun and now I wasn’t experiencing that.

[00:02:01] And similar to when I spent time at a restaurant – back of house and front of house. The salesperson is front of house. The company does all they can to help the salesperson. When you’re back of house, you’re a cost center. So I didn’t really like that. And I liked the people I worked with, but not the jobs I was doing.

[00:02:16] So my neighbor is in a recruiting firm. So it went from a hundred percent security with a top global firm to a hundred percent commission with a boutique firm in the retirement services industry. And that’s, so I enjoyed that job at this point. I was getting my MBA. And then I was asking my professors, ’cause I said, “What do you guys do?

[00:02:33] That seems pretty fun. How do I do that? Seems like a lot less work than what I’m currently doing.” And they said, “Get a PhD.” And I said, “Good, because college is the only thing I appear to be consistently good at.” So I didn’t realize at the time just how naive I was, how hard it is to get into a doctoral business program, all that stuff.

[00:02:49] But once I make a decision, I tend to stick with it. So I stayed with the recruiting firm, but then the great recession hit. So I was one of the last sales of the office for the year in September, it’s a hundred percent commission. So that made 2009 an interesting year, but at that point I switched to a part-time job, finished the MBA, do everything to get into a PhD program.

[00:03:09] So then I’m getting my PhD in marketing, consumer behavior at Wisconsin, Milwaukee. And I say this specifically because I didn’t even know you can do what I’m about to say within the confines of a doctoral program and then post-doc as a professor. So today on the program, I’m liking consumer behavior.

[00:03:25] I go to a conference and it was one of those scatter, everybody scatters to go to a conference room. And I happened to pick a sales conference room and I sit down at the table, three people are presenting on topics and I, and it just, “Oh my gosh, this is everything.” So I couldn’t believe you could do this at that high level to examine and explore sales from a research end and then even teach people how to do sales and having been really good at sales and really bad at sales, the success and the pitfall of sales.

[00:03:51] I really enjoyed that. So I then made my mind up. I did finish the PhD in consumer behavior, but then from then on, I became the sales strategy professor. And then Marquette was looking for three faculty, two for a traditional research and one to start a sales program. And that’s pretty much my job. So I was, I started there in 2014 and we’ve been building the sales program ever since.

[00:04:11] And serendipity has a way. So I think that was just one of those, “Be in the right place at the right time.” and taking advantage of those moments is everything. 

[00:04:17] Libby Galatis: [00:04:17] Wow. There’s a lot to unpack there. You’ve got a a lot of moving parts within your career, but like you said, full circle, you have, you ended up in the spot that you’re in now. Tell us a bit about the state of the program at Marquette when you had first gotten there and the changes that you’ve seen since joining the team there. 

[00:04:34] Alex Milovic: [00:04:34] Absolutely. So when I started in fall of 2014, we did have a sales course or professional selling course that was offered sporadically. So the key there was to build on that foundation. So teaching the professional sales course every semester and promoting it, not just to people who might be majoring in marketing or minoring in marketing or interested in sales, but to the wider audience. Over the last couple of years, we’ve been able to expand the courses,

[00:04:57] so now we offer a, an advanced selling course, which allows students actually get real world experience. In the past we’ve had students work with the Milwaukee Bucks, the Marcus Center for Performing Arts, this semester we’ve had our students work with Be The Match, a nonprofit trying to add people to a Blood Donor Registry, as well as making high-school calls to admitted seniors who maybe haven’t made the final decision,

[00:05:17] so get them real relevant sales experience. The growth of these courses allowed us to hire an excellent faculty member by the name of Jess Oberly. So one of the leading researchers in the field of sales and an amazing teacher as well. She brought with with her, of course, in sales management, which is a semester long case project with a live customer.

[00:05:35] The last time she ran, it was with a company called Crop Chemical. So we have three courses. We also have the course, that’s a CRM course that we’re probably going to turn into a sales technology course. We’ve been able to add a sales major as a fall 2020. So a concentration, sorry, a major in marketing with a concentration in sales starting fall of 2021,

[00:05:56] we’ve added a sales minor. And then actually last week we’ve we received word feedback from from the president of the University’s office that we’re now going to be a recognized established sales center. And next steps over the summer is to apply for membership to the University Sales Center Alliance. 

[00:06:16] Libby Galatis: [00:06:16] Wow. 

[00:06:22] Alex Milovic: [00:06:22] What I love about what I do is I’m always practicing what I’m preaching, more so now than ever. And that’s something so with this getting the major and the minor, of course, there are sales things involved. Getting the center was huge, multiple steps, and I actually was going through my, my thought process, the meetings I was having, the deck we created, the presentation we were giving, and even how we handled the sales call with the Dean, then the provost with my sales students to show that not only am I teaching this, here’s what I’m doing here are my, my, my objections, obstacles, pitfalls, all those things.

[00:06:54] So they know that because it never ends. And that’s what I love about sales is, even for me, as I’m always getting better. 

[00:07:10] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:07:10] Yeah, I think what’s exciting is you’re still in a sales role. So I think a lot of times, students might  think that when you’re a professor, that’s what you do is you educate. But building this program, being ahead of the program, you are in a sales role every single day, whether it’s selling and recruiting students into the program but also your own university.

[00:07:30] And to taking it from minor all the way to a center, which is which is incredible. So I want to take it all the way back to that first job, out of college for you. I don’t want to harp on some bad memories here, but you said that when you you were at Black & Decker couple years, it looks like, and you, there wasn’t a lot of role clarity and it did not end maybe the way you envisioned it ending.

[00:07:56] I think a lot of times that can happen to students, that can happen to people when they get in their first sales role. And it didn’t deter you away from sales for your whole career now to the point where you’re selling it. But let’s talk about what happened there, like how did it start versus how did it ended?

[00:08:11] What lessons did you learn in that, that you took with you the rest of your career? 

[00:08:15] Alex Milovic: [00:08:15] Absolutely. And I actually just have nothing but, though I joke about it and actually really enjoy it. I love my time at Black & Decker. I loved the opportunity post-grad and this can be something that I speak to companies about. So we do have a lot of corporate partners and they’re interested in hiring our students.

[00:08:28] And when they say, “How do we best train a new hire?” is what Black & Decker did. And actually a lot of the leadership team, currently on Milwaukee tool, which it was Black & Decker’s largest competitor, they came from Black & Decker . So I worked with them in the year 2000, we were all entry-level sales reps and now a number of them, I can point high on the hierarchy and worked with him her, him, and we actually placed plenty of people there.

[00:08:49] So then we talk about never burn bridges because you never know when you’re going to meet them again. But what I would say is the first couple of jobs, I was able to be promoted three times in three years. And it was because we had a clear understanding of what my goals were. I was selling a top quality brand,

[00:09:02] they gave excellent training throughout, both initially and ongoing, on the product as well as the sales process, tons of opportunity to work with other people so you can figure out what you wanted to do next. So I really enjoyed that. That third job, though, was weird. It was the sales textbooks would describe it as a missionary salesperson because

[00:09:18] I was not directly involved with the sale. I was really just promoting it. You would still buy from your existing channel. There’ll be no real way to capture that. And in hindsight now seeing, seeing how would I approach that as a manager, that role ended up going away because it was a confusing role.

[00:09:33] So it turned into, later on, more of a training and development role for new hires or more the team captain, as well as more clearly defined tangible goals. So that’s what it was after I was gone, but when it wasn’t during, so that’s what I talked about. If you look at the sales research role clarity, and role ambiguity, those are the two main reasons somebody would quit a sales job.

[00:09:53] “I don’t know what I’m doing. I don’t know what I’m incentivized on. I’m hitting my head against the wall and actually I’ll expand a little bit more.” I was thinking about this before the call I bring this up. Beyond the professional, that first selling class, I bring it up in every other SaaS class that you want to teach at the grad level is the pit of despair.

[00:10:09] Taken from there’s a book called ‘Leadership and the one minute manager’ where the author talks about of the four quadrants of how to manage an employee. And so I take it, you flip it upside down and you have the sales reps view, which is so phase one is “I’m excited. I have no idea what I’m doing, but I can’t wait to get started.”

[00:10:25] And then somewhere between an hour or two and six months, you’ll end up in the pit of despair, which is, “You know what I know? I know nothing. I hate everything. I made a horrible decision. I need to get out of this.” And then the idea there as a manager, “How do I get you from the second quadrant to the third, which is I have good days and bad days, if you’re managing them, what do you think we should do?

[00:10:44] How would you accomplish this? Then we’re finally goals and set.” And then the fourth phase is “Give me the number, get out of my way.” So we really spent a lot of time in that advanced sales class actually, in the pit of despair, because everybody hits on in a sales job and tying back to why we educate sales and why a company can benefit from this,

[00:11:01] is we teach the students how hard sales is, how challenging it can be at the start and perseverance, focus on the things you can control certainly the numbers, the measureables early on, and then it will have long-term success. So we really prep them for that pit of despair moment because what happens is without a sales program, a lot of students will take that first job in sales and they’ll realize, “I don’t know anything.

[00:11:24] I’m scared, I’m confused”, and they’ll get their resume together and they’ll leave. And now us as more experienced sales leaders and educators and say, “No, no stick with it. This is totally fine. Totally normal. What you’re experiencing is what everybody experienced.” And then work them through the process. 

[00:11:37] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:11:37] Yeah, I think what’s great is you’re normalizing this kind of like uncertain freak out pit of despair moment that ultimately everybody goes through. And I love that book, The Women in Management, we also have all of our new STRs read The Dip because at some point it’s inevitable to go through it, the dip. So what’s amazing is you’re getting people ready to maybe experience it before they graduate and get into that job, or if they don’t experience it, at least they know what’s coming so they can be prepared for it and work themselves through it. So aside from normalizing it and letting them know that, “Hey, this is normal.

[00:12:15] This is something you’re going through.” and of course, picking a good manager and a good team to get you through it, how else are you prepping students for what ultimately will happen? What are some of the things your center’s doing to make sure that when it inevitably happens, they can successfully get through it?

[00:12:32] Alex Milovic: [00:12:32] So we spent a lot of time focusing on everything right up until that, that official sales call. So a lot of time in research, understanding you, the competitors, the product line, the customer, as well as prospecting. So we spend a lot of time also on seemingly the simple, once you see it prospecting techniques to build the plan here is early on,

[00:12:55] I want to reward activity. So thinking of all the successful firms say “You have no, when you get on a call, we’ll figure it out. But let’s start making these calls, so you’re comfortable with talking to strangers, comfortable getting them from who are you, to maybe I’ll meet again.” We also talk about what’s the goal of that call

[00:13:11] because they only talk about the sales stereotypes. They use car stereotype or you it’s a one-shot close. I have to get you from hello to close in the next 20 minutes, which is not, certainly not a lot of, not a lot of any of the employers I can work, I think of working with have that sale, usually, it’s a longer sales cycle.

[00:13:27] So the goal of the first call is a meeting. The goal of the second meeting is a meeting with somebody else and more information. So we really walk them through what the process will look like. And the more time you spent initially in prospect and research, and also developing a good, strong list of questions, it means that when you get into that first sales call, you can succeed.

[00:13:45] Although we also make sure what’s the right amount of research, we want to make sure we don’t have analysis paralysis. So at some point, you do just have to make that call. So making them aware of that, but the more work they come in, the better the outcome. And then actually, I would say one thing I’ve really leaned on probably in the last two years of show is the power of rapport.

[00:14:00] And really bringing that into all sales classes. Also as something you can train outside of the classroom. So starting tomorrow, next time you engage with a sort of red restaurant, cashier or somebody just saying hi and chat them up. Just ask about their day. Certain CRM start getting into the flow of.

[00:14:15] I’m getting from stranger to acquaint, acquaintance. And we spend more time on that because of what I’ve found, at least personally is the better you are rapport, you can see an average or below average rep through the rest of the call, but because they already have this feeling of, “I liked this person. I trust this person.

[00:14:31] They seem like an engaging person.” then they’re more likely to stick with, even if you’re young. Your elevator pitches and strong on your way through the objections and the closes a little weak. 

[00:14:43]Kristen Wisdorf: [00:14:43] You’re preaching to the choir because we are a prospecting business. That’s we believe that’s, the first step in being a successful salesperson, whether you’re in AE with 20 years of experience or you have two months of experience, you have to know how to go out and find your own business.

[00:14:57] And I think even thinking about myself, 10 plus years ago in my sales classes I think it’s easy to forget the prospecting. And sometimes programs, or at least in the past, they used to forget that part. It was all about here’s how you handle this in-person pitch or presentation. And that’s what a lot of the curriculum was about, was like, several years ago, and it’s good that you and other professors are teaching students every part of the process, right?

[00:15:24] It’s not, you can’t just expect to have that in-person pitch meeting or that, that closed meeting. You have to do the work to get to it. And so it’s great that you’re bringing that into your curriculum with your students. 

[00:15:35] Alex Milovic: [00:15:35] No, it’s a good point. So when we get to that meeting, that’s awesome. That’s your chance to shine. How did you get to that meeting? That’s the most important part. 

[00:15:44] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:15:44] Absolutely. And that’s skills that will serve these sales early salespeople for the rest of their career. Absolutely. Thinking back to, your first job in sales, that outside sales job, and then when you transitioned to a non sales job, other than recognizing “Wow, I miss that sales environment, that sales role.”

[00:16:06] Is there anything that you took with you into that non sales job that helped you have perspective or do better at it? Or did it just really shine a light on what you were missing and wanted to get back to?

[00:16:17] Alex Milovic: [00:16:17] Yes. So the thing, so I was able to take some skills and this is really where the idea of you’re always selling, even if you’re not selling to a customer. So really it was more about selling internally, and then I ended up, I became a project manager and I had to develop a system that was going to be used by the sales team,

[00:16:33] and I was able to use my sales skills there because I just sell it internally across numerous channels. I’ll bring up stories to my students about the time when the managing director asked the easiest question, like leaders of a dump of a company, always ask the easiest question that makes you instantly just want to cry.

[00:16:48] “Why are we even doing this?” And so the start of that call was I think we just lost our jobs. And then we had the kind of big pitch meeting with everybody in the room to get sign off, and I didn’t get past the title slide before the question just came at me. So I bring that up to students saying you have a plan and then good luck.

[00:17:05] So selling internally  was huge. I like the interpersonal communication and the jump there was also that I know there’s a book out there called Sales Leads First, and literally that’s true too. And as somebody who does like a good meal they’d let the IT folks come in after, you’re just left with the soggy leftover rash,

[00:17:21] “Please take care of me a bit more.” I miss this, I miss mattering. And that’s actually another thing. So even when I was in my first college at Towson University, I was a swimmer. And so I felt that I had I represented the school and I think that really, when times were tough being practice or studying, I always felt that I was part of the brand.

[00:17:37] When I was in a sales role, I felt like I was representing the brand. When I was back at house, I didn’t feel that as much because everybody around me was also in the same boat. 

[00:17:49] Libby Galatis: [00:17:49] You just bring such a great perspective because you’re speaking from your own prior experience in the industry, in the field. And you’re also bringing in a wealth of knowledge that you’ve just developed in your time in education. The amount of degrees that you have, it’s unbelievable. I think students, at least in my experience, recruiting students, a lot of them stress about what they feel they need to know and understand,

[00:18:10] and be prepared for in that first role. And a lot of it has to do with industry and products and size of company. There’s just so many factors that are involved. I would argue that there are certain things that should be secondary as far as importance go and what they should be looking to receive out of that first opportunity.

[00:18:26] What do you think is most important for students to know or understand about their first job when they transition after completing their senior year and moving into that first step? 

[00:18:37] Alex Milovic: [00:18:37] Excellent. So a couple of thoughts there. One is that it might, it probably won’t be your last job and you don’t want to say, or your last company, you don’t want to, you don’t want to say that all these roads will end in divorce, so get comfortable. But just the idea that whatever your plan is, be willing to change it, but be smart and deliberate as much as you can.

[00:18:55] So write these plans in pencil. But have your own personal one, three, and five-year plan that they or may not include the company and that’s okay. And I, and something also, I would say is you have to be selfish. And this is one where we picked business, and you hear the lines, “If you want a friend get a dog you’re in business.”

[00:19:10] Be friendly, but focus on you. If you’re not the most important person in your life, then find a new life. And so what I mean by that is ideally you have a good manager who can train you and lead you and help you get promoted. But how few and far between are those managers? Most managers are happy because you don’t start fire drills every five minutes.

[00:19:26] And also identify what is the next job. If it’s within the company, great. Who do I need to meet with and speak with so that they’re fighting on my behalf, in meetings, I’m not a part of. So always be selling yourself, even if you’re not in a, in an outside exterior facing sales role, get to know a lot of people and then have an answer to the question of “What do you want to do next?”

[00:19:45] And then in your current job, thinking about, okay, “What are the skills that I need to know to Matt to do this job?” But I would say maybe from the forest, from the trees, “How was our company doing overall?” What are some things, if it’s earnings calls, handle us reports, viewing a, viewing something with them, a public display of new products.

[00:19:59] So you’re just well versed in the company overall, because another benefit is what lane you started in the company is probably not the lane you’ll finish in and you’ll probably bounce around. There’s no such thing as a lateral move. You’re always going to learn new things and new skills, doing different jobs.

[00:20:12] So don’t be afraid of opportunity. And then I guess the biggest one is imposter syndrome. For you start that first day of your job, you’re going to, you’re going to wonder “Why did they pick me? Whoever came in second, right?” So they chose you for a reason and they chose you because you have an inherent skills and a desire to be better.

[00:20:29] We’ll train the rest. That’s okay. 

[00:20:31] Libby Galatis: [00:20:31] It’s such a, it’s a very stressful time for a lot of students to, to think about diving headfirst into the unknown. And trying to prepare them as much as possible for those challenges, we’ve been talking about a lot today. I’m curious in your sales career what would you say was the biggest challenge that you faced in that space?

[00:20:47] What was the biggest challenge that you personally had to overcome and what did you learn from that experience?

[00:20:52] Alex Milovic: [00:20:52] The voice in my head, which is still constant, right? It’s just the idea of, so thinking with Black & Decker wasn’t as bad, the first job you were going to job sites. So that was “How do I add value to the job site?” Than  it was in the Home Depot chain, which is awesome because we’re a top selling tool and a top selling store.

[00:21:06] But then the third job you’re back on the job site, “What do I do?” But I really relate it more to my time as a recruiter. So starting from scratch, three days of training and I started with two other people and I got to start with the letter R and the book can be the equivalent phone book.

[00:21:23] So I guess the challenge there is just do it. Don’t be afraid to use another, just dive in the water. It’s always cold. It’ll get warmer once you’re in it. So that’s always thinking about, ’cause I’m not a morning person. We always had 6:00 AM practices and that’s something even still ’cause I take on a number of other being freelance or gig type jobs.

[00:21:44] There’s that voice is still there saying, “Oh yeah, this is something that’s not normal or something you haven’t experienced and be okay with that.” And the more you practice and try these new things the than the easier, than the voice is more positive. 

[00:21:59] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:21:59] So you talked briefly about having that imposter syndrome and be aware of it. And then just now you said, just jump in the water, right? Because that voice is always going to be there. When you jumped into your recruiting role, you went from a hundred percent security to a hundred percent commission. What gave you the courage to do that?

[00:22:21] Why did you know like that was going to work out for you? How did you beat that voice in your head? 

[00:22:26] Alex Milovic: [00:22:26] There was a lack of, there was no further backup plan. And that’s something you’ll hear a lot with entrepreneurs is, “I want to start my own business, but I’ll stick with this job now and I’ll start it on the side.” And you’ll hear plenty of successful entrepreneurs say “No, just start the business because if you have something easier to do, you’ll do the easier thing.”

[00:22:44] I’m actually joking about this, as we clean the house, if you want me to clean the house top to bottom, make me write a dissertation, ’cause I’ll much rather clean the house. So that was my only option at the time. And so I had to make it succeed and had to make it work. And it was a challenge and an opportunity and that I always go back to that recruiting job and continue to thank thank the owner that got me into the company because that’s the job I’m still doing every day.

[00:23:07] I’m still recruiting. And actually I bring up to, I bring up to my students when we talk about another important thing to focus on, early on with this whole sales process, not just how to overcome an objection is “What is your value proposition?” So I’m always repeating when we’re going into any sales pitch.

[00:23:22] “Why is my life better off with whatever it is you’re proposing?” So with recruiting, I thought initially I was bothering everybody that they didn’t want to take my call. So every phone call I’m making is making them mad. So that was my initial thoughts. So you can imagine how many bad phone calls I had. Once I started getting success,

[00:23:38] people were excited to meet with me, people called me out of the blue. They were, “I want a new job. I just lost my job. I’m fishing for opportunities. I have a friend here.” Then I realized I changed my perspective from “I’m bothering everybody, so I’m going to be your agent. Think of me as your agent, right?

[00:23:53] I’m your in case of emergency break glass, I want to set up a meeting just so you know, I exist. So in case something happens, we can act on it immediately.” And then I wanted to talk to everybody because everybody could use an agent. And so that’s how we think about it, how do we get a compelling value proposition,

[00:24:07] so you’re excited to make that call. You’re excited to talk to that person.

[00:24:11] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:24:11] So I’m sure your students love sitting in your classes, hearing your real life experience that you can walk through. I know when I was a student, that was what I wanted out of my sales professors. And what I loved about them is that they had actually done it and they have really good experience. How do you take your experiences as a recruiter or an outside sales or even as an analyst and I guess

[00:24:34] fuel your students in a totally different time, right? Like it’s not, it might be a pandemic, but it’s not the great recession. Like things are different, but how do you take what you do have experience with, and I guess prepare that? 

[00:24:47]Alex Milovic: [00:24:47] Think a lot of it has to do with my failures and really promoting that and being okay with that and telling them that it’s just, when you see now looks like a very well thought out plan that led me to being in front of you right now. But I’ll share, brutal honesty, I’ll share with them when times are tough.

[00:25:03] I was, so when I had an internship in college, the first time I was selling advertising door to door on a bike, and I remember eating three hot dogs for a dollar and it didn’t go well. And I was just sitting there wondering “This, it’s gotta get better.” In fact, I actually had a restaurant hire me because I was taking too much advantage of their happy hour specials of the food.

[00:25:22] I wouldn’t know, just one dollar and all the food I could eat and keep the steaks coming, please. Oh, so he said, “How would you like a job?” So telling them about that process and that there are many chapters in your life and that’s okay, I think that gives them a sigh of relief that as long as you’re positive and trust and believe in yourself, you’ll see your way through this.

[00:25:40] But also when ties back to the title of the podcast is never stop hustling. No, I keep going back to you are the most important person in your life. How do we make sure that’s the case? If it’s your current opportunity, if it’s the next opportunity, say yes to more things, do more things.

[00:25:53] You never know when a chance meeting is going to end up in a future job or a future opportunity. So do those things, get out of your comfort zone. I also joke to  students and their parents when I’m recruiting them. And what’s my biggest regret in college is I wish I would have taken fewer naps, plenty of time now.

[00:26:06] So just do more stuff. Life doesn’t happen unless you do stuff. 

[00:26:11] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:26:11] Yeah, that’s awesome. I also sold advertising door to door so I can relate, although I didn’t eat three hot dogs a day. 

[00:26:18] Alex Milovic: [00:26:18] A good idea. No, none of it. And then some, somebody stole the bike. So hear that. Yeah. Made it. 

[00:26:23] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:26:23] But that’s very interesting. I love this idea and what you’re talking to your students about, “Just do it, just put yourself out there and do it”, even when you went back to teaching them how to build rapport and how important rapport is, just start practicing how to build rapport in your day to day like that’s

[00:26:37] how you get good at something is by building that muscle and doing it when it doesn’t feel like work, when it feels like it’s just part of your day to day, and then it helps you at work. So that’s great, very real life experience and examples that they can take with them. So what does the future look like for the sales program?

[00:26:56] You are, you’re going to be a center. That’s very exciting. What is the sales program, sales classes, the curriculum at Marquette looked like over the next couple of years?

[00:27:06] Alex Milovic: [00:27:06] Sure. So one thing we have while we have the existing classes, sales is almost like a digital or social media class where you have to change it relatively frequently. So that’s what one is. It’s always going to be evolving that U K. So every semester, certainly with the advanced selling class I have to rework that every semester.

[00:27:20] How do we make sure to take advantage of what’s going on now and add that to the training? So the classes, even though the titles might be similar, the core of the course will spill-, we’ll go through changes to make sure we’re teaching current information for the students because we want to make sure that we’re not,

[00:27:34] yeah, telling them yesterday’s information as they go out on the job market. We’re looking to expand over time as we have more students with the major and the minor adding additional faculty, be they full-time or part-time. Finding additional corporate partners, so we have a couple of companies that were on board right away that, that have worked with us over the last five years. So keep them happy, find additional people understand for them that we can act as their minor leagues, their bench. So how do we do that? Also, another thing we’re looking at is how can we increase recruitment to Marquette with students that wouldn’t consider Marquette except for the sales program.

[00:28:07] So that’s, so how do we expand the pie? So once a student commits to Marquette, that’s fantastic. And if we get them into marketing and sales and out of another major, that’s great, moving chairs, it’s the same room, so we’re just moving from one spot to the other, but at the same number, that number doesn’t change.

[00:28:21] So how can we actively recruit high school students? So we’re looking at maybe things like, PECA or any other sales organization, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, whatever, it might be. Anything where just, it says to get in their heads early on, that you can major in this, and we have a lot of opportunities after graduation.

[00:28:38] The other piece of this is you don’t stop learning at 22, and this is not unique to Marquette, this is every university is facing this challenge now, is that you have thousands of  university  chasing the same group of 16 to 18 year olds. So “How do we expand the pie? What do we do from 22 plus?” So is that through master, through MBA curriculum or executive programs,

[00:29:01] badges, mini courses, continual learning that’s a, that’s an opportunity and a challenge that a lot of schools face? On Marquette, we have something called bridge to business where we’re training engineers. That’s another area we’re looking at is so something that we’re looking to add relatively soon. It’s hard to add sales classes to the existing pretty full engineered curriculum, but is there a way we can add some sort of 

[00:29:23] workshop component to that, that our engineering students who have a sales bent,

[00:29:28] and find opportunities 

[00:29:29] because sales engineering is another huge growth area. So it was, and also, consistently 

[00:29:32] talking with our advisory board, with our top companies, 

[00:29:36] “What are the skills we’re training and where are your needs and how can we prepare our students to fill your needs?” 

[00:29:44] Libby Galatis: [00:29:44] I it’s amazing how much the program itself has grown. I think that a lot of universities experienced the uphill battle of, first of all, expanding the curriculum, but making it so that 

[00:29:55] you can have that sales concentration let alone, there are very few universities that offer the sales as a major professional sales as a major. And of course, we’re on this podcast, we all know the importance of sales. But a lot of students that I speak with are coming from schools where they didn’t get exposure in those sales classes, where they weren’t mandatory and they’re marketing grads and they want to pursue a career in marketing and that’s where they ideally want to pursue and go. I’m curious, what advice you would share for the marketing majors that are resistant to sales?

[00:30:23] Those that are turning their noses up at it, and just any advice that you would share to those individuals about opening their mind to sales as a pathway for them. 

[00:30:32] Alex Milovic: [00:30:32] Yes. And that’s very common of course. And that’s something, that’s the reason we have sales programs is the stuff we’re going to teach you in a traditional marketing curriculum, you’re not going to use for a decade, unless you’re an entrepreneur. Like “Strategy, what strategy? Sit in your cube, do the work.”

[00:30:46] That’s your strategy. So all of this is important and we joke when somebody either finds that marketing only job or wants that marketing only job. That’s like excellent. We found the unicorns. Find more unicorns. It’s very hard. So they do exist. Sales is a great way in because a lot of companies will have you start in sales because it’s you’ll learn the company,

[00:31:05] you’ll learn the product, you learn the customer and the competitors, and then you’ll work your way into marketing role. So plenty of companies offer that way. So use sales as a springboard to your marketing career. That’s probably the biggest one. And as we’ve said through out  the podcast, you’re always selling yourself internally and externally.

[00:31:23] So how better to get yourself promoted your ideas heard and ultimately affect marketing strategy of an organization and to have a turn in sales where you really can hone those skills. That’s what I would say to that. And actually we’re facing this with marketing and sales. If you’re doing marketing and it’s not sales, we really have to throw in a lot more technology now than we did maybe even 10 years ago.

[00:31:44] So we can train that, but it’s that whole side is changing as well. It’s not just about overall corporate strategy marketing. So I think our whole field is undergoing a revision. I’m fortunate that Mark Kent saw this opportunity, thanks to those founding corporate partners who, a year before, I even know that this was an opportunity, they were talking to the Dean of the college of business saying, “Where’s your sales program?”

[00:32:05] And the Dean said, “We don’t have one. We were focusing on something else. He said “You need one.” And this is also something that he said only, “Now it’s maybe a hundred, hundred and fifty schools total that have this.” It started out really with Midwestern schools, largely in the Mac conference because they saw a niche and opportunity that when that was unfair, uncharted waters and then their students and graduates have really succeeded,

[00:32:27] and now the rest of these universities are seeing the successful on a replicated. So I think it’s going to, it’s only going to expand. But that is something you want to talk to a marketing student early on is “I love the discipline of marketing and consumer behavior and branding and strategy. Here’s the path to get there.

[00:32:44] Know that sales is probably your best path to get there.”

[00:32:48] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:32:48] And it’s interesting, ’cause you mentioned earlier, when you were a swimmer at your university, and when you transitioned out of sales that you miss mattering and in sales, you matter, and you felt like you were representing a brand. What better way to prepare for a long career in marketing than literally representing the brand?

[00:33:06] So I agree. I think it is not only the, where you’ll probably have to start as a marketing major, and I can say that ’cause I was one myself. But it’s, it really does prepare you and set yourself 

[00:33:16] up for not just marketing as a career, but a lot of careers with the foundation of sales. So that’s great. 

[00:33:22] Alex Milovic: [00:33:22] Absolutely. And also the power of a sales role and as is the you matter more and there’s 

[00:33:27] excellent financial benefits. And if you’re interested 

[00:33:30] in moving up within a company, then sales is an excellent way to do this. It’s instead of getting promoted every five years, it can be every two years. 

[00:33:39] Libby Galatis: [00:33:39] I think that there’s a common theme with most of those that we’ve had on the podcast. 

[00:33:44]

[00:33:44] When you’re thinking about your career, there’s an element of planning that has to be involved in intention, but also a fluidity that has to be there as well. You have to be open to exploring other avenues and taking different paths and maybe have an end goal in mind, but the pathway to get there

[00:33:58] is going to be different.  It’s going to change and adjust over time. You had mentioned transitioning out of sales, and we’ve mentioned it a few times, then missing sales and then going to the conference, and ultimately becoming a sales educator. And I’m curious why you decided to become an educator when you know how wonderful, longterm sales career could be and how lucrative it can be, why make the switch towards education? 

[00:34:20] Alex Milovic: [00:34:20] Helping others. That’s probably the main one. So one the security of a university job, although have you looked out the window lately? So that was the initial, perhaps I’m the I’m the reason anyway but helping others. So I really, I, what gets me going is when I see my students who are good students and they turn into great students, or I know that they’re going to be excellent,

[00:34:39] and then they have that light bulb moment. So that’s just, I love that. And also I joke, so I am an extroverted introvert, so I can talk to nobody for months on end and be perfectly happy with myself. But I was also a performer when I played piano for many years. And so I also like being on stage. So being a professor hits that takes every single box in a weird way about, ’cause there’s a lot of you’re an independent contractor, right?

[00:35:03] So it was so the university allows professors to build the course, how they see fit as long as they had a couple of parameters. You’re a show person, I joked, one of my colleagues keeps bringing this up every semester, because one semester I had to teach in the auditorium onstage. He said, “Isn’t that,

[00:35:16] oh my gosh, aren’t you nervous?” I said, “I’m always on stage.” So getting used to that. So I love the flexibility of the job. There’s so many things I like, I will say though, that I do sales,consulting, I have sold other products on the side and I always bring that into the classroom, whether it be last year when I I worked for the US Census, which I may knock on doors again, or I’ve done 

[00:35:34] Uber and Lyft and Door Dash, just to see that you want talking about building rapport, 

[00:35:38] grab somebody in an Uber and then even other sales opportunities.

[00:35:42] So I’m still dipping my toes in a lot of different avenues 

[00:35:44] because when you don’t want to be as the person who’s telling war 

[00:35:47] stories about how it was 20 years ago. 

[00:35:56] Libby Galatis: [00:35:56] So with all of that said, I you’ve made some amazing points and I’m learning so much 

[00:36:00] just talking to you today. I’m curious, what has been the most gratifying part of 

[00:36:04] your career so far? And have you peaked? 

[00:36:08] Alex Milovic: [00:36:08] Oh, my gosh. I love that because I hope not. That’s something we have to think tomorrow’s going to be better than today or else what’s the point? So I guess the gratifying point is that I’m able to teach in a place like Marquette. And I absolutely love it there. I never thought I’d have a chance there on top national university.

[00:36:24] When they say, “What is it like working there?” I say “Goofy works, which is good, ’cause otherwise I have no chance.” I guess that I’m s-, I still, relatively speaking, I’m not that morning person jump out of bed in the morning. So that’s probably, it is I get excited the night before the first day of class,

[00:36:37] ’cause I got a chance to meet and interact with a hundred or a hundred plus new students and try to do my best to have an effect on their lives and really to make them the best versions of themselves. So that’s what drives me everyday at Marquette. I just love helping the students and I’m glad that the faculty and staff and leadership understand that and allow that to happen.

[00:36:54] And then in terms of  have I peaked? “No, I’m always doing, I’m always trying to do new things.” Hopefully, I would like to stay at Marquette for the rest of my career, and I sincerely mean that, but there, there will be other opportunities that I’m looking at. And actually, now is that I just decided to pick up a completely new sport about a month ago.

[00:37:15] Having never ice skated in my life, I figured now would be a great time to be a hockey goalie. So I’ve, I’m doing a graduated learn to skate level one. I’ve got the skates, I’ve got a connection to buy all the gear. And next thing you know, just, don’t tell my department head that I’ll be a hundred mile an hour pucks going towards this guy’s head, but that’s what the mask is for. So I’m always trying something new,

[00:37:32] and plus once I have children, I can live vicariously through them.

[00:37:37] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:37:37] That’s great. Okay. We got a couple of quick, fast questions for you. What is your super power? What do you think you’re exceptional at? 

[00:37:48] Alex Milovic: [00:37:48] Kissing butt, but that’s probably the one is that people tend to like the out of the gate, which is something that, that I’ve seen. So maybe high, emotional intelligence. 

[00:38:02] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:38:02] All right. Next question. If you could recommend, if someone couldn’t take a sales class or courses, if you could re recommend one book for a future career in sales, what would it be? 

[00:38:14] Alex Milovic: [00:38:14] Probably The Tao of Pooh, the Tao of Winnie the Pooh. So immense, it’s an Eastern philosophy book. 

[00:38:20] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:38:20] Right. That’s a good one. I’ve never heard that one before. 

[00:38:24] Alex Milovic: [00:38:24] It’s weird. I’ve thought about this. This is always my favorite book to recommend the crowd. Always, even though it’s about ancient Taoism and the idea of Taoism and the idea that it’s steady state, be willing to listen to signals. “Why are you fighting against the current?” Which is something you generally don’t want to teach in a business goal is just go with the flow, status quo, but that’s not really what that means.

[00:38:43] What that means is “Don’t crowd your mind with thoughts that are not helpful.” Because if you’re crowding your mind with those thoughts you’re not using your intuition, which will lead to opportunities and outcomes, and 

[00:38:54] that’s something even receiving. So receiving the email to come to this podcast, 

[00:39:00] I don’t have time for something like this.

[00:39:02] No. But then, but it’s such, it’s so fruitful, so awesome. I’m 

[00:39:06] so excited I’m doing this. 

[00:39:07] And it’s when the world puts something in front of you, that in front of you, there’s probably a reason, so take advantage of that reason. That’s why I recommend that book. It’s an easy read. 

[00:39:16] Libby Galatis: [00:39:16] If you could put a billboard anywhere in the 

[00:39:20] world,

[00:39:20] where would you put it and what would it say? 

[00:39:25] Alex Milovic: [00:39:25] Oh, how about this? Put it on the moon so everybody could see it. And just those kinds of stealing a little bit from John Green, which is “Don’t forget to be awesome. So you’re better than you think. There’s no such thing as a perfect person. You’re awesome.”

[00:39:38] Kristen Wisdorf: [00:39:38] I love it. That’s great. We appreciate you joining us this afternoon. Thank you so much. You have an awesome experience in history and you’re still doing really awesome things. So good luck with the ice skating and the hockey, and your students are very lucky and we appreciate you joining us. To all the hustlers out there,

[00:39:57] be sure to subscribe and rate and review, and we’ll see you next time. 

[00:40:02] Alex Milovic: [00:40:02] Thank you very much for the opportunity. Happy to come out anytime. Thank you.